Which atlas II?

[poomba]

Kay, looking at Moab/rubicon type rock bouncing...soo..which of the atlas t/c's do I need? Not really sure what the numbers on them translate to..though the 1800 to 2300 dollar pricetag kinda sunk home...

[sarvermr]

Kay, looking at Moab/rubicon type rock bouncing...soo..which of the atlas t/c's do I need? Not really sure what the numbers on them translate to..though the 1800 to 2300 dollar pricetag kinda sunk home...

i'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't even know what the numbers mean you're probably not ready for an atlas yet. those numbers are gear ratios. if you were ready for an atlas you would already know what ratio you need.

[ECKSJAY]

i'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't even know what the numbers mean you're probably not ready for an atlas yet. those numbers are gear ratios. if you were ready for an atlas you would already know what ratio you need.

So explain it to him instead of 'not trying to be a jerk.'

Poomba, hit me backchannel if you're seriously interested.

[Economos]

I'd go 4.3, but then again your stock case could easily get you through and you can redirect those funds else where on your rig.

[poomba]

So explain it to him instead of 'not trying to be a jerk.'

Poomba, hit me backchannel if you're seriously interested.

thanks, bro. pm sent.

[poomba]

i'm not trying to be a jerk, but if you don't even know what the numbers mean you're probably not ready for an atlas yet. those numbers are gear ratios. if you were ready for an atlas you would already know what ratio you need.

Well, he's from Little Rock, so that explains a lot. If he was from Hot Springs, I'd be able to explain that my t/c's been abused, and 3 attempts of using a BFH on the linkages (grin, Remi) didn't solve the problem. Shrug, it was a weakness I was aware of, and had hoped it had been corrected. Losing 4 lo in the middle of Poison Spider makes things..interesting. Was supposed to get it (atlas or comparable tc) put in the same time the dana 60's were thrown on, but ran out of time/money. As for being ready for an atlas, I'm ready for a tc upgrade. Could I get this one replaced with a stock one? Sure. It's been my philosophy to upgrade when a replacement was suggested. What I wasn't sure of, was which of the gear ratio's available suited my particular style of 4 wheeling, which was why I asked here. As for being ready for a piece of equipment, perhaps not. However, I'm sure with the above helpful guildlines, I'll just be able to stagger along, now won't I? Next time we're at a Naxja event, be sure and introduce yourself.

[poomba]

I'd go 4.3, but then again your stock case could easily get you through and you can redirect those funds else where on your rig.
Thanks, used to live in Greensboro, before dad read too many Louis L'Amour books and we came out West to look at the wrong end of too many cows. Figured since I was replacing the tc, and not impressed with standard linkages, I'd go ahead and do the Atlas and call it done. I'm trying to get the concept of rock crawling instead of rock falling, but the skinny pedal leg isn't listening. Funds..are important..but truly, just about everything's been changed but the tc and transmission, and the skin. Thanks for the reply.

[SeanP]

I run the 3.8 with 5.38s/AW4/38s. I really like the gearing, it has nice control rolling down off of rocks and down hills with the TC locked up. More gearing would be a little too deep for me.

I gotta 2nd the "if you don't know what the numbers mean=maybe you should do some research b4 spending the $2600" But, AA is made in USA and your expenditure will help the local economy, thx!

[BrettM]

If you have an auto tranny I would go with 3.8 with 35 inch tires or smaller, or 4.3 with 36-44" tires.

If you have a manual tranny I would get the 5.0 no matter what size tire.




There is a lot of wisdom to waiting and learning more before taking on a "hardcore" rig. Not being able to tell when you lost rear wheel drive, and not knowing how a u-joint goes together (fordyce trip) are pretty indicitive of a lack of general automotive knowledge that really is necessary to be doing what we do. Don't feel bad about it, I found NAXJA 3 years ago because I didn't know what the vacuum disconnect was on the front axle and why my 4wd wasn't working. 4 years ago I didn't know how to change my oil. Since then I have learned a MASSIVE amount from going through the normal process at the normal speed. I think you may be drastically rushing this process.

[sarvermr]

Well, he's from Little Rock, so that explains a lot. If he was from Hot Springs, I'd be able to explain that my t/c's been abused, and 3 attempts of using a BFH on the linkages (grin, Remi) didn't solve the problem.

what exactly does living in Little Rock explain? :huh: :confused: i moved here 4 years ago but lived the previous living in hot springs. i'm not saying you haven't beat the shit out of your case. i can see 2 main reasons you'd want an atlas.

