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Another 4Link front

XJ_ranger

NAXJA Member
NAXJA Member
Location
Port Orchard, WA
So i was poking around and poped my head under a 2003 Dodge Ram XXXX dissel and noticed that it was a Solid front axle on a coil 4 link setup. I thought to myself -
Who makes Dodge? - Diamler Chrysler
Who makes Jeep? - Diamler Chrysler
wonder if the design team and design specs for the RAM and the Cherokee / TJ were similar?

what if the LCA/UCA, panhard, and coil mounts were in the same spot? If they arent, how close would they have to be to make a close to bolt in setup?

anyone else know any more than i do? Anyone know what the front axle should be?

any cool ideas?
 
I thought about that too, but was trying more to track down a f series hp44. The new body style Ram uses AAM axles, not Dana's. The body style/generation before this newer 1 in the 90's had a 44 front/9.25 rear axle for the 1500 model. Most people just go for the fords because you can get hp 44 or 60 from them and the 9" or dana 60 are good rear axles.
Troy
 
Yes, the Ram has had basically the same 4-link front end as the XJ since back in the '90's. The similarities in the designs are no coincidence, but they're far from being interchangeable.

The axles used to all be Dana's -- D44's in the 1/2-ton and also in the 3/4-ton I think, and D60's in the 1-ton trucks. The new Rams come with AAM axles front and rear though, Dana no longer has a supplier contract with DCX for axles... Which also means that future Jeeps will NOT have Dana axles. In fact, the new WK Grand Cherokee is the first to come with the AAM axles, and not Dana or Chryco units, and the next gen Wrangler will not have Dana axles either.
 
Big Red said:
I thought about that too, but was trying more to track down a f series hp44. The new body style Ram uses AAM axles, not Dana's. The body style/generation before this newer 1 in the 90's had a 44 front/9.25 rear axle for the 1500 model. Most people just go for the fords because you can get hp 44 or 60 from them and the 9" or dana 60 are good rear axles.
Troy

yes but the fords require welding the uca/lca/panhard mounts on due to their raduis arm stock setup (IIRC).
im wondering how far off the LCA/UCA mounts for the Ram full width axles are from the cherokee mounts.
Thanks for the d44 tip on the earlier ones - ill take a look at one at a pick and pull and get some measurements... then climb under the cherokee and measure that...
once the snow melts a little... i hate the cold white stuff...
 
the mounts are pretty far off from eachother. In addition to be quite a bit wider, the UCA's are basically directly above the LCA's, and the coil is nearly centered over the axle with the shock sitting inside the coil. Most Ram front axles also have a center axle disconnect similar to the old D30's.

This page has some good pics of the brackets:

http://www.dodgeram.org/ki4cy/4x4/dynatrac/swap_details.htm
 
Here's a bit of useless trivia for you.

The XJ was designed whilst Jeep was owned by Renault.

The front suspension was designed during this period and the person who oversaw the design (sorry, name escapes me a tthe moment) was also in charge of the Renault F1 suspension design team before (during?) this design period.

It's probably a stretch to imply any connection between the F1 team and the Jeep and I'm not sure if that would even be a good connection but it makes for semi-interesting trivia nonetheless.

r@m
 
Root Moose said:
It's probably a stretch to imply any connection between the F1 team and the Jeep and I'm not sure if that would even be a good connection but it makes for semi-interesting trivia nonetheless.

r@m
true - but my thinking was that - If you already have a system that works and is proven and you have already paid the design team - why not use the same slightly modified design in another vehicle and save money...

Thanks for the pictures Jeepin Jason - they are helpful
hmm - im no interested to see how much fab work it would be to use thoes mounts - either on the axle end or on the XJ end... I might just end up with a 1/4" diamond plate firewall by the end of this crazy idea...
 
XJ_ranger said:
true - but my thinking was that - If you already have a system that works and is proven and you have already paid the design team - why not use the same slightly modified design in another vehicle and save money...

Thanks for the pictures Jeepin Jason - they are helpful
hmm - im no interested to see how much fab work it would be to use thoes mounts - either on the axle end or on the XJ end... I might just end up with a 1/4" diamond plate firewall by the end of this crazy idea...


