New info?- Iraq

[Gridikal]

Did I hear this right?
- Russia actualy took the however many tons of explosives befor the US invaded
-Bin Laden "endorses" Kerry if you look at the new fbi report- ABC refuses to air it b/c they claim it will hurt Bush when we all know that it would help. Is this new info going to make a difference?

[Glenn B]

Hard to tell. I have seen the reports that the Russians did move materials out, and possibly the "missing" explosives. The information is still a bit new yet to tell for sure.

Last I saw (about the tape) was that they could not, or had not yet authenticated it.

[red91]

Ted Kopell Wouldn't touch that story with a 10 foot pole, even if it is true.

[Z22_Z33]

Sure. Next thing we'll hear is russia is hiding osama, russia is bad. Look what they did after the school bombing took rights away from the people. We must liberate the russian people. Oh yeah there is a link between al quide and russia.
Maybe its true maybe its not. We'll see if what i said will happen.
Just a question i have to ask, yeah its going to be dumb.
But if it was taken out before we invaded how'd we know it was there and how much was taken out???

Bin Laden endorses kerry? What were did this claim come from, so osama is where?

How long have we been in iraq I have forgotton and year and 6 months?


WAIT A SECOND!!! WHY ARE WE DEBATING THIS NOW?! SHOULDNT THIS WEAPONS DEPOT OR WHATEVER IT IS, BEEN ONE OF THE FIRST PLACES WE STOPPED AT WHEN WE WENT INTO IRAQ??????? Doesnt anyone else find this a bit odd. We all knew what was there. The UN had been in this place before and even locked things us. So wouldnt this have been one the first places we would have gone to. According to the UN it was some serious explosives there, strong enough for a nuke. The sources are from my local newpaper, the sources from about the un. I cant seeem to find a link on the web to article.

[Urban Redneck]

Sure. Next thing we'll hear is russia is hiding osama, russia is bad. Look what they did after the school bombing took rights away from the people. We must liberate the russian people. Oh yeah there is a link between al quide and russia.
Maybe its true maybe its not. We'll see if what i said will happen.
Just a question i have to ask, yeah its going to be dumb.
But if it was taken out before we invaded how'd we know it was there and how much was taken out???

Bin Laden endorses kerry? What were did this claim come from, so osama is where?

How long have we been in iraq I have forgotton and year and 6 months?


WAIT A SECOND!!! WHY ARE WE DEBATING THIS NOW?! SHOULDNT THIS WEAPONS DEPOT OR WHATEVER IT IS, BEEN ONE OF THE FIRST PLACES WE STOPPED AT WHEN WE WENT INTO IRAQ??????? Doesnt anyone else find this a bit odd. We all knew what was there. The UN had been in this place before and even locked things us. So wouldnt this have been one the first places we would have gone to. According to the UN it was some serious explosives there, strong enough for a nuke. The sources are from my local newpaper, the sources from about the un. I cant seeem to find a link on the web to article.

Do yourself and everyone else a favor and STFU. We knew it was there before we invaded because it was tagged by the IAEA. The same group now saying that it was gone before we got in. Look back in your history book, Russia was and still is a bunch of bastards. If they could have, they would have blown our asses into the last century. Russia has always backed countries and dictators that were against us. As for this being the first place we went...do you have any idea where this is? Remember, there was a fawking war going on. Don't really have time to stop and look at stuff when people are shooting at you. Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts? You can't have it both ways...the WMDs were never there, but they were there, but not their gone...

[RichP]

This is one of the things that really ticks me off about the media and the $#%*&@ armchair generals every REMF politician, 15 seconds of fame commentator and critic becomes and people listen and believe from these BS spewing mouths, sheesh. When you are in the attack you dont stop for anything, period, no smelling the roses, couple of quick beers, nothing. YOU JUST GO and KEEP GOING, you don't stop to explore. The clean up or follow up units *may* be interested but thats the job of the intel boys NOT THE GRUNTS and only the intel sections when the real fighting is over. I will make one concession, there should have been a security detachment and an engineer unit left behind or deployed to the base if they were available to start looking it over, *maybe*, but when you're up to your butt in alligators you don't worry about draining the swamp. Who if anyone dropped the ball, who knows, you'll never get a straight unbiased answer from the media. Think on this, show me a media commentary or report that says 'they did a good job', EVERY SINGLE media report is ALWAYS 100% of the time, critical of EVERY THING WE DO OVER THERE and they seem to take great pride in nit picking every negative thing they can find and if they can't find any they make them up.. If they do find a positive they work their asses off to throw a negative spin on it...

Show me the last news reports that showed the medical units and such treating civilians, adults and children, for eveyday injuries, you can't but it happens every day over there.

Some interesting reading on the coincidental 'timing' of this missing materials.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/InternationalOrganizations/wm596.cfm

[8Mud]

When I first heard the report, a few questions jumped out at me. I was trained in the military, to destroy battle damaged equipement (mainly fire control instruments and big guns), whom better than a mechanic to train, to screw something up :laugh3: , along with some HAZMAT training. Pretty good school, they gave you the info and let you use your ingenuity to figure out the methods.
RDX or MDX, is pretty stable stuff, they use it in cannon shells, yes they fire it out of gun tubes. If I remember correctly, by wieght RDX has 20% more energy than TNT (which is mostly filler). Off the top of my head, I can think of a dozen, compounds, that have more energy per pound than RDX, that I can buy at the store.
RDX is a commercial product, used to make everything from shoe soles, to deodorant.
The amount missing, isn´t like advertised, the largest stash in history, it´s maybe a very small percentage of what´s produced by Dupont. And a pretty small part, of the total amount in Iraq (canon projectiles are filled with it).
RDX or MDX has a shelf life of about 10 years and retails for about $7-10 a pound. Not that hard to come by, most every country in the world has on hand, much more RDX, than has gone missing in Iraq, many by a factor of thousands.
Next question, is where did it come from? The RDX production facilities in Iraq, were destroyed in the first gulf war. If it was left overs, it´s shelf life could be near it´s end. If not, somebody was shipping it in, dispite the sanctions.
Remember $7-10 a pound retail. Wholesale maybe $2-3 pound= $1,500,000-2,000,000. About a dozen containers or 6 rail cars full.
Personnaly, I´d like to see, the results of the floor sweepings of the storage facility, and the cellulit tracers, which will tell, whom manufactured it.
Oh and by the way, RDX isn´t SDBS (super dupper bad stuff), but it´s not something you want to scatter around in your garden either. It´s a hazardous material, but then again so is Cocacola or gasoline.

[Z22_Z33]

do you have any idea where this is? Remember, there was a fawking war going on. Don't really have time to stop and look at stuff when people are shooting at you. Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts? You can't have it both ways...the WMDs were never there, but they were there, but not their gone...

So what your saying is its ok to leave weapons out in the open so your enemy can get a hold of them later? Isnt one of the first rules of war to make sure your enemy cant fight back. So by leaving this large stockpile of explosives that can be looted that would be ok? So we're not sure if the stuff has passed the shelf life or not, so all the more reason to make sure it doesnt fall in the wrong hands. Hindsight has nothing to do with this, its a war, you want to make sure the enemy cant fight you. Looks like being an Eagle Scout has taught me something, to bad your candy *** couldnt come close to what I and others have achieved. And could it not be possible that WMDS might just be in a weapons depot, that could later be used against the troops?? So why not destroy the facilty by air or with ground forces as soon as possible.

[Glenn B]

#1 Read the rules. No need to insult or call names.

#2 How old are you? Did you serve? Where and when?


So what your saying is its ok to leave weapons out in the open so your enemy can get a hold of them later? Isnt one of the first rules of war to make sure your enemy cant fight back. So by leaving this large stockpile of explosives that can be looted that would be ok? So we're not sure if the stuff has passed the shelf life or not, so all the more reason to make sure it doesnt fall in the wrong hands. Hindsight has nothing to do with this, its a war, you want to make sure the enemy cant fight you. Looks like being an Eagle Scout has taught me something, to bad your candy *** couldnt come close to what I and others have achieved. And couldnt it be possible the WMDS might just be in a weapons depot, that could later be used against the troops?? So why not destroy the facilty by air or with ground forces.

