Is Wal-mart Good For America? (Frontline)

[ACE]

So I was watching Frontline on pbs this evening and this was the topic. My wife gets some groceries, toiletries and over the counter medicine at Wal-mart and I get things there as well.
I am very familiar with Wal-marts tactics as I have family in the retail food industry that competes directly with Wal-mart. In fact, my sister-in-law is a buyer for Albertsons that goes head to head with her counterpart at Wal-mart almost daily.
Up to this point I've always believed that competition is good. Maybe not immediately noticable but eventually, good for everyone. This is why I really haven't thought too much about where I shop for the cheapest price.
This show has made me put a little more thought into it.
The point in the show that made me start thinking was when they pointed out that Wal-mart buys so much from China that they are considered a joint venture with China. It's one thing to buy retail goods from China but an entirely different scenario when you've got your hands in the pocket of the worlds largest manufacturing force and their government.
I found out the best paid manufacturing workers in China make about $100 a month. Most make half that. I found out that Wal-mart is the richest company on the planet but has among the lowest wages and pays out the least amount for health benefits when compared to percent of salary.
I don't know. I guess many large companies work in the same way.
I like going to my small town local grocer as well as my local ACE Hardware store but it's going to be hard to adapt to paying 14.00 for that can of 3M Spray Epoxy that I could get at Wal-mart for 7.89.
If anyone gets a chance, check out the show next time it airs. I think it does a good job of showing both sides.
What do you guys think?

[bocaj]

south park also had a show on wal mart. i think south park showed their point well. i dont go to walmart anymore i go to kmart. not to many local stores round here

[hackedxj]

The answer is NO! ,It's a Chineese fleamarket. Stop going there years ago, Started out with there commercials about helping American companies, now they've put them of put of business, just my thoughts

[Captain Ron]

Don't even get me started.

--ron

[Beezil]

walmart is a force that must be destroyed. It is an evil beast.

AOL users shop at walmart, to acquire the aerosmith albumns they were hoping would reach $6.99........only to discover the multi-colered, flourescent zebra fish offer a better bang for the buck.

your patriotism may vary

[8Mud]

Over here they use a different tactic, they make artificial shortages and sell half as much for twice the price. Common tactic here in Germany, most every retailer and manufacutrer does it, including Daimler/Chrysler. They are also really big on monopolies.
Since Wal- Mart opened up there stores here, competition, volumn sales and other, not so bad competitive tactics have been growing.
What really ticks me off, is the Germans importing American products, basically designed to be mid price, volumn items and selling them for premium prices. Oregon chain saw, chains, usually marketed to be throw aways instead of sharpened are like marked up 300% here.
Jeep is pretty much the same way, new they sell for just about double, what you can buy one for in the states. Priced as an exotic import. Parts are triple.

[Yucca-Man]

Let's see...the store where you can buy a gallon of mayonnaise, snow tires, lingerie, and a computer all at the same time? Is that convenience, or is it dumbed-down purchasing? At many of the stores where they're trying to take over the market, you can also buy a mega-huge jug o'pickles...

Happy reading: http://www.yuccaman.com/jim/walmart.html

[Gridikal]

(in my best The Water Boy mom's voice)...Dat Wal-nut is da Devil!!

[RichP]

