• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Long term reliablity of high strength U-joints

Roxtar

Roxtar

NAXJA Forum User
Location
NW Indiana-Chicago area
I'm trying to decide on a set of joints to go in my new alloy axles. Conventional wisdom says go with any of the needle-less setups like CTM, OX or Randy's new super joints. I've always wondered about wear issues with these on a DD. In my business we use plain bearings (metal sliding on metal) for bushings only (a shaft sliding though, for instance), never in a spinning design. For spinning you typically use a standard type bearing (roller, ball, or needle) because a constant spinning motion causes plain bearings to wear prematurely. Calling Rawbrown confirmed my concerns as he said he wouldn't recommend using them on a DD without locking hubs. They won't break but they do wear quickly.
I probably put 2000 miles on my XJ between trail rides. I don't need to buy a super strong joint and have it worn out before it hits the trail for the first time.
This whole, somewhat longwinded, post is actually a preface to asking if others out there are using these joints in DDs and, if so, what are your experiences with the wear issues I described.
 
I'd suggest Longfields too for the price and the upgrade in design and strength, I think they sell for $70/ea. If you do get any of these other high strength u-joints (CTM, OX, Yukon, etc etc) U will need to grease them very often and that could be a real pain but they are very strong as well so you have to decide if that is worth it. I'd say try the longfields out and see how those are unless you think U really need the other stronger ones. I'm going to run 37" mtrs and run the Con, Fordyce, JV, etc so I needed to get the OX I bought and got for $100/ea, plus it was a good price so I bought the 3 the guy had for sale on Pirate.
Troy
 
kid4lyf said:
I'm trying to decide on a set of joints to go in my new alloy axles. Conventional wisdom says go with any of the needle-less setups like CTM, OX or Randy's new super joints. I've always wondered about wear issues with these on a DD. In my business we use plain bearings (metal sliding on metal) for bushings only (a shaft sliding though, for instance), never in a spinning design. For spinning you typically use a standard type bearing (roller, ball, or needle) because a constant spinning motion causes plain bearings to wear prematurely. Calling Rawbrown confirmed my concerns as he said he wouldn't recommend using them on a DD without locking hubs. They won't break but they do wear quickly.
I probably put 2000 miles on my XJ between trail rides. I don't need to buy a super strong joint and have it worn out before it hits the trail for the first time.
This whole, somewhat longwinded, post is actually a preface to asking if others out there are using these joints in DDs and, if so, what are your experiences with the wear issues I described.
Click to expand...

Can you explain to me how a U-joint is a spinning design?

It only oscillates around a center point while turning, and it never spins. Going in a straight line, it is only seeing a shearing load, and a minimal one at that unless the front axle is engaged.

CRASH
 
CRASH said:
Can you explain to me how a U-joint is a spinning design?

It only oscillates around a center point while turning, and it never spins. Going in a straight line, it is only seeing a shearing load, and a minimal one at that unless the front axle is engaged.

CRASH
Click to expand...
I realize it doesn't spin 360 degrees but the point is, it spins back and forth with the same constant points of metal to metal contact. This HAS to cause galling as it "wipes" away the lubrication.
 
bgcntry72 said:
Longfields.
Click to expand...
Don't they also replace the needle bearings with a solid bushing?
 
Have you ever thought about just welding your ujoints and making them into a "Lincoln joint" like the folks do with their differentials. It's cheap and simple. You laugh! Remember....I was with you in Moab!! :laugh3: :sunshine:







kid4lyf said:
I'm trying to decide on a set of joints to go in my new alloy axles. Conventional wisdom says go with any of the needle-less setups like CTM, OX or Randy's new super joints. I've always wondered about wear issues with these on a DD. In my business we use plain bearings (metal sliding on metal) for bushings only (a shaft sliding though, for instance), never in a spinning design. For spinning you typically use a standard type bearing (roller, ball, or needle) because a constant spinning motion causes plain bearings to wear prematurely. Calling Rawbrown confirmed my concerns as he said he wouldn't recommend using them on a DD without locking hubs. They won't break but they do wear quickly.
I probably put 2000 miles on my XJ between trail rides. I don't need to buy a super strong joint and have it worn out before it hits the trail for the first time.
This whole, somewhat longwinded, post is actually a preface to asking if others out there are using these joints in DDs and, if so, what are your experiences with the wear issues I described.
Click to expand...
 
Danno said:
Have you ever thought about just welding your ujoints and making them into a "Lincoln joint" like the folks do with their differentials.
Click to expand...
Steering is for puzzies
Danno said:
Remember....I was with you in Moab!! :laugh3: :sunshine:
Click to expand...
Exactly the reason for this post.
Actually I haven't had any axle issues since welding the caps in my stockers.
However,

As Beezil put it,
"BOTW is no Attica"
 
In order to make a U-joint stronger, you have to increase the trunion size, use a stronger material, or preferably, both. If you increase the trunion size, you've got to get rid of the bearings. Of all the bearingless designs, I think the OX's are the most DD friendly, as they have the largest bronze bearing surface, and they are more easily replaced by the user.

The charge to rebuild my CTM's after three years of hard use was $189, which is 8 new caps and a trip to the cryo tank.