[Z22_Z33]

#1 Read the rules. No need to insult or call names.

#2 How old are you? Did you serve? Where and when?

So there is no rule saying "make sure the enemy cant/doesnt have the capabilty to fight you or infict mass damages" Or am I just wrong here?
So the air raids over Europe during the second world war were pointless, we should have just bombed the troops instead?

What does my age, whether or not I served have to do with this. Yes I relieze this is a war, things are hard to do but on the other hand they must be done.

Hahaha, no need to insult? Why dont you tell that to Urban Redneck.

[Fergie]

Looks like being an Eagle Scout has taught me something, to bad your candy *** couldnt come close to what I and others have achieved.

Look Z, what you don't understand is that I, and thousands of my brothers and sisters in arms are willing to lay down our lives for you, just so you can talk the way you do.

If you want any respect here or in life, get off your high horse. Serving in the military is much more noble and dangerous than being an Eagle Scout. You want to achieve something? Go see your recruiter and offer you life for the rights you and others have.

Fergie

[Glenn B]

Oh, he is in the Boy Scouts? Than explains the naive outlook.

When you are old enough to join the Military, do consider it. It will help you grow in to a man.

NOTE: not intended as an isult, just advice.
Look Z, what you don't understand is that I, and thousands of my brothers and sisters in arms are willing to lay down our lives for you, just so you can talk the way you do.

If you want any respect here or in life, get off your high horse. Serving in the military is much more noble and dangerous than being an Eagle Scout. You want to achieve something? Go see your recruiter and offer you life for the rights you and others have.

Fergie

[red91]

Oh, he is in the Boy Scouts? Than explains the naive outlook.

When you are old enough to join the Military, do consider it. It will help you grow in to a man.

NOTE: not intended as an isult, just advice.


dont encourage him. The military needs people to FOLLOW orders, not sit around a play e-lance corperal (SP?) all day...Jeez Glenn... you must want some of us to be shot at... :gag:

He ain't cut out for the military in any sense and you know it...

[red91]

Look Z, what you don't understand is that I, and thousands of my brothers and sisters in arms are willing to lay down our lives for you, just so you can talk the way you do.

If you want any respect here or in life, get off your high horse. Serving in the military is much more noble and dangerous than being an Eagle Scout. You want to achieve something? Go see your recruiter and offer you life for the rights you and others have.

Fergie


Thank you again, and again , and again...:worship:

[Fergie]

Thank you again, and again , and again...:worship:
I'll tell ya what, I got freakin teary-eyed yesterday over a news story I saw:

A Sgt. in the 25th over in Iraq hadnt seen his kids in 9 months or so and was supposed to be gone for another while. He got a surprise 2 week leave to go home and visit his kids. He surprised his son and daughter at their school in the middle of the day.

Man, those kid's reaction when they saw their Dad, and his reaction to them...

Those are the folks that deserve thanks...not me.

Fergie

[Glenn B]

dont encourage him. The military needs people to FOLLOW orders, not sit around a play e-lance corperal (SP?) all day...Jeez Glenn... you must want some of us to be shot at... :gag:

He ain't cut out for the military in any sense and you know it...
Those types are generaly sent home during the first weeks of Basic Training.... the Military is pretty good at weeding out the week.... though some do get by.

[Glenn B]

I get teary eyed as well at those stories. A true patriot never wants to see folks in harms way, but we understand why. We also know how to cherish a home coming and seeing those that make it all worth while.


I'll tell ya what, I got freakin teary-eyed yesterday over a news story I saw:

A Sgt. in the 25th over in Iraq hadnt seen his kids in 9 months or so and was supposed to be gone for another while. He got a surprise 2 week leave to go home and visit his kids. He surprised his son and daughter at their school in the middle of the day.

Man, those kid's reaction when they saw their Dad, and his reaction to them...

Those are the folks that deserve thanks...not me.

Fergie

[Urban Redneck]

Looks like being an Eagle Scout has taught me something, to bad your candy *** couldnt come close to what I and others have achieved...

When you walk 1 foot in my shoes, then you can judge me, KID. Go buy a ** clue, put the bong down, let go of the tree...don't you have to save one of your rock heros from blowing his brains out? Hope your Eagle Scout training taught you how to....never mind, you're not worth it...

[Jeepin_rebel]

So there is no rule saying "make sure the enemy cant/doesnt have the capabilty to fight you or infict mass damages" Or am I just wrong here?
So the air raids over Europe during the second world war were pointless, we should have just bombed the troops instead?

What does my age, whether or not I served have to do with this. Yes I relieze this is a war, things are hard to do but on the other hand they must be done.

Hahaha, no need to insult? Why dont you tell that to Urban Redneck.
Ya know there is alot more going on over there that what they show you in the media. Like scuds and things like that. The hundreds of bunkers filled with thousands of RPG's, AK-47's, Morters and thing that we have to dodge every time we went out. So try getting informed befor you talk about things you dont really understand.

Look Z, what you don't understand is that I, and thousands of my brothers and sisters in arms are willing to lay down our lives for you, just so you can talk the way you do.

If you want any respect here or in life, get off your high horse. Serving in the military is much more noble and dangerous than being an Eagle Scout. You want to achieve something? Go see your recruiter and offer you life for the rights you and others have.

Fergie
Oh, he is in the Boy Scouts? Than explains the naive outlook.

When you are old enough to join the Military, do consider it. It will help you grow in to a man.

NOTE: not intended as an isult, just advice.
Glenn, Fergie Very well said I think

[Jeepin_rebel]

Before I joined the Army I thought I was patriotic. Then after I joined that gave me even more respect for our country. NOTHING even compares to how the sight of Ole Glory and what it stands for, makes you feel after you have been shot at and fought for our country. Many men and women have died fighting for our grand flag , someone’s brother, mother, father, sister, son, or daughter. That’s something that deserves respect and if you don’t.... well I don’t know what to tell you

[Lupine]

I do not believe that there is anything that I could write that conveys how grateful I am to have the U. S. Military fighting for my freedom. Thanks, all.

[red91]

I'll tell ya what, I got freakin teary-eyed yesterday over a news story I saw:

A Sgt. in the 25th over in Iraq hadnt seen his kids in 9 months or so and was supposed to be gone for another while. He got a surprise 2 week leave to go home and visit his kids. He surprised his son and daughter at their school in the middle of the day.

Man, those kid's reaction when they saw their Dad, and his reaction to them...

Those are the folks that deserve thanks...not me.

Fergie


how bout the soldier who's wife had...whatever you call 5 kids at once. Family of 4 is now 9...ouch. Talk about a leathal weapon!

[red91]

Do yourself and everyone else a favor and STFU. Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts?

His rear end must be sore considering how many time this Eagle Scout thing has come back and kicked him there...Glad I didn't open the E.S. door...

He's young. MAYBE he'll learn. I don't think the Scouts offered a hindsight badge. Sewing yes, hindsight no.

[Gridikal]

Geeze my tread gew kinda fast didnt it?:chef:



dont encourage him. The military needs people to FOLLOW orders, not sit around a play e-lance corperal (SP?) all day...Jeez Glenn... you must want some of us to be shot at... :gag:

He ain't cut out for the military in any sense and you know it...I agree just like those people that disobeyed a direct order to drive those truck over in iraq- what they do? call their mommy and tell them to "raise hell" wtf do they think? they're going to get a free ride in the millitary? these "service men and women" need to be court marshelled.

- on another point, I dont think it would be a good idea to have any type of draft- back door or the otherwise, then we would get more of the incident I stated above- however if their was one, I'm almost 19 and I for one would be packing my bags if I were called upon

[Gridikal]

stupid quote button

[Urban Redneck]

- on another point, I dont think it would be a good idea to have any type of draft- back door or the otherwise, then we would get more of the incident I stated above- however if their was one, I'm almost 19 and I for one would be packing my bags..