I rarely buy at walmart, Mobil-1 oil is the main thing at walmart or sams club. I too would rather patronize local businesses but like I said before in another thread the local businesses like napa, cramers lumber, etc. keep friggin bankers hours, walmart, home depot, stores like that don't. So I end up driving 30-40 min to get what I need on a given day because when I get back in my home area the local places have already rolled up their tents, closed the gates and gone home for the nite. Already had this conversation with one of the local lumber yard owners, told him your hours tell me that you don't want my business, you want all the local contractors between 8am and 4:45pm, thats annoying but OK, just dont whine to me about the big gorilla stores driving you out of business, you have a local audience but if your closed you don't sell squat and just drive that local business to the big stores. When I worked in a sporting goods store we made all our money on fish hooks, bobbers, spinners, ammo, targets, etc, NOT big ticket items, it's no different in hardware.
But I will say one thing, when you NEED that 'something' on a sunday afternoon and the local store owners are home watching the ball game you don't have much choice...and after a while you forget about the local places. I've not been in a local napa store in a few years, they are not even in my thoughts when I need a part, they are 8am-4pm and just want the local repair shops, OK, dont whine about AA or AZ taking your business then because they are open till 9pm mon-fri and till 5 on sundays...and you're NOT.
I can't count the times I've gone out of here on a sunday nite at 9pm on a local service call to fix a system or go pick it up, bring it back and work on it for a few hours to get it back to the customer by 8 or 9am the next day. I'm restoring a brand new HP laptop as I'm typing, virus and worms, HP wanted a fortune + shipping and a credit card, I'm a bargain at 2 hours labor and when I'm done with it it'll run better than when the customer pulled it out of it's box 2 months ago. Lets see one of the big gorilla companies try to match THAT :chef:
I try my hardest to visit every business customer I have once a week, just for 5 minutes and it works wonders.
Had a boss of mine tell me a long time ago, ' When it comes right down to it, the customer writes your paycheck, so you better make them willing to do it'.

[GSequoia]

That is one thing I love about my area. Wal-Mart tries it's hardest to break into the Los Angeles market and keeps getting beat back, most cities they've tried to plant a store in have refused to allow them, and have been backed up by the votors.

Myself the only time I'll do Wal-Mart is in dire situations, such as being on your way to the trail and realizing that you forgot your sleeping bag at home a hundred miles away!

Sequoia

[seanR]

Wal-Mart has done more to destroy the American economy than any thing else!

[ZmOz]

There aren't any walmarts around here...

[ACE]

That is one thing I love about my area. Wal-Mart tries it's hardest to break into the Los Angeles market and keeps getting beat back, most cities they've tried to plant a store in have refused to allow them, and have been backed up by the votors.

Myself the only time I'll do Wal-Mart is in dire situations, such as being on your way to the trail and realizing that you forgot your sleeping bag at home a hundred miles away!

Sequoia

You know, there was a short 30 min. program called Bigger Boxes right after the show that detailed how California residents have been able to deter the likes of Wal-mart, Lowes, Home Depot from building in certain neighborhoods through voter action. This, I believe, is the American way. We are going through the same thing in a neighboring town that is very family oriented where Wal-mart wants to put up a store. Just about everyone in the community is against the idea but we'll see what the city government says.

[Yucca-Man]

I too would rather patronize local businesses but like I said before in another thread the local businesses like napa, cramers lumber, etc. keep friggin bankers hours, walmart, home depot, stores like that don't.I've seen that with several Wal-Marts near here. They open up with 24 hour "service" in order to drive the local Target/K-Mart out of town. Once they've got their way, they reorganize to shorter hours. They pull the same stunt with cities that make the mistake of giving them tax breaks to lure busuness. Once Wal-Mart has wrung them for all they can, Corporate decides the store or distribution center isn't worth the time, and pull out. That leaves a massive empty building that very few companies are able or willing to take over.

[Bloose]

They pay crap, treat their employee's like crap (require them to start early and stay late for no pay) and in many cases sell crap. You could argue that the employee's could work elsewhere but remember that Wallmart is the largest employer in the US! In many cases people must work at Wallmart or not work, especially once the smaller places have closed down. They have illegally blocked union orginization, hire illegals to clean etc etc. They do not offer insurance to many of their employee's but instead help them get government assistance.

Another argument could be that all retail stores are carrying Chinese made goods nowadays. But Wallmart has been part of the big push towards this so that they could increase profits.

If you ask me Wallmart is not any good for the US. But until people wake up there is little that can be done. To me this is all very much like back in the 80's when the auto industry met with so much foreign competition. We're still paying for it and there is no end in sight. Problem is, people only care if it has a direct impact on them. They can't see the big picture. There is no question that competition is good. But when a place starts pulling others around them out where is their competition? People say it is good for them because they are not making enough money to pay more elsewhere, but they never stop to think why they are either un or underemployed. By supporting American made products you are likely to be supporting yourself in the long run.

