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Ralph
October 28th, 2004, 07:47
Some more stuff to think about.

I'm trying to get all this political stuff straightened out in my head
so I'll know how to vote come November. Right now, we have one guy saying
one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe? Lemme
see; Have I got this straight?


Clinton awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...

Clinton spends 77 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...

Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian
terrorists - good...
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...

Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs terrorist camps - bad...

Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...

No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...

Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy on upswing under Bush - bad...

Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...

Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...

Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...

Terrorist training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys training camps in Afghanistan - bad...

Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...

Ahh, it's so confusing!

Every year an independent tax watchdog group analyzes the average tax
burden on Americans, and then calculates the "Tax Freedom Day". This is
the day after which the money you earn goes to you, not the government.
This year, tax freedom day was April 11th. That's the earliest it has been
since 1991. It's latest day ever was May 2nd, which occurred in 2000.
Notice
anything special about those dates?

Recently, John Kerry gave a speech in which he claimed Americans are
actually paying more taxes under Bush, despite the tax cuts. He gave no
explanation and provided no data for this claim.

Another interesting fact: Both George Bush and John Kerry are wealthy
men. Bush owns only one home, his ranch in Texas. Kerry owns 4
mansions, all worth several million dollars. (His ski resort home in Idaho
is an
old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).
Bush paid $250,000 in taxes this year; Kerry paid $90,000. Does that
sound right? The man who wants to raise your taxes obviously has figured
out a way to avoid paying his own.

Matthew Currie
October 28th, 2004, 08:25
You certainly are confused. Try thinking for yourself and getting the facts right instead of parroting the usual internet crap, distorted facts, apples-and-oranges comparisons and non-issues dressed up to look like arguments.

If you like Bush, fine, vote for him because you agree with his ideas, not because you really think it has to do with comparing Clinton's hummer in the oval office with Bush's grandstanding, or because you don't know the difference between Serbia and Kosovo, or because you can't tell the difference between wanting a regime change and invading a country to accomplish it, or because some anonymous internet author imagines some controversy in comparing our accidental bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade with our almost universally-approved destruction of terrorist camps in Afghanistan, a policy vociferously endorsed by both parties.

This campaign is about ideas and ideologies, and the result may be very important for this country and its future. Basic ideas about where the U.S. stands in the world, where the government and its police powers stand in your own life, where the boundaries are drawn between faith and reason, church and state, and what terms like "freedom" and "democracy" even mean, are at issue. Think for yourself and know what you're really voting for. It's important.

Lawn Cher'
October 28th, 2004, 08:37
Here Here! :thumbup:

ECKSJAY
October 28th, 2004, 08:44
Here Here! :thumbup:

Where, where?

;)

HEAR! HEAR!

red91
October 28th, 2004, 09:14
just remember...Mickey Mouse has the highest write in amount of votes in all the 50 states...

Wonder Why ???

:shocked:

Lawn Cher'
October 28th, 2004, 09:54
Eek! A spelling/grammatical error from me?! Not a good sign of things to come.

People, you have been warned.

Lawn Cher' out!

ECKSJAY
October 28th, 2004, 10:02
Eek! A spelling/grammatical error from me?! Not a good sign of things to come.

People, you have been warned.

Lawn Cher' out!

<hiding>

Ralph
October 28th, 2004, 13:54
The point of the post is to highlight the liberal democrat bias of the main news media.

red91
October 28th, 2004, 14:15
Eek! A spelling/grammatical error from me?! Not a good sign of things to come.

People, you have been warned.

Lawn Cher' out!


After CAREFUL consideration and fact digging...I have come to this conclusion.

1.) ECKSJAY must be employeed by the Seattle Public Schools.
2.) He MUST BE in Language Arts, or a simliar field of study.

I have come to this conclusion by...

1.) He's always correcting our spelling and/or grammar, and
2.) If I'm not wrong his AVATAR is taken from the hall of one of Seattle's Finest Schools...Roosevelt High.

:cheers:

Lou
October 28th, 2004, 14:55
It's seems to be an issue that is near and dear to your heart.

I bet your wrong. Do they still teach reading in school, or are people just lazy as hell nowadays ???


this will be forwarded to beezil for grammar, and spelling errors.