There is no draft. No back door, front door, through the freaking window draft, period. There was a vote for one in the Senate...only one vote, from a Democrap...go figure....

[Z22_Z33]

Lets see how can I say this without anyone taking it the wrong way. Well I dont think thats possible.

He insulted me, he didnt need to bring up me being an Eagle Scout. I do not like it when people do that. Of course I am going to defend myself and insult him.

Now if someone could point out in all my posts on here, where I said me being an Eagle Scout I am better then anyone else, or how you think that I said being an Eagle Scout is better then being in the armed forces.

If I am not mistaken I have not said any of that.
By the way I didnt bring the Eagle Scout thing up, the (explitive delated) urban red neck brought that one up. You could have just said its hingsight, and didnt have to put your comment in there about me. And people say I shouldnt put comments in my posts.


"please watch your personal attacks. No one likes to see people get booted off our club board."

Watch my personal attacks? I believe I was the one attacked first here. So simply because I am trying to stand up for myself I deserve to get shot down for that? And deserve to be portrayed as the a**hole? “Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts?” Now how is this not a personal attack at me? That’s basically the same as making fun of someone because of their religion, nationality, or color of skin. Well that is how I view, it is to bad no one else can see this.

[Eagle]

Lets see how can I say this without anyone taking it the wrong way. Well I dont think thats possible.

He insulted me, he didnt need to bring up me being an Eagle Scout. I do not like it when people do that. Of course I am going to defend myself and insult him.

Now if someone could point out in all my posts on here, where I said me being an Eagle Scout I am better then anyone else, or how you think that I said being an Eagle Scout is better then being in the armed forces.

If I am not mistaken I have not said any of that.
By the way I didnt bring the Eagle Scout thing up, the (explitive delated) urban red neck brought that one up. You could have just said its hingsight, and didnt have to put your comment in there about me. And people say I shouldnt put comments in my posts.


"please watch your personal attacks. No one likes to see people get booted off our club board."

Watch my personal attacks? I believe I was the one attacked first here. So simply because I am trying to stand up for myself I deserve to get shot down for that? And deserve to be portrayed as the a**hole? “Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts?” Now how is this not a personal attack at me? That’s basically the same as making fun of someone because of their religion, nationality, or color of skin. Well that is how I view, it is to bad no one else can see this.
Reality Check: Perhaps you did not bring up the Eagle Scout thing in this thread, but you certainly brought it up. And the way in which you did -- multiple veiled references to some mysterious, unidentified accomplishment that YOU had achieved (as though you were the only person in the entire Universe to have ever done what you did), and then finally telling us what this top secret achievement was only after you had been hammered multiple times, clearly sets you up for periodic reminders.

I was a Boy Scout for a number of years. I'll freely admit that I never made Eagle Scout -- I quit the program after they wouldn't pass me on the knot tying merit badge because they didn't like the way I tied a bowline. Mind you, I was taught how to tie a bowline by an English sailor who had sailed around the world single-handed, and I had been a sailing instructor for three years at the time. Go figure.

The last kid who made Eagle Scout in my home town got it for ... painting the fire hydrants. Cool -- he did a nice job and I'm sure the fire department appreciated the help. But in the overall frame of reference of the world and life, painting fire hydrants doesn't seem to me such a great accomplishment. If that's all it takes to make Eagle Scout, then I think every serviceman (and servicewoman) who makes it through basic training and AIT should automatically be awarded Eagle Scout status, because they have truly accomplished something to be proud of.

There's a very old saying we used to hear when I was young (back in the stone age): "Be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear." Perhaps you might consider that advice before putting your keyboard in gear.

Finally, the forum rules clearly prohibit insults. If you feel you have been attacked, the forum rules also state that you should IGNORE the thread. If you're certain it's an intentional insult, use the "Report Post" feature and if a moderator agrees it's a violation, he/she will nuke it for you. And lastly, it is possible to defend yourself without resorting to insults. Using an insult to respond to an insult is not a defense, it's an admission that you aren't any better than the person who insulted you.

[Z22_Z33]

Reality Check: Perhaps you did not bring up the Eagle Scout thing in this thread, but you certainly brought it up. And the way in which you did -- multiple veiled references to some mysterious, unidentified accomplishment that YOU had achieved (as though you were the only person in the entire Universe to have ever done what you did), and then finally telling us what this top secret achievement was only after you had been hammered multiple times, clearly sets you up for periodic reminders.

I was a Boy Scout for a number of years. I'll freely admit that I never made Eagle Scout -- I quit the program after they wouldn't pass me on the knot tying merit badge because they didn't like the way I tied a bowline. Mind you, I was taught how to tie a bowline by an English sailor who had sailed around the world single-handed, and I had been a sailing instructor for three years at the time. Go figure.

The last kid who made Eagle Scout in my home town got it for ... painting the fire hydrants. Cool -- he did a nice job and I'm sure the fire department appreciated the help. But in the overall frame of reference of the world and life, painting fire hydrants doesn't seem to me such a great accomplishment. If that's all it takes to make Eagle Scout, then I think every serviceman (and servicewoman) who makes it through basic training and AIT should automatically be awarded Eagle Scout status, because they have truly accomplished something to be proud of.

There's a very old saying we used to hear when I was young (back in the stone age): "Be sure brain is engaged before putting mouth in gear." Perhaps you might consider that advice before putting your keyboard in gear.

Finally, the forum rules clearly prohibit insults. If you feel you have been attacked, the forum rules also state that you should IGNORE the thread. If you're certain it's an intentional insult, use the "Report Post" feature and if a moderator agrees it's a violation, he/she will nuke it for you. And lastly, it is possible to defend yourself without resorting to insults. Using an insult to respond to an insult is not a defense, it's an admission that you aren't any better than the person who insulted you.

No you are wrong about that, the last thread about me being in Eagle Scout, was of course dumb of me to put my comment in there. How many times must I explain myself? I simply wanted answers to the questions I asked. I did not want any useless comments from people against me. Ok, can you please point out to me where I said "I’m an eagle scout I’m better then all of you" or even in more subtle terms. I have not said that anywhere or anyplace.
I got angry at redneck that is all. From my experiences people don’t much listen when you complain, but instead I have to go directly to the person who said such things against me. If then it doesn’t work I might think of complaining to someone, but that usually never solves a thing.

Maybe if you made Eagle Scout you'd have a better understanding of it. Someone doesn’t get Eagle Scout simply by painting something.
Well I can see why it wouldn’t have been possible for you to make Eagle Scout. So instead of trying to show you know better, or show how you were in fact right, you quit. Now I'm not saying you do this by force, but simply show that your way is better. Then again if you did try this, and the adults still believed you were wrong then it is not your fault but theirs instead. Now I don’t believe someone quits something over something so small, there must have been more to why you left the scouts. For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.

Basic training should be associated with an Eagle Scout? What are you man crazy? How do you come to this conclusion if you yourself are not an Eagle Scout, or even really know what it takes?
Basic training makes soldiers, that is all. People who will kill and who will obey. How is this anything remotely similar to one being an Eagle Scout?
So what you are saying is that simply because they are proud of what they accomplished, some how that is the same as me being proud to be an Eagle Scout? Apples and oranges that is what you’re trying to compare.

I will try to remeber from now on that if I have a complaint to talk to whoever is in "charge" around these parts.

[Glenn B]

I might suggest a smaller shovel to prevent you from digging that hole as quickly. :)

I am not even going to touch on your Boy Scouting stuff. Frankly, I does not matter.

Your comments about Basic Training are so off base that it is not even funny. If you think all Basic does is train people to kill, you need to do some learning. Discipline, respect, team work, pride are just a few of the more basic components. Ability to lead and follow, think as a unit, care for yourself and others, knowing how to use and survive by depending on your equipment... as well as marksmanship, etc... are a few more components. Physical fitness is a huge part.