Just my .02

[Fergie]

HEre in town they just passed a "Big Box" ordnance to prevent stores like Super Wal-Marts and such.

My wife and I refuse to shop at Wally World and try to get others to do so. Occasionally, we will go there to buy Henry Weinhardts Black Cherry Cream Soda, but that is it!

Plus, having the highest grossing per square foot Wal-Mart in the country, coupled with the proximity of the Navajo Rez, just driving by makes supider.

If you guys ever get the chance, do some reading on W. Edwards Deming and his ideas and 14 rules.

Fergie

[ChiXJeff]

As a general rule, I also stay out of Wally World as much as possible.

However.....this just in. General Francissimo Franco is still dead.

KMart to buy Sears (http://www.cnn.com/money/2004/11/17/news/fortune500/sears_kmart/index.htm?cnn=yes)

[Yucca-Man]

KMart to buy SearsMan....that is disturbing down to the core! :gag:

[dmillion]

I think it's funny when people say things like "nobody in our town wanted a Wal-Mart so we voted to keep them out."

NEWS FLASH!!!!! Wal-Mart is a BUSINESS! They won't build a store in a town if they know that no one is going to buy from them. What's more, if they ever did, the store would quickly go out of business and be gone!

The reason people vote to keep Wal-Mart out is because they know that lots of their neighbors WILL go and shop at Wal-Mart, and they don't want to allow their neighbors that option. That really sounds like the American way, doesn't it?

[Geepfreak]

But I don't want to buy my Craftsman from K-mart. I boycotted K-mart for the last 8 years. Hate to think I have to go there for tools A.K.A. Martha Stewart!http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/Articles/Dispatches/P100792.asp?GT1=5809

My wife loves Wally world, and I have a couple of freinds that work there, but I try not to go there. For alot of things I will pay a little higher price at the mom and pop, over the big guys!

[Ronbo]

The reason people vote to keep Wal-Mart out is because they know that lots of their neighbors WILL go and shop at Wal-Mart, and they don't want to allow their neighbors that option. That really sounds like the American way, doesn't it?

Unfortunately, that's not the entire story.
Walmart finds a friendly location for a store. In the case of my town, the new store will be located here, but near the border of several other towns. Folks from the other towns will come to my town to shop. They cause traffic jams, pollution, damage to streets, increase in crime, increased load on the police and fire fighters, as well as other services. All of these expenses come from the pockets of my town.
Meanwhile, the tax revenue from the store is far lower than the costs the city pays to maintain this Walmart location.
I don't remember the actual $$ numbers, but they were available to the voters, prior to the election. Our town voted 'No' to this Walmart.
I'm sure folks from the other towns wouldn't mind, because they won't shoulder any of the costs. And since it's our town, we get to vote on the issue. Doesn't get any more American than that! :)

[bchulett]

ACE,

I intended to watch the program on Frontline but missed it. Wal-Mart represents approximately 10% of the retail sales in America and our government uses them as a barometer to gauge our economic health.

Although I haven't seen the program yet, I've been keeping a close eye on their tactics. Wal-Mart has pretty much taken the upper hand over their suppliers and demanding where they manufacture products---namely in China.

Recently, Mattel made a move against Wal-mart ... announcing, they are manufacturing a line of toys that will be distributed and available only at Toys "R" Us. See report: The Motley Fool (http://www.fool.com/News/mft/2004/mft04111219.htm?source=eptyholnk303100&logvisit=y&npu=y)

Aside from forcing the manufacture and purchasing products from China, one major issue is due to the non-Union status at Wal-Mart.... which provides an unfair advantage against competitors that are strapped with Union labor. Although this is primarily due to their legacy, those Union based jobs will slowly dry up through the use of technology ....

And with the imminent threat of higher paying administrative type jobs (IT/HR/Accounting) being outsouced to India ... there will only be a handful of professions to make a decent living in America---the economy could very well implode if the trend continues.


Boycott them like Mattel and others are doing.


So I was watching Frontline on pbs this evening and this was the topic. My wife gets some groceries, toiletries and over the counter medicine at Wal-mart and I get things there as well.

