E-Codes Not Bright Enough

Ok, after installing my Hella E-Codes, I noticed they are nowhere near as bright as my Xtravision sealed beams. I have the Hella +30% 55/60W bulbs. Could this be a bulb problem? I doubt it's a wiring problem, because the Xtravisions seem to work great. What could I be doing wrong? Should I try different bulbs?

I'm not sure if anyone explained what you should expect with the E-codes, but brightness should not be the issue. There is a huge difference in the beam pattern, in that the e-codes light up the whole "block" of area infront of the vehicle rather than two beams (one up and front, one down and right). When I first got mine I too thought that they seemed dimmer, but as I got used to them I realized that I actually had more light it was just evenly distributed rather than being concentrated in two brightly lit areas.


BTW - I use the PIAA 55/60's. I never even tried the ones that came with the enclosures. You might want to try an upgrade bulb like a PIAA, or SilverStar, or even a Cool Blue.

nosajwp said:

Ok, after installing my Hella E-Codes, I noticed they are nowhere near as bright as my Xtravision sealed beams. I have the Hella +30% 55/60W bulbs. Could this be a bulb problem? I doubt it's a wiring problem, because the Xtravisions seem to work great. What could I be doing wrong? Should I try different bulbs?

Click to expand...

The main problem I had was that the high-beams gave a kind of tunnel vision, where I could only see straight in front of me, and nothing to the sides.

I don't know what you're talking about with your stock headlight lighting pattern. My Xtravisions throw out two main beams, with a wide beam along the bottom on low, and on high they do the same, but with a brighter main beam, and a wide beam on top.

Just got this killer explanation from Daniel Stern...must read!!! Looks like I might be getting Cibies if I can get Susquehanna to accept a return for my Hellas.



On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Parcell, Jason wrote:

> I have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee, which uses the 6054 type sealed beam
> headlights. I previously had Sylvania Xtravision sealed beam
> replacement headlights, and upgraded to Hella E-code H4 headlamps. I
> upgraded based on some advice that I would have much improved nightime
> vision. After installing the E-Codes, I noticed they didn't put out
> nearly as much light as the sealed beams. The lighting pattern on low
> beam was nice, but still didn't put out much light, and the high beams
> put out a lot of light, but it was so focused, that I couldn't see the
> sides of the road. Could the lack of light output be a bulb-related
> problem, or is this just the nature of the E-Code lighting pattern?

It's the nature of *those particular* E-code lights that you installed. The Hella units are widely sold but -- in the 200mm x 142mm rectangular format you have as well as the 7" round format -- poor performers. The problem is worse than you state -- the low beam has a sharp cutoff, which is good, but that's all that can recommend it. The beam is too narrow, the hot spot too far over to the right, there's not much light within the beam pattern, and there's a *vexing* problem with those lamps related to beam
focus: The high beam hot spot is separated from the low beam hot spot by an excessive vertical amount. This means: Aim the low beams properly, and the high beams are focused up in the trees. Pull the high beams down where they can actually do you some good, and the low beams end 30 feet in front of the car. I exaggerate for illustration, but the effect is very real and not solvable; it's in the optics.

At this point you may feel as though you've been "burned" and not want to try and fix it, but if you're up for trying again with some good lamps, I do have the ones that were factory installed on Jeeps originally destined for export. They are Cibies, and they exhibit none of the problems your Hellas have.


Take a look at http://www.torque.net/~dastern/Photometry/isocomparo.html .

These are isocandela diagrams for four different 7" round H4 headlamp units. I haven't got the 200mm units scanned yet, but they are very similar.

If you're not familiar with isocandela diagrams, these will look like random squiggles and lines. Think of it as a topographic or "contour" map of the correctly-aimed beam pattern. Each differently-colored line represents the threshold of a particular intensity level, with the color legend located to the right of the isocandela diagram. The diagram is plotted on a chart calibrated in degrees. Straight ahead is represented by (0,0), that is, zero degrees up-down and zero degrees left-right.

