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Articulation with minimal lift

crazyoffroader

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Seattle, WA
Has anyone ever tried to get better articulation at lower height(2-4")? Could you do this by raising the motor/Tranny and reworking the tracbar and steering? I dont like the looks of a 4"+ lifted rig, but I would like the maneuverability/traction that it gives you.
For those who dont understand my thinking, I like a relatively low COG, preferedly at or below my waist(2-3'). I have had too many buddies roll their rigs because they were too tall for the terrain. I know their skill had something to do with it, but it's just my preference.
Thanks in advance.
 
What size tires are you planning on running? That will influence how much lift you may need. Raising the motor and tranny would just be accomplished with a lift. :laugh3: The inner front fenders and inner rear sheetmetal is what limits stuff. Trim all you want.............

-Mike L.
 
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This is a 2 inch shackle/spacer lift on my 01 XJ. Tires are 245-70-16, stock control arms, trackbar, swaybars are disconnected. It stuffs the tires WAY into the wheel wells, and they only rub a tiny little bit on the lower control arms. The tires do not rub the fenders at all. Here are some pics.

Wheelstuffer1.jpg


Wheelstuffer5.jpg


Wheelstuffer6.jpg


FallRun13.jpg


FallRun20.jpg
 
Run some longer bump stops, shocks with the right travel, and get some aftermarket arms with shperical rod ends. The right bump stops will force the drooping side down once bottomed out.
 
Mike L said:
What size tires are you planning on running? That will influence how much lift you may need. Raising the motor and tranny would just be accomplished with a lift. :laugh3: The inner front fenders and inner rear sheetmetal is what limits stuff. Trim all you want.............

-Mike L.
I plan on running 235/75/15's for now, but I will be upgrading soon .
I had planned on cutting the fenders all the way to the top and pushing in the inner fender in order to gain articulation, but the lifted stock suspension is prohibitive of going past a certain point (shocks bottom & top out, springs bottom out, tracbar binds, etc). Can I move all this up and around to gain articulation? I would post pics but I dont have a digital cemera
Thanks for the help.
 
235/75/15's??????????

You don't need to do all that for those.

Maybe you should take your rig out and use it some first. See what the limitations are, where things hit, etc. Then maybe set back and think a little bit. If you raise everything but the suspension mounts the center of gravity still goes up and the only thing you've accomplished is a lot of work to run 28" tires.
 
Just to give you something to think about, how much flex can you get out of a low suspension with shocks matching this lift (about 6" travel)? :speepin:
 
Hey Atl, what kind of shocks do you run with your spacer/ shackle set up? I'm looking to do something similar lift wise and like the flex you are getting in those posted pictures. I'd like to get some shocks that don't ride rough and are flexy (read: well matched to my suspension lift).

Thanks,
Justin
 
Right now I am at 3inches of lift and my rear completely out flexes the front. 10+ inches of travel with 2 xj leaf packs put together and a 1.5inch lift shackle I am getting 10inche travel shocks for myself for christmas so I can actually use this articulation. I am also running 235s. You are deffinately going to want longer bumpstops in the rear because I just bent(slightly) the drivers side leafs. I can completely stuff the tires right now and not rub at all with no cutting at all. I am planning to go to 31s and cut out a ton to run them with as much articulation as possible. On the front I would get adjustable controll arms and dial them in real good with a full 3inch lift spring no coil spacers(horrible). I've got re 4.5inch lift springs in the mail to replace the 2inch spacer and zj spring and going to keep the back at 3inches. Also if you want to maximize your near stock xj lock it. my dana35 is locked and it is just embarressing how many places my rig on 235s will go that my friend's yj on 33s wont. I am locking the front come the end of december too so...should get gnarly.
 