I am very familiar with Wal-marts tactics as I have family in the retail food industry that competes directly with Wal-mart. In fact, my sister-in-law is a buyer for Albertsons that goes head to head with her counterpart at Wal-mart almost daily...

I found out that Wal-mart is the richest company on the planet but has among the lowest wages and pays out the least amount for health benefits when compared to percent of salary.

What do you guys think?

[dmillion]

Meanwhile, the tax revenue from the store is far lower than the costs the city pays to maintain this Walmart location.


Then your town needs to raise the taxes on this kind of facility.

I would also say that I suspect your situation is somewhat unusual. For example, I live in Denver. Boulder voted a year or two ago to keep Wal-Mart out. Not because people from neighboring towns would come, it was going to be right in the middle of the town anyway! They just didn't want to allow their neighbors to have the option of shopping at Wal-Mart. Tyranny in action. But then, that's why folks from the rest of Colorado refer to it as "The People's Republic of Boulder."

[Eagle]

Another vote on the "Wal-Mart is evil" side of the tally sheet. Everywhere they go, Wal-Mart kills local retailers (and even regional retailers -- since Wal-Wart hit New England we've lost Caldor, Ames, Bradlees, and a very high percentage of KMarts) and sells junk. I admit to shopping there, but until the Target opens in the next town sometime in the Spring of 2005 I effectively have no remaining alternative.

Just to show how pervasive Wal-Mart is, recently I noticed in their sporting goods department a blister-packed folding knife, with the Winchester logo on the package. Hmmm ... interesting. Turn over the package, only to find that it's made in China exclusively for Wal-Mart. So they have even corrupted (or co-opted, not sure which is the appropriate term) Winchester.

There is almost nothing sold in Wal-Mart that isn't manufactured in some third world country by underpaid labor. Bad ju-ju.

[Rev Den]

I do not shop Wal-Mart, I did not want one in the town I live, it has nothing to do with patriotism, unions, or driving the little guy out. My reason is far less nobel than any metioned so far, I can't stand the smell. The Wal-marts in this area attrack the great unwashed, the trailer trash from Joliet and Aurora the seem to be drawn to these places seem to think its just fine to walk on in after a week without a shower.


Sorry....not very PC...but thats the way it is. Check out a Wal-Mart in some little town, where that is all they have, and they smell much better.

Rev

[OT]

Wal Mart is here for a reason, because folks love a bargain. If you hate 'em, stay away. Myself, I actually like to save money, even if it means some poor Chinese schmuck only gets paid $600 a year. Even before Wal Mart, mom and pops charged too much for thier crap and WM helped weed out the crooks. Personally I don't care how they treat the employees, it's thier choice to work there and thier choice to stay.

What I find particularly amusing, is the fact that I have to stand in line for 20 minutes to check out, yet all I hear is how nobody goes there. I wish you all would come to my town and not go there. It would sure save me some time.

I guess it's kinda like how Brittany Spears sells 98 billion CDs, yet mysteriously, nobody seems to own one of them.

Some of you (you know who you are) are hypocrites. Stop trying to sound cool by joining in, and get your own opinion.

P.S. I shower daily.

[Rev Den]

I guess it's kinda like how Brittany Spears sells 98 billion CDs, yet mysteriously, nobody seems to own one of them.

I bought 1, before she was a ho.


P.S. I shower daily.

Live in a small town?


Rev

[OT]

I bought 1, before she was a ho.



Live in a small town?


Rev
One flashing red light.

[red91]

One flashing red light.


and its usually followed by one flashing blue light in your rear view mirror. :)

[8Mud]

A little off topic, but relavent, the PX at one time was the 7 th largest retailer in the world. Taxpayer, paid for the building, shipping and utilities. A contractor, "The Army and Air Force Exchange System (AAFES) ran the stores (on a non competative contract for like a century, with a couple of name changes). The mark up was set by the military brass, used to be around 63%. Management was known for early retirements, million dollar houses and hauling stuff off by the truckload. Many of the prices, weren´t much of a saving over the local prices, most of the difference was the lack of sales tax. They figuered the relatively modest mark-up, not from item price, but from the procurement price (includes kickbacks), plus overhead (paychecks/shelving), plus pilferage (which was conciderable). Much of the cost price for an item (which drove it up to near unsubsidized levels) was/is fairly blatant corruption and a fairly management heavy set up.
Some really smart people set these things up. Consumer is going to be got, one way or the other.
Last I heard the boss at Mercedes was a Turkish, PHD. number cruncher (book keeper).