He does seem to pull it off in a non-condescending manner. We should all aspire to a higher standard.

red91
October 28th, 2004, 14:59
It's seems to be an issue that is near and dear to your heart.

My grandmother / Grandfather were teachers. They'd freak at kids nowadays and how they talk / spell / etc...



He does seem to pull it off in a non-condescending manner. We should all aspire to a higher standard.

ECKSJAY is good at it. He's caught most of us at one time or another.

AND... I just call like I see them...what can i say...I'm in a rut.

Now about this standards crap...

dmillion
October 28th, 2004, 15:13
"This campaign is about ideas and ideologies..."

No it's not. Like most campaigns its about partisan twaddle. The Democrats all hate Bush and the Republicans all hate Kerry (although I have to say that the hatred seems much more intense on the Democrat side).

Those who ACTUALLY spend time using their brains--thinking about issues, ideologies, and the candidates' positions--invariably end up disgusted with BOTH the Democrats and Republicans. That would be the 3%-4% who typically end up voting for alternative-party candidates.

One thing I can say is that, when I look at the quality of representatives we have in Washington, it makes me very proud of the fact that I almost never vote for the winner.

CW
October 28th, 2004, 15:52
(His ski resort home in Idaho
is an
old barn brought over from Europe in pieces. Not your average A-frame).
Wow, he's a brave liberal tryin to live in this neck of the woods (the most republican state in the union).

5-90
October 28th, 2004, 16:56
I guess I'm in a REALLY shallow minority then, since I have pretty solidly acknowledged the fact that no matter how good the guy is, if he's on a third-party ticket it just ain't gonna happen. I don't write in for myself (yet) - I'm only 32 and therefore not eligible for the Presidency. I have written in for myself for House or Senate simply to register my disgust at everyone else (if I've got to vote for someone, it might as well be someone I trust.)

Honestly, I think I'd like to see Presidential debates carried out on PPV, no gloves, knockout or submission to win. Live and in full colour. It's a lot harder to lie in a fight, and I could see what sort of killing instinct the candidates have (which, to me, is more important than politics in the modern world.)

Meanwhile, my TV is usually turned off about now so I don't have to put up with all the "twaddle" (what a wonderful word!) and just about everything relating to the election goes straight into the paper bin, except the official stuff from the Registrar of Voters. Voting guide -

Raise taxes - AGAINST
Reallocation of existing funds - DEPENDS ON TARGET
Bond Issues - AGAINST
Most candidacies - NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Frankly, I'm not impressed enough with most officeholders to hire them to work for me in the first place, why rehire them?

Speaking of "None of the Above" - I believe it was 1998 when someone out here tried to get it added to the ballot. I like the idea, but his implementation wouldn't have changed anything. You see, you can already vote "none of the above" simply by not marking the ballot for that particular issue or office (or just not mark the ballot in the first place!) So, what would adding "None of the Above" have changed? Nothing.

If we are going to add it as an option, let's make it matter. Count the "none of the above" votes against everything else, like another candidate or Aye/Nay votes on various measures. If "None of the Above" wins, use it as impetus to re-examine the problem or office, and see about trimming a little fat. Or, use it to eliminate useless deadwood.

For the third parties, the first problem is to unlock the 80% or so of active voters who are so set on the "straight-party ticket" that you just can't get them to do anything else. "Because Mom/Dad/Uncle Freddie" was something doesn't mean you have to be. My family is stunchly Republican, but I outgrew that and the closest classification that could be applied to me would be "conservative libertarian." I'll let you sort that one out on your own - but it's pretty easy.

I am also beginning to think that there should be a MAXIMUM net worth allowed a politician - the higher the office, the lower the cieling. Campaign finance? That's an easy one to fix - you don't get anything. Print/audio/video media advertising are to be supplied by the outlets gratis, with the proviso that ALL candidates are OFFERED and GRANTED equal exposure. If the Dems get a half-page ad, the GOD gets one as well, and right next to it! Primacy of position to be determined by coin flip, die toss, or other pseudorandom event. Change the position or order for each occurrence of the ad. While we're at it, severely limit or eliminate the 527 political groups, and keep the 501(c)(3)'s out of political advertising.

