Just a quick 8.25 ?

[Timber]

Where are you guys getting the notion that no XJ with an 8.25 rear can have ABS? I bring this up because I'm researching a disc conversion, and I keep reading that on all my searches. I actually have a '99 with the 8.25 and ABS, and I'm not some moron who doesn't know the difference (the not-a-moron bit may be just an opinion). Furthermore, my father-in-law is a Jeep engineer and he's told me that the 8.25/ABS combo happened frequently (my word--I think he actually said "once in a while") after approx. '96 1/2. Not being accusatory about this, but I have no idea where it's coming from and telling people this could lead to misidentification of their axles, etc.

[xxxj-va]

Who is suggesting you ID an axle by whether it has an an ABS system?

[ZmOz]

Who is suggesting you ID an axle by whether it has an an ABS system?

I have seen TONS of people say that if it has ABS, it doesn't have an 8.25.

[Timber]

I see it on here all the time. Even Eagle has mentioned it before (not calling you out, Eagle, just saying that I've seen you mention it).

[Yucca-Man]

Interesting. That's one reason I refer people to the pictures for identification. Then again, most folks who ask which type of axle they have also aren't sure whether they have ABS or not. http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/gear1.html#axle

[Timber]

Interesting. That's one reason I refer people to the pictures for identification. Then again, most folks who ask which type of axle they have also aren't sure whether they have ABS or not. http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/gear1.html#axle
I realize this, too. I know exactly what I have on mine; I just wondered where (seemingly) everyone is getting this info.

[Darky]

A real easy way for people to ID their axles, is to get a build sheet from the dealer. I know they only go back a certain amount of years, but I know they have 96s now. No mistakes that way as long as you have stock axles :)

[ZmOz]

No mistakes that way

HA! Build sheets are full of mistakes. The build sheet for my '90 said it came with a 4.7L V8, I don't believe that engine even existed in 1990. The build sheet for my '96 says it came with tinted windows, it didn't.

[Timber]

Not trying to be rude here, guys, but I know how to find the factual info. I need--and with a few exceptions--I have it. I know many people need to be guided to what they want (I'm a librarian, for crying out loud), I've simply been wondering lately where just about everyone has gotten this (mis)information about 8.25/ABS. It's not just on this site, either. It's all over the web, and it's wrong. Maybe it's just a matter of everyone using each others' sites to say the same thing; I don't know.

[Sarge]

Timber's not saying that folks can't ID their axles. He's saying that it has been said by folks here that if you have an 8.25 axle then you don't have ABS brakes. He's wondering where this idea came from. I was curious also as I ran into a gent who has just such a beast...8.25 axle with ABS. According to Yucca-mans link the 8.25 is non-ABS but the one I looked at has a cast, flat lip on the bottom and definitely has ABS (stock).

Sarge

[Timber]

Timber's not saying that folks can't ID their axles. He's saying that it has been said by folks here that if you have an 8.25 axle then you don't have ABS brakes. He's wondering where this idea came from. I was curious also as I ran into a gent who has just such a beast...8.25 axle with ABS. According to Yucca-mans link the 8.25 is non-ABS but the one I looked at has a cast, flat lip on the bottom and definitely has ABS (stock).

Sarge
Yes, that's exactly it. I just want to know if there's some reference that I can see about this because I was starting to think I have some oddball bastard Jeep.

[Island XJ]

Yes, that's exactly it. I just want to know if there's some reference that I can see about this because I was starting to think I have some oddball bastard Jeep.Beej has an 8.25 with ABS. Came from the factory that way. Its a Canadian model SE.

[dakotaguy1999]

For what it's worth - I used to work at a Jeep dealership, and I have yet to see an XJ 8.25 rear end with ABS. I won't say they don't exist, but they're definitely a rare gem if you come across one on an XJ.

However, there ARE indeed 8.25 rear ends with ABS, and I own a vehicle with the 8.25 w/ ABS. It is my '99 Dakota, and the ABS wheel speed sensor is located on the top of the pumpkin (3 channel, 4wheel ABS). I can attach a pic for those of you who want to see. :)

The ABS system that is available on the XJs is a 4wheel, 4channel ABS system. I have yet to see an 8.25 XJ rear end that is equipped for a 4channel ABS system...

