Presidential election and land use issues

[Goatman]

Just for information to those who might be interested. This is a note just sent out by United Four Wheel Drive Assoc.

FROM: United Four Wheel Drive Associations

Carla Boucher, Attorney

Statistically, more people than not decide who to vote for based on one or two specific issues and the stand the candidates take on those issues.

If you base your vote on the issue of the environment, or more specifically, on the issue of access opportunities for motorized recreation, United urges those of you in the U.S. (eligible to vote) to vote for George W. Bush/Dick Cheney for President on Nov. 2, 2004.

Here’s why+:

John Kerry’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Wants immediate crackdown on car emissions, which can jeopardize the availability of future models of light trucks, SUVs and Jeep-type vehicles.
* He has one of the most pro-environmentalist records in the Senate.
* He supports the “Clean Power Act” with substantially more stringent limits on emissions for greenhouse gases, despite the fact that the global warming theory has been disproved by credible peer reviewed science.
* Plans a “Restore America’s Waters’” campaign that would, among other things, instruct all federal agencies that net losses of wetlands will not be tolerated, despite other considerations that agencies must legally make.
* Did not vote on Pres. Bush’s Healthy Forests Initiative (Healthy Forest Restoration Act) and later said he would have voted against the initiative had he voted.
* Supported Clinton’s Roadless Rule and has stated he would “revisit” the rule.
* Promises to end the logging of old-growth trees on public lands, despite any considerations to the contrary that the health of the forest may depend on thinning of old-growth trees.

George Bush’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Opposes mandatory cuts in carbon dioxide and does not support the Kyoto treaty.
* Initiated a “clear skies initiative” to replace the “Clean Air Act” with a market-based system to encourage companies to cut emissions voluntarily.
* Passed the Healthy Forests Initiative to thin forests to reduce the risk of wildfire.
*Suspended, then proposed replacing, the Clinton Roadless Rule. The proposed replacement would leave road building and other roadless area management decisions to the states.
* 2005 budget will address his promises to eliminate forest and park maintenance backlog.


Thank you,

Carla

Carla Boucher, Attorney
United Four Wheel Drive Associations
P.O. Box 15696
Chesapeake, VA 23328
(757) 546-7969


+Information taken from Voter Guide, The Virginian-Pilot, Section V, October 24, 2004, researched by Bill Bartel and Erica Smith, copyright 2004

[BajaXJ92]

My vote doesn't need any more reinforcement. ;)

Carla is a very nice lady, as she is the President of my local club, Tidewater Fourwheelers. She also heads up the entire trail ride part of Camp Jeep.

Thanks for posting.

:thumbup:

[CW]

Exactly. :cheers:I can't believe so many people dismiss this as an issue.

[Eagle]

I think that Shrub should have signed onto the Kyoto Accord, but Klinton's "Roadless Initiative" was (is) one of the most arrogant, back-stabbing, illegitimate land grabs I've ever encountered.

I'm in that group of people who think this election boils down to a choice between two rather poor candidates. Now that that's on the table, I also think it's clear which of the two is by far the "worser" of the two. If this off-roading and Jeeping hobby is at all important to you, you really have no choice in this election. Go Shrub.

[woody]

I think that Shrub should have signed onto the Kyoto Accord, but Klinton's "Roadless Initiative" was (is) one of the most arrogant, back-stabbing, illegitimate land grabs I've ever encountered.

I'm in that group of people who think this election boils down to a choice between two rather poor candidates. Now that that's on the table, I also think it's clear which of the two is by far the "worser" of the two. If this off-roading and Jeeping hobby is at all important to you, you really have no choice in this election. Go Shrub.


LOL at Eagle, but I agree in general.

I voted early, and I was never in need of any convincing... but for those that are, it's my opinion that the current administration is the better choice to continue to address a few issues that are important to me: National Defense, management of public lands, and tax relief for individuals, families and small businesses.

[Silverstreak01]

It was cool i went to pargon last weekend and they had all these nice political looking sgns under the glass... "offroaders for bush" i thought it was very simple yet fitting..

