Just a thought

[Matt S.]

I dont want to start some huge name throwing thing. I am just looking for honest opinions.

I am not old enough to have experienced Vietnam. So I ask those who have knowledge about that time.

Was Kerry ever considered to be held for treason? Can he? I would think with his constant barrage of the government and wrongly accused soldiers would have made people think about it. Didnt he speak to many other countries about these so called "attrocities"? What about todays time? Speaking out against democracy in a subtle way. Socialist/fascist is what he seems to be wanting. Is that against any of the founding principles of our country?

Its not really that important if i dont figure it out, i have just been welding adn having this thought in my head, and figured some of you all might know.

Matt

[Glenn B]

do you want transcripts of what that scum bag traitor said? Or do you want "cuddly-huggy" articles about Kerry?

I was a kid then, and my Dad was there. I also look at what others have written about their experiences.

Kerry is a traitor IMHO. He still has not released his DD214 with the details indicating the status of his discharge. The commie puke Junior Senator is hiding something... like a "less than honorable discharge" perhaps??? He stated going in fron of a review board about his status.... that indicates a less than honorable discharge in most cases. Otherwise, he would just be a man and release his records.

[Matt S.]

I am just wanting to know why hasnt he been held for treason. In all the articles i have read point directly to what 50+ years ago would have put that man in jail. Different ideas are fine. But to call out the morality and honor of our country? We might as well be electing for or against a "democratic" coup.

Or am i wrong in my thinking?
MAtt

[Glenn B]

IMHO, he "aided the enemy". As such, he is scum, and certainly not worthy of being the Commander in Chief of our American Soldiers.

[DrMoab]

pesonaly I think he should be hanged. I am only 30 So I was just a baby when we were finaly getting out of Vietnam. However it seems to me...had he been around it WW1 he might have got his neck stretched. Man I would love to see that.

[Matthew Currie]

Glenn, do you really believe that if Kerry's discharge had been less than honorable or otherwise tainted, the current administration would not have figured out a way to get that information and use it? Get real.

Fortunately for us, protesting a war, even saying outrageous things, is not treason. Yet.

Be very careful what you wish for or you might get it.

Freedom is tested at the edges, not the middle.

[Matt S.]

Fortunately for us, protesting a war, even saying outrageous things, is not treason. Yet.



I agree with you on that..

BUT! About Kerrys record. Maybe he did some sheat in Vietnam that CAUSED him to get DIShonorably discharged. Like per se' helping the enemy with information? because, to quote Kerry when at one point in his flip-flopping disagreed with the war, "WE ARE IN THE WRONG WAR< AT THE WRONG TIME"

Could I be jumping to conclusions? Hell yes I am. To go off subject, Does anyone here work for a Televsion Media? Why do they did in EVERYONES record that is in the public scence EXCEPT John Fawking Kerry? They could get that crap faster than a spider on a fly.

Back to the thought! Can we define treason? Do you think that the US even knows that they can still do that?

I dont know.... what you all think! :wierd:

[Glenn B]

Then he should have released it. Plain and simple, IMHO.

It is not up to the Republicans to steal and release his records, only he can do that himself.

Glenn, do you really believe that if Kerry's discharge had been less than honorable or otherwise tainted, the current administration would not have figured out a way to get that information and use it? Get real.

Fortunately for us, protesting a war, even saying outrageous things, is not treason. Yet.

Be very careful what you wish for or you might get it.

Freedom is tested at the edges, not the middle.

[ECKSJAY]

Then he should have released it. Plain and simple, IMHO.

It is not up to the Republicans to steal and release his records, only he can do that himself.

That's what career politicians do. They politicize. The folks who follow them play armchair politicians themselves and speculate all day.

;)

[Glenn B]

That's what career politicians do. They politicize. The folks who follow them play armchair politicians themselves and speculate all day.

;)
...and that is a right we have. No matter what side you are on, it is great we can all speculate and give our opinions. :us:

[Jeepin_rebel]

look what i found...... i love yahoo serch
you asked for a DD214 and i found it
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf



I still think hes a quack

[Matt S.]

Hmm.. intersting find.
http://img84.exs.cx/img84/9256/kerry1.jpg
http://img74.exs.cx/img74/2583/kerry9.jpg

Matt

[ECKSJAY]

...and that is a right we have. No matter what side you are on, it is great we can all speculate and give our opinions. :us:

But when some of us share our opinions that don't concur with others' we are called names without provocation, thus having our rights infringed upon. The irony is that it's borderline hypocritical. :laugh3:

[Urban Redneck]

But when some of us share our opinions that don't concur with others' we are called names without provocation, thus having our rights infringed upon. The irony is that it's borderline hypocritical. :laugh3:


Isn't it within someone else's right to call you that name? Some would argue that point. What the right is...you can say anything you want, I have the right not to listen. The people who cry that their rights are being infringed upon, for the most part, would fall over in shock to see what really having their rights infringed is. Go talk to someone who lived in Iraq under Saddam, see what it is really like to have your rights infringed...

