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4.0 to 4.6 Stroker Motor Questions

btl_fed_xj

NAXJA Forum User
I am considering Stroking my 1996 4.0 HO motor to a 4.6 but was wondering what is involved in getting this done. I know that Accurate Power ( www.accuratepower.com) sells a kit for the XJ but I don't know how tough it is to install. Has anyone in here put one of these kits on their 4.0 motor? How much do you think it would cost a speed shop to do the install?

I know the kit is about $1,300 which definitely isn't cheap but I am just about out of lower end performance items to install on this motor. Having done everything from CPU to intake to ignition and exhaust and a nitrous kit I going in next week I am about all out of performance upgrades so I think the stroker kit is the next step..... then the supercharger.

Thanks,

Jamie
'96 XJ 2dr & 2wd
 
dang jamie, that is gonna be one helluva screemer! I wanta da full detaiols

well, before you get too hasty with a stroker, id bore your tb and get a bored tb spacer, you could also go header and fuel injectors

stroking is something that you really should research before you dive in, check out the yahoo stroker group, and dinos site: http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/stroker.html

those will give you ideas, and anything that those 2 places dont answer for you, ask here...well help yah'

man, that xj being 2wd and all must BURN in the 1/4 mile

PS, I havent done this, but I will be starting in a couple of days, as pulling the motor i am going to stroke (out of my 89) and pulling the crank (out of a YJ 258) and then ill start the machine work and such, and so on and so on

its a pretty hard thing to do, but its nothing you cant do, as long as you go slow and easy and look at it like one big math problem, because there is a right way to do it, and a wrong way
 
Easy - stroking an engine, at the very basic level, is an overhaul with some parts substituted (usually the crankshaft and connecting rods.) A more detailed stroker project involves taking the block to a machine shop to have the cylinders bored over - usually .030" to .050" For instance, the 383ci SBChevvy "Stroker" (a personal favourite) is nothing more than the 350 Chevvy block, cylinders bored +.030" (to 4.030",) and the crankshaft and connecting rods from the 400ci SBChevvy installed. Why do this? The 383 Stroker offers more useful power than the 400, and is useful when you live under the influence of the Smog Nazis.

If you are going to stroke an engine, having the block checked by a competent machinist is always a good idea, unless you are going to buy a stroked short block (engine minus head) instead of just a kit. As a matter of fact, given your "what's involved" question, you may be better off buying it as a short block in the first place. A stroker can be done by a neophyte engine builder, but I'd not recommend it - there are a few dimensions that should be carefully verified before final assembly to preven ctastrophic failure. Stroker kits can usually be used with a minimum of worry, but I believe in knowing what's going on anyhow.

Also, if you get the short block assembly, make sure to let the shop know that you plan on nitrous and forced induction when you order, so they can "work their magic" to help you prevent a meltdown...

5-90
 
i jusy finished up a 4.7 stroker kit. never had any dealings with accupower but his prices are DAMN high. i did my stroker by using venolia pistons,eagle rods, a 258 crank,crane cam,and all other items in the motor new. (the same stuff accupower uses on there high dollar srokers) for less money than what he sells his base model 4.6 factory rod motors for. plus i have a 68mm r&b throttle body,roller rockers, and a new 2001 style intake. plus a borla header,non cat, 2.5 s.s. exhaust . any questions email me
i have great prices on this stuff.

scot
 
xjjunkie said:
i jusy finished up a 4.7 stroker kit. never had any dealings with accupower but his prices are DAMN high. i did my stroker by using venolia pistons,eagle rods, a 258 crank,crane cam,and all other items in the motor new. (the same stuff accupower uses on there high dollar srokers) for less money than what he sells his base model 4.6 factory rod motors for. plus i have a 68mm r&b throttle body,roller rockers, and a new 2001 style intake. plus a borla header,non cat, 2.5 s.s. exhaust . any questions email me
i have great prices on this stuff.

scot

dude, i might be askin yah to hook me up :D

as soon as i get off my lazy duff and email you :D
 
I've heard some negative things when it comes to using the Eagle rods and the 258 crank. Have you had any problems with this set up Scot? Also I would bwe interested to find out what and how much you would be willing to sell these parts to me for. Perhaps you could put a list of things I would need for the install in your own little "kit" and let me know what the pricing is.