1) strength: you're breaking shit and need a stronger case. but if all it is is the linkage, i'd much rather spend $25 over $2500 any day. replace the linkage.

2) gearing: but since you don't even know what the numbers mean i doubt you're too concerned with gearing.

so if you're getting an atlas for strength, get the gearing thats colsest to your current gearing. 3.0. that wouldnt be my choice, but it will give you strength and be almost like driving your current setup.

i'll make sure to introduce myself if we ever wheel together. like i said, wasn't trying to be a jerk. just trying to save you $2500. good luck. i'm sure you will love the atlas no matter what ratio you get. i'm definitely jealous.

matthew

[BornAgainXJer]

If you have an auto tranny I would go with 3.8 with 35 inch tires or smaller, or 4.3 with 36-44" tires.

If you have a manual tranny I would get the 5.0 no matter what size tire.
I don't understand why you would want the lower ratio with manual? Since 1st in the manual is lower then first in auto I would think you wanted to run lower gearing for the auto? Please explain as I am thinking about doing an atlas II 4.3:1 w/AW4 4.88's 33's (35's in the future)

[BrettM]

two words: torque convertor.

auto has one, manual does not. a torque convertor will basically double your crawl ratio. I swapped a manual for an auto for the sole reason that it was the cheapest way to get a good crawl ratio.

[BrettM]

and as far as your specific gearing, I have an AW4, 4.88s, stock 2.72 ratio t-case, and 35s. I think the crawl is almost perfect on trails like the Rubicon and Fordyce. I would like a little more, like a 4:1 in my t-case, or a 3.8 Atlas.

[Joe]

Have you looked into getting a NVG241OR Rock-Trac 4.1 and stronger than the 231 but cheaper than the Atlas. Just an idea don't know what the strength comparison between the atlas and the 241 is but it come with a 4.1.

:peace:

[BornAgainXJer]

two words: torque convertor.

auto has one, manual does not. a torque convertor will basically double your crawl ratio. I swapped a manual for an auto for the sole reason that it was the cheapest way to get a good crawl ratio.
Thanks for the info, so 35's w/ 4.88's and 4.3:1 is a bit of an overkill?

[XJJPR]

Thanks for the info, so 35's w/ 4.88's and 4.3:1 is a bit of an overkill?


No!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds great to me!


hinkley

[Goatman]

Kay, looking at Moab/rubicon type rock bouncing...soo..which of the atlas t/c's do I need? Not really sure what the numbers on them translate to..though the 1800 to 2300 dollar pricetag kinda sunk home...

Damn, you're really going to town after that Fordyce fiasco. Nice........ :D

I agree that the 3.8 is the best Atlas with an automatic, and the 5.0 with a stick. I have a Tera 4 to 1, and even with 37's I don't need it any lower. The extreme low ratios, with an auto, don't give you any more trail capability, it mostly just makes running rock gardens and downhills more comfortable. The torque converter already lets you control your crawling speed for the most part, so super low gears are more of a luxury than a necessity. The 3.8 is low enough to give the extra control that is the nice thing about lower gears, anything lower is sort of wasted. It's different with a stick, the lower the better, since the preferred driving style is to never push in the clutch.

If you want to save a few bucks, that Rocktrac case from the Rubicon TJ is a good way to go.

[XJEEPER]

Rocktrack 241 runs $1800 new from AA, FWIW

[sidriptide]

another thing to keep in mind is brakes.. too dep of a crawl ratio with an automatic will just "push" thru your stock brakes... it sounds to me like he's running 60s so i assume the brakes have been upgraded as well... just food for thought...

[DorkAlert]

Forget the Atlas....rebuild a Dana 300 it could cost you about half the price...check out this guys write up...

http://www.arizonatj.com/

He basicaly built an Atlas with 4:1 for well under $2000...

[BornAgainXJer]

No!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds great to me!


hinkley
That's what I was thinking

[Mike L]

That's what I was thinking

The 4.3 is the one I am gonna get as soon as the pocket book allows me to or I break something in the 231. Whichever comes first. I think the main concern with the 4.3 and an auto is whether the brakes are upgraded or not. I have heard of people with an auto, 4.88's, a 4.3 Atlas, and stock brakes not being able to stop while going downhill. The only way they can stop is to put the transmission into neutral.