The best part is that at least in todays military, their are more than enough people willing to join up. Though the reasons vary, it is the best thing some people will ever do in their lifetime. The fundamentals learned in the military guide many for life.

However, many do flunk out as well.

No you are wrong about that, the last thread about me being in Eagle Scout, was of course dumb of me to put my comment in there. How many times must I explain myself? I simply wanted answers to the questions I asked. I did not want any useless comments from people against me. Ok, can you please point out to me where I said "I’m an eagle scout I’m better then all of you" or even in more subtle terms. I have not said that anywhere or anyplace.
I got angry at redneck that is all. From my experiences people don’t much listen when you complain, but instead I have to go directly to the person who said such things against me. If then it doesn’t work I might think of complaining to someone, but that usually never solves a thing.

Maybe if you made Eagle Scout you'd have a better understanding of it. Someone doesn’t get Eagle Scout simply by painting something.
Well I can see why it wouldn’t have been possible for you to make Eagle Scout. So instead of trying to show you know better, or show how you were in fact right, you quit. Now I'm not saying you do this by force, but simply show that your way is better. Then again if you did try this, and the adults still believed you were wrong then it is not your fault but theirs instead. Now I don’t believe someone quits something over something so small, there must have been more to why you left the scouts. For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.

Basic training should be associated with an Eagle Scout? What are you man crazy? How do you come to this conclusion if you yourself are not an Eagle Scout, or even really know what it takes?
Basic training makes soldiers, that is all. People who will kill and who will obey. How is this anything remotely similar to one being an Eagle Scout?
So what you are saying is that simply because they are proud of what they accomplished, some how that is the same as me being proud to be an Eagle Scout? Apples and oranges that is what you’re trying to compare.

I will try to remeber from now on that if I have a complaint to talk to whoever is in "charge" around these parts.

[Z22_Z33]

I might suggest a smaller shovel to prevent you from digging that hole as quickly. :)

I am not even going to touch on your Boy Scouting stuff. Frankly, I does not matter.

Your comments about Basic Training are so off base that it is not even funny. If you think all Basic does is train people to kill, you need to do some learning. Discipline, respect, team work, pride are just a few of the more basic components. Ability to lead and follow, think as a unit, care for yourself and others, knowing how to use and survive by depending on your equipment... as well as marksmanship, etc... are a few more components. Physical fitness is a huge part.

The best part is that at least in todays military, their are more than enough people willing to join up. Though the reasons vary, it is the best thing some people will ever do in their lifetime. The fundamentals learned in the military guide many for life.

However, many do flunk out as well.


Wow about time some realizes that. My boy scouting stuff doesn’t matter and does not in anyway shape or form need to be brought up. Especially when it is used to attack me.
I see what you’re saying about basic training. But its main goal is to create soldiers, right? Just a friendly remainder to anyone out there, please don’t pick on me. It won’t be enjoyable for anyone on these boards. Now since people will take this the wrong way let me explain myself. If someone makes fun of you for something you have accomplished, then you would do the same thing I do. Get angry, and might say something against the person who made the nasty comment about you. We all see what it’s done to this post, not one mention of the 350 tons of explosives, since the incident against me began.
Alright I think that is enough about this stuff. Why don’t we return to the point of this post. We have all said what we needed to, myself included.

[Sarge]

If someone makes fun of you for something you have accomplished, then you would do the same thing I do. Get angry, and might say something against the person who made the nasty comment about you. We all see what it’s done to this post, not one mention of the 350 tons of explosives, since the incident against me began.


You want folks to stop jumping you? Then remember some manners. You come in all hot and bothered and acting like your opinion is "The" opinion and can't understand why you catch flack. Having been a scout and around scouts a long time, your attitude and manners would have gotten you some serious crap when I was in. Seems the ranks have slipped.

As for the 350 tons of the stuff...it's been talked about. The timing smells, there is no way the unit which found it could have left a guard on it. If they did this every time they found something then shortly there would be no one left in the unit. The information was forwarded on to be used by higher-ups. In that time frame there is a possibility the stuff went away with other American units a little at a time, maybe other nations such as Russia "borrowed" it, maybe the bad guys got it. On one hand they could have destroyed it but it would have destroyed a good chunk of usable real estate. On the other, why destroy it? It may cmoe in handy later.

Did the unit actually see the stuff? That's a pretty big base with a hell of a lot of bunkers. I'm sure they didn't have time to search each and every one. Either way, we here do not have all the information and most likely never will. Without ALL the info we can't make an informed decision.

Sarge

[Eagle]

For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.
Reality Check Number 2:

I was an Explorer post advisor for a number of years. Don't try to talk down to me sonny, and don't try to tell me that the Boy Scouts is a "boy run" organization, because I know better.

[Sarge]

For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.

They teach you to lie now? I seem to remember a lot of adults running things. Oh wait, I was one of them.

Sarge

[Z22_Z33]

Well no wonder neither of you or anyone else seem to care for the Scouting program anymore. The adults have taken charge. Maybe we tend to do things a little different out here, and not for the worst. It is a boy run organization that is what it is suppose to be. It seems though as the adults have forgotten that little fact. During my last few months as a Boy Scout, we had a change in Scout Master; this man was intent on running the troop much like the cub scouts. Were the adults make the decisions, not the boys. Oddly enough the ranks of my old troop began to shrink. Simply no one found it fun anymore. Instead of us boys running things he and the adults took charge. If you would like to go back in time you could see how my troop was run. Us scouts out in front and the parents in the back simply watching. Yes there are things young boys can’t do that adults can, but who decides where and when are the boys then the adults will need to do what they can only do, the rest is left to the scouters.

Yes I might have come in like my opinion is the opinion, well guess what the opinion is just mine. We were having a somewhat civilized argument. Then some one decides to attack me, but not only me but what I have done in the past. At that point is when I got "hot and bothered.”

[CW]

http://www.digitalend.com/pics/funny036.jpg....

[Z22_Z33]

I know I am not suppose to technically respond to these posts. But is this really needed? Please take this off.

[Captain Ron]

... I was a Boy Scout for a number of years. I'll freely admit that I never made Eagle Scout -- I quit the program after they wouldn't pass me on the knot tying merit badge because they didn't like the way I tied a bowline. Mind you, I was taught how to tie a bowline by an English sailor who had sailed around the world single-handed, and I had been a sailing instructor for three years at the time. Go figure. ...OT:

Now see what learning from the Limeys gottcha? If you'da done it one handed, a la Steve McQueen, you would have made "Eagle" Scout no problem.

--ron

[Eagle]

OT:

Now see what learning from the Limeys gottcha? If you'da done it one handed, a la Steve McQueen, you would have made "Eagle" Scout no problem.

--ron
:)

That's how I was taught to do it. The "official" Boy Scout method (at least at that time) was the old "the rabbit comes out of the hole, runs around the tree and goes back into the hole" bit. They couldn't understand how I was doing a bowline one-handed in a quarter of the time the "offical" method required, thus I didn't get the badge.

[Eagle]

Well no wonder neither of you or anyone else seem to care for the Scouting program anymore. The adults have taken charge. Maybe we tend to do things a little different out here, and not for the worst. It is a boy run organization that is what it is suppose to be. It seems though as the adults have forgotten that little fact.
Time out.

The Boy Scouts have been around for what, 100 years? 150 years? And you're how old, 17, maybe 18? You weren't there when the organization was founded. Since when have the adults "taken charge"? The Boy Scouts have always been an adult-run organization, and was always "supposed to be" an adult run organization. Contrary to your assertions based on your limited life experience, it appears to me that your particular troop (or post if you made it to Explorer) is the exception, not the general rule. It also sounds a lot like the inmates running the asylum.

I very much doubt that the scouts actually run the organization. The adults may allow you a degree of autonomy under their supervision, but I'm sure they retain veto power and ultimate control.