[juicexj24]

Simple as this in my mind
Kerry=more govt'
Bush= more people control


There is topics that are of major interest to me, taxes for small business (i own one), health care (my business). Land use issues (our hobby). Stem cell research, nat. defense & home land security. All major issues to me. Not the mention the economy. I just don't like the voting records of the Kerry side, the "PLAN". I still haven't seen what the hell these plans' are. Nor do I really want too.
I knew the way I was going months ago, the debates just really tied it all together for me. Go Shrub as Eagle stated. Juice

[Tom R.]

I think that Shrub should have signed onto the Kyoto Accord...
WAY too many problems with it. Perhaps the intent was good, but...

It reminds me of those decent bills submitted to Congress that get so much pork attached to them that congressman end up voting against the bill they once supported.

[Darky]

Could someone inform this ignorant voter of what the Kyoto Accord is? I've already made up my mind a long time ago. Kerry just doesn't support the troops, no matter how much he swears he does.

[Yucca-Man]

http://mindprod.com/kyoto.html but don't let one site decide for you - Google it and you'll find thousands of hits.

[SteelblueSteve]

Bush=moron who couldn't get accepted to U. of Houston law school.
Kerry=less of a moron who probably actually drove a Jeep, maybe in combat duty,which Bush can never say. My 2 cents worth.

[Glenn B]

Bush=moron who couldn't get accepted to U. of Houston law school.
Kerry=less of a moron who probably actually drove a Jeep, maybe in combat duty,which Bush can never say. My 2 cents worth.
Uh oh. Crap, I am not even gonna start on you here. Sorry to see you disrespect the President, and that you are a Kerry fan. I will stop now, before I unload.

[thebubba1018]

Bush=moron who couldn't get accepted to U. of Houston law school.
Kerry=less of a moron who probably actually drove a Jeep, maybe in combat duty,which Bush can never say. My 2 cents worth.

Well...M. Jordan didnt make his high school basketball team either, did he. And, Im not planning on basing my plans on who should be the next pres on whether or not they drove a Jeep for goodness's sake!

Im voting for the one who has stood by his ideals and values and promises from day one, and anyone who knows anything about either one of the candidates knows who that is.

[crystalship1]

Well .... at least you know what it's worth!!! :roflmao: (http://www.naxja.org/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=49#)Bush=moron who couldn't get accepted to U. of Houston law school.
Kerry=less of a moron who probably actually drove a Jeep, maybe in combat duty,which Bush can never say. My 2 cents worth.

[Goatman]

My 2 cents worth.

Ditto!!

That's what that opinion is worth. Not much to go on to choose a president.........

Moron........an interesting word......and unfortunately it applies to way too many uninformed voters.

[Willis]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.

Maybe a candidate will let you drive anywhere and everywhere you want, but because the price of gas is through the roof, you can't. Or the they screwed heath care up so much, your work could not afford to cover you, and you get injured while 4 wheeling causing you to have a medical bill over $10k and you have to sell the Jeep to pay for it.

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

To me, it is completely asinine to say "I am voting for so-and-so because of this one reason, I don't care where he stands on anything else". That is basically what many of you are saying (maybe not in this thread, but on the numerous other threads).

What about the right to choose? Your daughter gets slipped roofies and gets date raped and gets pregnant, but "someone" has outlawed abortions.

Why not let the gays get married? They already let them adopt, so it's ok to let them adopt a child and raise it in a family where the parents are not married?

I don't have kids, and I'm not gay, so they don't affect me, but they are still issues (along with many others, those are just the easy ones) that need to be resolved.

I don't think either candidate has a good plan for social security.

Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it.

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Think about it,
Steve

[Darky]

I see no problem with outlawing abortion. Yeah, it kinda sucks if you're daughter is drugged and impregnated, but you're still ending the life of another. Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it. You said that what if "someone" screwed up health care. Then you say this. First you imply that Bush is gonna screw health care up to the point where we no longer have coverage and have to pay our own way. Then you say neither has a clue about what to do. At first I just figured you were a Kerry supporter and therefore Kerry will fix all things and Bush will ruin all things. But that confuses me :confused:
The first half sounds like you're just saying Kerry is the answer. And that's your right to say. But while looking at the parties and their stance, just make sure that when trashing one candidate you aren't making another seem great when he can't even maintain one viewpoint.

[karstic]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.


