What's fair?

[97XJ]

What would be a fair price for installation of a
Powertrax no slip in a d35?

[Fore Wheeler]

$4.95

[ChuckD]

The cost of the no-slip is a crime at that. Do you already have the no-slip, if not, try ebay for a used Lock-Right.

If you can't install it yourself, then you do not deserve to have a locked D35. Sorry that I sound harsh, but you run the risk of blowing axles and you'll really piss off the guys you run trails with. If you can't fix your own stuff.

[Ted Z]

I would agree...If you can do a brake job you can sure do a lock-rite install.....

[THE_OWL]

A lot of people cant configure a cisco router, does that mean they dont deserve to be on the internet?
Some people dont even change their own oil.
I cant build a tranny. This is what keeps mechanics in business.
I believe dealerships get 4 billed hours of labor for a ring and pinion install. I would base it on that.
Not trying to flame but give the guy a break! :D

[ChuckD]

Ok, then you take care of his problems on the trail. I won't turn away if someone needs help, but usually on a run the last thing I want to do is fix my stuff, let alone someone elses.

Take a chance, there are numerous articles on the net, learn something.

[KarmirXJ]

:wstupid:

[THE_OWL]

Whos to say its even a Trail Rig? XJGUY has a slammed and blown XJ.
This isnt NAXJFORUOA North.American.XJ.For.OffRoad.Use.Only.Association

[dave]

200 bucks is what i am paying for someone to install an ARB in my d30.. and before i get flamed for not doing it myself.. i've never done it before and would prefer to not have to order more seals when i screw it up.. it may also be a touch of laziness :D

[REDXJ4FUN]

I'm with XJCHUCK. Paying some one to do a full case locker or ring and pionon is diffrent than just doing a lunchbox locker. They are very simple and when you break a shaft you should know how to fix it. Am I saying that if your aren a full blow mechanice stay off the trails, NO but the way you learn is to do. I see tomany people on the trails who have no clue yet big check books. They pay to have all this stuff done yet they have never even put the jeep in low range and there for have no clue what its capable of and how it works.

[AussieXJ]

97XJ asks a simple question, and he gets a bucket of cr*p thrown at him.
Sure people should have as much experience and know-how as possible to be able help themselves on the trails, but the best way to get them to that level is by encouragement and education.
You don't train a dog by kicking it now do you...or do you?

[THE_OWL]

Whats wrong with kicking your dog? If he pees on the broken-down cars in the front lawn, Ima gonna kick his arse, then go back into my house with wheels :D

|QUOTE|
If you can't install it yourself, then you do not deserve to have a locked D35. Sorry that I sound harsh, but you run the risk of blowing axles and you'll really piss off the guys you run trails with. If you can't fix your own stuff

Its easy to bag on the 50,000$ SUV owners.
But its like anything else. People have skills in some areas, and the areas they dont, they see a professional.
If we were hanging out on a Medical Bulletin Board and someone asked how to remove an appendix, All the doctors would laugh at him
See my point?

[AussieXJ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by THE_OWL
[B]Whats wrong with kicking your dog? If he pees on the broken-down cars in the front lawn, Ima gonna kick his arse, then go back into my house with wheels :D




:D

[Eagle]

XJChuck and others who piled on, you are out of line. When someone asks for advice on our forums, we try to give advice, not a load of BS and abuse.

If you don't wish to wheel with someone who for his/her own reasons chooses to have something installed on his/her vehicle, that's your choice. NAXJA does not ban such folks from our events, in fact we welcome them, so maybe you need to think about whether or not you wish to partcipate in NAXJA, or if you really belong more over on the Pirates of the Rubicon board.

There are many reasons not to attempt such an install. Lack of tools might be one, lack of a place to do the job might be another, lack of time might be a third. 97XJ's reason(s) don't matter. What matters is that he/she came here asking for help, and nobody answered the question.

As to those who keep saying "Lock-Rite," the question wasn't about a Lock-Right. The question was about a No-Slip. Yes, I know both are drop-in lockers, but the No-Slip is much, much smoother on the street. However, various people have commented that the parts don't necessarily fit without some minor alterations and "persuasion," so I would not fault a rookie for paying someone to have the job done right.

The pinion depth doesn't get changed, so the only real settings to be checked are side clearance and backlash -- and those shouldn't change, they should just be checked. I would guess 4 hours is a reasonable allowance.

[THE_OWL]

I tried to answer his question. Sorta.
|QUOTE|
I believe dealerships get 4 billed hours of labor for a ring and pinion install. I would base it on that.
Not trying to flame but give the guy a break!