Submit pics if you have an XJ w/ ABS and an 8.25 rear end. :)

[Tom R.]

Getting back to the question...

Timber, I don't know how this notion came about. I suppose it's like anything else, where misinformation is given out so frequently that most people believe it without a second thought.

It reminds me of some posts a couple of years ago when people were saying the 8.25 first came out on XJs around '96. I thought that was odd since my '92 had one.

The best thing to do is to dispel this misinformation when it surfaces. And be prepared to back it up with facts. :)

Tom

[Timber]

All right. Now I am starting to feel like a f------ moron. I have the master cylinder for ABS. I went out and checked under the hood just two minutes ago. I also looked under the rear seat for the rear ABS electronic controller--not there. And my build sheet specifies ABS--I know, they can be wrong. There actually are a couple of minor discrepancies on it. But, is it possible to have just two-wheel ABS? I even had my ABS light stay on once and had to read the code (1571: ABS Load Signal) and clear it. What the f---? I'd post pics, but I don't have a digital camera.
The only other odd thing is that my father-in-law, a Jeep engineer, insisted that some XJs did come with the 8.25/ABS combo.

By the way, I already feel like crap now for starting this thread and finding out I may not actually have the combo, so don't beat me too badly.

[Gridikal]

A real easy way for people to ID their axles, is to get a build sheet from the dealer. I know they only go back a certain amount of years, but I know they have 96s now. No mistakes that way as long as you have stock axles :)mines a "97 and they said they cant get the build sheet any more- sadly i wish i had it

[Timber]

mines a "97 and they said they cant get the build sheet any more- sadly i wish i had it

E-mail Jeep directly with your VIN and they should send you the info. I got a response once w/in minutes.

[Gridikal]

E-mail Jeep directly with your VIN and they should send you the info. I got a response once w/in minutes.i did like a month ago- I got a response somthing like " were sorry but our records hold no info blah blah blah" and yes i made sure i typed the vin number right- funny thing was when i search for any recalls that came back fine

[Timber]

i did like a month ago- I got a response somthing like " were sorry but our records hold no info blah blah blah" and yes i made sure i typed the vin number right- funny thing was when i search for any recalls that came back fine

That sucks. There's a special e-mail address for this stuff. I don't have time this evening to look, but I'll find it and post it tomorrow.

[Beej]

Beej has an 8.25 with ABS. Came from the factory that way. Its a Canadian model SE.Actually Brett, it is a Non-ABS unit. I only thought it was ABS because I have the lights in the dash and I had that problem with the light being stuck on, and the code reader said it was an ABS problem. Turns out it was just a problem with the "sending unit" (?). I asked last time I was at the dealer. They told me that they are not aware of any ABS 8.25s on Jeeps out there as they did not think it was an option. They said that they were only aware of ABS on Dakotas and stuff. They said that they might have been sold overseas with ABS, but not in North America. The guy also said that he has not seen every jeep made and although he doesn't think so, it might be possible to find one.
Beej.

[highhilleer]

Actually Brett, it is a Non-ABS unit. I only thought it was ABS because I have the lights in the dash... Beej.

It is hard for me to understand in this day and age of law suits that Chrysler would put an ABS light on the dash on a vehicle that does not have ABS. I think it would be fairly easy for a lawyer to get rich by having a client that suffered an accident because the vehicle skidded rather than having the control offered by the ABS.
In researching the Cherokee on the internet I find conflicting reports on the rear axle used one site says all 1997 models have the 8.25 axle, others say Dana 35 with ABS, and Yucca-man's site keeps open the possibility of having either axle with ABS.
Shouldn't there be visual clues on the axles and breaks to identify the axle and the presence of ABS? I cannot see a difference in the Dana 35 and 8.25 on Yucca-man's site, what am I missing? Doesn't ABS require a speed sensor somewhere near the wheel?