For some people land access and land issues are HUGE issues, they're livelyhood depends upon it. The off-road vehicle industry employs lots of people. How much sales tax revenue is generated by off-roaders buying equipment going on trips? How many people's salaries are paid or supported by off-road enthusiast's $$$. How many rural communites are helped by the influx of the off-roaders pocketbook. The majority are small business owners, fab shops, gear shops, your local 4wd store. Think of how much money you spend on a wheelin' trip. Food, gas, Lodging, souveniers, etc.

There's a lot of money spent in recreation and goes to promote business, keeping people employed and tax revenue. Don't discount it as a non-issue.

Think about it

I suggest you do the same.

[CW]

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Steve
Land use issues is the main issue for me right in front of tuition prices. As a college student going after a degree in mechanical engineering I know I won't be able to get a job involving ME right away after I graduate reguardless of whos the president, and I will probably work a crappy low paying job for a year or two. Healthcare isn't an issue for me, but I don't have a family to provide for. I don't think I live a pathetic life and I don't want your pitty just because I live a different life than you do right now. Too many people get stuck on themselves and assume everyone is like them. That's why we vote, so many different groups are represented. The republican party is the one out of major two that shares more of my philisophical views, but I vote Libertarian a lot also. I can't wait till tuesday so all this political ranting will be over. Don't get me wrong political debate is a sign of a strong democracy, but I am tired of it.

[karstic]

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

The hard-core enviroDems have proved otherwise. Kerry voted for the California Desert Protection Act which locked up 100's of 1000's of acres of land to off-road travel. The NPS (who administers the East Mojave NP) is now trying to limit hunting on those same lands, stabbing the hunting community in the back who compromises allowed the CDPA to get through Congress.

Barbara Boxer, one of California's Senators, currently has a bill on the floor of the Senate that would create thousands of acres more wilderness in California.

Areas like Moab and the Rubicon are under constant threat of closure and restriction.

Think about it
I suggest you do the same.

[karstic]

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

No, it's not my number one priority but it's one of the freedom's that I enjoy. It's one of those things that makes life enjoyable, put's meaning into my 40-60 hr work week, something I enjoy with my friends and family from nieces and nephews to my in-laws. I don't want the government to spoon feed me. I don't want the government to treat me like a :rattle: I don't want to live in a society where I'm spoon fed everything by the government at the sacrifice of my personal liberties.

Think about it
I suggest you do the same.

[SteelblueSteve]

Morals and values? Sorry, I can't stop laughing. Dodge draft, go AWOL last month of duty, have no problem with my V.P. working for a company that did and still does business with the government of Iran, let oil corps. get rich by charging whatever they want regardless of the price of crude, O.K. the execution of a retarded man (mental capacity of a twelve year old) while governor of Texas, run every company he's ever been associated with into the ground...... the morals and values just don't stop. I've got to get off my soap box. I've ****ed all over it from laughing. I love living in a country where we all can have a debate like this, though. It's made possible by both political sides. I may not agree with what you're saying but I'll die for your right to say it, and I'm voting for Kerry. I gotta go work on my Jeep now so I can get all my wheeling before Kerry shuts down all the public land after he's elected. If John McCain were running I'd vote for him. Is there a Democrat you Republicans would vote for? I'm asking because here in Illinois we have been subjected to the fine Mr. Alan Keyes for senate. He's totally off base on so many subjects and not from our state. I know, neither was Hillary from New York. I just think it's sad that either party could parade out a candidate and someone would vote for him/her just because they consider themselves part of that party . Keyes is behind by 50 points but I can't see how anyone could vote for him. Sorry, I'm rambling, taking a break from the garage . Good luck on tuesday and don't kill me if you meet me on a trail.

[Willis]

If you will notice, I left names out of my post for the reason that either situation might apply to anyone, be it Bush, Kerry, Nader, Peter, Paul or Mary.

I've thought about it. You'll notice my post is not one sided, like all of yours are.

So many of you are such big raging Bush supporters, that you refuse to see anything is wrong with him. Most of you that are yelling and screaming about this take the stand that if you are a 4 wheeler, then you have to be a republican. Guess what? You can be a republican and vote for a democrat.

Most of us will never see eye to eye on every subject with any presidential candidate. The best thing to do is to pick the lesser of the evils.

My post was not meant to sway votes one way or another like many presidential post you will read on these forums. Instead, it was to help people realize they need to educate themselves on more than this one aspect of the presidential candidate's agenda.