Depends on where u take it really. You can expect that price from a dealer.
You can get a buddy or a small shop to do it for less maybe.

[MaXJohnson]

Originally posted by Eagle
When someone asks for advice on our forums, we try to give advice, not a load of BS and abuse...

If you don't wish to wheel with someone...
...that's your choice.

...maybe you need to think about whether or not you wish to partcipate in NAXJA, or if you really belong more over on the Pirates of the Rubicon board.

What matters is that he/she came here asking for help, and nobody answered the question.

...the question wasn't about a Lock-Right. The question was about a No-Slip. Yes, I know both are drop-in lockers, but the No-Slip is much, much smoother on the street. However, various people have commented that the parts don't necessarily fit without some minor alterations and "persuasion," so I would not fault a rookie for paying someone to have the job done right.


orneriness, properly directed; it's a beautiful thing :)

http://home.everestkc.net/alynloya/EagleFamily.jpg

A lunchbox locker, like a NoSlip is only a one or two beer job. No special tools required either.

[What Rd]

I'd suggest trying a compromise between attempting it yourself and simply dropping it in someone else's hands. My advice is to find someone who knows what he's doing and pay him what he thinks is fair considering that you want to help out every step of the way (I'd say anything over $100 keep looking, YMMV). That way you know it'll be dome properly AND you should be able to do it yourself the next time. I installed my own No-Slip with a buddy watching over my shoulder - and feel real good about it.
Good Luck to you.

[ChuckD]

Originally posted by XJCHUCK72
The cost of the no-slip is a crime at that. Do you already have the no-slip, if not, try ebay for a used Lock-Right.

If you can't install it yourself, then you do not deserve to have a locked D35. Sorry that I sound harsh, but you run the risk of blowing axles and you'll really piss off the guys you run trails with. If you can't fix your own stuff.

Wow, I'm Quoting myself. If you notice I apologized ahead of time for being harsh. I apologize agian, I guess some can't handle the truth.

cont. quote:

"Ok, then you take care of his problems on the trail. I won't turn away if someone needs help, but usually on a run the last thing I want to do is fix my stuff, let alone someone elses.

Take a chance, there are numerous articles on the net, learn something."

I will help anyone in need, and at this time I feel he needed to hear the truth, no matter how harsh it may seem.

BTW, what if he went out exploring alone, he would have to end up cutting off his arm or something just to get home. I'll try to be more tactfull, I have these allergeries, know what I mean.

Thanks for reading, :)

[bgcntry72]

XJCHUCK if there were any asshats like you on the trails where I got started, I would have thought better of it.
:next:

[Beezil]

for the record, naxja is not a forum, its a jeepclub.....

so yes, the majorit here will favor "on trail" situations.....

owl, your analogy is facile.....

I've been on the internet for a decade, and I've never had to re-rout a giglio-duwangus, yet just about every time i go wheelin, someone in the group or myself breaks. When you wheel, its assumed that each driver has somewhat of a clue, and its nice when the jeep owner becomes involved in leading the repair. Trail repairs can be a fun group activity and no one would ever bag on a guy for not being a good wrench on a naxja run, but I gotta side with chuck on this one...if you are putting in a locker that require ring and pinion set-up, I can understand folks wanting to duck out on that one, but a lunchbox locker is simple.....wrenching skills should match the degree to which the jeep is modified.

[THE_OWL]

Doesnt matter if its a Lunch box or a tool box (hows that for an analogy, get it?)
He told him he doesnt deserve to have a Locker in his D35 if he cant put it in himself.
I dont think you deserve a Computer if u cant write a PHP boleen script.
Im looking at the top of my screen, it says (copy/paste):

NAXJA Forums > NAXJA's Technical Forums > Modified Tech Discussion > What's fair?

looks like a forum to me

[THE_OWL]

I built and put a small block Chevy Motor, Aftermarket custom burned ECM, and loads of other crap in my Jeep.
But I wont be putting in my ARB and 30spline shafts in my D30.
Do I not deserve a D30 ARB?
thats facile

[Crunch]

Maybe I missed it, but I think part of the grief might stem from the fact that if you throw any locker in a d35, ya might need to know how to do trail repairs (assuming he wheels it). If he asked about a locker install on a 35 spline d60, it might have gotten a different response.

[Eagle]

There was no mention in 97XJ's original post of any modifications, of what size tires he/she runs, or of whether or not the vehicle ever goes farther off-road than the gravel parking lot at the local golf club.

I understand Chuck's opinion, but I do not agree with it. The way in which he expressed his response was unfriendly, rude, discouraging, and not at all in keeping with the traditional role of NAXJA to encourage people to become involved in off-roading.