Get rid of the vitriol and rancor in campaigning, and go for facts. Be able to back up your facts, and explain their sources. If you are going to make an accusation, you had DAMN WELL better be able to prove it! Make slander/libel laws apply to these guys.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

5-90


Remember that I am, and will always be, a soldier. I have not been trained to make policy, simply to execute it. As such, I am an arm of the United States Government - no matter who's in control. You may also want to remember that the people like me, who protect these bozos, aren't allowed to have an opinion while we are serving. I always found it ironic that we voluntarily cede our rights to protect everyone else's...

w_howey
October 28th, 2004, 17:10
.

For the third parties, the first problem is to unlock the 80% or so of active voters who are so set on the "straight-party ticket" that you just can't get them to do anything else. "Because Mom/Dad/Uncle Freddie" was something doesn't mean you have to be. My family is stunchly Republican, but I outgrew that and the closest classification that could be applied to me would be "conservative libertarian." I'll let you sort that one out on your own - but it's pretty easy.

I, with the proviso that ALL candidates are OFFERED and GRANTED equal exposure. If the Dems get a half-page ad, the GOD gets one as well, and right next to it! ...



The WHO gets the same as the Dems??
Talk about straight tickets? :wave1:

5-90
October 28th, 2004, 17:46
Geez - where'd THAT come from? Normally, I'd please "****-poor typist" and go on my merry way - but that's not even close to being a typo! I guess my mine really is somewhere else lately - I'll have to pillage around inside my head and see what I'm thinking...

What I meant to say is "GOP" - but you probably already figured that out on your own. Oops.

5-90 :gee:

ECKSJAY
October 28th, 2004, 19:18
After CAREFUL consideration and fact digging...I have come to this conclusion.

1.) ECKSJAY must be employeed by the Seattle Public Schools.
2.) He MUST BE in Language Arts, or a simliar field of study.

I have come to this conclusion by...

1.) He's always correcting our spelling and/or grammar, and
2.) If I'm not wrong his AVATAR is taken from the hall of one of Seattle's Finest Schools...Roosevelt High.

:cheers:

1.) I sell aftermarket 4WD parts and truck accessories.
2.) I have studied and am currently studying LA (including a brief experimental period with Journalism) and Political Science. :D

The avatar was taken utilizing a safe backstop and a self-timer. I am a trained professional, so please do not try this at home. Your mileage may vary. Coupon not valid with any other offers. Void where prohibited. Millions will enter, thousands will win.

:wave: :laugh3:

sidriptide
October 28th, 2004, 19:54
I guess I'm in a REALLY shallow minority then, since I have pretty solidly acknowledged the fact that no matter how good the guy is, if he's on a third-party ticket it just ain't gonna happen. I don't write in for myself (yet) - I'm only 32 and therefore not eligible for the Presidency. I have written in for myself for House or Senate simply to register my disgust at everyone else (if I've got to vote for someone, it might as well be someone I trust.)

Honestly, I think I'd like to see Presidential debates carried out on PPV, no gloves, knockout or submission to win. Live and in full colour. It's a lot harder to lie in a fight, and I could see what sort of killing instinct the candidates have (which, to me, is more important than politics in the modern world.)

Meanwhile, my TV is usually turned off about now so I don't have to put up with all the "twaddle" (what a wonderful word!) and just about everything relating to the election goes straight into the paper bin, except the official stuff from the Registrar of Voters. Voting guide -

Raise taxes - AGAINST
Reallocation of existing funds - DEPENDS ON TARGET
Bond Issues - AGAINST
Most candidacies - NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Frankly, I'm not impressed enough with most officeholders to hire them to work for me in the first place, why rehire them?

Speaking of "None of the Above" - I believe it was 1998 when someone out here tried to get it added to the ballot. I like the idea, but his implementation wouldn't have changed anything. You see, you can already vote "none of the above" simply by not marking the ballot for that particular issue or office (or just not mark the ballot in the first place!) So, what would adding "None of the Above" have changed? Nothing.

If we are going to add it as an option, let's make it matter. Count the "none of the above" votes against everything else, like another candidate or Aye/Nay votes on various measures. If "None of the Above" wins, use it as impetus to re-examine the problem or office, and see about trimming a little fat. Or, use it to eliminate useless deadwood.