-Mike

[korda]

Anyone have more input on gearing too low?

I was looking at a 3.8 or 4.3 atlas and someone brought up the point of being careful I wasn't so low the rig crawled through my brakes.

I've got 1/2 ton Ford brakes on my 44 front and the large GM calipers on the 60 rear. I've got a 4.0 with AW4, 4.56 gears in the axles on 35" tires, going to 36" next year. I'm running a corvette master with a wilwood adjustable prop. valve.

Thanks.

[BrettM]

Anyone have more input on gearing too low?

I was looking at a 3.8 or 4.3 atlas and someone brought up the point of being careful I wasn't so low the rig crawled through my brakes.

I've got 1/2 ton Ford brakes on my 44 front and the large GM calipers on the 60 rear. I've got a 4.0 with AW4, 4.56 gears in the axles on 35" tires, going to 36" next year. I'm running a corvette master with a wilwood adjustable prop. valve.

Thanks.
it sounds like you have plenty of braking power to handle either ratio.

However, the 4.3 (or even 3.8) may be too low for the type of wheeling you do. I have an AW4, 2.72 tcase, 4.88 diffs, 35" tires, and it's perfect for 99% of rock-crawling. If you do a lot of mud or wooded trails, you will likely find yourself geared too low with 3.8 or 4.3. They make a Highlander 3.0 case as well.

[What Rd]

IF all you do is rocks, particularly dry rocks, then low is the way to go. But as Brett said if you mix it up with wooded trails and muddy terrain you can easily gear yourself too low to be effective. Here in the muddy midwest, Rubicons are more handicapped than they are benefitted by their 4:1 t-case gearing (at least until they learn to run in higher transmission gears and really tach it up).
I currently run a 4.0, AW4 (with Brett's AW4 controller), 4.88s, 2.72 t-case and 33s. For the mix of wheeling I do, it's perfect. When I go a little taller, or start to get into big dry rocks more often, I'll want to go a little lower, but doubt I'd go as far as 4:1. I'm anxious to see what the numbers are going to be on the new 4-speed Atlas. Anyone know?

[BrettM]

IF all you do is rocks, particularly dry rocks, then low is the way to go. But as Brett said if you mix it up with wooded trails and muddy terrain you can easily gear yourself too low to be effective. Here in the muddy midwest, Rubicons are more handicapped than they are benefitted by their 4:1 t-case gearing (at least until they learn to run in higher transmission gears and really tach it up).
I currently run a 4.0, AW4 (with Brett's AW4 controller), 4.88s, 2.72 t-case and 33s. For the mix of wheeling I do, it's perfect. When I go a little taller, or start to get into big dry rocks more often, I'll want to go a little lower, but doubt I'd go as far as 4:1. I'm anxious to see what the numbers are going to be on the new 4-speed Atlas. Anyone know?
they're using np241 planetaries in front of their 3.8 Atlas, so you get 2.72, 3.8 and combined 10.*

[woody]

they're using np241 planetaries in front of their 3.8 Atlas, so you get 2.72, 3.8 and combined 10.*


I've been reading up on that, seems like the ticket for a medium WB rig.

Just for fun: a 5 spd XJ's crawl ratio is like 31:1 (low range/1st gear)

add bigger axles, NV4500, Atlas IV: 5.4 axle gear x 5.6 1st gear x (2.7 x 3.8 case gears) = 30:1 in hi-range/1st gear, 82:1 with the 2.7 engaged, 114.1 with the 3.8 engaged, 312:1 :eek: with both case sets engaged.

Skip the granny-gear tranny/keep the AX15: 20:1, 56:1 with 2.72, 76:1 with 3.8, and 206:1 with both lows. :D

[043500]

Supposedly once the atlas 4spd hits the market the 2spds are supposed to drop in price by quite a bit and the 4spds are supposed to comparably priced with the STAK 3 spd cases. THis is in a couple of the magazine articles I;ve read....not that I believe everything in magazines...BUT it makes sense.

[korda]

I guess I haven't had the same experiences that some of you guys have had. We do plenty of trailriding on wet, loose and very tight trails. The rigs I wheel with that have a 4:1 have that much more control in every situation. I woudn't describe any of them as handicapped.

Thanks for the input. I wish I had the cash to buy one of those new multi speed cases but I'm really stretching it as it is.