Coils on all four corners

i was toyin with the idea to go coils on all four corners. has anyone here done this, or know of any links.

Thanks

kenny

I think rockcrawler makes a kit to convert the rear to coils. They've got a web-site, with pictures on it.

i think tera flex makes a kit?

do a search its been covered alot
Led

rockkrawler makes a coilover conversion not just a regular coil conversion

MyBlackJeep said:

i was toyin with the idea to go coils on all four corners. has anyone here done this, or know of any links.

Thanks

kenny

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Talk to Lincoln, he made one. He complains about it and hardly ever wheels.




FlexyXJ has the Rockcrawler rear coilover kit, and it's nicely done and works well. I'm not a fan of rear coils in an XJ, but that kit seems to work.

IMO go for coilovers if you getting into that type of fab work, or go straight for the Ashman Hydraulic ram suspention...

I wouldnt bother. Half of the guys i know running TJ's and ZJ's wish that they had rear leaves. The problem with a flexy rear coil suspension is stability. Ive walked over some off camber spots in my XJ on 10" of lift that some ZJ's on 6" almost flopped on. IMHO the leaves out back really add to the suspension's predictability. Hopefully Nate chimes in here soon, as he's a ZJ owner who feels the same IIRC.

Search under "4 link"

thanks guys

im gonna 4 link it and coilover soon enough. im up at school right now but but once i get out im gonna be workin at a fab shop. i may just keep the leafs for now and throw in some LA's. that usually works well.

kenny

LED, Whats your thoughts on the D&C kit? I got a friend who is on the fence about buying this kit. I have looked at your old setup quite a bit. Any regrets? anything you would do different now?

Anyone else running a kit from D&C? or was there only one sold?

ArcticXJ said:

I wouldnt bother. Half of the guys i know running TJ's and ZJ's wish that they had rear leaves. The problem with a flexy rear coil suspension is stability. Ive walked over some off camber spots in my XJ on 10" of lift that some ZJ's on 6" almost flopped on. IMHO the leaves out back really add to the suspension's predictability. Hopefully Nate chimes in here soon, as he's a ZJ owner who feels the same IIRC.

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thats what limiting straps are for :laugh3:

ArcticXJ said:

I wouldnt bother. Half of the guys i know running TJ's and ZJ's wish that they had rear leaves. The problem with a flexy rear coil suspension is stability. Ive walked over some off camber spots in my XJ on 10" of lift that some ZJ's on 6" almost flopped on. IMHO the leaves out back really add to the suspension's predictability. Hopefully Nate chimes in here soon, as he's a ZJ owner who feels the same IIRC.

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Don't know what trails you are running but this is Bass Ackwards from what I have seen..XJs with soft rear springs...Stable....XJs with stiff rear springs....Very unstable.
The TJ guys that have problems are mostly the guys that don't run swaybars on the front...They seem to think that unhooking the sway bar in the front and leaving the one in back is good....Talk to the guys running an Anti-Rock and see what they say..
If the front of your rig....Don't matter what it is....Is too much softer then the front when you go down an off camber hill the downhill front spring tends to compress and unload the uphill side...If you have way stiffer springs in the rear they won't compress the opposite way and you get a rear end that wants to pass you going down the hill....If you have a soft rear end then it will compress oposite the front and keep wheels on the ground....Hence keeping the body more level and your COG more where it should be.

I for one think if you had coils on the back and kept your suspension as balanced as possable you would find that it works much better on the trails then stiff rear leafs...
The idea that the leafs make it more stable just isn't true.

DrMoab said:

Don't know what trails you are running but this is Bass Ackwards from what I have seen..XJs with soft rear springs...Stable....XJs with stiff rear springs....Very unstable.
The TJ guys that have problems are mostly the guys that don't run swaybars on the front...They seem to think that unhooking the sway bar in the front and leaving the one in back is good....Talk to the guys running an Anti-Rock and see what they say..
If the front of your rig....Don't matter what it is....Is too much softer then the front when you go down an off camber hill the downhill front spring tends to compress and unload the uphill side...If you have way stiffer springs in the rear they won't compress the opposite way and you get a rear end that wants to pass you going down the hill....If you have a soft rear end then it will compress oposite the front and keep wheels on the ground....Hence keeping the body more level and your COG more where it should be.

I for one think if you had coils on the back and kept your suspension as balanced as possable you would find that it works much better on the trails then stiff rear leafs...
The idea that the leafs make it more stable just isn't true.

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I have to disagree. I understand that stiff rear leaves can be a problem, but the problem isn't really instability, it just leans more because the rear doesn't stuff well. Even with some extra leaning, it's what can still be considered stable. Instability is when there is too much sway, the suspension handles loosely, tends to unload and is somewhat unpredictable. Rear leaf springs, without Revolver type shackles, are generally very good at maintaining stability. Four coil suspensions need sway bars to maintain stability. I've seen all leaf spring rigs with revolver type shackles on all corners that were exceptionally unstable.

Front coil/rear leaf rigs with real stiff leaf springs can lean more than a balanced rig, but they don't sway and are predictable. I know guys with four coil rigs that are scary to drive very fast because they are so unstable. A front coil rear leaf suspension has many positive attributes, especially if the spring rates are balanced.

Goatman said:

Front coil/rear leaf rigs with real stiff leaf springs can lean more than a balanced rig, but they don't sway and are predictable. I know guys with four coil rigs that are scary to drive very fast because they are so unstable. A front coil rear leaf suspension has many positive attributes, especially if the spring rates are balanced.