For the third parties, the first problem is to unlock the 80% or so of active voters who are so set on the "straight-party ticket" that you just can't get them to do anything else. "Because Mom/Dad/Uncle Freddie" was something doesn't mean you have to be. My family is stunchly Republican, but I outgrew that and the closest classification that could be applied to me would be "conservative libertarian." I'll let you sort that one out on your own - but it's pretty easy.

I am also beginning to think that there should be a MAXIMUM net worth allowed a politician - the higher the office, the lower the cieling. Campaign finance? That's an easy one to fix - you don't get anything. Print/audio/video media advertising are to be supplied by the outlets gratis, with the proviso that ALL candidates are OFFERED and GRANTED equal exposure. If the Dems get a half-page ad, the GOD gets one as well, and right next to it! Primacy of position to be determined by coin flip, die toss, or other pseudorandom event. Change the position or order for each occurrence of the ad. While we're at it, severely limit or eliminate the 527 political groups, and keep the 501(c)(3)'s out of political advertising.

Get rid of the vitriol and rancor in campaigning, and go for facts. Be able to back up your facts, and explain their sources. If you are going to make an accusation, you had DAMN WELL better be able to prove it! Make slander/libel laws apply to these guys.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

5-90


Remember that I am, and will always be, a soldier. I have not been trained to make policy, simply to execute it. As such, I am an arm of the United States Government - no matter who's in control. You may also want to remember that the people like me, who protect these bozos, aren't allowed to have an opinion while we are serving. I always found it ironic that we voluntarily cede our rights to protect everyone else's...

i gotta admit it.. this guy quite often impresses me not only with knowledge, but with his ability to express it... we need more people with their own brains around here running stuff....
:us:

5-90
October 28th, 2004, 20:04
Thank you - it's good to be appreciated.

I learned at a tender age that simply HAVING an opinion isn't enough, you must be able to EXPRESS that opinion in a manner that other people can UNDERSTAND, and you must something upon which to BASE that opinion - I also leaned that you aren't qualified or entitled to hold an opinion on a subject about which you know nothing.

That, and I was in public education when one of the most common questions on tests was "Explain your answer."

5-90 - Warrior, philosopher, rum drinker

Z22_Z33
October 29th, 2004, 01:37
The point of the post is to highlight the liberal democrat bias of the main news media.

Where have you been? You ever watch fox news by chance?

red91
October 29th, 2004, 08:17
1.) I sell aftermarket 4WD parts and truck accessories.
2.) I have studied and am currently studying LA (including a brief experimental period with Journalism) and Political Science. :D

The avatar was taken utilizing a safe backstop and a self-timer. I am a trained professional, so please do not try this at home. Your mileage may vary. Coupon not valid with any other offers. Void where prohibited. Millions will enter, thousands will win.

:wave: :laugh3:


DAMN....Here I thought I had something. I will now stop thinking and put my Ass on auto-pilot..

DrMoab
October 29th, 2004, 08:41
Wow, he's a brave liberal tryin to live in this neck of the woods (the most republican state in the union).
wanna have a contest on the most conservitive state? I bet Utah has Idaho beat. Maybe not by much but I bet it does.

JeffV
October 30th, 2004, 07:02
Those who ACTUALLY spend time using their brains--thinking about issues, ideologies, and the candidates' positions--invariably end up disgusted with BOTH the Democrats and Republicans. That would be the 3%-4% who typically end up voting for alternative-party candidates.

One thing I can say is that, when I look at the quality of representatives we have in Washington, it makes me very proud of the fact that I almost never vote for the winner.
:thumbup:

ECKSJAY
October 30th, 2004, 08:11
"This campaign is about ideas and ideologies..."

No it's not. Like most campaigns its about partisan twaddle. The Democrats all hate Bush and the Republicans all hate Kerry (although I have to say that the hatred seems much more intense on the Democrat side).

Those who ACTUALLY spend time using their brains--thinking about issues, ideologies, and the candidates' positions--invariably end up disgusted with BOTH the Democrats and Republicans. That would be the 3%-4% who typically end up voting for alternative-party candidates.

One thing I can say is that, when I look at the quality of representatives we have in Washington, it makes me very proud of the fact that I almost never vote for the winner.

I don't think I could agree more. :star: