Running Full Width F250 Axles on XJ?

[DaveHillier]

I have a Dana HP44 Front and a Dana 60 rear from a 1977-79 F250. I'm planning on putting them under my XJ this spring. I don't wanna have to norrow the axles though. Can I get rims to make my rig only 2 or 3 inchs wider with the big 8 bolt hubs? I may not use these rear ends if I need to norrow them. Also is there anything else I should know about other good axles that I wouldn't have to norrow? Thanks for the help!

1989 XJ 6 1/2" Rusty's Short Arm Kit, 33x12.50x15 Mud Brutes, aw4, np231, RE SYE, Skyjacker drop pitman arm

[seanR]

Waggy 44s are the same width,
Good luck finding the rims you want,
They are out there but hard to find.

Those axles are a bit overkill, just my opinion.

[Gil BullyKatz]

if ya really want to keep it as narrow as possible do a search here and Pirate for hummer rims...

oh yeah... you're gonna have fun with tire combos/brake calipers/clearance/etc.

been done... Alot

you gotta have decent fab skills or a good chunk of change (or friends with both)

[JLane99XJ]

i think thats the same setup as the XJ on the fullsize xj gear site not sure but that guy could probly give you some advice.

i think the site is www.fullsizexjgear.com

good luck with that..

nope my bad its on d-60s front & rear

http://www.fullsizexjgear.com/Projects/images/P2020018.jpg

[DaveHillier]

Well I'm not completely set on putting a 60 in the rear. I just have two of these axle right now. I'm getting Bushwacker cutouts soon but that wouldn't make up the different. I want to stay with 15" rims right now. I know there there is a 1977 f100 front axle and a ford 9" rear out of the same truck. Would they be a better swap for me?

[Beezil]

there is no reason to narrow that axle if you are also in the market for new rims.

Look for 17" rims with a numerically large backspace....

I run 5" backspace, which gives me an OUTSIDE trackwidth of around 79"-78" instead of 86 or more like you see on a lot of rigs running fullsize.

http://www.quartersawn.net/images/35.jpg

[DaveHillier]

So there is not any 15" rim that would tuck in because of the brakes and tierods? I really don't wanna have to spend the big bucks on 17" rims and tires. What about a 78 f1500 hp 44 and ford 9". Could I get rims for them to tuck in to keep close to stock width?

[paul_xj04]

mine are 65" from drum to drum. its not that wide with stock rims on it. half of a 36" TSL sticks out

[xjcrawlr]

Use a set of stock stupid duty steel wheels, 17 x 8, 5in backspacing. Or hit your local auto trader for someone getting rid of stock 8-lug wheels. You might even make friends with your local America's Tire/ Discount Tire and get some castoff's from him for cheap.

[CRASH]

Use a set of stock stupid duty steel wheels, 17 x 8, 5in backspacing. Or hit your local auto trader for someone getting rid of stock 8-lug wheels. You might even make friends with your local America's Tire/ Discount Tire and get some castoff's from him for cheap.

Incorrect bolt pattern.

CRASH

[skyjackerXJ]

Incorrect bolt pattern.

What is the incorrect bolt pattern?

The front axle from a '77-'79 F250 should be very close to 68" wms-wms.

[CRASH]

Ford Super Duty wheels are 8" on 170mm metric bolt pattern.

They do not fit any other 8 bolt (8 on 6.5") axle.

CRASH

[xjcrawlr]

Oops, my bad. Start hitting E-Bay!

[FarmerMatt]

there is no reason to narrow that axle if you are also in the market for new rims.


http://www.quartersawn.net/images/35.jpg
That's if you like using your hubs as curb feelers...

Matt

[skyjackerXJ]

Ford Super Duty wheels are 8" on 170mm metric bolt pattern.

They do not fit any other 8 bolt (8 on 6.5") axle.

When you say "Super Duty" does that include late '70s Fords, or is the "Super Duty" line of trucks more current? The reason I'm asking is because I have a '79 F250 Dana 44 front and a '77 Dodge Dana 60 rear. I was under the impression the they were both 8 on 6.5". Am I going to have a problem?

[DaveHillier]

I have read a bit about the HP44 from the F250 breaks passenger side axles alot. Whats up with that? I thought they were a very stong axle in stock form? Is the F150 HP44 and F250 HP44 Fronts the same stength just with different bolt patterns? Thanks for all the help.

[BrettM]

H2 wheels are real cheap on ebay, 17", and I deep backspacing, 5" I think. Oh yeah, 8 on 6.5, but I hear you have to mill out the center hole a little sometimes, no big deal.

[davidt]

Ford Super Duty wheels are 8" on 170mm metric bolt pattern.

They do not fit any other 8 bolt (8 on 6.5") axle.

CRASH

Crash, you are truly the king of furd axles, we're not worthy...

[XJ_ranger]

That's if you like using your hubs as curb feelers...

Matt

i dont think that beez has tires small enough to hit the curb...


Crash, you are truly the king of furd axles, we're not worthy...

