My buddies first stuck...4wd?!

We found some new trails that were pretty nasty yesterday and b/c my xj is still waiting its sye and d/s i road w/ my buddy in his TJ. The other tj we were w/ had 33" BFG mt's and my buddies that i was in had 31" BFG a/t's. We hit a mud/water pit half way through, keeping drivers side tires on the mud and passenger side was completely under water/mud(wasnt wide enough) on the way back i guess we hit our own rut and ended up getting stuck. 2 main questions....his tj is a five speed and he was afraid to put the clutch in while we were stuck b/c he heard it was bad. Whats the details w/ this? We werent even up to the differentials in water or mud when he was stuck. My second question is i was kinda dissapointed at the performance of the 4wd...while he was trying to get out i was watching what tires were spinning and it seemed like one rear and one front were spinning the entire time and the other two were kinda just jerking foward on and off...no where near enough to get us out...ended up getting winched out. So in a nut shell what tires have drive to them in 4h..and 4lo and when? Thanks for any info.

I have no idea what you mean with "put the clutch in". I'm thinking push the clutch pedal in? I don't know who told him it's bad... I can't see why. I guess maybe mud could get between the clutch dish and flywheel, though you'd need to be in some deep mud for that.

As for the second question, that would be because he has open differentials in the axles. You're going to have power sent to the tire with the least amount of resistance (least traction). That's why lockers are a good thing.

JeepXJ93 said:

We found some new trails that were pretty nasty yesterday. My XJ is still waiting its sye and d/s, so I road w/ my buddy in his TJ. The other tj we were w/ had 33" BFG mt's and the guy that I was with had 31" BFG a/t's.
We hit a mud/water pit half way through. The drivers side tires were in the mud and the passenger side was completely under water/mud(wasnt wide enough). On the way back, I guess we hit our own ruts and ended up getting stuck.

2 main questions...

His TJ is a five speed and he was afraid to put the clutch in while we were stuck because he heard it was bad. Whats the details w/ this? We werent even up to the differentials in water or mud when he was stuck.

My second question: I was kinda dissapointed at the performance of the 4wd. While he was trying to get out I was watching what tires were spinning. It seemed like one rear and one front were spinning the entire time and the other two were kinda just jerking foward on and off. It was not enough to get us out so we ended up getting winched out. So in a nut shell, what tires have drive to them in 4h..and 4lo and when? Thanks for any info.

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Yea thats what i meant...sorry "push", yea thats what i thought, the flywheel and everything i thought was sealed up pretty good. Whats the point of putting the most power to the tire w/ the least amt. of traction?

JeepXJ93 said:

Yea thats what i meant...sorry "push", yea thats what i thought, the flywheel and everything i thought was sealed up pretty good. Whats the point of putting the most power to the tire w/ the least amt. of traction?

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Its not a point of putting power to the tire with the least traction, but rather a sukcy by-product of the design of a differnetial. without going into details, in order for your car to travel around a turn, your tires need to travel at diffent speeds, because one follows a smaller arc then the other. so an open differntial is designed around this. but a by-product is only bveing able to get traction to one tire, the one thats easyest to turn. lockers, posi's, ect, get around this to some extreme or the other, but the closer youi get to having both tires powered all the time, the more notciable it can affect handling. its a give and take type of relationship.

If you are stuck in deep mud or water and you push in the clutch it is possible to mud and grim between the clutch and the flywheel. This general dose bad things and tends to wear out parts quickly. However that only applies to DEEP water or mud, we are talking about headlight level or higher. It’s not even a concern if it’s shallower than that. Lock Rites are cheap and you can put one in by yourself in a couple of hours :laugh3:

Don't forget to give those AT's some credit for the stuck. Not the tire you want to have in mud.

yea i know the at's had suttin to do w/ it.....so lockers make the jeep all wheel drive all the time or still only when we shift into 4h or 4lo?

P.S i've seen those cheaper lockers at rusty's off road for a couple hundred, can you lock just the front or just the rear or do you have to do both? Are the cheap ones junk for an off roader who goes off roading maybe once a week in trails that take 20 minutes to get through?

You opened a can of worms with that one. Do a search for lockers and you will find more information than you can ever possibly read. Basically lockers by pass the differential action of the axle and “lock” the shafts together making both tires turn at the same time. If you have ONE locker then your Jeep is actually THREE wheel drive: on the axle with a locker both tires turn, on the axle with a standard open differential one tire will spin. If you have TWO lockers then your Jeep is actually FOUR wheel drive: all four tires will turn (assuming you have it in 4 wheel drive). They range in price from the simple Lock-Rite for about $280 (probably what you saw at Rusty’s) up to $700 or more for electronic (Eaton and Auburn), cable (OX) or air (ARB) operated systems. As to which one is better, it all depends on who you ask. I don’t think that there is such a thing as a bad locker, they all work pretty well. It’s just a matter of how much you want to spend and what features you like or don’t like. You can use a locker in the front, rear, or both. A lot of people run a locker in the rear and a limited slip in the front, but that is a whole other subject.

To touch up on the last reply. There are different types of lockers that do different things. An electric, cable, or air actuated locker gives you the option of having an open diff until you engage the locker. A locker like the Lock-Right or EZ locker means anytime there's torque going to the axle( your foots on the gas) the locker is engaged. Or there's Detroit, Spool etc. which is always locked, usually not found on daily drivers.
The transfercase must be engaged in 4hi or 4lo to have power going to both differentials, giving you "4" wheel drive.

I'd have to agree that it'd have to be DEEP mud/water before pushing in the clutch would cause problems. I had my old Geo Tracker (5spd stick) buried up to just below headlight level in mud a few times and there were no problems. When I eventually changed the clutch out (4 people learned to drive a stick on that poor thing...me and I taught three girl friends), it was all still clean. I understand wanting to be safe, but it shouldn't be a problem.

EDIT: Don't mean to hijack, but who here knows which one it is that is a selectable locker but when unlocked is a LSD? I think its an Auburn cause its electric I'm pretty sure.

Thanks for the info.

in the mud it's all about wheelspin too, you shoulda been in 2nd or 3rd gear with mud flying all over the place, before getting stuck. how did he "try to get out" without using the clutch? I take it he is not a fan of "rocking"

Yea....truthfully he didnt really try to get out...i guess new wheelers like ourselves dont know at what point we are putting "too much" stress on our jeeps so he basically got stuck, spun for about 15 seconds IN FIRST GEAR and then let it stall out b/c he didnt want to push the clutch in. So just to clearify...before we hit the mud pit he shoulda been in 2nd or 3rd...or he shoulda shifted into 2nd after starting to slip in?? Thanks for all the help.

inertia is the key, keep moving forward, modulate the gas, if you're revving out and slowing down, shift, maintain forward momentum, try to stay off the rev-limiter but remember that it is there to protect the engine in case you forget. do not hit big deep holes with too much speed, you could force water into the intake/distributor and if it dies you're stuck too. at's will get you through some shizi, but you gotta know how to use them. I used to have a 2wd xj and I wasn't "stuck" till my diff was underground, I would spin the tires about 60mph while going about 5mph.

BTW mud is a lot easier to clean off while its wet, and it's a lot easier to work on a truck that doesn't drop crap in your eyes every time you touch something. stop at the car wash on the way home, your paint and your mechanic will thank you.

Cool, i'll let him know...so even thought the mud was only about half way up our wheels...the fact the our tires woulda been slinging it all over the place the clutch would have stayed clean?

clutch gettin dirty is NOT an issue until there is WATER touching the bottom of the body, even then its not a serious issue till its comin in the doors.

awesome thanks for the info.