Here's some light reading just for fun: http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard.html

Oh ya, Bush sold 155 acres in Colorado for $5 per acre a while back. Is it better if our land is taken away by the Democrats or sold off by the Republicans?

Playing devil's advocate now,
Steve

[Yucca-Man]

Colorado land at $5 an acre? That must have been quite awhile back. Yes, you can be a Republican and still vote for a Democrat; I've done it before and may even do it again, but there's no friggin' way I'll vote for a bastard like John Kerry...start with his traitorous actions in Vietnam and afterward and come forward from there.

BTW - John Kerry's camp likes to make it out as though George Bush ditched one or several months of obligated Reserve time. John Kerry had several YEARS of obligated time that he never once attended drills for...

[Sarge]

Is the BLM in Colorado? I know there are sections of the BLM managed land you can "buy and sell" for $5 an acre. Way out in nowhere land, like middle of the Devils Playground.

Sarge

[XJZ]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.

Maybe a candidate will let you drive anywhere and everywhere you want, but because the price of gas is through the roof, you can't. Or the they screwed heath care up so much, your work could not afford to cover you, and you get injured while 4 wheeling causing you to have a medical bill over $10k and you have to sell the Jeep to pay for it.

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

To me, it is completely asinine to say "I am voting for so-and-so because of this one reason, I don't care where he stands on anything else". That is basically what many of you are saying (maybe not in this thread, but on the numerous other threads).

What about the right to choose? Your daughter gets slipped roofies and gets date raped and gets pregnant, but "someone" has outlawed abortions.

Why not let the gays get married? They already let them adopt, so it's ok to let them adopt a child and raise it in a family where the parents are not married?

I don't have kids, and I'm not gay, so they don't affect me, but they are still issues (along with many others, those are just the easy ones) that need to be resolved.

I don't think either candidate has a good plan for social security.

Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it.

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Think about it,
Steve

How does someone even respond to that?

Your arguments are based on your fluffy little fairy tales.

Almost Kerry-like. ;)

[junkxj]

Land use is only one piece of a huge pie. Anyone who votes for someone based on only one aspect of their agenda is a moron. You should know where all parties stand on every issue before voting.

Maybe a candidate will let you drive anywhere and everywhere you want, but because the price of gas is through the roof, you can't. Or the they screwed heath care up so much, your work could not afford to cover you, and you get injured while 4 wheeling causing you to have a medical bill over $10k and you have to sell the Jeep to pay for it.

Maybe the other candidate will restrict where you wheel, but create more jobs and boost the economy to where you now are getting paid more so you can take more vacations to wheeling destinations like Moab or the Rubicon. Gas prices go down, so driving to your wheeling destination is not so expensive.

To me, it is completely asinine to say "I am voting for so-and-so because of this one reason, I don't care where he stands on anything else". That is basically what many of you are saying (maybe not in this thread, but on the numerous other threads).

What about the right to choose? Your daughter gets slipped roofies and gets date raped and gets pregnant, but "someone" has outlawed abortions.

Why not let the gays get married? They already let them adopt, so it's ok to let them adopt a child and raise it in a family where the parents are not married?

I don't have kids, and I'm not gay, so they don't affect me, but they are still issues (along with many others, those are just the easy ones) that need to be resolved.

I don't think either candidate has a good plan for social security.

Health care sucks, and so do both parties thoughts on it.

You people need to take a look at your priorities. If wheeling is your number one priority, then I pity the pathetic life you must lead. Sure, it is a hobby and passion for most of us, but my family, health, job, and personal life come way before wheeling. You need to look at those priorities and weigh where each candidate stand on them and how their decisions will effect you before deciding to elect one or the other.

Think about it,
Steve

Yes, you are complete right! I am not saying there is one thing in the election that should determine the results. I am just posting the most important thing to me at this time. Every thing you have said is right, it just is not something that affects my desicion at this time. Again, you are completely right, just not what worrys me at this time, is this not the idea what this country what founded on?

[Z22_Z33]

Simple as this in my mind
Kerry=more govt'
Bush= more people control




Huh? Wait I thought the republicans were more for corpartions, and the democrats were more for people control.