CRASH
 
Since there is no load on the u-joints when in 2wd, and since the u-joint doesn't rotate at all when going in a straight line, and since the joint only spins marginally back and forth when you are turning, and since the surface still rides on a film of grease, the wear factor is negligble. Jack from CTM has run them in his CJ as a DD with the hubs locked to see how long they would last with no noticeable wear. If you're thinking about ordering some, just ask him about it. Most peoples comments about wear on a daily driver are speculative and not from experience. Not many have run them on a real DD to have concrete info.

If I was daily driving a rig with alloy shafts I'd probably run the Longfields just because they are cheaper and are probably easier to replace then the CTM's. I'd keep them greased and not worry about it.
 
Brad, the longfeilds are just standard 5-706 spicer joints. They heat treat & cryo treat the cross. They also replace the needle bearings with the solid bushing like a CTM. I'm running these in my tractor & also in my new buggy. I've broken a warn shaft without breaking the joint so in my mind they're strong enough. The last set I bought were $80 a piece. As for DD on these joints, I don't see why not. As CRASH said they're only spinning when turning & if it's not locked in 4X4 they won't see much load... If you grease them periodically I would bet they'd last.

Danno, the problem with using standard joints & just welding the caps is that you still end up with the needle bearings. These tend to crush under hard use. The point for welding them to the shafts is to keep the joint from wallowing out the shaft with stock soft axle shafts. This is a mute point once you hop up to alloys. IMO it's pointless to jump to strong alloys if you're not going to do the joints also.

Matt

botw3056.jpg
 
OK, new question. Anyone have a website for longfield?
Yes, I searched.
 
I talked to a guy at OX, about this specifically. He told me that one of their guys has put 45K miles on his Ox joints (DD and Wheeling) with no problems. Just keep them greased.

Dan
 
Dan Turner said:
I talked to a guy at OX, about this specifically. He told me that one of their guys has put 45K miles on his Ox joints (DD and Wheeling) with no problems. Just keep them greased.

Dan
Click to expand...
I read a post about these saying they couldn't be greased while in the vehicle.
Yes?
No?
 
Matt, I was just jerking his chain a bit and was joking about welding. I meant that he needed to weld the joint SOLID. Like a Lincoln locker. I was with him in Moab when he broke two joints. The last one was on flat ground on the Behind The Rocks trail. We got pretty fast at changing out axles on that trail. Like I said, just joking! :laugh3: I put Oxs in mine when I installed a D44 in the front. Those things are a bitch to grease. Only way I have seen to do it is to pull the axles to get at the fitting as the zerk is really buried.
Danno




FarmerMatt said:
Brad, the longfeilds are just standard 5-706 spicer joints. They heat treat & cryo treat the cross. They also replace the needle bearings with the solid bushing like a CTM. I'm running these in my tractor & also in my new buggy. I've broken a warn shaft without breaking the joint so in my mind they're strong enough. The last set I bought were $80 a piece. As for DD on these joints, I don't see why not. As CRASH said they're only spinning when turning & if it's not locked in 4X4 they won't see much load... If you grease them periodically I would bet they'd last.

Danno, the problem with using standard joints & just welding the caps is that you still end up with the needle bearings. These tend to crush under hard use. The point for welding them to the shafts is to keep the joint from wallowing out the shaft with stock soft axle shafts. This is a mute point once you hop up to alloys. IMO it's pointless to jump to strong alloys if you're not going to do the joints also.

Matt

botw3056.jpg
Click to expand...
 
I was just about to order some longfields for my new Warn Shafts today! They are fairly easily greased through a needle fitting in each cap. I still wouldn't be all that gung ho to run them in a non lockout application though. Didn't one of you western guys (Brian something or other) install a set of these and wore the bronze down too quick. I recall that he replaced them with standard 760's. Goatman once mentioned to me that standard 760's seem to hold up pretty well in alloy shafts. I've been running a set of standard 760's with bushings to replace the needle bearings in some stock shafts with the ears wallowed out a bit and the caps fully welded in for the past few months. All ok so far, but I have a D44 with lockouts too! They'll be spares soon. Jeff
 
If you haven't considered the Jantz joint, perhaps you should. Look here for there inf. http://www.jantz4x4.com/products/jantzjoint/jantzjoint.html. The super grease stuff is supposed to really cut down on friction, so perhaps they would work ok in a DD rig without lockouts? The trunions on the joint are very large too. I believe the Yukon/Randy's Ring and Pinoin joints are the same joint. I was quoted $220 for a pair from Carl Jantz awhile ago. Just another option. Jeff
 
FarmerMatt said:
botw3056.jpg
Click to expand...

Do you have to paint them a gaudy color in order to extract maximum performance? If that is the case, I'm breaking out the labia pink spray paint for my CTM's......

CRASH
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
2000 XJ, high miles, lots of new parts, still have vibration
Replies
10
Views
1K
N8N_99xj
N
J
FS: 1992 Cherokee - ready to run, great DD. 2800$
Replies
3
Views
2K
jeeptorino68
J
C
1999 XJ 4 door lifted on 35s with Dana 44s & extras – under 76K miles
Replies
5
Views
5K
Gjeep
G
blondejoncherokee
1988 MJ for sale crawler and DD
Replies
5
Views
1K
blondejoncherokee
blondejoncherokee
blondejoncherokee
1988 MJ for sale Crawler / DD (Nor- Cal)
Replies
1
Views
903
blondejoncherokee
blondejoncherokee
Back
Top