[Z22_Z33]

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

[Glenn B]

I see you traded in that shovel for a back-hoe eh?
shame.
Glenn

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

[XJJPR]

Once you know some of the history of scouting you may speak up. Other then that keep your mouth closed. Boy Scouting was incorporated here in 1910. In 1907 Baden-Powell held the first campout for Scouts. The organization hasn’t been around anywhere as long as you said. Were you around when it was started? I think not, so why state I know nothing of the program when you yourself where not around when it started.
It is a boy run organization. As I stated before there are only things the parents can do the boys can’t do. The adults have ultimate control? No I am afraid not. Adults would like to think they have ultimate control, so they force the boys to believe this. The boys run the troop not the adults. The troop leaders (boys not adults) decide where we should go camping and organize other such events during the PLC, but ideas are also thrown around at troop meetings so everyone has a say. Some would like to think final say may be left with the adults, but that is what the adults would like to think. Instead of telling us no you can’t do that it, it is suppose to be how can you accomplish this? I am curious to how you got this wild idea in your head. Could it be because the parents believe they should be the ones running things and took charge? The best example I can use here is the knot tying. The adults would like to think they know best and that you are wrong. I am sorry if you had to be stuck with such horrible people. If you would have been in my troop instead it would have been, “how’d you do that, show it to me, that’s great.” You would have easily got that merit badge. You want to complain to someone complain to the people who ran the scouts how it isn’t suppose to be, instead of complaining about the whole organization. Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

Lots of words for:

"I made an incorrect statement so let me clarify, BSA is ran by adults but the little troop in Wa. I was in, the adults let us little boys make some of our own decisions so we felt like we were real men!"

:rolleyes:

Dude, did they teach you "quite while you're head is still above dirt"?

Guess not.


hinkley

[Z22_Z33]

How am I digging a hole?
Since you people think I know nothing. Then what role do the adults have in Boy Scouts, and what role do the boys have?

[XJJPR]

How am I digging a hole?
Since you people think I know nothing. Then what role do the adults have in Boy Scouts, and what role do the boys have?

Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?

:rolleyes:

hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

[Glenn B]

I spent a bit of time looking through the BSA site earlier. Specificaly the rules and guidelines areas.

It was very clear the adults are their to guide, teach, and mentor...... as well as make most decisions. Sure they may let the kiddies handle some tasks, but the certainly do not run it.

Looking at the Mission Statement, Goals etc..... it is very clear some people completely missed many lessons, or have reverted back to the traits of pre-Cub Scouts.

But hey, they can start a fire. :D

Don't get me wrong. The Scouts are a great Org for homophobes, and do great things for some children.

Glenn

BTW Mark, that last thought crossed my mind as well. Sadly, it is not him.
Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?

:rolleyes:

hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

[Sarge]

Let's see:

Boy Scout Council -- All adults
Scoutmasters -- Adults
Camp counselors -- For the most part adults, teenager councelors are heavily supervised.

Yes, the Scouts themselves do much of the day to day and meeting items. With an adult there to steer them back if they screw up. Done this way in order to prepare you better for life as an adult. Boy-run would mean no steering. Use the Jamboree as an example...the adults may stay back but they definitely watch and steer and intercede as needed.

Eagle wasn't far off either. Scouts have been around 97 years using the campout as a start date or 94 years using the incorp date.

Whatever happened to (specifically #5):

Scout Law
TRUSTWORTHY
A Scout tells the truth. He keeps his promises. Honesty is part of his code of conduct. People can depend on him.
LOYAL
A Scout is true to his family, Scout leaders, friends, school, and nation.
HELPFUL
A Scout is concerned about other people. He does things willingly for others without pay or reward.
FRIENDLY
A Scout is a friend to all. He is a brother to other Scouts. He seeks to understand others. He respects those with ideas and customs other than his own.
COURTEOUS
A Scout is polite to everyone regardless of age or position. He knows good manners make it easier for people to get along together.
KIND
A Scout understands there is strength in being gentle. He treats others as he wants to be treated. He does not hurt or kill harmless things without reason.
OBEDIENT
A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobey them.
CHEERFUL
A Scout looks for the bright side of things. He cheerfully does tasks that come his way. He tries to make others happy.
THRIFTY
A Scout works to pay his way and to help others. He saves for unforeseen needs. He protects and conserves natural resources. He carefully uses time and property.
BRAVE
A Scout can face danger even if he is afraid. He has the courage to stand for what he thinks is right even if others laugh at or threaten him.
CLEAN
A Scout keeps his body and mind fit and clean. He goes around with those who believe in living by these same ideals. He helps keep his home and community clean.
REVERENT
A Scout is reverent toward God. He is faithful in his religious duties. He respects the beliefs of others.

You aren't only scout here, probably not even the only Eagle.

Sarge

[Gridikal]

Sooooooooooo hows that new info in Iraq coming along? No disrespect intended here but couldn't you guys like PM each other or sumthing? I have 1 page of Iraq info and 3 pages of BSA info.- regaurdless, this has been interesting to read

Edit- thought I might as well throw my .02 in on the BSA though. I went through cub scouts as most kids my age did, I had 4 friends go on through boy scouts to become Eagle scouts- while it was a good many years of work, I didnt see anything spectacular about it, and to top it off three of them are the biggest hippie pot-smokers I know of, and the other tried to kill himself a few years back.

[Z22_Z33]

Please stop making yourself look so foolish.

Direct from the scouting website:

Mission Statement
The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.

If adults aren't running the place then who are the "young people".

Scouting has always been about adults showing boys what is right and what is wrong growing up in this world.

You'll never sell any reasonable thinking person that all scouting is ran by kids, it just not going to happen!

How did you become a Eagle Scout? Some kid told you were one?

:rolleyes:

hinkley


BTW are you really xjguy?

No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”

This taken straight from the official website. So is what you put up.
“Purpose of the BSA
The Boy Scouts of America was incorporated to provide a program for community organizations that offers effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth.
Specifically, the BSA endeavors to develop American citizens who are physically, mentally, and emotionally fit; have a high degree of self-reliance as evidenced in such qualities as initiative, courage, and resourcefulness; have personal values based on religious concepts; have the desire and skills to help others; understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems; are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world; have a keen respect for the basic rights of all people; and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.”

So now where in there or what you put in this post, does it say that adults run the show? Have a high degree of self-reliance. Now how does one become self reliant if someone else is running everything?
Here is something else pulled from that same site you pulled your facts off of.
“First, the Scout learns. Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop and by active participation in troop program. His patrol activities are directed toward the skills he needs. Every troop hike, camping trip, or other activity offers potential learning experiences. A Scout learns to pitch a tent by pitching one, to use a compass by finding directions, and to cook a meal by having to prepare and eat it.”

Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop? Wait according to all you people it comes from the adults.
Ok here is the link to Eagle Scout.
http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-516.html

[Glenn B]

Last I saw, it was very possible the Russians removed it. Either way, the press stories are so conflicting... I think it was just an attempt to discredit the administration.

[Gridikal]

Last I saw, it was very possible the Russians removed it. Either way, the press stories are so conflicting... I think it was just an attempt to discredit the administration.yet another attept from the NY times- didnt they first say it? although it happened like last april or so?

[Glenn B]

That post fails to mention how the kids are in charge. Can you point it out? It discusses:
"Offers.....Training". Oh, I forgot, cub scouts are born with the vast knowledge, that as they grow to be a teen in puberty, they are capable of teaching everything. :) Or is it the Adults that train these kids, and then let them work together? Hmmm

"BSA endeavors to develop". Hmm, looks like adults with some sort of knowledge must be involved in leading this endeavor. Kiddies to not endeavor this with no direction or skills developement. :)

"understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems". And they do all of this on their own? You already said your History books in school only had a paragraph or so on D-Day. Interesting how kids suddenly have the vast knowledge to educate themselves on such important matters. Wait, now I know where the Young Democrats come from. :)

"are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world" Give me examples. If adults are not leading you, you are relying on your deficient school books? Or?