[bchulett]

Then your town needs to raise the taxes on this kind of facility.

The local municiples can't do that after the deal is done ... the local taxpayers couldn't afford the lawsuit.

This is similiar to our Indian gaming issue in California regarding state and local tax revenues, ... plus wanting to expand into other areas other than on their own designated land.

If Wal-Mart wants to expand into underdeveloped areas, they shouldn't expect taxpayers to flip the bill ...

I'll give up some for the Indians, ... but Wal-Mart is downright raping America and we're watching them do it.

[Eagle]

I'll give up some for the Indians, ... but Wal-Mart is downright raping America and we're helping them do it.
Fixed it for you

[OT]

Fixed it for you
I feel so violated.

Damn them for saving me money.

I hate it that my kids have twice as many clothes than they would if I had bought them anywhere else.

And, holy crap, I guess I should donate to charity, all the extra food I was able to afford.

[Matthew Currie]

I add my basic vote to the "hate Walmart" column, but it's an interesting dilemma for those who wish to keep them out, because, as dmillion points out, they're a business, and you can't outlaw a business by name, and nasty as they are, it's kind of unamerican to ride them out of town if they're not actually violating some laws. Unfortunately, many people will shop for the bargains and the cheap merchandise today even if it kills their jobs next year. Add to that that the big boxes are becoming the only game in town, and there's little you can do.

We've been shopping for a small microwave oven to replace one we expect to give to my stepson when he moves out. We went to all the local appliance retailers, and none even bother to carry small ones any more. They referred us to Home Depot, where you can get one for less than the other retailers pay wholesale. Even if we wanted to vote with our pocketbook for the mom and pop stores, we can't.

Vermont towns tried to keep Wal Mart out, but they failed, because Wal Mart simply opened smaller stores in existing retail spaces. You can't really say this space was legal for a Zayre or a K-Mart, but not for a Wal Mart of the same size. One thing you must grant Walmart is that they're as smart as they are evil.

Kay Bee toys has succumbed, and Toys R Us is on the way down. Now of course we hear that KMart and Sears have hooked their two sinking ships together, one more step toward the day when we'll have little choice but to shop there whether we like it or not. I hope Wal Mart's abandonment of the "demand side" of economics doesn't result in a working population so poor they can't afford to buy even the cheap plastic crap they're selling.

[Scott Mac.]

I do not shop Wal-Mart, I did not want one in the town I live, it has nothing to do with patriotism, unions, or driving the little guy out. My reason is far less nobel than any metioned so far, I can't stand the smell. The Wal-marts in this area attrack the great unwashed, the trailer trash from Joliet and Aurora the seem to be drawn to these places seem to think its just fine to walk on in after a week without a shower.


Sorry....not very PC...but thats the way it is. Check out a Wal-Mart in some little town, where that is all they have, and they smell much better.

Rev

When they opened the first Wal-mart in my part of town I was amazed at how powerful of a trailer trash magnet it was. I didn't think we had that many trailer parks in this part of the county. And this is in the northern limits of suburbia. If you walked into the Wal-mart down closer to the big city it's sickening to walk through it.

[dmillion]

I also get a good laugh out of the folks who say that Wal-Mart kills all the local businesses. Like, there's this band of armed Wal-Marters out wandering towns, kidnapping people and FORCING them to shop at Wal-Mart!

If local stores die when Wal-Mart comes in it is because YOUR neighbors (and probably YOU!) made a free-will DECISION to stop shopping at the local stores and start shopping at Wal-Mart!!! How does that make Wal-Mart evil!?!

By the way, I don't for one minute believe all these folks who say they never shop at Wal-Mart. Yeah, yeah, I know, it SOUNDS really hip to say that, but we all know perfectly well that when you want something cheap you go to Wal-Mart JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!