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I had a set of very very stiff Big off road springs(Sorry John John) on my rig and it was sooo unstable...I took them off and went with a set of homebuilt 11 leaf packs on that were really really soft and the stability was ten times what it was with the Big 8s on.
I agree that springs that fully unload like coils with no sway bars or Coilovers can lead to a very unstable rig but You have to have a balance too. If you front springs are too soft and your rear ones are too stiff you will have an instabiliy problem...I have lived it I know. At the same time I have a good friend with a TJ and he used to run with no sway bar on the front and had the same issue...I still think it had to do alot with the fact that he was running the stock sway bar on the rear and nothing on the front.
Once he put an anti-rock bar on the front though it made all the difference. Now his rig is as stable as my old YJ was and it was the most stable rig I have owned.
I don't disagree that you can't make a balanced rig out of leafs and coils but I think it is very important to have it balanced well.

IMO, all coils, or all coilovers is always going to be the best. IF the system is well designed in regards to spring-rate, swaybars, anti-squat, roll-center, etc.

Leafs are kinda "dummy proof" (yes, that's why I have leafs up front :laugh3: ).

One day I will link the rear of my MJ with 1/4 elip or captured coils and leave the front leafs. The (easy to accomplish) stability of leafs is great, and the flex and axle control of links is great.

DrMoab said:

I had a set of very very stiff Big off road springs(Sorry John John) on my rig and it was sooo unstable...I took them off and went with a set of homebuilt 11 leaf packs on that were really really soft and the stability was ten times what it was with the Big 8s on.
I agree that springs that fully unload like coils with no sway bars or Coilovers can lead to a very unstable rig but You have to have a balance too. If you front springs are too soft and your rear ones are too stiff you will have an instabiliy problem...I have lived it I know. At the same time I have a good friend with a TJ and he used to run with no sway bar on the front and had the same issue...I still think it had to do alot with the fact that he was running the stock sway bar on the rear and nothing on the front.
Once he put an anti-rock bar on the front though it made all the difference. Now his rig is as stable as my old YJ was and it was the most stable rig I have owned.
I don't disagree that you can't make a balanced rig out of leafs and coils but I think it is very important to have it balanced well.

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Here's what I'm questioning.....and I think it could be semantics. I could be wrong, but this is what I think. You are using the term stability to refer to how the rig leans through various trail obstacles. I am using the term stability to refer to unwanted swaying, pitching, and suspension unloading, basically what can make a suspension unpredictable.

Stiff leaf springs in the rear are good at minimizing sway and unloading. What they do is cause the rig to lean much more when a rear tire is high because the body more closely follows the rear axle, side to side. This is simply leaning, not instability, and the stiff rear usually keeps the body from pitching into the down wheel. If the front drops off a big ledge or into a big hole, but the rear is nearly level, the body will stay nearly level and let the front drop out without much pitching.......this is stability.

With a more balanced suspension, if a rear tire is high, it will stuff and the body will stay more level. This is more comfortable, but isn't necessarily more stable. With softer rear springs, if a front tire drops off, the body will lean more than it would with the stiffer rear springs. If the softer springs allow the rig to sway uncomfortably to the down side, or allow the rig to pitch to the down side as the tire drops off, this is instability.

I've seen rigs so unstable that they couldn't climb fairly simple obstacles that pitched them sideways, even bouncing to the down side of a slightly off camber climb. Rigs with stiff rear suspensions usually do pretty well in these kind of situations, controlling the pitching much better and holding the rear stable while the front follows the line.

I've wheeled with plenty of rigs with the stiff Big Offroad rear leaves, and seen how they act. They do lean more in certian situations, but overall are pretty stable. My rig is very balanced front to rear, but I've had to deal with some instability problems because it flexed so much. I've dialed back the articulation and changed shock mounts to increase the stability. I've always considered rigs with the stiff rears to be a little more stable, even though they did lean more in some situations.

Here's a couple of pics showing one rig with the BO rear leaves and my rig on the same obstacle. You can see that the other rig is leaning and has a tire way in the air, and mine is more level. Looking at how the body is lined up with the rear axle tells the story.

stiff rears
more balanced

Sometimes the excess leaning is more uncomfortable, sometimes the pitching and swaying are more uncomfortable. The goal is a balanced suspension that also has good stability......but they don't necessarily go together, unless well designed.

In pure form, the front coil/rear leaf suspension will be more stable than a four coil suspension. The four coil needs sway bars to do the same thing. You don't see XJ's lifting front tires under a torque load like you can on TJ's......again, because of more stability.

Anyway, I don't disagree with your points, just that you're using stability to describe it.

pretty much owned the thread with those pictures. cant argue with goatman, hell he even used props

OK so does anyone besides LED have any real world experience with rear coils? I want to hear from someone that has them on there own ride. I would really like to know if someone has them and still drives it on the street, even to and from the trail. I'm starting to look at rear coils for a new project that I just picked up myself. But if I can get my buddie to buck up then I can actually drive the damn thing myself and make the call. I still like the simplicity of leafs in the rear. I have had a stiff rear setup and really dont want to go back there again. I have a brand new pair of Big O 6" springs that I can use for my new project but I'm wondering if there going to be to stiff. I know its probably not recomended but what about pulling 1 leaf out of the pack to try and loosen them up? Just a thought.