Kerry Concedes

[Lawn Cher']

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_el_pr/eln_election_rdp

[BajaXJ92]

I'm just wondering how long it will be before Kerry retracts his concession....

"I actually decided to concede before I decided not to concede..."

:D

[Rev Den]

That is good......but....all I have to say is...


THANK YOU SOUTH DAKOTA!!!!!


Rev

[Eagle]

I'm just wondering how long it will be before Kerry retracts his concession....

"I actually decided to concede before I decided not to concede..."

:D
I wondered the same thing. It won't be a valid (and honest) concession unless and until he and the Dems call back the army of lawyers they have deployed across the country, AND withdrawn all their legal challanges and recount requests/demands.

[Blair Williams]

bah.

"whoever wins, we lose."

[Fergie]

bah.

"whoever wins, we lose."
Spoken like a true 17 year old.

Fergie

[DrMoab]

Spoken like a true 17 year old.

Fergie
DITTO!!!

[Darky]

I don't suppose its my 5 years worth of extra experiance over this kid, but I was able to figure out which way we lose...But then I figured that out in 2000 when it was Bush vs Gore. First, you don't vote for anyone associated with a lying, philandering ex-President, and second you don't vote for someone who selects a man with more experience making money at other people's expense than with governing...anything and who can't make up his mind on important issues such as national defense. Plus add onto that, he came out and admitted to a Congressional Hearing that he is a war criminal...All these people who say their vote doesn't matter or that they won't vote because they don't like either candidate need to wake up, do some research on the people and vote. I understand Blair is 17 and therefore unable to vote, but would he have if we were old enough? Probably not.

[Urban Redneck]

...but would he have if he were old enough? Probably not.

I think you're incorrect on that one...he would have voted Kerry.

[red91]

I think you're incorrect on that one...he would have voted Kerry.


I was thinking he'd vote the socialist party ticket...

[Urban Redneck]

I was thinking he'd vote the socialist party ticket...


Potheads for Nader? :wave:

[Glenn B]

Naw, the little kids are seeming to vote for Badnick (or whatever his name was).

Nothing wrong with feeling that way and voting that way..... but Sesame Street is old and busted.

[Fergie]

Potheads for Nader? :wave:
If they can remem...

[red91]

Potheads for Nader? :wave:
crack smokers for communism...

[Matthew Currie]

I wondered the same thing. It won't be a valid (and honest) concession unless and until he and the Dems call back the army of lawyers they have deployed across the country, AND withdrawn all their legal challanges and recount requests/demands.

Sorry, but I really disagree with that one. A concession is a concession, and Kerry has made it clear he is not contesting the overall results or seeking a different outcome (not that he could get away with it if he wanted to), but that doesn't mean the votes shouldn't be counted fairly, or that votes wrongly cast, stolen or lost somehow don't matter as soon as the contest is over. Even though the electoral process went better than many had feared, and seems to have been fair overall, that doesn't mean there aren't serious flaws that need to be addressed, and in some cases, wrongs that need to be redressed.

I see that Bush ended up winning by something like 22 electoral votes. Here's an idea for the age of feelings and everyone-wins pet fairs and special olympics: let's cancel all the Republican votes in Georgia and Nevada to make poor old Johnny feel better about himself. Bush will still win. What difference will it make?

[Rob Mayercik]

A concession is a concession, and Kerry has made it clear he is not contesting the overall results or seeking a different outcome I have to admit that despite my dislike/distrust for Kerry (always got the "used car salesman" vibe off of him), I was actually impressed by his decision to not put the country through the "Gore Loser"(TM) scenario again. It would appear that he's being a pretty good sport about the whole thing (at least in front of the public), and I think that's one thing about the guy I can appreciate.

Now, would anyone care to place bets on how long before (now) ex-Senator Edwards pops up on some high-visibility class-action lawsuit? Something relating to Vioxx, perhaps?

Rob

P.S. Of course, if Kerry decides to retract his concession (which I am expecting to be unlikely), I will retract the related portions of my above statement.

[TRNDRVR]

bah.

"whoever wins, we lose."DITTO!!!

I can't wait to lose my job and go on public assistance. :(

[Fullsizexj]

For those that are disappointed that Kerry decided to conceed, don't worry tomorrow he will tell ya what you want to hear like everything else

[Ramsey]

For those that are disappointed that Kerry decided to conceed, don't worry tomorrow he will tell ya what you want to hear like everything else
HA! we got the flip now just a matter of time till the flop

[Glenn B]

DITTO!!!