[Z22_Z33]

So its better that our grand childern or their grand childern cant enjoy the enviroment? Becuase instead of taking steps now to stop its slow destruction, and for what? To play?! This artilce it very one sided.


Isnt it odd that we are all driving a Jeep that in the late 70's would have fallen under this catagory "Wants immediate crackdown on car emissions, which can jeopardize the availability of future models of light trucks, SUVs and Jeep-type vehicles."

This point right now is no longer valid. As we are all in the NAXJA group and the XJ is a jeep that should have never existed according to this claim!

[Z22_Z33]

John Kerry’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Wants immediate crackdown on car emissions, which can jeopardize the availability of future models of light trucks, SUVs and Jeep-type vehicles.

(XJ, Wrangler and Grand shouldnt exist at the moment.)

* He has one of the most pro-environmentalist records in the Senate.

(Whats wrong with that? Keep the enviroment the way it is?)

* He supports the “Clean Power Act” with substantially more stringent limits on emissions for greenhouse gases, despite the fact that the global warming theory has been disproved by credible peer reviewed science.

(What sources? Ok so its disapproved, global warming can not and will not happen. So if I breath this air in I'll be okay, is it healty?)

* Plans a “Restore America’s Waters’” campaign that would, among other things, instruct all federal agencies that net losses of wetlands will not be tolerated, despite other considerations that agencies must legally make.

(Dont know much about this. But its okay to destroy animals homes?)

* Did not vote on Pres. Bush’s Healthy Forests Initiative (Healthy Forest Restoration Act) and later said he would have voted against the initiative had he voted.

(Dont know a thing about this. Is this the one that supports logging of public lands? If so, its alright if we go wheeling only to find the area we go is bare?)

* Supported Clinton’s Roadless Rule and has stated he would “revisit” the rule.

(Why do we need to build roads deep into the woods, where we wouldnt really be able to go anyways.)

* Promises to end the logging of old-growth trees on public lands, despite any considerations to the contrary that the health of the forest may depend on thinning of old-growth trees.

(How is going to make sure that not to much is taken out? How is logging the same as thinnning? What is the line between thinning and takeing everything? How can only a few trees in an area be taken out?? Its public land right? So we all own it, so that means the money that is made from logging goes into my pocket, right? So each week I get a paycheck!)

George Bush’s position on the environment, access, and motorized use:
* Opposes mandatory cuts in carbon dioxide and does not support the Kyoto treaty.

(Can we breath carbon dioxide? What health benefits are there to it? So while everyone else is cutting back we dont need to?)

* Initiated a “clear skies initiative” to replace the “Clean Air Act” with a market-based system to encourage companies to cut emissions voluntarily.

(Market based system? So we are going to leave how much crap goes into the air to the companies? Who holds them responsible if to much is realesed? Arent companies in the market to make money not spend it?)

* Passed the Healthy Forests Initiative to thin forests to reduce the risk of wildfire.

(How is this going to be done? Arent there trees miles upon miles into a forest how is a truck and a crew of people going to get there? What will this do for us wheeling? Will the roads be closed to us?)

*Suspended, then proposed replacing, the Clinton Roadless Rule. The proposed replacement would leave road building and other roadless area management decisions to the states.

(Nothing wrong with that. Dont we already do that? National forests are part of the fedral gov't so that should be left up to us the people.)

* 2005 budget will address his promises to eliminate forest and park maintenance backlog.

(About time somene adresses this. Well will this adress it, or fix it? Better to be fixed then just looked at right?)


On your market, ready set and type. Let the fun begen

[red91]

Guess what? You can be a republican and vote for a democrat.



This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...

[DrMoab]

issues biggest to me.
1:Land use issues. I can think of at least 50 roads and trails that I have been able to drive on for ever that are now closed...for no other reason then some a$$ hole in Mass. thinks it should be this way. THIS HAS GOT TO STOP!!!
2: The right to keep my guns. I do alot of shooting and hunting. I don't need some bastard like Kerry comming in and taking that right away from me.
3: Taxes. I don't know about the rest of you but I kind of liked having that 600.00 dollar check I got a few years ago.

There are more reasons I would never ever vote for Kerry...much less any democrat but those are the biggies to me.

You can say that things in Iraq would have been different if Kerry was in but how do you know? He has changed his mind so many times its hard to say what he would have done had he been in power.