[Timber]

Shouldn't there be visual clues on the axles and breaks to identify the axle and the presence of ABS? I cannot see a difference in the Dana 35 and 8.25 on Yucca-man's site, what am I missing? Doesn't ABS require a speed sensor somewhere near the wheel?[/QUOTE]
The rear sensors are inside the drum brake assembly adjacent to a tone ring. The easiest way to tell is by lifting the rear bench and, looking on the passenger's side just behind the rear-seat crossmember, identify the wiring and electronic control unit screwed/bolted to both the rocker area and floor. If all you see is the wiring tucked up under the rear-seat crossmember's lip, you don't have ABS.

I just discovered this, too, as you can see in one of my posts above. The only other real oddity mine has is that I have the correct master cyl. for having ABS. Weird.

[Kejtar]

i did like a month ago- I got a response somthing like " were sorry but our records hold no info blah blah blah" and yes i made sure i typed the vin number right- funny thing was when i search for any recalls that came back fine
That sounds like BS cause I had someone lookup the buildsheet for mine not too long ago and my current one is a 97.

Getting back to the 8.25 with ABS. AFAIK there was no general market US XJ built with that combination. There are other vehicles that have the 8.25 and ABS brakes and sometimes even disk brakes but that's where it ends. The execption might be goverment/fleet orders which get really weird stuff and the odds of one of those popping up is somewhat remote (IIRC most of those were 2wd anyways). So.... for the most part ABS is the simplest way starting point of determining the rear end, while of course the detailed visual examination being best.

[Yucca-Man]

Yucca-man's site keeps open the possibility of having either axle with ABS.That comment was changed recently only because the possibility was raised here...looks like I may be changing it back to "ABS w/D35, C8.25" without" soon.

Shouldn't there be visual clues on the axles and breaks to identify the axle and the presence of ABS? I cannot see a difference in the Dana 35 and 8.25 on Yucca-man's site, what am I missing?There are several visual cues to identify the D35 or C8.25" - first and foremost would be the Dana diamond on the D35 cover:
http://www.dana.com/internet_global/images/MainDanaLogo.jpg

The Chrysler 8.25" wont have that, instead it will have a Chrysler penta-star (five-pointed star). Of course I can't find one online with a quick Google search but will get a picture of my C8.25" cover later.

Differences -
C8.25" has a cast lip that squares off the bottom edge of the diff housing. Look at the photo and notice the bolts immediately to the left and right of the bottom center bolt. Below those two bolts you will notice two angled corners of the casting. Those are not present on the D35; it has a more rounded look to the lower side.

Dana35:
http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/image/axle_d35.jpg

The D35 cover is stamped out of heavier metal than the C8.25" and the edges of the cover are straight cuts. The C8.25" cover is slightly thinner but has a 'roll' around the outer edge just outside the bolt circle. You can see the breaks in the roll at 6 and 12 o'clock on the photo below.

C8.25"
http://www.yuccaman.com/jeep/image/axle_825.jpg

[highhilleer]

"You can see the breaks in the roll at 6 and 12 o'clock on the photo below."

Got it thanks.

What about ABS visual clues?

[ChiXJeff]

ABS visual cues? Look for the sensor wiring in the knuckles at the front. IIRC, XJ ABS systems at the rear are in the drums. Note that not all rear ABS systems are like this, my Dodge Ram 2500 uses a tone ring on the ring gear itself.

[87CherokeeChief]

So what year did ABS start showing up in XJs. My 87 has the ABS light on the dash but i dont believe it has ABS.

[Gridikal]

since when is abs hard to check for? just slam on the brakes:laugh3:

[kubtastic]

The ABS system that is available on the XJs is a 4wheel, 4channel ABS system. I have yet to see an 8.25 XJ rear end that is equipped for a 4channel ABS system...

Submit pics if you have an XJ w/ ABS and an 8.25 rear end. :)

I'm sure my XJ has 3 channel ABS. 4 sensors, yes, but there's only one brake line going to the rear axle, which then splits the flow left to right once it reaches the axle itself. I don't know whats the big deal - why couldn't Jeep put a second line right next to the first? I guess there isn't much to gain by going to 4 channel. Perhaps some XJ's have 4 channel, but not a 00 sport.