I can't wait to lose my job and go on public assistance. :(
Huh? So it is a fact that President Bush is going to fire you? Or he is going to eliminate your job?
I feel for anybody losing their job, I have been there. I lost mine after 9/11 due to politicians. However, they were local to me, and I knew them and was there when they made the decision. They were also Democrats.

I could have focused on that, but I moved on. Was it fun? No, not at first. But I bounced back and moved on.

[TRNDRVR]

Huh? So it is a fact that President Bush is going to fire you? Or he is going to eliminate your job?With the fact that he doesn't support government subsidies for the company I work for, if they are in fact to end, I lose my job. Bush wants them to end.

The United States is one of, if not the only, modernized nation in the world that doesn't fully subsidize its public transportation. I've been to third world countries that have better public transportation (trains) than we do. Pretty sad!

I feel for anybody losing their job, I have been there. I lost mine after 9/11 due to politicians. However, they were local to me, and I knew them and was there when they made the decision. They were also Democrats.

I could have focused on that, but I moved on. Was it fun? No, not at first. But I bounced back and moved on.Just so you know, I'm a long haul locomotive engineer for Amtrak (hence the screen-name and avatar). I've worked hard and put in my time to get to where I'm at. I could bounce back too, but it would mean a great step back to the very bottom. I'm getting a little old to be starting over.

[Urban Redneck]

With the fact that he doesn't support government subsidies for the company I work for, if they are in fact to end, I lose my job. Bush wants them to end.

The United States is one of, if not the only, modernized nation in the world that doesn't fully subsidize its public transportation. I've been to third world countries that have better public transportation (trains) than we do. Pretty sad!


I've been to third world countries that have worse air pollution than we do...do we start taking cats off of our cars? Why fully government subsidize anything? The public school systems works so well.... Fully subsidize the rail system and watch the trains fall off the track...oh wait.... :gag:

It sucks when your job goes away, I know. I think probably 80% of everyone on this board has been there. Are you doing anything to prepare for it? Since when did it become ok to, "Don't ask what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you?"

[Glenn B]

Indeed, I have lived in places that had great public transportation. Though, to be honest, I really do not have an opinion either way on the taxpayers funding a rail system.

As for worked long and hard to get where you are... me too. But I had to get over the fact that I was never going to get another job that paid as well as mine did in the location I am in. Even if I moved, I would have had to take a severe cut in pay. It was still a huge change for me, and was not easy. However, I am no longer at the mercy of politicians decisions and to me, that is a great thing.

Starting over as a Firefighter is tough when you are at my age, and have a body that resists even getting out of bed. I could blame the Military for that, just as I could blame the 3 democrats that ended my career as a Chief Officer. Instead, I changed. Do I feel bitter at times? sure, that is normal. But you know what.... it was up to me to rebound, not the government.

Be sure to not get me wrong, I am not saying it is easy, or that I do not appreciate what you do, or your concerns. I do not wish losing a job on anybody (well, other than a few people... hehehe, but their day will come :) ).
With the fact that he doesn't support government subsidies for the company I work for, if they are in fact to end, I lose my job. Bush wants them to end.

The United States is one of, if not the only, modernized nation in the world that doesn't fully subsidize its public transportation. I've been to third world countries that have better public transportation (trains) than we do. Pretty sad!

Just so you know, I'm a long haul locomotive engineer for Amtrak (hence the screen-name). I've worked hard and put in my time to get to where I'm at. I could bounce back too, but it would mean a great step back to the very bottom. I'm getting a little old to be starting over.

[Darky]

If Kerry won, I may have been out a job. He doesn't seem to supportive of the military and with his pacifist ways I doubt he'd need to keep the military at its current size and strength.

[XJEEPER]

Found some light reading on Amtrak......I learned something new today!

http://www.thetravelinsider.info/2004/austin.htm
http://www.gop.gov/item-news.asp?docId=44671

http://www.unitedrail.org/news/twa20041006.html

http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/consumer/a/aaamtrakfunds.htm

With the fact that he doesn't support government subsidies for the company I work for, if they are in fact to end, I lose my job. Bush wants them to end.

The United States is one of, if not the only, modernized nation in the world that doesn't fully subsidize its public transportation. I've been to third world countries that have better public transportation (trains) than we do. Pretty sad!

Just so you know, I'm a long haul locomotive engineer for Amtrak (hence the screen-name and avatar). I've worked hard and put in my time to get to where I'm at. I could bounce back too, but it would mean a great step back to the very bottom. I'm getting a little old to be starting over.

[Glenn B]

Many thanks xjeeper. Good reading.
Based on that, why should the Gov. subsidize AMTRAK?