To get a mental approximation of the units and amounts under discussion
here:

Parking lamp: About 60 to 100 candela
Front turn signal: About 500 candela
Glaring high-beam daytime running lamps (e.g. Saturn): 8000 candela

The parameters to pay attention to are the luminous flux (total amount of light within the beam), the maximum intensity and its location within the beam relative to the axial point (H,V) -- the less downward/rightward offset, the longer the seeing distance -- stray light outside the beam pattern and effective beam width (contained within the dark-turquoise 500 candela contour)

The two lamps at the top of the page are no longer produced, which is sad
-- they're number one and number two in performance in this comparison. Focus on the bottom two diagrams, Cibie vs. Hella.

Things to notice about these two diagrams:

(1) The Cibie produces a much wider beam pattern than the Hella. The 1000 candela line of the Cibie's beam pattern extends from 25 degrees Left to 25 degrees right, while the 1000 candela line of the Hella extends from 18 degrees Left to 20 degrees Right. At a distance of 50 feet from the car, this means the 1000 candela-and-brighter portion of the Hella's beam is 10.5 feet narrower than that of the Cibie. The 300 cd contour of the Cibie's pattern is *far* wider, extending from 43 degrees Left to 50 degrees Right, compared to 26 Left to 25 Right for the Hella. This means the overall useful width of the beam pattern at 25 feet from the car, as perceived by the driver, will be 40.7 feet for the Cibie and 22.3 feet for the Hella.

2) The total luminous flux (overall amount of light) within the beam pattern is 695 lumens for the Cibie, 463 lumens for the Hella - the Cibie is 50.1% more efficient. (the TLF data is listed as "Luminous Flux" in the readings up above the isocandela diagram)

The high beams for these two lamps (isocandela diagrams not yet scanned
in) are somewhat similar in overall performance and amount of light -- the critical difference is that the Cibie's high beam hot spot is located closer to (0,0) and closer to its low beam hot spot. The Hella's high beam and low beam hot spots are separated by a fairly large vertical amount, giving the problem described above.

So...whaddya say? Try again with good lamps?

DS

I have a set of CIBIE's sitting on my shelf, 7" rounds, they are awsome lights and while sterns explaination is true to a point the other part of the problem is that the rectangular lights are FLAT, the 7" rounds are convex and the lense sticks out about an inch or so which lights up both sides of the road and provides the cutoff. My way to compensate for this is to use both the E codes for my main headlights and Hella 450 fogs to provide the side lighting, it's a very effective combination for me.. As far as the brightness of the E codes, well all I can say is squat down below the centerline and look into them, then tell me they are not bright., about 10 min later you should be able to see again They are supposed to look dull from the top view down, thats why they don't blind oncoming drivers when you are running higher powered bulbs, that cutoff is very effective. If you want to blind people get a set of flood lights !!!
The cibie's are also last time I checked about 3-4x's the cost of the hella's so if you have deep pockets by all means go with the cibies they make VERY good stuff. My cibie 7" rounds are going in my new unlimited when I get it. as well as my cibie super oscars....

Just did a quick look see on the stern site, the prices appear to have come WAYYYYY down, they were over $180 a light last time I talked to him about 4 years ago. Going to have to look into it a little more, I always did like cibie's.......

I also asked him about IPF's and here's what he had to say:



On Tue, 2 Nov 2004, Parcell, Jason wrote:

> You described exactly what I was seeing! I had my lows set perfectly,
> even though they weren't that great, and my highs barely even touched
> the road surface!

...and yet the trees were nice and bright.

> If I can get the vendor to let me return the Hellas, I might consider
> the Cibies. Where are Cibie lights made?

Belgium.

> Do you have any opinions of the IPF E-Codes?

Yes:

(1) They're not E-codes; there is no E-mark, which means they've passed no photometry or environmental-resistance tests, which means all we have to go on is IPF's breathless hype.

(2) Contrary to IPF's breathless hype, the lenses are *NOT* 3/8" thick and are *NOT* tempered glass. What else are they lying about?