[red91]

how many posts for cheap *hit say "try Wally World." i.e. fog/driving lights...
etc...

There are a bunch of closet WALLY WORLD guys here...come out. It's O'Tay.

[imma honky]

We have two walmarts within 5 miles of each other and BOTH stay busy 24/7.... we also have a kmart(very trashy) and a target(nice and busy, but only open till 9). I shop there, but only for the stuff I need asap or for stuff I don't value. Most of the stuff there is cheap crap. I have several friends who worked there, busted their asses and quit b/c they weren't recognized and given that raise to get them over the 6/h mark.... I prefer to shop at local shops, but like stated before, they keep bankers hours. I work from 630-600 daily, THEN go to school until 8. How can I give these local shops my patronage if they won't stay open. PS, don't EVER take your vehicle to a walmart. A guy I worked with works in the auto dept. He has told me some terrible things and even said he wouldn't take any of his vehicles there.

[DrMoab]

I'm afraid I have to agree with Okie-Terry on this one. I shop there...I like a good deal. I don't buy the trash they sell either. If I want clothes or something else like that I go somewhere else. If I want Mobil 1 Oil however I know that they will have it cheaper then anywhere else and its not made in China. Same with the food. Same brands as everywhere else but way way cheaper...If the local store wants my buisness...sell it cheaper and I will go there.
I love how everyone is saying that Wal-Mart is only selling cheap Chinese junk. I see the same brands there as I do anywhere else. I know they have there own line of alot of things however they still sell most of what everyone else sells only cheaper.
We have this little idea here in this country called Capitalisim. I'm sure you all know what it means. In order to stay in buisness you have to compete with the rest of the buisneses out there.
Oh BTW I know Ace(who started this thread) shops there because its the only place I ever see him. :laugh3: :wave:

[Gil BullyKatz]

IKEA is owned and run by Swedish Satanists and all american proceeds go to the Church of Anton LaVey...


...or was it IHOP?










:firedevil

[bchulett]

Fixed it for you

Thanks, good observation... at this point I'm an American watching because I don't do business with them... we still have a choice in So. Cal.

By the way, I don't for one minute believe all these folks who say they never shop at Wal-Mart. Yeah, yeah, I know, it SOUNDS really hip to say that, but we all know perfectly well that when you want something cheap you go to Wal-Mart JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!

A close examination of my financial statment will show I've never purchased anything from WM ... but I have toured one of their mega L&D centers in central California. All I can say is the building was impressive, but a highly suppressive environment for the workers... I can understand how they get along with communists. I personally wouldn't seek employment with them or feed their FAT Walton pockets.

In essence this is history repeating itself. Similar to what K-mart did to Woolworth, Zody's and Gemco back in the 1960's... Wal-mart is doing to Sears and K-mart in the 2000's----now known as S-mart move.

[Yucca-Man]

If local stores die when Wal-Mart comes in it is because YOUR neighbors (and probably YOU!) made a free-will DECISION to stop shopping at the local stores and start shopping at Wal-Mart!!! How does that make Wal-Mart evil!?!

By the way, I don't for one minute believe all these folks who say they never shop at Wal-Mart. Yeah, yeah, I know, it SOUNDS really hip to say that, but we all know perfectly well that when you want something cheap you go to Wal-Mart JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE!Wal-Mart, like Microsoft, is an example of capitalism succeeding. However, they are succeeding to the point that their customers are on the brink of finding it difficult to shop anywhere else. Read the link I posted earlier if you'd like to learn how Wally World (and Sam's Club) help contribute to the economic downslide in many areas of the country.

To adddress your comment in the last paragraph, I used to shop at the W Mart, but next month I will be twelve months free of their clutches.