What is the impact if we discontinue government subsidies?
Private industry makes a go of it?
Failure of the passenger rail system?

If taxpayers continue to fund a rail that cannot make a profit, are we:
Hopeful it will some day appeal to people
Just saving some jobs

Can Amtrak attrack more people by:
Impoved services
Be on time for once
Be more efficient?
Bite the bullet, spend more to improve services to make it attractive?

Will they attract more people if:
They manage to keep the trains on the tracks?
(ok, I admit that was a bad joke)

Who owns the rail ways? Private industry, or the Federal Govt.?

Why in bloody hell can I not stay in the smoking section for more than 30 minutes? Or have the Communist, Democrat Loving, Govt Money Sucking, Money Bleeders won out, and no smoking at all on trains now?

Hmmmmmm. Choooo Choooo, got me thinking Trains now.

[dellstopjeep]

before we start harping on the young guys i have an opinion being an 18 year old. Not all the young people dont vote, a lot dont, but at least one, me, voted. And am very happy with the outcome. everyone comes up to me and goes "so you voting for bush huh, ready to get drafted?" Hell yeah i will fight for my country if it comes down to it. Im not sayin i want to join the military tomorrow and go to iraq, but if it comes down to a serious situation, i want to support my country in anyway possible. and i dont even want to get started on won jon kerry.

[TRNDRVR]

Many thanks xjeeper. Good reading.
Based on that, why should the Gov. subsidize AMTRAK?So based on what you read, you see that funding the rebuilding of Iraq more palatable? Isn't that a country that's more than capable of financing the cost of rebuilding itself? I unfortunately can't help how the higher up of Amtrak runs this company, but like one of those articles Jeff linked, no passenger rail in the WORLD is profitable. I do know that we waste more money in one week rebuilding that POS country than my company ask for help from its fellow Americans.
So I guess it's lets make love to the Iraqi barbarians and lets F*CK your fellow Democratic American workers. I see. Thanks George. Peace brother!!!

[Glenn B]

Well, I see you are twisting the domestic question in to a global issue. While doing so, you are laying the blame on one person, the President.

Do you know that Congress votes? You probably do, and you also know that THEY have a little to do with the Govt. In fact THEY approved the spending for Iraq. THEY approved the War Powers. THEY also deal with funding Amtrak. THEY are elected by the people, and are supposed to REPRESENT the people.

How much communication have YOU had with YOUR Congressman? What does He/She say about it? Is He/She willing to fight to have the taxpayers subsidize your job? That is where you need to focus your energy, that is where you will see results, if any.

If the those that are elected by your State, and other States choose not to fund your job at the cost of other taxpayers, I am sorry.

I sincerely doubt our President is out to **** Democratic workers, or make love to terrorists as you claim. That is a bit lopsided.

Again, I hate to see you potentially lose your job. But working off of taxpayer subsidies is certainly not a *sure thing* forever.
So based on what you read, you see that funding the rebuilding of Iraq more palatable? Isn't that a country that's more than capable of financing the cost of rebuilding itself? I unfortunately can't help how the higher up of Amtrak runs this company, but like one of those articles Jeff linked, no passenger rail in the WORLD is profitable. I do know that we waste more money in one week rebuilding that POS country than my company ask for help from its fellow Americans.
So I guess it's lets make love to the Iraqi barbarians and lets F*CK your fellow Democratic American workers. I see. Thanks George. Peace brother!!!

[XJEEPER]

I can see your frustrations Dan and I sure don't want you to lose you job .....the whole Amtrax thing is very odd.......but blaming Bush for it's demise is the same argument as saying that Clinton had 8 years to fix Amtrax and didn't. I don't see it as a party thing......who was the President when Amtrax was spun off as "private"? Would it then be his fault?

You obviously know way more about it than I do, but looking at it from a simplistic business perspective........companies in the private sector would not be allowed to stay in business for 3 decades without showing a profit to it's investors/shareholders........the only thing the gov. has done for Amtrax is postpone the funeral.

The real question is.....why?

Amtrax rents rail space from regional rail lines and when the owner's of the rail have a freight train coming through the same corridor as an Amtrax train........the Amtrax train parks on a siding a wait until the line is clear.......Amtrax will never be efficient or profitable unless they own their own rail lines......??

[Sarge]

Amtrax rents rail space from regional rail lines and when the owner's of the rail have a freight train coming through the same corridor as an Amtrax train........the Amtrax train parks on a siding a wait until the line is clear.......Amtrax will never be efficient or profitable unless they own their own rail lines......??

And the cost of the land required pretty much rules that out.