"and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.” By who? Hopefully not these same history text books again. It seems some missed out on how to "participate in", but took that to mean "whine about..".

You are however, very proficient in the use of a shovel to dig yourself quite a nice hole, as well as the lack of knowing which battles to choose. Of course, you may need "basic Training" for that, as they only create Killers. :D
No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”

This taken straight from the official website. So is what you put up.
“Purpose of the BSA
The Boy Scouts of America was incorporated to provide a program for community organizations that offers effective character, citizenship, and personal fitness training for youth.
Specifically, the BSA endeavors to develop American citizens who are physically, mentally, and emotionally fit; have a high degree of self-reliance as evidenced in such qualities as initiative, courage, and resourcefulness; have personal values based on religious concepts; have the desire and skills to help others; understand the principles of the American social, economic, and governmental systems; are knowledgeable about and take pride in their American heritage and understand our nation's role in the world; have a keen respect for the basic rights of all people; and are prepared to participate in and give leadership to American society.”

So now where in there or what you put in this post, does it say that adults run the show? Have a high degree of self-reliance. Now how does one become self reliant if someone else is running everything?
Here is something else pulled from that same site you pulled your facts off of.
“First, the Scout learns. Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop and by active participation in troop program. His patrol activities are directed toward the skills he needs. Every troop hike, camping trip, or other activity offers potential learning experiences. A Scout learns to pitch a tent by pitching one, to use a compass by finding directions, and to cook a meal by having to prepare and eat it.”

Much of his learning comes from other boys in his patrol or troop? Wait according to all you people it comes from the adults.
Ok here is the link to Eagle Scout.
http://www.scouting.org/factsheets/02-516.html

[Glenn B]

yet another attept from the NY times- didnt they first say it? although it happened like last april or so?
As far as I can tell, it happened a while ago. Circumstances are up in the air. Too many conflicting reports and accounts at this point yet, IMHO.

[Eagle]

Then there was the story I caught a fleeting reference to that said one of our units had removed the bulk of it. Never got to read the whole story, and I haven't seen any follow-up.

I agree. The whole thing was a political stunt.

Had an interesting discussion today. A friend who now lives in Boston and his wife were down to visit his 94-year old mother, and my wife and I stopped in to see them. My friend's wife is Turkish. She has lived in this country for several years, but she is only now beginning to apply for citizenship, so she can't vote.

But she said if she could vote, she'd vote for Kerry. Why? Because she doesn't like Bush. And that's the summation of this entire election, at least in my experience. I have yet to meet or talk with anyone who is going to vote FOR either of the candidates. Universally, people are voting AGAINST the candidate they consider the bigger danger, the bigger liar, the bigger fraud, or the lower scum-bucket. I asked my Turkish friend why she might consider voting for a proven liar, and her reply was both interesting and frightening.

She said "That's just how the game is played. I know Kerry isn't telling us what's in his heart, but I believe he has core values and he just has to say what's necessary to get elected, so he can put his core values into action."

?????

Yikes! Couldn't come right out and say so, but I'm sure glad this lady can't vote in our election. I don't much care if she wants to become a Republicrat or a Democan, but when you start thinking that it's acceptable for politicians to lie in order to get elected, you are acknowledging that we citizen-type people aren't bright enough to decide anything for ourselves and therefore it must be okay for the politicians to lie to us in order to get elected. God forbid we should actually know where a candidate stands on the issues, and vote for the guy whose position(s) most closely approximate our own.

I left her thinking, but I don't think I convinced her. Problem iss that she lives in Boston, where she's immersed in Kerry/Kennedy type liberals, so this all seems normal and natural to her.

[Z22_Z33]

Maybe I should restate what I’m saying; the troop is run by the boys not the adults.

Maybe I should have said clarify rather then restate.
This is what I have been saying. Granted the adults do a lot. That though is not what I was arguing about. You all think that’s what I was trying to argue over. This is the statement I was saying, and I am for. Or do you people believe I am so wrong you must continue your campaign against me?
Granted I may not be the smartest or the best at what I do, but what right does that give you to put me down? Say how wrong I must be? Not once have I made fun of any of you, or tried to bring you down. Yes I got angry and used language I shouldn’t have against Redneck. I also have argued with you but that is all.
What is it about me that is so horrible that I deserve such treatment from all of you? I made Eagle Scout which I am proud of. Not just anyone can or becomes an Eagle Scout, but yet with just that little fact you instantly believe that I view myself better then everyone else in the world? Where have I once said that me being an Eagle Scout makes myself better then everyone? If you were not in my same position do that same? Stand up for yourself? What if someone poked fun at you for being in the military or even being a vet or believing in something?
Neither I nor anyone else, are pleased when people question what we have done in the past (I am referring to what we are glad to have done and do not view as wrong). Someone actually said, I must not be an Eagle Scout, a kid must have told me. Would you like it if I were to say, you must not have served it was just a movie? Someone else actually compared basic training as being the same as it takes to become an Eagle Scout. Some believe that one day you have a crazy idea to be an Eagle Scout and then poof your one. Others believe that because I simply state something, I must be proven how wrong I really am. Then when I try to defend what I said, I am politely told to shut up. Even when I try to clarify what I said, you do not listen and somehow think I am just repeating myself and I must suffer from ADD. Others believe that simply because they think they know more that I am naïve, without really reading what I have written. Why don’t you try and look for the meanings of what I am typing here, don’t just take it at face value.
All I have really been doing is trying to state my opinion but to no avail it has somehow been used against me. I hope that what I am saying is not all in vain. I am afraid though that it is. Somehow what I have just said, I am sure you people will find a way to use against me.

[Eagle]

No I am not someone else. Now where did I say "all scouting is run by kids." Please reread what I have written. Just in case you are to lazy to look back and think I did say that. Here is what I said, "there are certain things the adults can do that the boys cant.”
I'll not only re-read what you wrote, I'll post it right here for all to see:

For those that don’t know, the Boy Scouts is a boy run organization, it is not run by the adults, but some adults though do not see this and us boys are to young to know the difference.

Perhaps YOU should reread what you have written, since you don't seem to remember it very well. That sounds to me like a rather definitive statement. "It is not run by the adults." You have made A BIG DEAL out of the fact that (in your eyes) the Boy Scouts is run completely by the boys. You have maintained this position despite statements from adults who have been scoutmasters and who know better, and in the face of Glenn's quote from the BSA web site itself.

And now that you've painted yourself well and fully into the corner, NOW you want to say that you didn't say what you said. That stuff might work in the Boy Scouts, but it won't work here. Most of us have been around the block a time or three, and we've seen people before who like to try to scam us. A word of advice: Don't try that stuff here. You will get called on it, as you deserve to.

[XJJPR]

I'll not only re-read what you wrote, I'll post it right here for all to see:



Perhaps YOU should reread what you have written, since you don't seem to remember it very well. That sounds to me like a rather definitive statement. "It is not run by the adults." You have made A BIG DEAL out of the fact that (in your eyes) the Boy Scouts is run completely by the boys. You have maintained this position despite statements from adults who have been scoutmasters and who know better, and in the face of Glenn's quote from the BSA web site itself.

And now that you've painted yourself well and fully into the corner, NOW you want to say that you didn't say what you said. That stuff might work in the Boy Scouts, but it won't work here. Most of us have been around the block a time or three, and we've seen people before who like to try to scam us. A word of advice: Don't try that stuff here. You will get called on it, as you deserve to.

Eagle has it right!

See I didn't have to type much but agree with the above!

hinkley

[Z22_Z33]

Maybe I should have said clarify rather then restate.
.