The pics at night are all with the stock shocks, I had the up country package, so I am not sure if it came with longer travel shocks. Im guessing it did because it was significantly higher than the average XJ. The lower pics are with RE extreme duty monotubes that are meant to be used with their 3.5 inch lift. They definitely added alot of flex, and when I popped my fender flares off and trimmed a tiny little bit of metal in front and back of the tires, I was able to stuff 31x10.50 claws with no rubbing at all. Some people just dont like having to take their bumper endcaps and fender flares off everytime they go wheeling. You could just leave them off if you want. I was extremely happy with that setup(my current one) And here are some pics. The only thing I would want beyond that setup would be a rear locker. It went over some pretty crazy stuff. Including all the trails at RORP, and everything I went on at Badlands(I just dont remember the names) Here are some pics of the current setup. The rear tires stuff right inside of the top of the fender. All the stock fender/bumper pieces still attatch with EVERY stock mounting hole. Nothing was affected as far as mounting anything, and when the stock trim pieces are put back on, it is nearly impossible to tell there was any trimming done. Rims are 15x8 with 3.75"BS. This is only a budget boost, I think this is about the limit you could go with just a 2 inch lift. Maybe adding lockers, but the issues that I have run into are ones of ground clearance, not neccisarily traction. Luckily I have T-case and gas tank skids, because my eyes tend to be bigger than my vehicles ability!

Heres the trimming I did on the front(right behind the front tire)
atticatrip124.jpg


Here are the pics of the rear trimming, front, then back.
atticatrip125.jpg

atticatrip126.jpg


Here is a side shot
atticatrip122.jpg


Here are some flex pics
atticatrip16.jpg

RORPtrip2pic10.jpg

RORPtrip2pic14.jpg
 
90whitexj, I tried to PM you but it wouldnt let me. Yes I made it up that hill, I also had to floor it a little, because I got high centered, I made it though.
 
With spacers and longer shackles, swaybars removed, it is super easy to completely stuff the 235's, and with proper length shocks i could easily get a few more inches of droop from this setup
one thing that you need to think about is what kind of breakover angle does the tyope of wheling you do require, that is the one thing i wish i had in my setup was a better breakover angle, approach and departure are fine for the kind of mild wheeling i do



october-ure12.jpg
 
All this helps alot, but I was wondering if you can go beyond "completely stuffed" via reworking the suspension. I was thinking about moving the front and rear axles foreward, the rear more than the front, in order to improve aproach and breakover angle, and then stuff the rear end up(or shorten it) to improve exit angles.

While I'm busy reinventing the wheel :) , I was wondering about moving the shackle to the front of the spring, and moving the front mounting point upwards and the rear mounting point downwards. If done right, this should eliminate stresses on the slip yoke and allow it to be used in conjunction with a 5" lift.
Same sort of thing in the front, just readjusting angles and heights of the control arms and track bar, along with sliding the body spring perches and bumpstops foreward and up to allow for further "stuffing" of the wheels into the fenders.

All of this is completely pointless until I get 32's sometime after christmas, but I like to think things out before putting then into action
Thanks for your input
 
Ill tell you this right now. My 31s stuff as far into the fenders as you can stuff them. Unless you cut out the entire inside of the fender, at the top and on the sides. It is just not possible to put a tire FARTHER inside of the fender, unless there is a magical space where the tires are going to go!!! I was trying to help you out by showing you the limits of what can be done with a semi stock unibody. Once you try to cut out the insides of the fenders, youll realize that you are going to absolutely ruin the structure of the vehicle. Believe me, if it was possible someone would have done it. Oh, and lowering the front of the leafs, and raising the rears, isnt going to do much except make your leafs bend in weird directions. In fact, I think it may do the reverse of what you want. Thats why people use degree shims, to point the ring gear up towards the T-case, correct? Tell me if im wrong. I am guessing the last thing you want to do is point the ring gear towards the ground, by lowering the front of the leafs. That whole approach just seems wrong to me, and is the reason why the shackles are in the back to begin with(and are in the front on a vehicle that has leafs in the front)
 
Im still perplexed by this. Why would you think that moving the shackle to the front would allow you to put a bigger tire in the wheel well. If you keep a stock shackle in the back, the leafs mount inside of the rear bumper, and the only way to possibly get a better departure angle is to lift the vehicle(like you DONT want to do) And a 5" lift is a 5" lift, putting taller springs on, but raising their mounts doesnt lift the vehicle at all, it just allows you to not use all the suspension you have available. Unless you completely hollow out the inside of the fenders! Have fun doing that, and Id love to see the pics.
 