The D-60 they use in the front of the Rams is not very impressive either. 32 spline, and the brakes are so horrible that they should have been recalled by Chryco long ago.

CRASH
 
Jeepin Jason said:
... Which also means that future Jeeps will NOT have Dana axles. In fact, the new WK Grand Cherokee is the first to come with the AAM axles, and not Dana or Chryco units, and the next gen Wrangler will not have Dana axles either.

You are dead wrong on the Grand Cherokee (WK) axles. The axles are assembled by DCX at their Detroit Axle Plant facility...both front IFS and rear. The only axles that AAM does for DCX are the heavy duty RAM axles. You are also wrong about Dana not having a supplier contract. They will be making the axles for the new SRT-8 Grand Cherokee.

Jay
 
XJ_ranger said:
yes but the fords require welding the uca/lca/panhard mounts on due to their raduis arm stock setup (IIRC).
XJ_ranger said:
im wondering how far off the LCA/UCA mounts for the Ram full width axles are from the cherokee mounts. Thanks for the d44 tip on the earlier ones - ill take a look at one at a pick and pull and get some measurements... then climb under the cherokee and measure that...once the snow melts a little... i hate the cold white stuff...


Now you got me thinking, and wondering too about these axles. I started looking around on the net for a little while and found some information. What years had what axles, and axle specs right here (spline count): http://dodgeram.org/tech/specs/axle/axlespecs.html
This was something a little more helpful:
(1993-2001)
Application: 1500 and 2500 4x4 Regular Cab, 1500 4x4 Club Cab (with
NV231HD an NV241 transfer case)
Capacity: 3,850 lbs
Type: Hypoid
Ratios avail 3.54,3.92,4.09
Ring gear Diameter 8.50
Pinion mount Overhung
Pinion shaft diameter 1.376" inner bearing
1.35" outer bearing
Differential Pinions Two
Axle Shaft material Low carbon Alloy
Axle shaft diameter 1.31" inner
1.34" outer
axle spline pitch 1.25"
Spring Centers 42.15"
Universal Single Cardian
Turning Angle 36 Degrees
Fluid capacity 4.8 pints
wheel bearing Tapered Roller
Tie Rod type Ball and socket
Tie rod diameter 1.25"
Tie rod thickness 0.156"
Ball centers 61.16"
housing pressed tubes
wall thickness .39"

What do you think? Good, bad, okay? Wondering too if these axles are cast or aluminum? And how thick are the walls, not .39 right? Anyway, if find out anything let us know......
 
The spring centers are just about 6 inches wider than OEM XJ, and the coil diameter is larger as well.

I don't understand why you would want to spend ANY time trying to cram this thing under an XJ:

No hubs, failure prone 4wd engagement, weak brakes (compared to other 44's), no options for high steer, low pinion, and incorrect castor angles for any sort of lifted XJ.

Yeah, that would be well worth your time. :rolleyes:

CRASH
 
BrettM said:
someone put a PowerWagon drivetrain in their XJ! that would be niiice

Cummins deisel
NV5600 (6 speed)
NV271
axles with big shafts, selectable lockers, and 4.56 gears

now that's a tow rig :)

I agree. Do the PowerWagon drivetrain if you want to use a modern dodge truck drivetrain. I have been reading about it lately in JP and Petersons. It comes with the Hemi now and maybe the 6.1L Hemi later on, I read that the deisel wasn't used because it would weigh down the front end too much. The susp works really well on this thing as well. My bro-in-law DaystarNJO bought a 04' Hemi Ram and now saw this 1. It is nice, but would U really want to wheel it on stuff like the Con etc?
The AAM axles are nice as is with the selectable locker and 4.56 gears, real nice, but I wonder how much the aftermarket will respond to them and how heavily Mopar will use them in the future. Man I sure wish the Rubicon came with 4.56 gears then U could just bolt on some 35's with a 4-6"lift and wheel just about anything.
 
jlake1 said:
You are dead wrong on the Grand Cherokee (WK) axles. The axles are assembled by DCX at their Detroit Axle Plant facility...both front IFS and rear. The only axles that AAM does for DCX are the heavy duty RAM axles. You are also wrong about Dana not having a supplier contract. They will be making the axles for the new SRT-8 Grand Cherokee.