Please if you are going to reread what I wrote please read all of it.
I am young so sometimes I automatically believe you all know what I am talking about. It was clear then and now that is not the case. I needed to clarify what I meant. My thinking was this. The boys run the troop if it wasn’t for the troop there wouldn’t be a Boy Scout organization. So yes the adults run the organization to a certain extent, but the troop is left in the hands of the boys, which makes up the organization. Now that is how I came to the conclusion, the boys run the show.
Now none of this is set in stone. As many people have shown. There are parts only the adults can run, on the other hand there are areas the boys must run not the adults.

[Gridikal]

This is true- now that you've clarified, I can understand where you'r going. As far as my four friends go, the troop leaders set the objectives and the "troop" makes there own choices on how to aquire the goals set by the troop leader. They chose the trips, meetings, camping trips, etc etc. So, I guess I could agree with that- but thats just based off of info I picked up from friends, as I said I was never in Boy scouts- kinda glad too.

[Z22_Z33]

This is true- now that you've clarified, I can understand where you'r going. As far as my four friends go, the troop leaders set the objectives and the "troop" makes there own choices on how to aquire the goals set by the troop leader. They chose the trips, meetings, camping trips, etc etc. So, I guess I could agree with that- but thats just based off of info I picked up from friends, as I said I was never in Boy scouts- kinda glad too.

Thank you. Just to let people know the troop leaders also consist of the boys themselves, the ones that were elected by their peers. They have a say in the objectives/goals as well. The adults might suggest something; the approval though usually lies in the hands of the boy leaders. Usually more then often what the adults suggests is a good thing, and is implemented. This goes the same with the carryout of the plans. Instead of offering a suggestion it was more in the form of advice. How are you going to raise the funds, is this really a good time, people may be on vacation.
This of course could lead to the conclusion the adults run the troop.

[Eagle]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Z22_Z33]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

What’s wrong there Eagle? Came here looking for a fight only to see you can't?
Both things that I have said are valid are they not? On one hand it looks like the boys run the troop, on the other it looks like the adults run the troop.
Maybe from now on we should have patience with everyone and let them express and form their opinions as opposed to slamming them saying they are wrong. Now I believe we are all at fault for this, I’m not excluding myself here. I made a comment without fully explaining myself, and people jumped on me for that. They did the same thing I did, didn’t say why they felt that way. So it just continued to escalate. Once I began expressing my ideas, I hope everything came clear. It even came clear to me as well. I see that the adults do run the troop, but so do the boys. The boys must be given the opportunity to do this, or else they will learn nothing. The adults are there to make sure the boys don’t screw up, which someone stated earlier.

[DrMoab]

What’s wrong there Eagle? Came here looking for a fight only to see you can't?
Both things that I have said are valid are they not? On one hand it looks like the boys run the troop, on the other it looks like the adults run the troop.
Maybe from now on we should have patience with everyone and let them express and form their opinions as opposed to slamming them saying they are wrong. Now I believe we are all at fault for this, I’m not excluding myself here. I made a comment without fully expressing myself, and people jumped on me for that. They did the same thing I did, didn’t say why they felt that way. So it just continued to escalate. Once I began expressing my ideas, I hope everything came clear. It even came clear to me as well. I see that the adults do run the troop, but so do the boys. The boys must be given the opportunity to do this, or else they will learn nothing. The adults are there to make sure the boys don’t screw up, which someone stated earlier.
Are you still a scout? I just read your Bio. It says you were born in 84. That makes you 19 or 20 depending on what month you were born in. So what are you doing making such a huge deal out of little boys running the scouts. You are an adult START ACTING LIKE ONE.

[CW]

What’s wrong there Eagle? Came here looking for a fight only to see you can't?
Both things that I have said are valid are they not? On one hand it looks like the boys run the troop, on the other it looks like the adults run the troop.
Maybe from now on we should have patience with everyone and let them express and form their opinions as opposed to slamming them saying they are wrong. Now I believe we are all at fault for this, I’m not excluding myself here. I made a comment without fully explaining myself, and people jumped on me for that. They did the same thing I did, didn’t say why they felt that way. So it just continued to escalate. Once I began expressing my ideas, I hope everything came clear. It even came clear to me as well. I see that the adults do run the troop, but so do the boys. The boys must be given the opportunity to do this, or else they will learn nothing. The adults are there to make sure the boys don’t screw up, which someone stated earlier.http://www.digitalend.com/pics/kickoffinternetgore.jpg


This thread needs to go away.

Edit: If you want to comment on my posts pm me instead of leaving an anonymous
reputaion point, that way I can respond or maybe even apologize.:gag:

[Z22_Z33]

Are you still a scout? I just read your Bio. It says you were born in 84. That makes you 19 or 20 depending on what month you were born in. So what are you doing making such a huge deal out of little boys running the scouts. You are an adult START ACTING LIKE ONE.

That is what I am doing. I am standing up for what I believe is right. It is an organization I have been a part of for well over 12-14 years, and will be glad to put my son into(and no I do not have a son yet, and please leave this comment alone). Now how can I simply drop it when people say I should be ashamed of what I am a part of, and do not understand it. It is a very large deal to me Dr. Moab. It is a lot like how people make a big deal about their education, or military service. We were a part of it. We believe that is was run correctly and shouldn’t be tampered with. If it is it might somehow diminish not only what we did but the people who are currently in and who could go into what we did.

(What you don’t believe I was born on tax day? Well I don’t think my calendar goes back 20 years, but I believe it was a weekend, so technically I wasn't :D)

[Gridikal]

[QUOTE=Z22_Z33]What’s wrong there Eagle? Came here looking for a fight only to see you can't?
QUOTE]
Dude, not cool to bust on Eagle. Even though I backed you up on one little point you took long enough to say what I said in one post. You've done got yourself enough neg. reputation points to last you a while. See Eagle's, Dr. Moabs, CW's, Glen's, and Urban Redneck's reputation bars? I belive they deserve a little respect.

[DrMoab]

It is a very large deal to me Dr. Moab. It is much like how people make a large deal about their education, or military service. We were a part of it. We believe that is was run correctly and shouldn’t be tampered with. If it is it might somehow diminish not only what we did but the people who are currently in and who could go into what we did.

)
You ever hear that saying"I wish all my problems would have happend to me when I was a kid and knew everything"? This is what you sound like to me.
I am not saying anything against the Boy Scouts. I happen to belive the are an ok organization(except when they burn whole forests down) I just think its funny that there is about 49 older,way smarter, and much wiser then you trying to tell you something and you aren't even listening.
I could be wrong here but I don't think that I am in saying that you have NO respect for your elders. Isn't this one thing the scouts are really big on? Helping the elderly across the street and that sort of thing? I have never served in the Military...I was a snot nosed kid when I was that age and didn't think I should have to.30 years old now and looking back at my past and looking at what is going on in the world today I wish I had served.
I look at the many Vets that are on this board and they make me proud!! I wish I could personaly thank them each in person and shake their hands.
They deserve respect! You don't seem to know how to give that. If you would just sit back and THINK about the things they are telling you, you would go on to be a much better adult. Nobody here is picking on you because of how you feel about the scouts,Iraq, explosives or anything else. If they are picking on you its because they are trying to show you the way the real world works and you are just turning up your nose.
How sad.

[Eagle]

Now how can I simply drop it when people say I should be ashamed of what I am a part of, and do not understand it.
The answer to the first part of your question ("How can I simply drop it ...?") is easy ... by doing so. It's how we deal with Internet trolls ... we ignore them, and pretty soon they go away.

As the the second part, please direct me to anyone's post in ANY of the threads involving you, the Boy Scouts, and your Eagle Scout status where they have suggested that you should be ashamed of being a part of the Boy Scouts.

[Urban Redneck]

Hasta Hasta Hasta Hasta

Z, drop the attitude, the chip on the shoulder, whatever. Shut up and read the posts. You don't know it all, but you come off like you think you do. You don't have to argue every post into the ground. It's getting rather :speepin: . Do yourself and everyone else a favor and just let it go. You ask for info, get the info, then argue that the info is wrong, even though you started by saying...I don't know the info. It is pretty amusing, but at the same time....Hasta

[Z22_Z33]

The answer to the first part of your question ("How can I simply drop it ...?") is easy ... by doing so. It's how we deal with Internet trolls ... we ignore them, and pretty soon they go away.

