• NAXJA is having its 18th annual March Membership Drive!!!
    Everyone who joins or renews during March will be entered into a drawing!
    More Information - Join/Renew
  • Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Failed Chevy 1/2 Ton tie rod end!

Jeff 98XJ WI

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Butternut, WI
I know I posted this same inf. in the So Cal forum in response to someone going on about how great their new HD tie rod ends were, but I figured the rest of you might find it interesting too. I have a Dana 44 front end that I built a few years ago in the front of my XJ and when I built the steering, I used a TJ pitman arm reamed to fit the Chevy tie rod end stud. The drag link passes straight to the top of a high steer arm on the passengers side utilizing the other Chevy tie rod end. Recently while driving down a gravel road after a bit of wheeling, I lost all steering! Turns out the body of the tie rod at the pitman arm separated from the stud. This joint did not appear overly worn during recent greasing, so I think it simply broke. Anyway, here are the pics: http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEN2jZq0btnQA

I don't have a definative reason why it broke other than running at a bit of an angle for the past few years. In the past year or so I did lift the Jeep a bit further and added 35's and longer bump stops, so I am planning to go back to an XJ pitman arm reamed for the heavier tie rod end. This will drop the pitman arm end an inch and a half or so from the TJ arm. Just thought I would share and let you all know that shit happens...even to HD bullet proof parts. :( I'm just glad it didn't happen on the highway!!!!!!! Jeff
 
The wear marks on the shaft make me think that it was over extended until it was loose enough to pop out. Could that be the case?

I've broke several smaller TRE's that way. Putting the TRE end in a bind and it would roll the edges of the socket out until it would just pop out.

I also run safety washers on the heims I've been running for the same concern. Doesn't help if the bolt breaks though.
 
Ah ha, Grasshopper........you found out the hard way that checking for wear on the TRE at the pitman arm should be a part of regular maintenance. Be very thankful, young one, that you had good traveling karma and avoided injury.

:D




I run the stock XJ TRE at the pitman, but I've replaced it many times. It lasts OK if I keep the limiting strap short, but if I let it out to run the fast stuff that TRE can wear out in one good trip. I'm sure the bigger TRE would last longer, but if it's maxed out it will eventually give. On one Rubicon trip, a friend with a similar setup as yours (D44 hysteer with GM 1 ton TRE's) broke the same TRE at the pitman arm going up Cadillac Hill........scary!

Ever since then I have regularly checked that part for wear. It's easy, just have someone turn the wheel back and forth slightly while you look for any up and down movement in the TRE. I've never had one come apart. I always carry a spare, and I'm finally making a new drag link with a slight bend in it to keep from maxing out that TRE. BTW, I recently found that the Dana-Spicer part is much beefier than the Moog part, so that's what I'm using now and haven't worn it out yet....but it's only been on one trip.
 
Concerning being over extended, it certainly does not seem too bad sitting at normal ride height. I don't think my front end droops as much as some folks either, so I just can't believe it was running in an overextended position very often if ever. I went to a parts store and flexed a brand new unit to the max and it is damn steep! I just can't believe my joint was getting overextended. Also MR G, like I said, this joint did not exhibit looseness in the recent past. However, the other end of the tie rod did show some looseness within the past year and I replaced it. It almost seems like the inner cupped sleeve part was rubbing on the back side of the stud continuously wearing that groove in the stud. However, the sleeve nor the outer housing show wear at that point. It seems to me that with the passengers side drooped and trying to turn right, there must be quite a bit of pressure on that cupped sleeve part that isn't being covered by the outer body (because the joint is angled down quite a bit) and after repeated stress, the cupped sleeve broke. I'm theorizing that the edge of the outer piece (towards the threads) got chewed up during and right after the cupped sleeve breaking. Jeff
 
I added two fairly recent pics showing the angle of the drag link at rest. NO COMMENTS on the RUST. It sucks to live in SALT land like I do. Keep in mind that fairly recently, the whole front suspension, axle, tie rods, etc looked all nice and shiny black like that new 1.5" drag link! BTW, Goatman, thanks for referring to me as "Young one." To be called that while pushing 40 aint just too bad. :) Jeff

http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEN2jZq0btnUQ
 
Jeff, it looks like yours is at least at the same angle as mine, and maybe more angle, and mine gets maxed out. I think a good TRE should last awhile, but they still should be checked regularly, and maybe changed out every year no matter what. With the one that I saw break on the trail, yours, and mine needing regular replacement, I think that checking/changing them regularly is the safest thing to do.