Just out of curiosity: If you knew that 97XJ was an 18-year old girl with Parkinson's disease, would you have answered the same way? Would you tell an 18-year old anything with Parkinson's that he/she can't wheel with NAXJA if he/she can't rebuild an engine in the middle of a swamp? That's not what NAXJA is about. Not everyone in NAXJA or visiting our forums is a hard-core wheeler with mega-modifications. We should not be dumping on people new to the sport, we should be welcoming them and encouraging them.

[Ghost]

Ponte Vedre is near Jaxonville right? Come to South Carolina for the weekend and I'll hlep you put a lock-right type locker in! I just did one on my 84 D35.

[THE_OWL]

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=392790

Not promoting other "Jeep Clubs" (Forums) but heres the same post on another forum from the same guy.
Funny, No one bashed him there.
NAXJA is too leet!

[Beezil]

if you want "nice" (and pics of nice) go to JU.

if you want raw, honest, and experienced answers, then stay tuned.

another big difference:

debates are fun, theres always gonna be a difference of opinion....naxja is excellent, because MOST of our debates REMAIN debates.......they don't turn is to shit-slinging fests....

try that on JU.

Everyone should try their best to dump on eagle though, he actually LIKES it!

[Beezil]

BTW, Owl, Naxja is PRIMARILY a Jeep club, i know cause I co-founded it. We EMPHASIZE this by promoting chapter organization to help facilitate local and national trail rides. Naxja's first generation of discussion boards were created for the sole purpose of organizing trail rides. That's why I said "its not a forum". JU is a discussion forum. Naxja as a whole is VERY different becuase of the "club" aspect. Naxja's events are well organized and a lot of hard work is put into making each event special, and everyone has a great time. That is why you will find the responces on these boards "flavored" by the off-road set. You're gonna have to get used to that. If you'd like to sprinkle the boards with your own flavoring, the best way to go about that would be to be a MEMBER. We'd be glad to have you.

[Eagle]

Originally posted by Beezil
Everyone should try their best to dump on eagle though, he actually LIKES it!

The above statement is completely untrue, of course (SPOBI, in fact). However, Beezil enjoys it so much that I tolerate his excesses.

Beezil is correct, however, that what separates NAXJA from JU is the fact that we ARE a club first, with forums established to serve the members. JU is a forum, not a club, and it operates primarily to make money for the owner(s). The original founder of JU, Chris Henry, sold advertising space. I believe JU is now owned by 4-Wheel Parts (or one of the 4WD vendors), and they use it both to promote their own sales and to generate advertising from the manufacturers whose gear they sell.

NAXJA is not profit-oriented. In fact, we are incorporated as a not-for-profit organization, and we are legally prohibited from making more than 'X' dollars per year.

[ChuckD]

For the record:

I'm sorry, I was not very encouraging, I really sould not have hammered so hard on an honest question. So to 97XJ, I am truely sorry, please do not let my comment be taken personally.

I have an 87' D35 with a Lock-Right and 33" MTR's, am I asking for trouble, sure I am, I was trying to comunicate to you and to many others that you really need to understand your jeep, and the best place to learn that in in your driveway and not on the trail. Currently I'm in the process of upgrading to a D44, once I aquire all the parts.

Thanks to all the supported my agruement and also to those who have not. Unfortuantely I guess I kind of like to stir the pot, I know Eagle will put me in my place. :)

[ZPD]

Wow this is an exilerating thread. Almost as cool as the eclipse tonight. I just want to say that I agree with everybody. (how's that for sitting on the fence?)
The general consensus is that a locked 35 is asking for trouble. I agree with Chuck in that if you are going to gamble with that axle then it would be helpful to you to know how to repair it incase (read when) you ever need to. Lunch box lockers are relatively easy to install. I can't remember if the ring gear has to be removed from the carrier on the D35 but if it does and you can mark the position then you should be ok. If you are really hestitant to do the job then probably $100-$150 would get the job done.
No one is asking to be able to rebuild an engine on the trail with only a ocket knife and duct tape. I think that it is just being said that if you are going to go on a trail with others with a risky axle, bring spare parts, tools, and some willingness. I enjoy helping people but one thing I do hate is doing it for them. I am always afraid that if I bust it then I will get blamed for it.
With that said, go ahead and give a go. You will learn something and you will gain a bit of pride in your workmanship!

[bgcntry72]

Alright, after a night of much needed sleep, I would like to repeal the 'asshat' comment.
:next:

[REDXJ4FUN]

Ok let me answer it the way I realy should have.