Jay

the only Rams with SFA ARE the HD trucks. So the WK's drivelines may not be AAM, but they're not Dana either, at least the regular ones (I haven't heard much regarding the SRT-8 WK). It's not the 8.25", and it's not what's in the Durango, so what is it?

So is the SRT-8 going to have a D60 or something?

Any word on the axles used in the next gen Wrangler? I've read that those would be AAM axles?
 
Jeepin Jason said:
the only Rams with SFA ARE the HD trucks. So the WK's drivelines may not be AAM, but they're not Dana either, at least the regular ones (I haven't heard much regarding the SRT-8 WK). It's not the 8.25", and it's not what's in the Durango, so what is it?

So is the SRT-8 going to have a D60 or something?

Any word on the axles used in the next gen Wrangler? I've read that those would be AAM axles?


Jason is right, they are not using Dana axles under the new WK, they are AAM. If you look in any of the new 4 wheelin mags, they list specs on the new WK. And it has AAM axles front and rear.
 
BrettM said:
someone put a PowerWagon drivetrain in their XJ! that would be niiice

Cummins deisel
NV5600 (6 speed)
NV271
axles with big shafts, selectable lockers, and 4.56 gears

now that's a tow rig :)

Just finished my bro's truck upgrade over the holidays:

'90 Dodge 5.9 Cummins, 270 Hp, 625 ft/lbs, NV5600, NP 205, D-70 rear, D-60 front.

How can you beat that for beef?

CRASH

The 5600 is very nice, except for the weight. 365 pounds, dry!
 
CRASH said:
The spring centers are just about 6 inches wider than OEM XJ, and the coil diameter is larger as well.

I don't understand why you would want to spend ANY time trying to cram this thing under an XJ:

No hubs, failure prone 4wd engagement, weak brakes (compared to other 44's), no options for high steer, low pinion, and incorrect castor angles for any sort of lifted XJ.

Yeah, that would be well worth your time. :rolleyes:

CRASH

points well taken - didnt get a chance to measure, but it looks like a lot more fab that my "Ideal" front end would have. just keepin my eyes open for an upgraded easier than RE brackets front end setup...

thanks for all the info...
 
well.... *I* think that the power wagon should give us something to look forward to.....

doesn't anyone else see the similarity between this thing and the jeep rescue consept?

I for one speculate that we will see the powerwagon drivetrain, or something extremely similar, in a new fullsize jeep......
 
I hope you're right. Personally I don't think DCX will build anything close to the Rescue (ie: a full-size Jeep), but we can always hope. Closest I think we'll get is the upcoming Commander, which really isn't much more than a Durango-sized Grand Cherokee (ie: unibody, IFS, etc, but with 3 rows of seating).
 
Jeepin Jason said:
the only Rams with SFA ARE the HD trucks. So the WK's drivelines may not be AAM, but they're not Dana either, at least the regular ones (I haven't heard much regarding the SRT-8 WK). It's not the 8.25", and it's not what's in the Durango, so what is it?

So is the SRT-8 going to have a D60 or something?

Any word on the axles used in the next gen Wrangler? I've read that those would be AAM axles?

Ok, yeah. When I referenced the Ram, I meant the 1500 REARs were DCX. The WK rear is the 8.25 carrier, but with full floating housings with unit bearings.
I think (don't know) that the SRT-8 is going to use the current housings and shafts with heavier duty (Maybe 60?) Dana centersections. I think DCX is afraid of blowing the pinions out of the 8.25's with a 6.1 HEMI....
BTW, the XK (Commander) will be the same axle as the WK....still just a 8.25....


CartsXJ said:
Jason is right, they are not using Dana axles under the new WK, they are AAM. If you look in any of the new 4 wheelin mags, they list specs on the new WK. And it has AAM axles front and rear

I don't care what the mags say....they are DCX. I work for the Tier1 supplier who MAKES the housings. I ship 1400 sets a day to Detroit Axle Plant.
Not being a smarta$$, just giving evidence why I made the statement.

Later,
Jay
 
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