Sarge

[DrMoab]

I think one reason that rail systems work in other countries better then they do here is due to the size of the country. It countries like Britian and France and Belgum its less than a half days ride to almost anywhere. You can get across countries over there like we can go across states on the east coast here. As long as there are airplanes this country is too inpatient to ride trains. I do belive in rail systems for local areas. I remember when we were about to get UTA TRAX service here...Nobody thought it would work...everybody thought that no one would ride them but in the mornings and evenings you look at those trains and they are packed. I bet you never see an Amtrack train going across country that packed.
I too do not want to see you lose your Job Dan...In fact I wish that Amtrak could get there crap together and expand into the local and commuter market better then they are now...I just don't see it ever happening. And if Congress is going to ever vote on the matter it wont matter who is the press.

Like I said in another thread..My dad went through a very similar deal in the Eighties with Regan. After I posed that I talked to my dad to find out what was the deal...He said that Reagan had an agenda to wipe out the Job Corps. This is who my dad worked for. So Regan spent a bunch of money to do studies on how effective Job Corps really were. Everybody thought there job was done for sure but when the study came back it backfired in Regans face...So maybe that will happen to you...For your sake I hope it does.

[Brian Felts]

The LOrd is my provider,not Mr Kerry or President Bush.When you vote for savage acts such as PB abortion annd same sex marrige Its hard for me to support you no matter what your economic plan is.Being in a trade unoin the last for years have been rough but with the Lord having my back ive survived .President Bush even with his faults ,He is human after all.is at least standing up for godly principles.Lay up your treasures inn heaven not earth. :us: God bless the USA

[TRNDRVR]

The LOrd is my provider,not Mr Kerry or President Bush.When you vote for savage acts such as PB abortion annd same sex marrige Its hard for me to support you no matter what your economic plan is.Being in a trade unoin the last for years have been rough but with the Lord having my back ive survived .President Bush even with his faults ,He is human after all.is at least standing up for godly principles.Lay up your treasures inn heaven not earth. :us: God bless the USA
:sure:

[Fergie]

The LOrd is my provider,not Mr Kerry or President Bush.When you vote for savage acts such as PB abortion annd same sex marrige Its hard for me to support you no matter what your economic plan is.Being in a trade unoin the last for years have been rough but with the Lord having my back ive survived .President Bush even with his faults ,He is human after all.is at least standing up for godly principles.Lay up your treasures inn heaven not earth. :us: God bless the USA
Amen. It is good to see that Christians aren't afraid to voice the reasons they vote the way they do.

I find it hard to understand why Christians voted for Kerry. How can they support a man like that? And if they say that they are Christians and that the like Kerry's economic policies better, then they need to stop and realize that Christian values should come first, not economic motivation.

Fergie

[Blair Williams]

Wow...this thread is still going.

Yeah, I'm a libertarian, I would have voted for Badnarik.

P.S. thanks for the attack, guys. its good to see partisanship isnt ruining NAXJA

:wstupid:

[TRNDRVR]

Amen. It is good to see that Christians aren't afraid to voice the reasons they vote the way they do.

I find it hard to understand why Christians voted for Kerry. How can they support a man like that? And if they say that they are Christians and that the like Kerry's economic policies better, then they need to stop and realize that Christian values should come first, not economic motivation.

FergieSo you think that the good of "Christian values" should come before the good of the people? :scared:

[red91]

So you think that the good of "Christian values" should come before the good of the people? :scared:


Where does abortion fall into this...the sanctity of life is a HUGE issue.
I find it interesting that the left calls it PRO-CHOICE.
The fact of the matter is is that it is a PRO-DEATH stance.
Look at a fetus after only a couple of weeks and tell me you cant recognize what it is.

The main problem is that even among the "christians" they have differing values morally.

[Fergie]

So you think that the good of "Christian values" should come before the good of the people? :scared:
Are you that blinded by your anti-Bush/anti republicn rhetoric that you can't read what I type?

Show me once where I said that the good of "Christian values" should come before the good of the people!

If you look at what I said instead of going with your knee-jerk reaction, you would see that I said that among people that call themselves Christians, they need to put their Christian values first, not economic policy and such. If you call yourself a Christian and truely believe, then you know that God will provide everything you need.

Fergie

[TRNDRVR]

Are you that blinded by your anti-Bush/anti republicn rhetoric that you can't read what I type?

Show me once where I said that the good of "Christian values" should come before the good of the people!

If you look at what I said instead of going with your knee-jerk reaction, you would see that I said that among people that call themselves Christians, they need to put their Christian values first, not economic policy and such. If you call yourself a Christian and truely believe, then you know that God will provide everything you need.