I am not sure If I understand what is being asked here. If you move the rear axle forward, it will stuff the tire into the rear of the rear doors. This is the part of the xj that is keeping me on 35's right now. To get a better departure angle, and more room for tires you would want to move the rear axle back(the back of the fender well would be easier to open up than the door). As far as flex in the front, after good after market arms, the thing that limits travel is shock length. The top mount would be hard to raise, but maybe drop the lower mount even with the control arm mount on the axle for a little longer shock. Other than that I dont know how to get more flex with out more room(lift) for longer shocks.
 
Atl-Atl said:
Here are some flex pics
atticatrip16.jpg
<hijack> What backspacing you runnin? </hijack>
 
Atl-Atl said:
Im still perplexed by this. Why would you think that moving the shackle to the front would allow you to put a bigger tire in the wheel well. If you keep a stock shackle in the back, the leafs mount inside of the rear bumper, and the only way to possibly get a better departure angle is to lift the vehicle(like you DONT want to do) And a 5" lift is a 5" lift, putting taller springs on, but raising their mounts doesnt lift the vehicle at all, it just allows you to not use all the suspension you have available. Unless you completely hollow out the inside of the fenders! Have fun doing that, and Id love to see the pics.

I havent started yet (thankfully) so I don't have any pictures, I'm just digging through ideas. I have a two door so moving the rear tires foreward wouldn't be as much of a hassle. I am not sure of where the main part of the unobody is back there, so I'd have to be real carefull about doing this.

I thought over what I posted last night, and if the shackles were in front, the axle would move foreward, compacting the driveshaft into the transfer case, not what I want at all.

As for fender room, I was thinking about cutting the front fenders all the way to the top, the back the same height, and fabing up framework/flares at the top for support lost.

Something I forgot to post in my earlier posts, this setup would be used with full width axles front and rear, eventualy.

Just playing with ideas, nothing is set in stone and input is always apriciated.
 
I am totally confused on this post. You only want 2-3" of lift, you want a good aproach/departure angle, you want to shorten the wheelbase, you want to put full width axles on it. how do these even relate to eachother.
You can have all the flex you want, but when you drag that pumkin because you only have 31" tires, your gonna hate it. why is 101" wheelbase too long for you? most guys would like a little more wb. By moving the tires forward you will increase your departure angle. if your running a small lift and small tires why would you want full width axles?
I am no expert, but I have about 4" of lift and 34" tires. I have decent ground clearance, but would like more. I have hogged out the fenders and can probably go up a tire size or two. I could use a little more flex, but dont want it to get out of hand, with little flex, you always know what it is going to do. Known limitations are a good thing... $.02
 
Ludakris said:
I am totally confused on this post. You only want 2-3" of lift, you want a good aproach/departure angle, you want to shorten the wheelbase, you want to put full width axles on it. how do these even relate to eachother.
You can have all the flex you want, but when you drag that pumkin because you only have 31" tires, your gonna hate it. why is 101" wheelbase too long for you? most guys would like a little more wb. By moving the tires forward you will increase your departure angle. if your running a small lift and small tires why would you want full width axles?
I am no expert, but I have about 4" of lift and 34" tires. I have decent ground clearance, but would like more. I have hogged out the fenders and can probably go up a tire size or two. I could use a little more flex, but dont want it to get out of hand, with little flex, you always know what it is going to do. Known limitations are a good thing... $.02

These events aren't completely related, but each begat the other, I wanted about 3-4" of lift, but I only have a 6" that a friend gave me as a present. I only wanted to have marginaly better axles (siezed the D35 on the freeway yesterday), but all I have are full size axles, and lastly I don't want to get stuck in my back yard again because the two turning wheels are burried in mud and the other two are wedged in the fenders :soapbox:
Wants dont always =needs, so I want to work with what I have.
Thanks for the input
 
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