mission-inc said:
Well my first goal was to lift the heep. The more I save my cash and think about it, I wanna do it right the first time. By this I mean that I want to get a lift that I'll be happy with for a long time. I've decided to run 35" tires because they are pretty popular, which makes them cheap when you buy em used.
Now for the long arms. I've road in 2 jeeps, both of which running lifts around the same height. The main difference between them was that one had long arms and one not. The "short" armed one had one hell of a ride. Granted it was on a hard packed dirt road, but I could definetly tell the difference between the ride quality.
My cherokee is my daily driver, and although I don't like the fact that it's driven mainly on road, it is. I value a nice ride over almost anything else. I'm planning on not only getting long arms to help with the ride, but i'm going to be purchasing high quality cadillac type shocks (most likely OME).
Anywho, the main reason is the ride quality. I also would rather make it myself than purchase it to save money and for that self satisfaction you get after building crap.
I thought long arms were pretty strait forward, but I guess not. What do you mean by "performance parameters"? Ride quality vs. ground clearence i'm guessing. I'd like a balanced ratio of the two, but I suppose a nicer ride would be more pratical for my situation. In my mind I know a nicer ride is more pratical for a DD, but to be honest i'd rather have more ground clearence (I mean I do wheel and I know the importance of ground clearence).
Sorry if i've asked the wrong questions or not provided enough information, I wasn't really sure where I should start. I know what kind of tubing I'm going to use and all the joints and hardware and stuff, but now I don't know where to truly begin the project.
Thanks for the help.
You're asking good questions, so I'll try to give you some good answers.
Both long arms and 35" tires are not something that you want to do just because they are popular, especially if your funds are limited (buying used tires). Both take some serious consideration to do right. 35" tires, and the amount of lift required to run them, cause major reliability issues with the stock drivetrain and steering. 35" tires are too much for ANY stock drivetrain combination, of ANY year XJ. You may already be doing axle and steering upgrades, but if not, don't go to 35" tires. We all do this to have fun out on the trail, and breaking down is not fun. There aren't any trails that you will run where the 35's will give you noticeable performance gains over 33's. People on these forums have run the hardest trails out there in their XJ's with 33" tires. So, first of all, if you're just getting started, consider sticking with 33" tires, unless you are already doing major axle and steering upgrades.
The problem with a poorly designed long arm suspension system is the loss of ground clearance. Every long arm kit on the market has this problem. You said that you want a good ride since this is your daily driver. However, you also said that you want to wheel your rig and ground clearance is a priority over a good ride. This is exactly what I was referring to when I commented about "performance parameters". It's important to know what you want overall. A long arm suspension can be designed with good ground clearance, but it has to be all custom, and it's not easy to do. 35" tires and 7" of lift won't do you much good if you get hung up on low hanging control arm mounts that decrease your breakover angle. There have been many, many discussions about this, and a search should get you some good info and ideas.
If you are really doing mostly a bolt on kit, just making your own arms, you don't have many options. If you are really going to fab something up, then study the subject well and build carefully. Remember, the issue isn't arm length, it's arm angles. A lot more length is the easiest way to get better arm angles, but it's not the only way. If you're wanting to fabricate something, it's worth considering a slightly longer arm, with slightly lowered mounting locations on the frame and slightly raised mounts on the axle. Another choice is to use J arms with the stock mounts, or make a slightly longer J arm with modified mounts.
Other options are to stick with 33" tires and trim to make them work with 4-5" of lift, which will allow you to run the stock steering, and the lower lift will mean better control arm angles. You can also do more extreme trimming to run 35" tires on 5-6" of lift, and do some slight modifications to your control arm mounting positions, or use J arms.
We do a hardcore XJ trip every year that we call Best of the West, or BOTW. We've run the Johnson Valley trails, the AZ trails, the trails in Montrose CO, Avalanche Ranch, Parker AZ......basically the hardest trails in the west that people are running in XJ's. A couple of people run long arms, but most of our group run short or mid arms, and some run 33" tires. Jes, PorchPuppy, GRNT, and Rick XTRM XJ run short arms and 33's, and Kevin runs short arms and 35's. Erik and Mark Hinkley run J arms, and Paul Sinclair and I run a slightly longer arm, or mid arm. Here's a link to pics of our last run, if you want to see what I'm talking about.
BOTW '04
I don't mean to bombard you with info, or criticize what you're thinking. You asked some decent questions, and I'm answering in the best way that I can. I also think it's good to have a discussion about this now and then.
Happy wheeling,
exists besides wheeling is to share the knowledge learned.