[CW]

Z22_Z33, you do know you can keep typing on your original post and you don't need to make three consecutive posts right?
As for not seeing anything wrong with Bush, I see lots wrong just less about him irritates me. It's like the last episode of South Park, we are choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. There will never be a candidate that I would be completely happy voting for, the people on the balet are not the best people for the job they are the ones with the most money.

Mccain '08 :us:

[Willis]

How does someone even respond to that?

Your arguments are based on your fluffy little fairy tales.

Almost Kerry-like. ;)

Did I even put names with what I wrote? No, it was HYPOTHETICAL to show my point that much more matters in this election than land use, which everyone seems to dwell on.

My point was to get educated and vote for the person who represents you best.

[Willis]

This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...

That was just the primary, you did not elect anyone into office. You can now vote for which every candidate you like.

[Willis]

Colorado land at $5 an acre? That must have been quite awhile back. Yes, you can be a Republican and still vote for a Democrat; I've done it before and may even do it again, but there's no friggin' way I'll vote for a bastard like John Kerry...start with his traitorous actions in Vietnam and afterward and come forward from there.

BTW - John Kerry's camp likes to make it out as though George Bush ditched one or several months of obligated Reserve time. John Kerry had several YEARS of obligated time that he never once attended drills for...

It was in the last 4 years, I know that. It was in Crested Butte where 1/10th of an acre goes for $100,000. It was sold to a mining company. That company can do whatever it wants with the land, build resorts, condos, housing developments, or just subdivide it and sell off each 1/10th acre for $100,000, turning their $775 investment into a $155,000,000 return.

That was the first of 55 sales that were scheduled. I don't know if any others went through or not. There may have been an uproar and the Bush admin may have rethought the sales.

[Z22_Z33]

This statement is FALSE in relationship to the Washington State Primaries which clear states by "LAW" that you must vote your party ticket.

Welcome to hell Gentlemen...the show will be starting in 8 minutes...


Thank you very much politcal parties, and the US supreme court.
(Oh yeah for those that think I'm a dumbass, I was being sarcastic.)

[red91]

Thank you very much politcal parties, and the US supreme court.
(Oh yeah for those that think I'm a dumbass, I was being sarcastic.)


I could really WREAK HAVOC with this, but I wont...

[red91]

That was just the primary, you did not elect anyone into office. You can now vote for which every candidate you like.


NO, but what if their was a candidate that I liked that was not in my party. Why couldn't I have picked them instead of being steered by the government?

I call B.S....Let us pick who we want and leave us the F alone...

[Darky]

Morals and values? Sorry, I can't stop laughing. Dodge draft, go AWOL last month of duty, have no problem with my V.P. working for a company that did and still does business with the government of Iran, let oil corps. get rich by charging whatever they want regardless of the price of crude, O.K. the execution of a retarded man (mental capacity of a twelve year old) while governor of Texas, run every company he's ever been associated with into the ground...... the morals and values just don't stop. I've got to get off my soap box. I've ****ed all over it from laughing. I love living in a country where we all can have a debate like this, though. It's made possible by both political sides. I may not agree with what you're saying but I'll die for your right to say it, and I'm voting for Kerry. I gotta go work on my Jeep now so I can get all my wheeling before Kerry shuts down all the public land after he's elected. If John McCain were running I'd vote for him. Is there a Democrat you Republicans would vote for? I'm asking because here in Illinois we have been subjected to the fine Mr. Alan Keyes for senate. He's totally off base on so many subjects and not from our state. I know, neither was Hillary from New York. I just think it's sad that either party could parade out a candidate and someone would vote for him/her just because they consider themselves part of that party . Keyes is behind by 50 points but I can't see how anyone could vote for him. Sorry, I'm rambling, taking a break from the garage . Good luck on tuesday and don't kill me if you meet me on a trail.

Cheney worked for Halliburton, left the company to pursue his political career, and has no ties to them now except that they still owe him some of his pay check. You can't either responsible for what a company does while looking to make money. This goes back to capitalism, free trade, all that.
Bush can't stop the oil companies from charging what they want, that's called capitalism. He never dodged the draft, he enlisted in the Air National Guard, yes he probably did that to avoid being drafted but he still went into the service.