HP44...Got-er-DONE! (pics)

[BillR]

The HP44 is in and working great so far. I'm still taking it easy breaking-in the gears. Here's a pic of the "completed" project...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/azxjer/100_0433.jpg

...and a few poser shots with the 35" Mud Rovers and Cragar Soft-8s on. The lift is around 6".
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/azxjer/100_0435.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/azxjer/100_0429.jpg

[JnJ]

Looks great.

[willyb]

Looks sweet... What did the D44 come out of??

Will.

[BillR]

Looks sweet... What did the D44 come out of??

Will.
'76 F-150, shortened to use Waggy inner shafts.

[red91]

Looks sweet... What did the D44 come out of??

Will.


ditto. and yeah....nice lookin too.

[Goatman]

Looks good, Bill. Nice looking Jeep....

[seanR]

And soooo shiny!
It needs some dents and rock rash!
Then it will look cool!

[BillR]

And soooo shiny!
It needs some dents and rock rash!
Then it will look cool!
I'll see if I can work on that... :laugh3:

[BajaXJ92]

very nice!

[elephantrider1]

your an insperation to us all great xj

[diabloxj]

is that chevy one ton steering. did u use a over the axle bracket for your track bar. if so looks good.

[Capt. Nemo]

Looks good. You're rig is WAY too clean. I can fix that for ya... :laugh3:

Here's mine on it's way:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/muddyjeep1/wedgesoff.jpg

The new alloy waggy inners and ford stubs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v202/muddyjeep1/alloyaxles.jpg

What did you do about the brake line fittings to the calipers? Are they a match? Also, where did you measure from to get your measurements for how much to narrow each side? I've got it measured out (it was a little difficult), but was curious as to how you did it. RE bracketry? How difficult was it for you to get the axle tubing out of the knuckles? I assume that you cut the knuckles completely off, and then got the tubing out?

Again- looks good, looking forward to seeing it perform...

[Outdoors]

Nice job BillR.
How much was cut off on the drivers side housing to make the waggy shafts fit?
Just curious as I have a 78' HpD44 from a "Fullsize" Bronco. Thanks again for sharing your upgrade.

[BrettM]

what year Waggys are you guys using? 70s or 80s (passenger or driver drop)?

Capt. Nemo, did you find that HP44 at Pick N Pull!?! (orange paint)

[Goatman]

When I did my D44, I used the late model Waggy axles. To figure out how much to shorten, I used the Warn front axles application chart, which gives all of the axle lengths. I took the difference in axle length for each side from the F150 and the late Waggy, and that's how much I shortened it. I double checked the length by measuring from the center line of the ball joints to the inside of the side gears. It came out just right.

Brett, I used '80+ waggy axles, which is a very good length on each side for the XJ.

[Joe]

Looks good Bill.

[TRNDRVR]

Where'd you put your vent tube at, and how's you fasten your coils down?

Oh yeah, I'm almost done too. Just picked up my rear 44 with my 33 spline super 44 kit installed. :thumbup:

[BillR]

What did you do about the brake line fittings to the calipers? How difficult was it for you to get the axle tubing out of the knuckles?
I had brake lines all ordered up, then got a tip from a guy on Pirate. Use '85 Waggy calipers! They bolt right up to the Chevy caliper brackets AND the XJ lines. I have a set of YJ lines I was using, and they still work great.
Getting the tubing piece out WAS a PITA. Grind the back of the knuckle until the tube is flush, then try to pound the piece out with a BFH or press. Grind, pound, grind, pound, repeat as needed. :laugh3: Eventually you'll grind through the majority of the weld penetration and the tube will come out.

[BillR]

When I did my D44, I used the late model Waggy axles. To figure out how much to shorten, I used the Warn front axles application chart, which gives all of the axle lengths. I took the difference in axle length for each side from the F150 and the late Waggy, and that's how much I shortened it. I double checked the length by measuring from the center line of the ball joints to the inside of the side gears. It came out just right.

