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newbie! will longer shackles cause my springs to sag?

Beej

NAXJA Forum User
This is another one that i have been researching, and although logic seems to support that longer shackles cannot cause springs to sag, lots of people say they do and that they have seen it. Is it really true? And if it is, why is it that they cause sagging springs? I'm considering adding longer shackles when i do the SYE at Xmas, but I'll go another route if they will cause sagging. The why part is the most important to me, I've already seen dozens of posts saying "my buddy ed says they cause sagging" but none have an explanation.

This will be my last newbie question for a while, I promise!!!

your pal,
Beej.
 
Its been my experience that XJ springs sag...Don't know why. I have run a RE 4.5 inch kit with stock shackles...they sagged...Then I ran $kyjacker 6 inch springs with stock shackes....they sagged...Then I ran Big Off road springs with longer shackles'''they really sagged then they broke. Now I am running a twelve leaf pack made out of the stock springs and some other various leafs and they sag too. Its not the jeep because they sag on different sides.
I have never heard about longer shackles making springs sag and I have been around XJs since 85. I really don't know how they could.
 
What about aftermarket spring packs like OME or RE? I would imagine that they have much less of a tendancy to sag like stock springs and shackles...
 
Overload 'em too much or wheel 'em real hard and any spring will eventually sag.
 
Thanks all, however, I already know that springs do sag over time. My springs have already sagged over an inch with stock shackles, that's why i want to boost them up. What i really want to know is, will adding longer shackles cause quicker sagging/fatigue and how?
 
I'm one of the people who say extended shackles cause spring sag. Others don't agree.

Here's how I see it working:

The XJ is a spring-over-axle configuration. That means at rest and unloaded the spring sits more or less flat. Under motion, when you crest a bump and unload the suspension, the spring curves up and when you load the suspension the spring curves (bends) down. The downward motion stops when the axle hits the bump stops. Remember, the suspension pivots around the front spring eye, which is fixed. The front half of the spring is stiffer than the rear half, so if the axle moves up, for example, three inches to hit the bump stop, the front half of the spring bends a bit but also pivots, while the rear half of the spring bends (deflects) downward about 5 inches.

Now fast forward to the same spring with a shackle that's 4" longer, for a 2" lift. Why a 4" shackle for a 2" lift? Because of geometry -- the spring and axle rotate around the front spring eye, which is fixed.

So, now we again load our XJ until the axle hits the bump stops. No extension ... bump stops remain as before. So the axle moves 2" farther up (or the chassis moves 2" farther down, whichever way is easier for you to visualize it). The front section of the spring is still stiffer than the rear section, plus the whole assembly pivots around the front eye, so the forward part of the spring doesn't deflect much more than it did before. But now look at the rear. The chassis is down on the bump stops, the front spring eye is in essentially the same relationship to the axle as it was when loaded under stock conditions ... but now the rear tip of the spring is 4" lower than it was with the stock suspension. Most of that difference is taken up by the spring bending to the rear of the axle. That's a lot more movement that it was designed for, and after enough of that the steel begins to fatigue because it is moving far enough to exceed its elastic limit and go into plastic deformation. Plastic deformation is non-recoverable.

At least, that's my theory. It makes sense to me, but as I saw in someone's sig on some forum, "In theory there's no difference between practice and theory. In practice, there is."
 
Good theory...I switched to longer shackles and I'm not sure if I've grown accustomed to the ride highth or actually sagged my springs some more...she rides level at least,,,
 
Beej said:
Is it really true? And if it is, why is it that they cause sagging springs?
No, they will absolutely unequivocally NOT cause your springs to sag. Time and wear cause yer springs to sag...not unlike yer wang.
That is, unless you don't adjust yer bumpstops! :D

PS, when are we going to see you above Sooke? Y'given up on wheeling the muddies? Season's getting good right now!
 
Beej said:
Thanks Eagle, I will be sure to lower my bumpstops if I decide to do the longer shackle route.
Beej.

yes, thanks Eagle, for explaining why incorrect bump stop length can contribute to spring sag. Looks like your finally coming around. ;)
 
sagging springs are a good excuse to buy better springs.
 
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