FergieIsn't a good economy good for the people? That's how I took your statement. "Christian values should come first, not economic motivation" A good "economic motivation" is good for the people, including yourself. And no, I do not call myself Christian. God provides me with nothing that I can't provide for myself.

PS I'm no more blinded by my anti-Bush/anti republicn rhetoric than you are with your anti-Kerry/anti-democrat rhetoric.

[Urban Redneck]

Isn't a good economy good for the people?...

Then, using your logic...isn't dumping a product that hasn't made enough money to return it's investment, be good business? Wouldn't that money be better off spent elsewhere?

:doh: I hate when logic works...

[TRNDRVR]

Then, using your logic...isn't dumping a product that hasn't made enough money to return it's investment, be good business? Wouldn't that money be better off spent elsewhere?

:doh: I hate when logic works...What return are we going to get by dumping money into Iraq? Believe me when I say that I do support the troops over there, and support the war, (I even tried to join at one time, said I was too fat and old :doh: ) but I do not support the financial burden of rebuilding Iraq. I'd rather invest into America's future, not another countries. I hate it when logic works too.

[Glenn B]

OK, so what did YOUR Congressman vote? You do know Congress signed the War Powers, and the funding for the war. You gotta look at the whole system, and not just the one at the top. It had to get plenty of support from the state elected folks before it got to a successful vote.

Besides, how in the hell can you compare a train to National Security, and the freedom of Iraq and the Afgahns? That is a FAR reach if I ever saw one.

Besides, your candidate (on one of his flip/flops) said he would INCREASE the size of the Military. Believe me, that would not have been free. I would even guess Kerry would have put more weight for spending on National Interests, rather than that of the choo choo employees.

What return are we going to get by dumping money into Iraq? Believe me when I say that I do support the troops over there, and support the war, (I even tried to join at one time, said I was too fat and old :doh: ) but I do not support the financial burden of rebuilding Iraq. I'd rather invest into America's future, not another countries. I hate it when logic works too.

[TRNDRVR]

I give. :dunno:
Hasta Hasta Hasta
I guess the freedom of Iraq and the Afgahns is far more important the the citizens of our own country? I all for National Security, but F*CK the freedom of Iraq and the Afgahns?
This isn't just about "choo choo employees". What is Bush going to do about the people in need here in the US?

I like my new sig!!!

PS Search through my post. Where did I ever say I supported Kerry?

[red91]

RUMOR has it that the San Juan Passenger line will be coming directly through your town...Choo Choo....

With direct stops at Doe Bay, Roche Harbor and all points inbetween...

(insert train pic here)

[Fergie]

And no, I do not call myself Christian. God provides me with nothing that I can't provide for myself.


Then that is fine with me. I am not trying to judge you. I have no right! However, if someone calls themself a Christian, then they need to put their Christian values first. That has been my point the entire time.


PS Search through my post. Where did I ever say I supported Kerry?

Now you just sound like Z22_Z33.

Fergie

[TRNDRVR]

Now you just sound like Z22_Z33.Huh???

[Gridikal]

So based on what you read, you see that funding the rebuilding of Iraq more palatable? Isn't that a country that's more than capable of financing the cost of rebuilding itself?
--Sure let's do that so all your democratic brethren can spin it and then run around and say, " See! see! we told you it was a war for oil!"

[Fergie]

Huh???
Just trying to lighten the situation. Others will appreciate it.

Fergie

[Urban Redneck]

What return are we going to get by dumping money into Iraq? Believe me when I say that I do support the troops over there, and support the war, (I even tried to join at one time, said I was too fat and old :doh: ) but I do not support the financial burden of rebuilding Iraq. I'd rather invest into America's future, not another countries. I hate it when logic works too.

Not once did I mention putting the money into Iraq. The only way I would put the money into Iraq would be in the form of aircraft delivered munnitions, sniper rifles and bodybags that say..."Dead Iraqi Extremist Inside". Yes, we do need to do something to prop up their economy until they get their crap together, but it shouldn't be much.

Z22! HA! :yelclap:

[red91]

Amazing...Z22 has been gone for four days now...6-4= Nov. 2nd.

Probably still licking his wounds, or something... :laugh3:

[red91]

God provides me with nothing that I can't provide for myself.



Now we know who controlles the Hydrogen / Oxygen mixture, and gravity.

And that wonderful Photosynthisis thing that turns carbon monoxide into Oxygen.

[Glenn B]

Amazing...Z22 has been gone for four days now...6-4= Nov. 2nd.