Brett, I used '80+ waggy axles, which is a very good length on each side for the XJ.
This is exactly how I shortened mine!

[BillR]

Where'd you put your vent tube at, and how's you fasten your coils down?

Oh yeah, I'm almost done too. Just picked up my rear 44 with my 33 spline super 44 kit installed. :thumbup:
The vent tube is near the top, just behind the "truss.
I haven't yet fastened the coils down.. :gag:

[BillR]

is that chevy one ton steering. did u use a over the axle bracket for your track bar. if so looks good.
I used a JKS OAB bracket.
The steering is 1.5" DOM tubing with Poison Spyder weld-in inserts for the tie rod and drag link, using 1-ton Chevy TREs.

[MudDawg]

Great tip Richard.

[Goatman]

I had brake lines all ordered up, then got a tip from a guy on Pirate. Use '85 Waggy calipers! They bolt right up to the Chevy caliper brackets AND the XJ lines. I have a set of YJ lines I was using, and they still work great.
Getting the tubing piece out WAS a PITA. Grind the back of the knuckle until the tube is flush, then try to pound the piece out with a BFH or press. Grind, pound, grind, pound, repeat as needed. :laugh3: Eventually you'll grind through the majority of the weld penetration and the tube will come out.

I just drilled out the XJ brake lines to the bigger size of the Chev banjo bolt.


:)

[BillR]

your an insperation to us all great xj
Inspiration? ...OK
I didn't do anything that hasn't already been done MANY times before. There are people on this site (Goatman, Beezil, MANY others) who have probably forgot more about XJs that I'll ever learn, so I used alot of their ideas. :repair:
Stick around, Grasshopper. You will learn much. :laugh3:

[Jes]

Getting the tubing piece out WAS a PITA. Grind the back of the knuckle until the tube is flush, then try to pound the piece out with a BFH or press. Grind, pound, grind, pound, repeat as needed. :laugh3: Eventually you'll grind through the majority of the weld penetration and the tube will come out.

Yes, that is a PITA! What I did on mine was cut along the weld at the C untill it was flush, then used a grinder on it till I could see the seam between the C and the cutoff axle tube. Then I took my Sawzaill and made two cuts through the axle tube to relieve the pressure, then pounded out the pieces.
http://www.fototime.com/{37389127-4220-41A4-89CF-A5022CE0103E}/picture.JPG

[XJCRAWLER]

Don't mean to change the topic but how hard were the rear flares to do? What kind of rear bumper is that? Also real nice clean rig, nice to see someone else avoid the bash & crash method to offroading.

[Capt. Nemo]

Yes, my axle is from the Pick N' Pull. After two years of searching, I finally found a complete axle with the welded on radius arm mounts. They're off now... :laugh3:

I also used the Warn axle shaft chart to determine how much needed to be shortened. The axle shafts I ordered are for an 80-84 Jeep Waggy.

My question is how did you guys locate on the axle tubes where to cut after determining how much to cut? The way I'm doing it is that I have taken out the carrier, took a tape measure down the inside of the tube and measured from a place inside the pumpkin to the end of the tube. Taking that measurement, I cut two pieces of wood at work (I'm a custom cabinet maker, so our machinery is accurate down to the thousandth of an inch - that's no b.s.). After I cut off the knuckles, I'll put those pieces of wood inside the tubes and measure from the end of the wood to the end of the tube. I'll then take that measurement and transfer it to the outside of the tube and cut. There's got to be a better way!!!

Also, I assume that there is a lip that will prevent the knuckle from being pushed past the end of the tube once everything is ready to be put back on? It was hard to tell from Jes' pics.

[Jes]

Also, I assume that there is a lip that will prevent the knuckle from being pushed past the end of the tube once everything is ready to be put back on? It was hard to tell from Jes' pics.