[Yucca-Man]

now known as S-mart move.Shop smart - Shop S-Mart!! One can only hope they'll name the new combined stores that way...
http://stuffthatisawesome.tripod.com//sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/s-mart_ash.jpg

[junkxj]

Does no one realize that what walmart is doing to the small stores has happened over and over. These small hardware stores put other general stores out of business decades ago. My great grandparents owned a small general store along time ago, and were put out of business by a "new" hardware store and grocery store. This has been happening since this country was founded, and people act like walmart is the first to use a competitve advantage to sell lower than there competators can. That is bussiness, nothing evil about it. I have heard that walmart does treat employees badly, but it could not be that bad, they are one of the biggest emplyoers in the country. If it was that bad why would all those people work there? How is it evil that they can sell stuff cheaper than others. I guess most people would say this is becaue of the "cheap slave labor"over seas.
This is not slave labor, and it could not be that bad because people work there out of free will. Just my 35 cents

[ACE]

Oh BTW I know Ace(who started this thread) shops there because its the only place I ever see him.

Yeah, that's where I see all my Jeepin buds. :wave: If not Wal-mart, I see 'em at Target (Mike, Bryon). :laugh3:
I'll continue to get certain things there and I'm sure my wife will still get some groceries there but now I can' help but think about the show on Frontline.
Remember that lawsuit last year brought by Five Rivers Electronic Innovations against China for selling their product lower than fair market value, i.e. dumping? Well, it turns out that Wal-mart sided with China in that lawsuit. Five Rivers won their lawsuit and higher duties were imposed on the imports.
That kinda gets my goat. That case was about CRT tubes. Come to find out that the tv's manufactured in China were selling less than what the Chinese were paying us for the glass used in those tv's. Can't compete with that.
Like I say, I've always believed the market will police itself and everyone will benefit from the competition. Now I wonder if the lowest prices are what we should be trying to attain considering what costs are at stake. Perhaps if Wal-mart would spread that wealth out a little more to it's workers, it would be enough.
I don't know. I know my portfolio contains Wal-mart stock in the form of mutual funds but I'm not sure how much. I know I'm not getting rich off of it.

[DrMoab]

Perhaps if Wal-mart would spread that wealth out a little more to it's workers, it would be enough.
.
Like someone else on this thread said....they chose to work there...If they don't like whats offered to them they can find another job.

I think that if Wal-mart was to disappear in todays world there would be someone following along right in their footsteps...Maybe even Target-K-mart=shopko ect ect.

[ACE]

I think that if Wal-mart was to disappear in todays world there would be someone following along right in their footsteps...Maybe even Target-K-mart=shopko ect ect.

That's true but doesn't necessarily make it right.

[DrMoab]

That's true but doesn't necessarily make it right.
I know I will get flamed for this but at least I am honest..The way I look at it is...what difference am I going to make whether I shop there or not...Have you looked at a Wal-Mart parking lot lately?
If we...as a group decided that NAXJA was boycotting walmart...so what. We wouldn't be getting good deals and it would be about as effective as a flea fart in a hurricane so...right or not I will still shop there...Maybe feeling alittle more guilt but shoping all the same.

[Geepfreak]

I know I will get flamed for this but at least I am honest..The way I look at it is...what difference am I going to make whether I shop there or not...Have you looked at a Wal-Mart parking lot lately?
If we...as a group decided that NAXJA was boycotting walmart...so what. We wouldn't be getting good deals and it would be about as effective as a flea fart in a hurricane so...right or not I will still shop there...Maybe feeling alittle more guilt but shoping all the same.

What he said!!!, maybe. got to think about it alittle longer.... I'll get back..

[bjoehandley]

I'll shop at Wal-Mart from time to time for things like magazines, oil (Mobil 1), model/rc painting supplies (masking tape, sand paper, some automotive paints), and the like. The only thing I normally buy at Target is CD's since Wal-Mart still sell edited music and Target doesn't, otherwise they're to expensive and don't have much of anything interesting. The K-Kart's that remain are a joke. I can't believe they could actually afford to buy Sears, that should be an insult to Sears exec's. As for hiring illegal's, they aren't the only one's who hire such cleaning companies, Toy's "R" Us did when I worked As did Jewel/Osco who are now owned by Albertson's but has been owned by American Stores aswell, there and were normally run by the illegal's fellow countrymen who are legal residents, not the store itself. I seem to remember Dad saying he'd have problems with the INS when they'd raid C&NW for illegals too and losing much of his maintence crews, so Wal-Mart isn't the only one to blame on that either. As for locking in employees TRU and Jewel/Osco have done that aswell and to be honest, with some of the people that wander this area after midnight, I was happy to have it happen when I'm in those situations. If Wal-Mart is like the afore mentioned stores I worked for, they'll have a manager with a key on duty and the firedoors work like normal. The only problem with that is for smokers who have "nic-fits" in the middle of the night during a work shift. That BS with Mattel is just that in my opinion, several years back Mattel sued TRU for insisting that they sell some items exclusively at TRU stores instead of spreading the product around to other retailers like Wal-Mart or they wouldn't carry as much of their product in the future, and now they're teaming up with TRU instead to combat Wal-Mart. Kinda like changing dance partners mid contest, isn't it?