Probably still licking his wounds, or something... :laugh3:
His Mommy and Daddy probably put his butt on restriction from the computer for a while.

[TRNDRVR]

Now we know who controlles the Hydrogen / Oxygen mixture, and gravity.

And that wonderful Photosynthisis thing that turns carbon monoxide into Oxygen.:huh: Please tell me you're not serious. Are you?
You're funny!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:

[red91]

:huh: Please tell me you're not serious. Are you?
You're funny!! :laugh2: :laugh2: :laugh2:


Well you don't seem up to being humorous(too damn serious and all) so I took it upon myself.

Once again, the Rabbi has confounded another :NAXJA: Goyim.


And BTW...I wont tell. Keeps you "Gents" guessing...

[XJZ]

Amazing...Z22 has been gone for four days now...6-4= Nov. 2nd.

Probably still licking his wounds, or something... :laugh3:

I'm starting to miss the little bugger....

[red91]

I'm starting to miss the little bugger....


are you gonna answer that question he asked you in the other post??? are ya, are ya, are ya...

[DrMoab]

Not once did I mention putting the money into Iraq. The only way I would put the money into Iraq would be in the form of aircraft delivered munnitions, sniper rifles and bodybags that say..."Dead Iraqi Extremist Inside". Yes, we do need to do something to prop up their economy until they get their crap together, but it shouldn't be much.

Z22! HA! :yelclap:
Actually now that Bush is back in and he doesn't have to be re-elected I think the should go in and take all the oil from them. Sell it cheap to us(and the countries that supported the war) and use that money to rebuild the country. We could get gas cheaper,we wouldn't have to spend our tax dollars on rebuilding them and they would get rebuilt. A win win for everyone. :laugh3:
Maybe we could give the oil we take from Iraq...give it to Amtrak for their trains to run on and then maybe they could become somewhat profitable and I wouldn't have to use MY tax dollars to fund them.
When Dan started talking about losing his job I really felt bad for him...I still do but the more I have read and the more I think about it, I don't want to fund a dead horse.
To be honest I don't like seeing my tax dollars going to anything or to anybody that doesn't help me in return. Thats why I pay them. To make MY roads better and to my MY kids smarter(this is still not very likley) I don't like my tax dollars work for welfare...Not to individuals and not to companys. I don't think it makes the country any better. The weak get weaker when you give them free hand outs. To be honest I think we need to quit giving hand outs to everyone...The airlines,other countries,welfare people,amtrak,and countless others too.
OK I'm done. sorry guys Im tired

[Brian Felts]

Just clicked on my reputation for my post on this thread.do you people think I actually care how many red dots I get by my name?If standing up for what I belive in gets me little red dots under my name so be it !I will rejoice in them. :us:

[Glenn B]

Just clicked on my reputation for my post on this thread.do you people think I actually care how many red dots I get by my name?If standing up for what I belive in gets me little red dots under my name so be it !I will rejoice in them. :us:
Obviously you care. You took time out of your day to come here and compose and make a post about how much this does not matter to you.. how we feel. I suspect the opposite, and that you are looking for help, or acceptance.

Sorry, the only fiction I read is Tom Clancy, Stephen King, and Grisham. :D I rejoice in the power, skill, and competency of the US Military.

[TRNDRVR]

Just clicked on my reputation for my post on this thread.do you people think I actually care how many red dots I get by my name?If standing up for what I belive in gets me little red dots under my name so be it !I will rejoice in them. :us:
:wave:

[XJEEPER]

Funny thing about the TRNDRVR, he's usually the first in line to help out folks in need, doesn't expect an award for it and acts much more Christ-like than many Christians I know........"by your works ye shall know them". God knows what is in our heart and will judge us by our actions.

[ACE]

Funny thing about the TRNDRVR, he's usually the first in line to help out folks in need, doesn't expect an award for it and acts much more Christ-like than many Christians I know........"by your works ye shall know them". God knows what is in our heart and will judge us by our actions.

Amen to that.

[Eagle]

To be honest I don't like seeing my tax dollars going to anything or to anybody that doesn't help me in return. Thats why I pay them. To make MY roads better and to my MY kids smarter(this is still not very likley) I don't like my tax dollars work for welfare...Not to individuals and not to companys. I don't think it makes the country any better.
Corporate welfare is a short-term solution in search of the real problem.

How many of you remember that not too many years ago Chrysler Corporation, under Lee Iaccoca, was about to go belly-up. Our tax dollars bailed them out, Iaccoca made a fortune, and then what happened? Once the company was solvent again, it was sold to Daimler-Benz, the stockholders made heaps of money, and the taxpayers (as usual) took it in the ear.