As the the second part, please direct me to anyone's post in ANY of the threads involving you, the Boy Scouts, and your Eagle Scout status where they have suggested that you should be ashamed of being a part of the Boy Scouts.

If I knew how to use the quote button to put multiple quotes at once from people in here I would. Please sir could you read the rest of what I wrote I gave valid reasons right there to why I couldn’t drop it. (and no I am not meaning to be disrespectful by calling you sir)

[Z22_Z33]

Don't get me wrong. The Scouts are a great Org for homophobes,

[Z22_Z33]

I very much doubt that the scouts actually run the organization. The adults may allow you a degree of autonomy under their supervision, but I'm sure they retain veto power and ultimate control.

Falls under the catagory of dont understand.

[Z22_Z33]

http://www.digitalend.com/pics/funny036.jpg....

And how am I suppose to take this?

[Z22_Z33]

They teach you to lie now? ISarge

[Z22_Z33]

Go buy a ** clue, put the bong down, let go of the tree...don't you have to save one of your rock heros from blowing his brains out? Hope your Eagle Scout training taught you how to....never mind, you're not worth it...

[DrMoab]

And how am I suppose to take this?
Laugh about it like the rest of us do and quit taking yourself so seriously,kid!
Like I said I have nothing against the scouts and I thought it was funny as hell. Just lighten up a bit...roll with the punches and learn that just because someone picks on you a little bit doesn't mean you have to defend yourself to the bitter end.
You need to turn 21 so you can have a beer or two...Loosen you up a bit!

[Z22_Z33]

Hind sight is 20/20, didn't they teach that in Eagle Scouts? .

And what started it all.

[Z22_Z33]

Oh, he is in the Boy Scouts? Than explains the naive outlook.

.

[Urban Redneck]

Forum Fixer, can you put all of the above posts into one easy to read package?

[Glenn B]

And how am I suppose to take this?
How? Dunno. Apparently a qualified Boy Scout was awared a prize or badge.

Are you wondering if that child is not qualified? Or upset that it is an adult and not a boy awarding it to him? You lost me on your point here.

[Z22_Z33]

I'm with urban redneck on this one. Wow who knew?

If I knew how to do it I would have from the start. Can someone tell me how to. While you’re at is forum fixer you can get rid of this post

[F. F.]

I'm with urban redneck on this one. Wow who knew?

If I knew how to do it I would have from the start. Can someone tell me how to. While you’re at is forum fixer you can get rid of this post

Please stop bombarding the forums with quotes in seperate posts. You are free to use the forum code and include it all in one post.

Look to the lower left for vB Codes, and use those please.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[CW]

Ok, you select the text you want to put into quotes, right click on the mouse and select copy. Then you can either type [qu ote] (without space) then paste the text then close the tag with a [/ quote] (without space). This is pretty standard in the computer world. You could also click the " Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text" button on selected text you have already pasted. If you want to include the original poster you type "=Username" in the leading tag. ex. [QUOTE=CW]

Now grow a sense of humor and some thicker skin please.

[Z22_Z33]

How? Dunno. Apparently a qualified Boy Scout was awared a prize or badge.

Are you wondering if that child is not qualified? Or upset that it is an adult and not a boy awarding it to him? You lost me on your point here.



It’s making fun of the kid. See now this is what I was talking about. Somehow he isn’t in the wrong here? Yet if I said any of this I would be.
If it wasn't making fun of the kid then it doesn't matter. Whoever posted it could be trying to use it in such a way to think that I am in fact that kid. Mainly though it is making fun of the poor kid. I don't find it funny.

[DrMoab]

If I knew how to do it I would have from the start. Can someone tell me how to. While you’re at is forum fixer you can get rid of this post
I'll give you a little tip...and I am not being a jerk here. If you really want to get rid of this post...stop posting. People will leave you alone and it will go away. :kissyou:

[Gridikal]

I dunno bout you guys but I wish there was a "mute" button :D

[Glenn B]

I dunno bout you guys but I wish there was a "mute" button :D
There is a "mute" button. You can put annoying people on "ignore". Works great, unless people "quote" the ignored person. ;)

[CW]

Whats the fun in that?

[Glenn B]

Whats the fun in that?
Never said it was fun. I don't have anybody on the "ignore" feature currently..... those that would make the list simply serve as entertainement. :D

[XJJPR]

OMG, xjguy jr.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Guess there has to be one on each coast!


hinkley

[Urban Redneck]

OMG, xjguy jr.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Guess there has to be one on each coast!


hinkley


That way there is a balance in the universe.

[Eagle]

I dunno bout you guys but I wish there was a "mute" button :D
There is an "Ignore" button :)

[Eagle]

Okay, Z22_Z33, you wrote this:

Now how can I simply drop it when people say I should be ashamed of what I am a part of, and do not understand it.

To which I responded by asking you to show us even ONE post where anyone suggested that you should be ashamed to be a Boy Scout. Am I correct in thinking that the mass of quotes you posted late last night or early this morning is your response to my request? If so, it's an interesting lesson in your biases and comprehension skills, because not of those posts you quoted says anything negative about the Boy Scouts, or suggests that you should be ashamed to be a part of the organization. NOT ONE. The fact that you apparently interrpreted them that way explains why this thread has dragged on as long as it has -- you are so close-focused on YOU that you can't or won't take the time to understand what people are responding to you with. And at the same time, since in another thread you wrote that you "assumed" people understood what you wrote, you show that you don't understand how communication works. The writer/speaker bears the major responsibility for being sure the message is clearly expressed. You started off with a black-and-white, 100%, take-no-prisoners blanket statement that the boys run the Boy Scouts. Faced with evidence to the contrary, you have been back-tracking ever since, in an attempt to both say that that's not what you meant while at the same time trying to position so it is true even when it isn't.

Remember when I advised you to put the brain in gear before engaging the keyboard? I respectfully repeat that advice. Then, after you have typed your response(s), take a moment or three to read what you wrote before you hit the "submit" button.

[Darky]

I don't see why he keeps bringing it up when there've been a couple attempts to move back to the point, or why people keep responding. He wants the attention. Don't give it and let's get back to the topic at hand.

As far as this stuff about the RDX missing, I'd say we had 8 yrs to get it and other possible weapons out of there while Clinton was in office and the UN was sending inspectors there to be kicked out. Now all of a sudden, its the worst thing in the world that some troops didn't go there first. Its a war, war's have specific objectives decided by the president. He tells the generals what he wants (ie get rid of Saddam) and they decide, along with their advisors and lower staff, how to do that, what targets to go after. How it becomes the fault of the persident I don't know since he doesn't make the strategy up. Apparently people looked at that stash of deodorant manufacturing chemicals and said ya know, this just isn't as important as the guy's shooting at us over there. Lets go get them and then maybe we'll come back for it.

[Eagle]

You are correct to a point, BlackSport, but don't forget that when the generals were putting together their invasion plan they told the administration how many divisions they wanted, and the administration (Rumsfeld) said "No way -- we'll give you two thirds of that."

So the critics who say we didn't have enough boots on the ground are and were correct. In fairness to Shrub, although I don't like to concede this, I don't think it's really his fault (except in the "The buck stops here" sense). He relied on his Secretary of Defense, and Donny was fanatically committed to using technology and machinery rather than manpower. What this translates to is that Shrub was given bad advice by his SecDef, and being a flyboy rather than a ground pounder, he can't be entirely faulted for not overruling Rummy.

Of course, in retrospect it appears that even the number of troops originally requested would not have been enough to secure the country after the invasion had been completed. If they had another division available at the time, could/would they have detached a company or a platoon to secure that particular site? Who knows.

[red91]

forum fixer you can get rid of this post?

Maybe you just shouldn't start them...?