[xjblue]

I found several points of that show very interesting....

First off that clip of former president {simpsons alien voice on} Clin ton {\simpsons alien voice off} opening trade with china so that we can sell our american goods to them. Hummm yeah right, thats why we did it, sure :laugh3: .

Second the rise and ultimate demise of Rubbermaid - they did fine for a while making a name for itself with quality product, but then came walmart so they won a bid to supply walmart and reached a new pinnicle of growth but then when resin prices went way up they wouldn't bow to Walmarts price demands any more, now they are on the outs.

Third that suit ACE just mentioned, Contrastingly they show that other 40 something year old French owned TV plant in a smallish USA town that had to shut down before the playing field was leveled by that case. Now a Walmart is about to be built next to that empty plant. the last remarks at the end of the program of a former employee at the closed plant summed it all up.

The same fight is going on in my town at a suburbia locked gravel/sand pit not a mile from home that has reached level ground and is closing down and Walmart has set it's sights on it. 2 1/2 miles due north is the closest Walmart with another one about 4 miles south by 2 miles west. I'd hate to see a big box parking lot there. The road through there is a good free flowing one right now. It skirts the gravel pit and doesn't have any neighborhood collectors - known as the ski connect road built to ease access to Snowbird and Alta around a busy close by shopping area where a Fred Meyer just closed down. It's pure irony they ("evil" developers and walmart) want to put a new busy shopping area so close to the exsisting one, on the road that was built to avoid just that....

[bchulett]

Shop smart - Shop S-Mart!! One can only hope they'll name the new combined stores that way...

LOL. That's funny Yucca... I was just being a S-mart ass trying to characterize the logic behind the merger. I hope it works out for the employees.

Good marketing jingle you got there ...


BTW ... toilet paper in America has never been the same since the Sears catalog. It was an end to a great era and hemorrhoidal tissues.

[dmillion]

Okay, I'll post one more story and then let this thread go...

Quite a few years ago I lived in North Carolina. This was back when K-Mart was big and getting bigger. A local radio talk-show was going off on the topic of how K-Mart was doing to small North Carolina towns what folks are accusing Wal-Mart of doing now. They were asking people to call in and talk to them about how evil K-Mart was and how it was ruining their towns (they didn't put it in those terms, but it was obvious that's what they wanted).

So this guy calls in and says, "I used to have a nice little hardware store in my town but K-Mart forced me out of business. Now I'm probably going to have to go on welfare because I can't figure out how to make a living."

"Tell me," the radio guy asks, "how did they force you out? Was it that you couldn't compete with their low-ball prices? You know they buy in much greater volume than most, and small stores just can't compete with that."

"No," the guy says, "it wasn't really that their prices were lower. It was mostly that they were open on the weekend. That's when people do their little home projects and K-Mart started getting all the business from people who didn't plan ahead and needed something last minute."

"I see", says the radio guy. "You're a Christian man and didn't believe in working on Sunday. That seems very reasonable to me."

"That, and I was also closed on Saturdays," says the guy.

"Oh. Well," asks the radio guy, "did you ever think about staying open on Saturday?"

With an EXTREMELY indignant tone in his voice, the guy answers, "Saturday is my FISHING day!"

Uh huh. Yeah. And K-Mart FORCED him out of business. Sure. The "evil" that Wal-Mart does (and K-Mart before them) is give people what they want at the price they want to pay. Ooh! That is just SOOOOO un-American!!!

(Sarcasm mode now off.)