Davidt you are the king of brown-nosing, you are not worthy...

Back on topic:

If you have the axle's laying around - then pop them in. anything is stronger than a d35...
"pop" is of course an oversimplification...
Personaly i would stay way from the d60 - i have no need to plow my local rockgardens with my diff housing...

If however you are looking to swap any axle and are willing to puchase them - look into these:
Toy 8" (Rear from a tacoma)
Ford 9"
d44 front from a "wide track" waggy - make sure it is driver diff though

If you are set on your alxes buy not sure of going full width -
a *common* mod is to shorten the d44 to waggy axle size and use waggy axles - that has been run though a few times here and on pirate.

just some things to think about
-Ranger

[BrettM]

HP d44 front from a "wide track" waggy


HP?

[XJ_ranger]

HP?

true dat - got a little ahead of myself

[jlake1]

Here is my XJ with H2 rims (like BrettM said) on a front 60, which is the same width as your HP44 out of a F250. Rear is a 14b...roughly the same as your 60.
It's about the same track with as my buddy's Bronco 44 with 15" rims and standard backspacing. Also, the rims are flush with my drive slugs. Hubs would definately stick out.

Jay

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/735076/DSC00202.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/735076/DSC00205.JPG
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-5/735076/DSC00206.JPG

[offroadman83]

That is an absolute beast jlake!!! More pictures and specs please. ---------------Kyle

[ECU88XJ]

Ford Super Duty wheels are 8" on 170mm metric bolt pattern.

They do not fit any other 8 bolt (8 on 6.5") axle.

CRASH


I was told by a diesel guy that the earlier super duty's (pre 99?) were the 8 on 6.5. is that correct?

[CRASH]

I was told by a diesel guy that the earlier super duty's (pre 99?) were the 8 on 6.5. is that correct?

Pre-99's are not SuperDuty's, in the parlance of our times. The new body style after 99 is what is refered to as a Super Duty. It has a different rear axle 10.5 Sterling as opposed to a 10.25 Sterling, the F-250's got a Dana 50 solid front vs. a Dana 50 TTB, and the funky bolt pattern that came with them.

The only pre-99 "Super Duty" was the F-450 chassis cab. It only came single cab, 2 wd, dually.

CRASH

[DaveHillier]

OK, what i'm thinking of doing is getting a front end front a 77 f150 dana 44hp. I am going to run radius arms instead of using my Rusty's short arms. Will this ride better than the short arms? I'm wondering how the flex would be. I would like to know where I can get long radius arms.

Thanks

[CartsXJ]

The only pre-99 "Super Duty" was the F-450 chassis cab. It only came single cab, 2 wd, dually.

CRASH

Actually you could get the pre-99 F-450 in 4wd. My neighbor has one, its got a huge Dana 70 front with a 10 lug bolt pattern. Might have been a conversion, but I know they were made.

[Lucas]

Which fullsize trucks have rear 44? (going to the junkyard tomorrow)

[Big Red]

Which fullsize trucks have rear 44? (going to the junkyard tomorrow)

Jeep Wagonner/Cherokee, Scout. Not many more I can think of being a full size vehicle. Most went with a bigger rear axle like a dana 60, ford 9", 14 bolt etc.

[jlake1]

That is an absolute beast jlake!!! More pictures and specs please. ---------------Kyle

Don't really want to hijack the thread, but the quick specs are:
90 XJ 2-door (duh)
93 5.0 out of Mustang
C6 with B&M shift kit and Stargate shifter
Ford NP203 range box
Dana 300 with 32spline rear output and custom flip kit (not done yet)
High-Angle driveline "1-ton" driveshafts with 1410 joints at all ends, two piece front driveshaft and rear 1350 CV.
Front HPD60 with 5.13's, Detroit, 35spline outers, and Warn drive flanges
Rear 14B ff with 5.13's, disc brakes, and Lincoln locked.
Steering is full hydro with double ended ram, High-flow 1400 TC series pump, and high-steer arms.
Suspension is rancho 44044 leaves up front SOA mounted about where the stock LCA's were. Rear are MJ leaves mounted under the "frame". Wheelbase is about 110.5" Of the increase, about 8" is in the rear.
To accomodate the rear axle move, the gas tank has been moved up flush with the bottom of the "rails" and encased in a 3/16" box. Also, the rear has been cut like a competition cut and new fenders made. On the inside, there is a top to the gas tank "safe" and a new floor made out of 14g. With the new floor welded to the fenders and the rear gate opening and the fuel safe, and the fuel safe welded to the frame rails, it has really stiffened up the rear of the XJ.
Miscellaneous body items are 1/4" diamondplate across the body to the belt line, and rockers made out of 1/4" 3x5 square tube.
Last on the list is to get a cage installed. I should have that done before spring.

Sorry but I don't have any more pics at the moment.

Jay

[DaveHillier]

I was looking in an old JP magazine I've got here. I foud an XJ running Lambardi radius arms with a Dana 44 front out of a 1971 Bronco. I think this is the route I'm going to take. Is a f150 wider than a Bronco? Thats quite the beast you got there Jake!