Actually, no there isn't. Just make them the same as they were before, this is about right...
http://www.fototime.com/{0E795CE7-37DE-45EE-880E-0E6E1C42FB3D}/picture.JPG
...be sure that everything is square(front to back and up and down) and you have your castor set right before you weld them up.

[Kittrell]

You could always cheat and buy Crane knuckles. But if you are on a budget build thats another couple hundred you DON"T want to spend............ :laugh3:

I would like to give myself credit for being the co-pilot on this build...........just kidding.............. :paperwork

I'm just glad it's DONE............ :flipoff:

[BillR]

I also used the Warn axle shaft chart to determine how much needed to be shortened. The axle shafts I ordered are for an 80-84 Jeep Waggy.

My question is how did you guys locate on the axle tubes where to cut after determining how much to cut?
All I did was to take the difference between the two inner shaft lengths (old vs. Waggy) for each side, and marked that difference on the tube with a Sharpie. I measured the tube from the knuckle's outer edge, so it gave me a little room for some finish grinding.
It doesn't need to be NEARLY as close as you are planning. Within 1/8" is just fine, as the axle shaft will be located by the spindle and hub. You just need a solid spline engagement in the carrier.

[hackedxj]

Clean job on the swap and the whole Jeep for that matter. Do you know how close to in width you are to the D30. That width looks really good .

[BillR]

Clean job on the swap and the whole Jeep for that matter. Do you know how close to in width you are to the D30. That width looks really good .
Thanks.
It's within 3/4" to what I had with the 30 w/manual hubs. It's around 61.5" WMS-WMS.

[IUPxj94]

wow that looks really good. i was thinking about going with the same swap for the front, i already did the d44 out of a scout for the rear, but i have a bigger problem at hand right now. in the back, i welded the perches and shock mounts on the axle and everything is ready to swap and after i put the new rear in and everything was done i puyt the tires on, 33x12.50 and they rub the springs. how did you get your stance so much wider? did you use a different axle?


dave

ps. do you have a pic straight on from the back?

[davidt]

wow that looks really good. i was thinking about going with the same swap for the front, i already did the d44 out of a scout for the rear, but i have a bigger problem at hand right now. in the back, i welded the perches and shock mounts on the axle and everything is ready to swap and after i put the new rear in and everything was done i puyt the tires on, 33x12.50 and they rub the springs. how did you get your stance so much wider? did you use a different axle?


dave

ps. do you have a pic straight on from the back?

try using rims with more backspacing...

[BillR]

I have a 44 rear from an XJ, so it's a little wider than a Scout AFAIK.
More backspace on the wheels would work, as would a set of wheel spacers.

[hjeepxj]

Looks damn good Bill! :cheers:

[SoCalMJ]

Very nice machine. I was kinda getting burnt out, but that brings it back.

[TrailHunter]

There's some good tech in this thread. I have always wondered if shortening an axle was something that could be done yourself. Those new welds have got to be top notch. It would suck if the inner knuckle didn't holdup :)

[BillR]

There's some good tech in this thread. I have always wondered if shortening an axle was something that could be done yourself. Those new welds have got to be top notch. It would suck if the inner knuckle didn't holdup :)
Yep, that would suck. I made 3 passes with an AC stick welder on each knuckle. It's on there! :laugh3:

[bshaw]

Bill, when you put your spring perches on how did you get you angle? Did you have to match caster of the d30? Or am I way off here?

[BillR]

I set the pinion where I wanted it to point, then welded on the Cs at 6* back, then welded the coil buckets straight up level.
Did I explain that right? :wierd: :laugh3:

[bshaw]

LOL. Yea, I think I got ya. Level with the Cs right?