It should be free to install, You should do it your self or find a wheelin buddy who has done it and have him help you or explain everything as he's doing it. I have installed them at nop charge for friends but they were there the whole time as i explained why you do what so that when the time comes hopefully they should be able to do it. also youshould invest in a set of spare shafts they run about 30 to 50 a pair. I carry at least one set of spare 35c shafts and i run a 44 so what does that tell you. I'm a trail guide for jeep jambo and camp jeep so I see stuff break all the time(last time it was my drive shaft:( ) but I the first to help some one out on the trail. I carrie alot of spare stuff and tools so that i am able to fix what ever may break on whoevers jeep.

[Ted Z]

Wow......that sounds much better....

[CRASH]

I'm starting to feel the love.....

:smootch: :kissyou: :smootch: :kissyou:

CRASH

[Ed A. Stevens]

Originally posted by 97XJ
What would be a fair price for installation of a
Powertrax no slip in a d35?

Lots of help to read, but little addressed to your question?

Ring and pinion install labor is priced in the range of $200-$300. Many shops who have never installed a lunchbox locker will try to get this as a "safe" estimate for the work.

The r&p does not need to be removed for this style of locker install. The removal need is the cover, and c-clips (on your 97), the axle shafts need to be slid out (not removed), and the spyder and side gears replaced by the locker components, before sliding the axles & c-clips back in and bolting the cover up with a new gasket. An experienced technician can do this install in less than an hour (waiting for the silicone to skin-up on the cover), two hours tops, or ~$100.

The confusion and conflict you read about the D35c is partly due to two version of the Jeep D35c: the early AMC Jeep (84-90) non-clip clip D35c, and the later SD Jeep (91+) c-clip version of the D35c.

The early D35c is more forgiving and handles large tires a little better. The late D35c is less forgiving. The D35 is a lightweight axle that works well for 30" tires but can grenade if abused (it has never been advertised as a heavy duty axle).

The problem with both D35c axles is the axle tubes and differential housing will flex under abuse (high torque loads and cargo loads or obsticle impacts). This flex promotes misalignment of the axle shafts at the differential side gears, and can sieze the gears or place a point load where the axle splines enter the side gears. The result is failed differential gears or a snapped axle at the splines near the side gear entry.

The D35c is not alone with these problems as the AMC Model 20 suffers similar failures when fitted with one piece axle shaft (with higher loads on larger size components).

The c-clip axle compounds this failure problem by placing a point load at the end of the axle shaft, at the turned down c-clip notch, where there is the most leverage on the axle shaft due to the flex (and the least cross section area). A locker increases the stress on the c-clip notch because the locker action binds the c-clips tight to the c-clip notch under housing flex, with the shear load from the housing flex combined with the axial load of the locker clutch action. This housing flex is one reason we read about more c-clip D35c failures than with other heavier housing c-clip axles (c-clip 8.8's and Ford 9.75's)

The "Super-35" kits utilize stronger axle shafts and locker components, and Superior offers a truss to combat the flex (to better resist the housing and axle tube flex), although durability reports are mixed.

IMO, I would avoid a locker with a c-clip D35c. I would avoid all the lunchbox lockers and even the true Detroit No-Spin carrier locker (too many failures). The Super-35 kits, the only configuration I would consider for the c-clip D35c, do not seem to hold up much better unless the axle and housing is trussed.

IMO (and direct experience) is that the non-c-clip D35c with a truss can take considerable abuse. I ran one for nearly 200k miles with 31's and an EZ-Locker and it is still intact (although the XJ now has a D44 & 33's). I believe the axle truss I used to run (a clearance robbing beast Go-Rhino skid plate truss) provided considerable flex resistance to improve the life of the axle shafts.

If you have a choice, and want durability with 31's, finding an early D35c to swap into the 97 is a better solution with a locker (if you cannot find a D44, 8.8, or other axle). Invest in an axle truss or have someone weld a axle tube bridge to truss the axle tubes. Carry spare axle shafts.

Keeping the open diff (or Track-Loc) c-clip D35c and using your funds to install a locker in the front D30 is also a better option (better than chance a locked & snapped D35c c-clip axle shaft, my opinion).

[Neil]

Boy Chuck you get cranky when you don't take your alergy medicine. Just look what you started. My advise to 97XJ is do it yourself if it works, great! if it dosen't then pay someone to fix it.

[Beezil]

I love it when chucks a bitch!

[woody]

35 shafts make nice mailbox posts

[CRASH]

35 shafts make nice mailbox posts

"I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee......."

CRASH

[KY Chris]

Originally posted by woody
35 shafts make nice mailbox posts

With a Super Swamper planter right around it?

[Ghost]

Boy you guys must live in the South!