[Lincoln]

Pre-99's are not SuperDuty's, in the parlance of our times. The new body style after 99 is what is refered to as a Super Duty. It has a different rear axle 10.5 Sterling as opposed to a 10.25 Sterling, the F-250's got a Dana 50 solid front vs. a Dana 50 TTB, and the funky bolt pattern that came with them.

The only pre-99 "Super Duty" was the F-450 chassis cab. It only came single cab, 2 wd, dually.

CRASH

Don't forget the supa doopies are hub centric on lug centric wheels. The 60's came in F-250's with the Heavy Duty option or the Diesel also.

On that note I don't believe Dodge has changed to the metric pattern yet and the newer body style's have 17" wheels also.

[Matt S.]

I was looking in an old JP magazine I've got here. I foud an XJ running Lambardi radius arms with a Dana 44 front out of a 1971 Bronco. I think this is the route I'm going to take. Is a f150 wider than a Bronco? Thats quite the beast you got there Jake!

That is FarmerMatts rig. Phil Lambardi did the initial work on those arms. They are basically a stock ford radius arm cut in half and sleeved with square tubing. And a 1" hiem at the end of it. You will have to build a custom crossmember to mount them to, but mostly a bolt in swap. The only problem with the EB 44 is that it is a LP 44. So unless you throw alloy shafts and big brakes, might as well have a HP 30.

matt

[Big Red]

That is FarmerMatts rig. Phil Lambardi did the initial work on those arms. They are basically a stock ford radius arm cut in half and sleeved with square tubing. And a 1" hiem at the end of it. You will have to build a custom crossmember to mount them to, but mostly a bolt in swap. The only problem with the EB 44 is that it is a LP 44. So unless you throw alloy shafts and big brakes, might as well have a HP 30.

matt

Thanks for the info Matt, both of U. :laugh3: Yeah, I saw that article and it was good, nice to see some locals get in the big mag. The EB does have it's advantages as it's the right width, coil line up, etc, but stock they have drum brakes, LP, and small 260 u-joints. This can all be fixed except the LP obviously. True a HP30 isn't that bad, that's why I'm going from a hp30 to a hp44, but I rather put my $ into a LP44 that a ton of $ into a hp30.

A f-250 hp44 isn't bad with its leaf spring perches that are going to be a bit easier to get off than the cast wedges on the f-150, some had welded wedges.

[DaveHillier]

What do you guys mean by an EB 44? I know this F100 has disk brakes and I'm quite sure it's HP. I definetly don't want to change my rims to 17" because of the added price of tires. I wanna keep 15" rims. I guess I'll be selling the F250 rear ends and getting something else.

[Gil BullyKatz]

You can keep the 15"s, especially if you run a 5 x 5.5 pattern (F-150)...
Pretty sure you can swap out the outers on a F-250/F-350 to match up

[renegade_z71]

it would be to your better interest to use the f100 axles, the front is more set up for a three link front set up. you can use 10bolt or dana 44 outer stuff to get either a 5 lug or a 6 lug bolt pattern and disc brakes bc the 77 axle probably has drums. on the rear, the 9 inch is quite a bit lighter than the d60. the gears are probably the same in both trucks 3.54 any how. running the tires with a wider track will help keep the rocks off your body so the wide track isnt such a bad thing.
my .02

[DaveHillier]

I wanna run 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern. What backspacing will I need on the rims to keep it as close to stock as possible? I'm also wondering about the outers on the f250. Would I be able to use them with the F100 D44? And would they be stonger than the F100? Thanks for all the great help guys! I'm gonna get Radius Arms made like FarmerMatt's. Is there a company that make them? Or do I have to make them?

[CRASH]

Actually you could get the pre-99 F-450 in 4wd. My neighbor has one, its got a huge Dana 70 front with a 10 lug bolt pattern. Might have been a conversion, but I know they were made.

That is not a factory item, that truck was an aftermarket conversion. They were usually built for utility companies by places like Oshkosh or HighMobility.

Pre-99 F-450's ONLY came in 2wd, evidnced by the fact that the 5 speed that came in them (SF-42 or SF-47) had a special tailhousing that had an integral parking brake drum mechanism that will not accomodate a transfer case.

CRASH

[DaveHillier]

I saw the pictures of this XJ http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47236&highlight=full+width+axle

Can I use those axles but get different rims to make it norrower because it looks too wide to run on the street for me. The cops are picky here.

[RKBA]

I saw the pictures of this XJ http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=47236&highlight=full+width+axle

Can I use those axles but get different rims to make it norrower because it looks too wide to run on the street for me. The cops are picky here.

Good Grief!

These people: http://www.stocktonwheel.com/ can make you just about any wheel that you want......for a price.

[DaveHillier]

So those XJs pictured are as narrow as you can go without getting customized wheels or narrowing the axles? Do you know what backspacing they have in those pictures?

Thanks