[BillR]

LOL. Yea, I think I got ya. Level with the Cs right?
No, level with the ground.
I set the axle on a couple of jackstands and adjusted the pinion angle where I wanted it it to point. I welded on the Cs using an angle finder and set them 6* back, then welded the coil buckets on using a level. So ath the position the axle would be in the Jeep, the coil mounts would be level, or pointing straight up.
Kinda like this, although this is an "after" pic that doesn't have the angle correct. My bucket fell down in back, but everythings already welded anyway.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/azxjer/100_0375.jpg
Clear as mud? :laugh3:

[skyjackerXJ]

This is a topic that I have been wondering about...I've read that the buckets should be angled at the same degree as the knuckles.

I read it here: http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/tj/fa/brackets.asp

I was always wondering why the upper coil towers angled forward a little bit, 6 or 7 degrees, I think. Angling the axle buckets back at the same degrees would line them up, wouldn't they?

I'm sure that it wouldn't make much of a difference if they were set level. I'm at the bracketry setup stage of my project now so I was wondering if anyone had any more insight.

[AJ-MJ]

Nice truck, the HP44 is great too!!

[BillR]

This is a topic that I have been wondering about...I've read that the buckets should be angled at the same degree as the knuckles.

I read it here: http://www.bc4x4.com/tech/tj/fa/brackets.asp

I was always wondering why the upper coil towers angled forward a little bit, 6 or 7 degrees, I think. Angling the axle buckets back at the same degrees would line them up, wouldn't they?

I'm sure that it wouldn't make much of a difference if they were set level. I'm at the bracketry setup stage of my project now so I was wondering if anyone had any more insight.
I set mine the same as the Dana 30s were, almost level. My upper bumpstop is pretty centered in the coil, so...?
Interesting thought though. :lecture:

[skyjackerXJ]

I was referring to how the coil tower isn't completely vertical; It angles the coil forward. Because of this, the coil would have to slightly curve aft in order to sit flat or to compress. But if the lower perch was angled back at the same degree as the upper mount, the coil would only be able to travel straight up and down between the two ends.

Think of how a lift coil looks when the LCAs are too short. The perches are angled forward (instead of flat or back) and the coil has an irregular curve.

I know that I'm not explaining this as well as I'm thinking it.

[BillR]

I was referring to how the coil tower isn't completely vertical; It angles the coil forward. Because of this, the coil would have to slightly curve aft in order to sit flat or to compress. But if the lower perch was angled back at the same degree as the upper mount, the coil would only be able to travel straight up and down between the two ends.

Think of how a lift coil looks when the LCAs are too short. The perches are angled forward (instead of flat or back) and the coil has an irregular curve.

I know that I'm not explaining this as well as I'm thinking it.
I see what you're saying, but look at how the axle moves. It doesn't move up and back, just up. I guess my thought was setting the coil mount in-line to the axle movement.
I just looked at mine. They're angled slightly back, but not nearly at the same angle as the Cs are. They weren't on the stock D30 either. :wave:

[Capt. Nemo]

I may have missed it, but did you make your own bracketry, or get the set from RE? RE sells the TJ front axle bracket set, but I noticed the bridge over the pumpkin has that piece that bolts to the cover is not from a D30 (obviously). Was that custom made or part of the kit? Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions.
Eric

[BillR]

I may have missed it, but did you make your own bracketry, or get the set from RE? RE sells the TJ front axle bracket set, but I noticed the bridge over the pumpkin has that piece that bolts to the cover is not from a D30 (obviously). Was that custom made or part of the kit? Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions.
Eric
That's part of the TJ bracket kit that I used. It adds some extra support for the area under the welded-on UCA mount on the truss.
HTH :wave:

[bshaw]

No, level with the ground.
I set the axle on a couple of jackstands and adjusted the pinion angle where I wanted it it to point. I welded on the Cs using an angle finder and set them 6* back, then welded the coil buckets on using a level. So ath the position the axle would be in the Jeep, the coil mounts would be level, or pointing straight up.
Kinda like this, although this is an "after" pic that doesn't have the angle correct. My bucket fell down in back, but everythings already welded anyway.
Clear as mud? :laugh3:

Okay, now I understand. Thanks for the great info Bill! Nice looking axle and rig BTW!!
:cheers:

[TrailHunter]

Yep, that would suck. I made 3 passes with an AC stick welder on each knuckle. It's on there! :laugh3:

Did you weld on both sides of the inner knuckle? I'm just curious. Very nice and I'm jealous.