[Glenn B]

look what i found...... i love yahoo serch
you asked for a DD214 and i found it
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdf



I still think hes a quack
That was not the final one though, if memory serves.

[ECKSJAY]

Isn't it within someone else's right to call you that name? Some would argue that point. What the right is...you can say anything you want, I have the right not to listen. The people who cry that their rights are being infringed upon, for the most part, would fall over in shock to see what really having their rights infringed is. Go talk to someone who lived in Iraq under Saddam, see what it is really like to have your rights infringed...

Perhaps I didn't communicate properly when I stated that personal attacks go on without provocation, or 'without apparent reason.' You did not make a personal attack on me, but in contrast would it be right for me to call you 'stupid' for not sharing the same views as I? Not necessarily, though it's within my right of 'free speech' to say so. Is it a responsible thing for me to do? No, it certainly isn't. My point is simple: Not being considerate of others and crying foul when others do the same in return makes you a hypocrite. ;)

I'm not saying it has happened to me, but this is an observation of things I've seen happen here. I just find it interesting what some will say in one breath and do in another. I don't say a lot because I'm mainly observing everyone. :wierd:

[Yucca-Man]

look what i found...... i love yahoo serch
you asked for a DD214 and i found it
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilservice/DD214.pdfYou better look closer at that "Honorable Discharge" - Page 1 is a discharge after 3 months to go to Officers Indoc Training, dated 15Dec66. Page 2 is more interesting; dated 03Jan70 it shows two big discrepancies: He was under Reserve obligation until 17Feb72, but during that time he met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong representatives in Paris...against Naval Regulations and the UCMJ, as well as putting him in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment for the office he is seeking and the office he now holds.
It lists a "Silver Star w/Combat V" as one of his awards, although that is NEVER the method of award for the Silver Star. The one thing missing is the fact that he's a self-serving asshat and doesn't deserve to be in office anywhere in the United States.

[Z22_Z33]

their rights are being infringed upon, for the most part, would fall over in shock to see what really having their rights infringed is. Go talk to someone who lived in Iraq under Saddam, see what it is really like to have your rights infringed...


Its a slow process it all starts someplace, it doesnt happen all at once. (all I'm doing is state a fact nothing else.) Yes the rights of the people under Saddam were for a lack of a better word "infringed", but maybe the people who are complaining now simply dont want it to get worse then it is now, and one day may end up like what the Iraqi people had to suffer.

Back to the start of this post, Scrappy is there someplace thats says what kerry stated/said?

[poomba]

Was Kerry ever considered to be held for treason? Can he? I would think with his constant barrage of the government and wrongly accused soldiers would have made people think about it. Didnt he speak to many other countries about these so called "attrocities"? What about todays time? Speaking out against democracy in a subtle way. Socialist/fascist is what he seems to be wanting. Is that against any of the founding principles of our country?

Matt

Treason? Fraid not. If Hanoi Jane (Fonda) wasn't brought up on charges, doubt Kerry would be. Freedom of expression was paid for in blood, and should not be washed away in ink.Until and unless it could be proven that he was paid to hold those beliefs by a foreign power..oh, wait, then, we'd call him a lobbyist. It was a time of great political and cultural upheaval and many things were said, and many views passionately held for and against our involvment. A lot of good came from the pain..if you want to look at it this way, it taught many to question athority..surely something the founding fathers did rather pointedly. Giving comfort to the enemy is such a grey area that's it's pretty hard to prove except in extreme cases. We don't charge medics for healing enemy soldiers, we don't charge someone for voting for anyone proposing peace at any price, although, that surely, is a comfort to the enemy. Did atrocities occur? Yes, both overseas and on the home front. Is Kerry advocating facisism? Nope. Socialism? Not exactly. Social issues would receive higher priority, whether or not the country can afford those priorities, will be decided next week.
A case could be made (in Iraq) that savagry such as beheadings of unarmed workers or aid personnel deserves an eye for an eye response. A case could be made that if we become what we abhor, we have already lost too much. Vote to support your closely held ideals, and cherish the right to let others do the same. :gag: :nono:

[Matt S.]

John! thank you for a well thought out response. Sometimes I guess its hard to just accept that this is what the world has changed to. Freedom of speech is something that makes our country great. And there is no real limit on what some can say. But is interesting that those who can say whatever they want tell others they can say nothing. Politics are so funny yet disturbing. But with out them, lawlessness would be.... scary.