Also do you know how much hp/torque increases you got from stroking the motor?

Thanks,
Jamie
 
I've been participating in the Yahoo Strokers' group for a long time, since before it was a Yahoo group. Sorry to contradict you lads, but Accurate Power's kit prices are extremely reasonable compared to what Hesco and Clifford charge for their kits. Keep in mind that Accurate's published prices are not fir kits using the weaker 258 rods and off-the-shelf replacement pistons, his kits use the stronger 4.0L rods with forged pistons custom designed to provide a workable compression ratio and deck height with the longer rods.

You may hope to do it on the cheap, but Accurate's prices are not too high for what he's selling.
 
well, eagle, accurate power is a damn good deal, compared to hesco and clifford, but remember who said that (xjjunkie) and that was coming from a dude who got the parts for cheap...

accurate power is a good kit, for the money and the quality
 
I forgot to mention that when doing the stroker using 258 rods, there is no way around the fact that the compression ratio will come out around 10:1 or higher, requiring premium gas. With Accurate's kits, you can select pistons to give you the compression ratio you want for street use with 87 octane. Someone considering nitrous and/or a blower should definitely not be trying to do this with 258 rods on the cheap.
 
If i may chime in here, I have accurate powers short block, its been un for about 2 years now and it runs like a raped ape. All the power i need and i beat the snot out of it, and it's held up so far.

In my opinion his kits are probably the cheapest(price wise) out there, and quality is not an issue(top notch).

And i have one of his first motors....
 
Eagle said:
I forgot to mention that when doing the stroker using 258 rods, there is no way around the fact that the compression ratio will come out around 10:1 or higher, requiring premium gas. With Accurate's kits, you can select pistons to give you the compression ratio you want for street use with 87 octane. Someone considering nitrous and/or a blower should definitely not be trying to do this with 258 rods on the cheap.

youve got to be kidding me, 10:1 compression on 258 rods? i thought the highest was 9.7:1?
 
Eagle said:
http://www.jeep4.0performance.4mg.com/photo3.html

Scroll down to the section "Long Rods vs. Short Rods"


Dino fails to mention that a few stroker build-ups have had success with short 4.2 rods, decked blocks, and "custom" pistons with the correct dish volume. Greg Friedman's MJ is a good example with custom forged pistons that have a machined dish volume and shape to optimize the quench band and CR. This MJ runs well on 87 octane (and you will have to ask Greg for a power comparison to his 4.9L XJ).

The long 4.0L rod demands a custom piston, so getting the correct dish volume is part of the piston design. There is no off-the-shelf piston that can be adapted to work. The AP pistons work well because they are a clean design, not an adaptation of a piston designed for another configuration.

The short 4.2L rod has a few off-the-shelf piston combinations that come close enough to work without implementing a new piston design (with the Quench/CR limitation). These are not ideal, for a low octane street driver, although recent build-ups have been successful after machining the dish of the KB Silvolites deeper to lower the CR (no long term data, yet).
 
Ed is correct, as usual. I think it is Andreas Ritterbusch who machined a larger dish in a set of stock Silvolites to reduce the compression ratio. The problem is that this takes away material from the top of the piston. The original post referred to using nitrous and then going to a supercharger, so I didn't feel comfortable recommending an approach that may significantly weaken the pistons when the questioner is obviously looking for an engine that will hold up to more than normal street driving stresses.
 
I agree with Eagle, I need to wait and see if the machined Silvolotes last before recommending them for a stroker.

The forged piston options (AP or other) should work (but look and read some, because all of the forged piston designs are not equal). N2O is not much of a concern with a forged piston, and supercharging will need careful attention to CR.

The potential results should prove interesting (I think AP built a supercharged stroker).
 
now that we got 2 gurus on this subject, would you guys reccomend a 258crank/rods and the sealed power h802cp pistons? bored .030?
 
A recommendation would have to take the total assembly into consideration, and a few other factors.