[BillR]

Did you weld on both sides of the inner knuckle? I'm just curious. Very nice and I'm jealous.
Nope, just the inside edge is welded. I did it like the OEM weld.
Thanks.

[Homer]

whats a knuckle?
whats passenger side drop mean?

[jrsxj98]

.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/azxjer/100_0375.jpg
Clear as mud? :laugh3:

Knuckles are the outer part of the axle (shape like a C) that the ball joints attach to and the outer knuckles attach to.

[davidt]

welcome homer, pass. side drop means that the differential is on the passengers side

[IUPxj94]

knuckles = control arms?

[jrsxj98]

knuckles = control arms?

huh. not exactly.

[Drunk tank]

knuckles = control arms?

go here http://www.highclearance.com/44components/index.htm

Those big green things are the knuckels. the inner is the one that mounts to the axle tube and the outer is the one your hub, wheel, brakes and steering linkage mounts to. the inner and outer knuckles are connected by two ball joints; one up top and one on the bottom.


hope that helps

[WobblesXJ]

That is BEAUTIFUL man!

Look for me to ask you LOTS of questions when I get to my front end.

[BillR]

That is BEAUTIFUL man!

Look for me to ask you LOTS of questions when I get to my front end.
Thanks, and ask away!
Like I said, there are lots of people here more qualified than me to answer questions about this swap, but I'll be glad to help all I can. I know I asked a BUNCH before I started. :laugh3:

[tkm]

I have a 44 rear from an XJ, so it's a little wider than a Scout AFAIK.
More backspace on the wheels would work, as would a set of wheel spacers.

what did you do about the lug patern? ( how did you match the rear 5x4.5 to the front?)

[BillR]

what did you do about the lug patern? ( how did you match the rear 5x4.5 to the front?)
I ordered Superior shafts for the rear that were drilled in a dual bolt pattern, installed the studs in the "wide" spots and had the drums redrilled for 5 on 5.5".

[MMIXJ]

looks good bill...

boy that's a lot more snow than i would've expected to see in AZ! ;)

[BillR]

looks good bill...

boy that's a lot more snow than i would've expected to see in AZ! ;)
Yep, I'm at 7000 ft. here in Flagstaff. It's not Colorado, but it's as close as AZ's got. :laugh3:

[davidt]

what did you do for d-lines? Are you running a booster? What about rear brakelines? I know you said you are using waggy front brakes.

[BillR]

what did you do for d-lines? Are you running a booster? What about rear brakelines? I know you said you are using waggy front brakes.
d-lines? long-travel driveshafts with CVs on both ends.. (is that what you meant, drivelines?)
The rear brakeline is a stock YJ line, as are the front lines. No extra booster was required.

[Fergie]

d-lines? long-travel driveshafts with CVs on both ends.. (is that what you meant, drivelines?)
The rear brakeline is a stock YJ line, as are the front lines. No extra booster was required.

Drivelines havent been used in a week though... :shhh: :anon: :wave:

[BillR]

Drivelines havent been used in a week though... :shhh: :anon: :wave:
Very true, sadly!
This weekend, though... :repair: :laugh3:

[Fergie]

Very true, sadly!
This weekend, though... :repair: :laugh3:
Friday.

[davidt]

how much should I expect to spend on drive lines?

[Fergie]

how much should I expect to spend on drive lines?
Got my rear for $190 new, and would expect the same for the front.

Fergie

[BillR]

Got my rear for $190 new, and would expect the same for the front.

Fergie
That's about right. I can get them made for that price.