[JeffV]

I am not old enough to have experienced Vietnam. So I ask those who have knowledge about that time. The whole world, as well as the political climate in the US was far different than it is today.

The biased comments regarding what John Kerry did 30 years ago, is a pet peeve of mine. Too many of those "opinions" come from people who were not yet born, or too young to really understand what was going on.

If you were not old enough to be subjected to military conscription your "opinion" is only hearsay.

53,000 + American lives were lost in Viet Nam. Some would say they died in vain because we "lost" the war. I say the only way they died in vain is if we didn't learn a lesson from that war.

During that time a college deferment was the "politically correct" way of avoiding the Draft. Politicians developed that "system" to protect "their own." The military at that time was "by design" made up largely of under privileged and poor. The not so politically correct solution was to move to Canada.

Rather than face the dirty & cold hard facts of the times, it’s easier to call a dissenter a traitor. Countless war “atrocities” were committed by US soldiers. Given the circumstances of that war, I’m not sure I wouldn’t be guilty of the same. If telling the truth is treason, Kerry is guilty.

Unlike today, during that time illicit drugs were cheap & or free, and easy to come by. Some claim that the US government was behind the distribution of those drugs to "sedate" and otherwise preoccupy the younger generation of that time. The assumed goal was to reduce the growing participation in the numerous anti-war protests. As a participant and survivor of the 60's drug culture, I tend to believe that either the government or the "corporate war machine" was somewhere behind it.

May 4, 1970 at Kent State (http://www.spectacle.org/595/kent.html) is one example of how our government responded to war protestors of the time. Granted, a riot is a riot, and some of the participants overstepped the constitutional right to assembly, but the reaction was..... you decide. Today things would likely be dealt with differently. Today, bigger riots follow major sports events, but people don't suffer the same result. I suspect that if military conscription were in effect today, this political race wouldn't be as close as it is.
In my not so humble opinion the greatest travesty today is how innuendos and conjecture are used to cloud difference between anti-war, anti-military, anti-corporate war machine, and anti troops. To believe, and infer that ANYONE running for political office is anti-troops is ludicrous. The question we face in choosing our next leader is in how he prioritizes the importance of:

1.) The troops
2.) The military
3.) The war
4.) The corporate war machine
I think Kerry’s priorities are how I have them listed. I’ don’t believe Mr. Bush has his priorities in the same order.

With all that said, I'm throwing my vote away on a 3rd party candidate for one reason, and one reason only, I'm voting against the 2 party system.

[ladywolf]

just a thought, but somewhere isnt there a reg stating that if you are an officer, you arent sposed to be saying stuff like that? glenn, ecksjay, rich? i dont remember specifically if thats what it says or not, but IIRC, there was a reg. I dunno, it was just one of those off the wall thoughts

[Glenn B]

If you were not old enough to be subjected to military conscription your "opinion" is only hearsay.


Negative. My opinion is just that, an opinion. I formed it based on the words Kerry said, both from transcripts and video.

I was too young at the time to really care about politics and war back then. But that does not make my opinion of the words he spoke and allegations he made, any less valid.

[Z22_Z33]

What did he say?

[Jeepin_rebel]

You better look closer at that "Honorable Discharge" - Page 1 is a discharge after 3 months to go to Officers Indoc Training, dated 15Dec66. Page 2 is more interesting; dated 03Jan70 it shows two big discrepancies: He was under Reserve obligation until 17Feb72, but during that time he met with the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong representatives in Paris...against Naval Regulations and the UCMJ, as well as putting him in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment for the office he is seeking and the office he now holds.
It lists a "Silver Star w/Combat V" as one of his awards, although that is NEVER the method of award for the Silver Star. The one thing missing is the fact that he's a self-serving asshat and doesn't deserve to be in office anywhere in the United States.
I knew something smelled fishy,

[ECKSJAY]

<snip>An excellent read.</snip>

With all that said, I'm throwing my vote away on a 3rd party candidate for one reason, and one reason only, I'm voting against the 2 party system.

Nicely put, Jeff. Thank you.

[Sarge]

You may be able to technically charge him with treason but it wont carry. Fonda was/is legally guilty of that crime and there is plenty of proof but nothing ever happened. It would not be a pretty trial either. Hell, you could most likely charge a few who went and served multiple terms with it in some cases.

And as others have stated that aint his final DD214. Little late to worry tho. Use his record of action within his career to decide.

I'll most likely vote third party myself and do not see it as a throw-away. Not with third party canidates starting to win other levels of the elections.

Sarge