I'm sure there are other examoles that economics majors might remember. That's not my "thing" so the Chrysler fiasco is the only one I remember.

[Rev Den]

Umm....Eagle, Chrysler repaid the loan.

Rev

[Darky]

Funny thing about the TRNDRVR, he's usually the first in line to help out folks in need, doesn't expect an award for it and acts much more Christ-like than many Christians I know........"by your works ye shall know them". God knows what is in our heart and will judge us by our actions.
You're right about how God sees in our hearts, but wrong about him judging us on our actions. To paraphrase (I think its in James Brian or Fergie will probably know): You are saved by grace, and not by works, lest any man should boast. Our actions and wrods can all look very good, but its the heart that God looks at and if you've given it to him and believe in Jesus Christ as you Savior and that he died on the cross, you will be saved. Our actions should reflect the decision we've made but they aren't what gets us into Heaven.

[DrMoab]

Amen to that.
Even though I have said things here that might seem contrary. I also have to agree.
Funny how an election can bring out so many diferent views from so many diferent people.
I just hope now that its over everybody will quit harping on people for their political views(me included)

[XJEEPER]

You're right about how God sees in our hearts, but wrong about him judging us on our actions. To paraphrase (I think its in James Brian or Fergie will probably know): You are saved by grace, and not by works, lest any man should boast. Our actions and wrods can all look very good, but its the heart that God looks at and if you've given it to him and believe in Jesus Christ as you Savior and that he died on the cross, you will be saved. Our actions should reflect the decision we've made but they aren't what gets us into Heaven.

I'm in partial agreement, but to paraphase leaves out the very important Verse 10:

Ephesians 2:8-10

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Grace is God's gift to us, faith and good works are required of us to be worthy of this gift.

I believe in God and that Jesus Christ is our Savior and atoned for our sins, but I also believe that I have the responsibility and obligation to do the
best I can while I'm here on Earth.
The Atonement also provides a means to repent for ones sins here on Earth
and forsake them (do them no more), showing by our works and examples that we are striving to be more Christ-like (I've got a long way to go) and are constantly trying to improve ourselves and learn from our mistakes/sins.

I believe that we are saved by the grace of God, through the Atonement, and
will receive our place in Heaven, by our works.

[Matthew Currie]

To be honest I don't like seeing my tax dollars going to anything or to anybody that doesn't help me in return. Thats why I pay them. To make MY roads better and to my MY kids smarter(this is still not very likley) I don't like my tax dollars work for welfare...Not to individuals and not to companys. I don't think it makes the country any better. The weak get weaker when you give them free hand outs. To be honest I think we need to quit giving hand outs to everyone...The airlines,other countries,welfare people,amtrak,and countless others too.
OK I'm done. sorry guys Im tired

Be careful what you wish for. What if I and everybody else decided to agree with you? Can you really afford to pick up the cost of your kids' education, which is now borne overhwelmingly by those who are not receiving it? Can you really afford to bear the cost of your roads which is now borne to a great extent by those who don't drive on them? How about fire departments? I've never had a fire. Why should I pay for them to put out other people's fires? Well, you can see where this is going, can't you? It's usually accepted that some public works and activities are sufficiently beneficial to the society as a whole that they should be funded globally, rather than on the basis of who uses them or how much. You seem to be arguing otherwise. I think you should do the math and follow the implications of your idea to their logical end before you go too much further with it.

Of course anything can be overdone - and will be eventually, and to the minds of many has already been and then some. But I don't think that means we should privatize everything or fund every government service by user fees (and I think that if you stop to consider you'll realize you don't quite think so either).

[DrMoab]

Be careful what you wish for. What if I and everybody else decided to agree with you? Can you really afford to pick up the cost of your kids' education, which is now borne overhwelmingly by those who are not receiving it? Can you really afford to bear the cost of your roads which is now borne to a great extent by those who don't drive on them? How about fire departments? I've never had a fire. Why should I pay for them to put out other people's fires? Well, you can see where this is going, can't you? It's usually accepted that some public works and activities are sufficiently beneficial to the society as a whole that they should be funded globally, rather than on the basis of who uses them or how much. You seem to be arguing otherwise. I think you should do the math and follow the implications of your idea to their logical end before you go too much further with it.