(3) The performance of the "old" IPF lamps, with lens optics, is fairly decent. Not as bad as the Hellas, not as good as the Bosches or Cibies. The new "IPF" clear-lens headlamps are garbage. Massive upward stray light, poorly-formed beam patterns -- they're made in China by a company called NS-Sirius.

(4) IPF's line contains some good stuff. Their 840 fog lamp is a terrific lamp given its size and shape, and I'd pick it in a moment...if it were imported to North America. But the line appears to be moving towards hype and nonsense used to promote BS products. Their latest gimmick/scam product, the "X51 Fatboy" bulb, which is a 60/80w bulb (sixty over eighty, 60w high beam and 80w low beam). They've revved up their hype machine with all kinds of meaningless gobbledygook about this bulb, e.g. "190w optical effect on low beam, 150w optical effect on high beam". There is no such thing as "optical effect", and a bulb's wattage is only a measure of its electric power consumption, NOT its light output. Also, the large size of the glass on the "Fatboy" bulb is visually impressive, and I'm sure it'll trick lots of people into shelling out $70 for a set of these bulbs, but here's something for potential buyers to remember: The *smaller* the glass tube of a halogen lamp, the better its performance!

So yeah, I'd buy 840s, but I'd do it grudgingly because I don't have a lot of respect for companies that feel the need to lie to sell their products.

> What kind of bulbs would you recommend with the Cibies?

Osram ultra high efficiency items, $17/ea.

> If I stay with stock wattage, should I upgrade my wiring?

It always helps, but it's not necessary. First priority ought to be getting good lamps with good bulbs in there.

not to hi-jack this but... I too am looking at headlight upgrades. All of this tech is good info. Is it saying that the Hella E-Codes and the IPF's are ..."junk" and to get Cibies? What are the "recommended" bulbs for these then? I have no other lighting (fog or driving), but would probably add a bumper mounted light of some sort.

Reading what Stern sent me, it looks like the Cibies are about the best thing going. They only cost a little more than Hellas. He recommended Osram H4 Silverstar Bulbs (not the blue Sylvania ones). These are clear bulbs that put out about the most light of any legal wattage bulb out there. He can tell you more about them.

Don't forget the Bosch e-code headlights, as referred to above. They are more readily available and much cheaper than Cibies in my part of the world. I've been running a set for several years, and I think they are great. BULBS: do not use cheapies! I used some higher output bulbs, 80/100w, made in southeast asia. I think the brand was world light. They gave off some kind of smoke or vapour, and smoked up the reflectors inside my Bosch headlights. I am not happy! Next will be a fun and exciting time swilling window cleaner and globs of tissue around in the headlights, followed by a rinse with distilled water, followed by reinstall and aim them all over again. From here on, I will buy decent bulbs. Osram, Narva, Hella, are good brands I can find.

I am running Hella E-Code Euro style (non hella vision plus) with Narva 90/100 watts. I am very happy with this setup. of course I am running relay and wiring harnessed.

Ask Stern about Narva bulbs vs osram silverstar bulbs

4xBob, do you know of a good place in the states to get the Bosch's? I can't find them anywhere, and I would rather use those than Cibies anyways.

Nanny time...

Generally speaking, the E-code lights are NOT DOT-certified... and hence are technically illegal for use in the US. Same goes for higher-wattage bulbs. Will you even get caught? What are the repurcussions of GETTING caught? It probably varies from state to state....

My XJ was treated to new eyeballs this summer... a pair of DOT-Certified Hella "Vision Plus" H4-bulbed lights. FAR FAR better than the stock cheapie Sylvanias.

As mentioned in one of the posts in this thread, they do not have as bright of a "hot spot"... rather, they light the entire road evenly. It's what I've come to expect from the factory Hella lights in my "other car" (yep, PT Cruisers have Hella lights!).

I still may supplement them with a pair of fogs for winter/wet/night driving.(I've always been partial to the little plastic-case Bosch fogs... but was also quite happy with a set of Hella 550's once).

Den