The standard shelf stock 4.0L piston choices (SP, K-B Silvolite, F-M, TRW, etc.) do not have a deep enough factory dish to reduce the compression, and assemble the engine with a tight perimeter quench band, with the extra stroke of the 258 crank. Simply assembling the engine with the SP pistons will go together, and will work with 91 octane fuel, but there is additional work that can make a better package.

Much of this additional work is already covered if you buy a quality package (like the AP kit) with a custom piston, but you ask about the shelf stock pistons.

If you go with a shelf stock piston you should consider the later years design, with metric rings, because they have a better skirt design to reduce piston slap. The rings are more $$, but it's a better design. The other coinsideration is to select a hypereutectic cast piston, the strongest and lightest cast piston type (I know the K-B Silvolite is).

The process to tighten the perimeter quench band clearance to factory 4.0L (or tighter) with any of these pistons requires decking the block, something that increases the CR as well.

The result is a need to run 89 or 91 octane fuel, and/or a longer duration cam to bleed off the low rpm cylinder pressure (and lose some potential power). The potential loss of low rpm power is a relative concern, because these combinations will still put out 200+ lbft of torque off-idle.

This is the basic budget stroker package. The detonation potential with the high CR and high compression pressure at low rpm has demanded fine tuning of the ignition (where the Renix has an advantage), fuel flow tuning (fat injectors and adjustable regulator), and attention to the cam selection (the stock cam is almost guaranteed to ping). An owner who simply wants to throw the assembly together and expect it to run with no fine tuning, like the factory 4.0L (with more power), will probably be better off buying a kit with a custom piston.

The improvement options at this point (with the 258 rod) are to increase the dish or chamber volume (custom piston or head machining) to lower the CR, or ... not deck the block and use a fat head gasket to increase the quench band clearance to something greater than 0.110" (make the assembly non-quench compliant). Both methods reduce the CR to allow for 87 octane operation.

The larger piston dish (machining or a custom piston) keeps the combustion chamber shape compact and lowers the CR. This is how most modern engines are designed, because it improves power and fuel economy, and lowers emissions. This is what the custom pistons accomplish (with either rod).

The non-quench assembly runs the risk of higher emissions and a long term potential for detonation if the chamber builds carbon deposits (deposits that will possibly reduce the quench into the range where detonation could be a problem). Modern engines and modern fuel run fairly clean, so it's not likely to be a problem until really high mileage (150K+).

The difference in power between these configurations is probably not that great (not noticable unless you instrument the package). The same lack of significant power difference can be said of a comparison between the long and short rod packages (not much difference). There is a lot of noise about the short rod being less reliable, and the long rod a better potential for power, but there are many 300K mile 258's and many very happy short rod I6 racers who will tell you the power is more than adequate.

This takes us back to your question. The combination will work if you have the builder consider the compromises to balance CR/Cam/Quench/fuel. Dino's pages summarize what has been proven to work with the power estimate results from plugging the info into Desktop Dyno. The only reported drawback is the attention to tune the finished assembly properly and the possible need to select slightly rich injectors (more likly with the Mopar MPI, less so with the Renix).

My opinion is, that a custom piston (a J-E like Greg's 258 rod stroker) is a better choice for the flexibility it allows, by having the proper chamber/dish volume. A custom piston consideration opens the door to the long rod assembly (like those provided by AP). Either custom piston route is a forged piston that will easily handle the abuse of N2O, or high rpm (if you incorporate head work). I read people who dislike forged pistons because of the reported noise and greater cylinder clearance, but IMO a high performance engine should run a forged piston (I have never had a problem).

If Jamie plans to run N2O and larger valves with beneficial porting and a healthy cam the answer is a forged piston (no question). The step past bolt-on performance, and into the cam and head improvements, are where dramatic power increases occur (and more attention to fuel and ignition tuning). The power improvement of swapping the cam to one of the larger grinds (larger than the Crane 901') and cleaning up the ports is noticable (butt dyno as well as ET slips) once the fuel delivery is matched (larger injectors). The AMC six with MPI is fairly forgiving with a large cam and large injectors (you will not lose much low rpm power by building for the 4000-5500 rpm range).
 
jebus ed, that is great info, i might be going the keith black route...anyone know where i can find those pistons? for a decent price?

thanks for the info!

:)
 
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