Maybe it's time to just go to a rod end, but I kept the TRE because it appears to handle more angle. I'm counting on my new drag link with a slight bend resolving the issue.

pic of mine
standard.jpg

standard.jpg


pic of yours
F-EN2jZq0btnV4INuR3POQ
 
Just throwing this out.....you know there is a difference in a TRE and a Drag Link End?.....the DLE allows for much more movement. That may be what you had, couldn't tell from the picture. If it was a TRE I could see why it would pop out...
 
BIGWOODY said:
Just throwing this out.....you know there is a difference in a TRE and a Drag Link End?.....the DLE allows for much more movement. That may be what you had, couldn't tell from the picture. If it was a TRE I could see why it would pop out...



OK....you got me. What is the difference?

They sure look the same.......

:)
 
the shaft diameter on a chevy DRE is larger than a TRE and they are made to have more movement(droop) in a situation when mounted to the pitman arm. I used TRE's and DRE's from an 84 chevy blazer. I too was unaware there was any difference until my buddy (machinist, makes after market steering for lots of 4x4 resellers) showed me the difference. I used a TRE at the pitman arm on my first steering attempt, it too popped out...
 
Hey rich, could you post a close up of your steering and sway bar mounts on the left side. BillR and I are trying to work out high steer with the JKS 2" Sway Mounts. It's a tight fit, so we are trying to see how it works out.......... :wierd:
 
Jeff, gotta agree with not enough droop travel in the TRE for it to survive very long. You only have to bind them up tight a few times to stretch the joint out. I built my draglink with a slight bend at the top so the pitman TRE is nearly level and I have no bind at full droop, even running ES150 TRE's which are 1/2 ton Chevy/Ford units.

OTK steering
 
Last edited:
BIGWOODY said:
the shaft diameter on a chevy DRE is larger than a TRE and they are made to have more movement(droop) in a situation when mounted to the pitman arm. I used TRE's and DRE's from an 84 chevy blazer. I too was unaware there was any difference until my buddy (machinist, makes after market steering for lots of 4x4 resellers) showed me the difference. I used a TRE at the pitman arm on my first steering attempt, it too popped out...

Thankfully, I use the stock part, so it must be a DRE.....if that's what Jeep does. I've never checked it against the part number for the TRE's. I still can wear it out quickly......

I don't run the GM parts, so haven't checked those part numbers, but that is definitely something to check on for those who do.
 
As for the question of tie rod end or drag link end, Yes, what I am using is stock Chevy 1/2T-1T drag link ends. Yes, they have a much greater movement than most tie rod ends that I have seen. Part of the reason the joints move so much is because of the additional cupped piece (that broke on me) between the stud/ball and the outer body. Moog ES2026R and ES2027L are the part numbers. I added some pics of this joint and others I found on the web. Look at the broken tie rod end album again: http://share.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEN2jZq0btnYg

I had considered bending the drag link a bit to get flatter drag link ends, but there are a couple problems with this. First, a straight piece of metal is stronger than a bent one. Second, bending one end makes the other end run at more of an angle, so really, both ends should be bent. Third, 1.5" DOM tapped to 7/8-18 is going to be HARD to bend intentionally! Fourth, the tie rod ends themselves have kind of a long shaft/threaded area, and this makes for a shorter connecting shaft. Fourth, I would really like to keep the connecting shaft straight so that it can be turned to adjust the length of the drag link.