Of course anything can be overdone - and will be eventually, and to the minds of many has already been and then some. But I don't think that means we should privatize everything or fund every government service by user fees (and I think that if you stop to consider you'll realize you don't quite think so either).
Somewhere in this thread or another I said I want my tax dollars to go toward roads and and other stuff we "need". I just don't think we need to fund finding convicted fellons a job...Yes we do this. My wife unfortunaly is the head of a program here in Utah doing just this. Do we need to fund a rail system no one rides? IMHO NO. Do we need to fund government programs to protect some abstract snail somewhere? NO. Do we need to fund the Aids epedemic in Ethiopia? Again I don't think so. I think if we would streamline what we spend our money on and get rid of all the programs that only teach people to live off the government instead of working towards it themselfs then we would have alot more money for roads,schools,fire and police...The stuff that really matters.

[Matthew Currie]

Somewhere in this thread or another I said I want my tax dollars to go toward roads and and other stuff we "need". I just don't think we need to fund finding convicted fellons a job...Yes we do this. My wife unfortunaly is the head of a program here in Utah doing just this. Do we need to fund a rail system no one rides? IMHO NO. Do we need to fund government programs to protect some abstract snail somewhere? NO. Do we need to fund the Aids epedemic in Ethiopia? Again I don't think so. I think if we would streamline what we spend our money on and get rid of all the programs that only teach people to live off the government instead of working towards it themselfs then we would have alot more money for roads,schools,fire and police...The stuff that really matters.

Put that way it's a little different from how you put it in the response I quoted above. Put that way it makes much more sense, even though we might disagree on the details of the dividing line between what matters and what doesn't.

One might argue, for example, that finding convicted felons a job, while it entails being nicer to the felons than you might feel they deserve, might have social benefits in reduced recidivism, increased tax participation, etc. that outweigh the cost, just as the Reagan-funded study on the Job Corps, mentioned in another post above, discovered, to the surprise of some. Maybe, maybe not, but the idea at least isn't inherently ridiculous.

[DrMoab]

. Maybe, maybe not, but the idea at least isn't inherently ridiculous.
I think I just said it the wrong way....As far as the fellons go and getting them jobs...The ones who really want to work...They will find work. This program my wife is doing now goes kind of like this: These guys get out of prison and go live under the bridge somewhere...When their PO asks them what they are doing to find work they tell him nothing...Well part of there agreement when they get out of prison is that they have to be looking for work. Well they won't so their PO sends them to my wife...she goes around the community to try and find willing buisness to let these guys come work for them free of charge...You and I(well not you because its a state run thing) Pick up the bill. Only problem is...these guys still won't work. The work long enough to get another bottle of port and its back to the bridge. So really all we are doing is buying them another bottle of wine. Like I said..the ones who want to work usualy can go..on there own and get jobs at the same places my wife is sending them at the states expence. Thats what I don't like about it.

[Matthew Currie]

I think I just said it the wrong way....As far as the fellons go and getting them jobs...The ones who really want to work...They will find work. This program my wife is doing now goes kind of like this: These guys get out of prison and go live under the bridge somewhere...When their PO asks them what they are doing to find work they tell him nothing...Well part of there agreement when they get out of prison is that they have to be looking for work. Well they won't so their PO sends them to my wife...she goes around the community to try and find willing buisness to let these guys come work for them free of charge...You and I(well not you because its a state run thing) Pick up the bill. Only problem is...these guys still won't work. The work long enough to get another bottle of port and its back to the bridge. So really all we are doing is buying them another bottle of wine. Like I said..the ones who want to work usualy can go..on there own and get jobs at the same places my wife is sending them at the states expence. Thats what I don't like about it.

Explained that way, it sounds like a pretty poorly conceived program. It must be very frustrating, especially when your wife is the one trying to make an unworkable scheme work.

[Brian Felts]

:wave:
Just because we disagree politically doesnt mean I hold any ill will towards you.But the time has come in america where we must take a stand for our morals even if it means facing persecution or financial hardship.My stance on the president has nothing to do with the way I feel about you there are good people in both parties.

[DrMoab]

Explained that way, it sounds like a pretty poorly conceived program. It must be very frustrating, especially when your wife is the one trying to make an unworkable scheme work.
Ya know...the funny thing is...She is doing a good job at it. Her and two others are putting it together and they are getting alot of support from the rest of the state. It would be a great program except for the simple fact that the type of people she is trying to help just don't want any. Her job is largely the reason I feel the way I do about welfare. Before she started this job she was just doing normal welfare type work and she would get so sick of these 20 year old girls with three kids from three diferent fathers comming in there and expecting the state to just take care of them. Then if they were forced to look for work they would act like the world hated them. These are the people that in my opinion shouldn't get anything. The only problem is the kids. They don't deserve the position they are put in. If it wasn't for them I would just say let them all starve. They don't deserve any better.