While surfing for some pics of the ES2026R joints, I came across this site: http://homepage.mac.com/rv6a/hi-steer.html

On the bottom portion of this page, it shows a new 1Ton drag link/tie rod setup to replace the older setup and the drag link ends have a large level change in them. I'm interested in them and what they came from. Jeff
 
My drag link connects to my tie rod , not the highsteer ar. I had a set up close to the one you have and had problems with the DRE at the high steer arm wearing out. I have had no problem at all with this set up (yes I realize mine is a hp60, but I ran the same set up on my 44 as well)

DSCF0119.jpg
 
Yeah, when the drag link attaches to the tie rod, rather than the knuckle, it allows much more movement on the tie rod/knuckle side of the drag link.

Jeff, you make good points about having a straight drag link......the reasons I've lived with mine the way it is and just check it (and replace it) often. I'm OK when I keep the limiting strap short for trail use, but when I let the strap out it wears out quickly. I'm going to try a slightly bent drag link and see what it does for me, and hope the steering wheel can be centered close enough.
 
91 Jeep Project said:
Hey rich, could you post a close up of your steering and sway bar mounts on the left side. BillR and I are trying to work out high steer with the JKS 2" Sway Mounts. It's a tight fit, so we are trying to see how it works out.......... :wierd:



This side?
standard.jpg


I did mine before Mark invented the JKS parts. Actually, now I don't run the sway bar anymore.......I've been able to add a good amount of stabilty with shock and spring tuning.
 
Just to add a little info on misalignment:
At 30 degrees, the Chevy DRE has by far the most misalignment of anything else that I have come across. I think my WJ DRE's are around 24 degrees, XJ DRE's are probably about the same.
The most I could get out of a reliable rod end setup was about 26 degrees. This required a $40+ 3/4 X 3/4 rod end with custom made 3/4 - 5/8" reducer bushings (the ones I gave you Richard).
The Chevy junk seems like the best & cheapest way to go.
Paul
 
Goatman said:
This side?
standard.jpg


I did mine before Mark invented the JKS parts. Actually, now I don't run the sway bar anymore.......I've been able to add a good amount of stabilty with shock and spring tuning.
Got a pic of the other side?
My driver's side will clear fine, but I don't see how to get a swaybar link to fit around a 1.5" DOM draglink and tie rod.
Tell me more about shock tuning/no swaybar... :repair:
 
BillR said:
Got a pic of the other side?
My driver's side will clear fine, but I don't see how to get a swaybar link to fit around a 1.5" DOM draglink and tie rod.
Tell me more about shock tuning/no swaybar... :repair:

Ok....the right side. :)

standard.jpg

standard.jpg

standard.jpg



BillR said:
Tell me more about shock tuning/no swaybar... :repair:

Well, with stiff enough springs and shock valving it handles well enough to be comfortable without a sway bar. Much of the sway bar/no sway bar debates really come down to how stiff the persons suspension is. The rear really makes a difference, probably more than the front. Those with reasonably stiff front coils that have stiff BOR rear springs, or packs with a number of add-a-leaves in them, usually are fine with no sway bar. (this is JMHO, based on many observations)

I was always much more comfortable with one because I ran squishy rear springs, and it would sway and lean in corners without the sway bar. When I ran RS9000's on the rear, if I left them set on 5 (high) it was OK without the sway bar, but if I set them on 3, which was much more comfortable, then I needed the sway bar.

When I got the Sway-A-Ways they were valved a little soft, and to not be harsh at all. This made it where I wanted to run the sway bar. Revalving the rear shocks stiffer was a big improvemnt, and it was close to OK without the sway bar. I just changed front springs from the RE 4.5 ZJ coils to 8" Skyjacker coils with one complete coil cut off. This really did the trick, and my rig is much more stable and the sway bar is not needed. The front shocks are still the softer valving, and I need to run it off road a little to decide if I want to stiffen them up like I did the rears.
 
Back
Top