dealerships

[jneary]

frequently while reading posts on this site i see the term "stealerships" being used. the dealer has nothing to gain by ripping customers off. they dont just hire the average joe to fix your car. sure they can cost more for the services, but that money goes to pay for specialty tools , factory training, etc. there are many times we see customers come in after spending a small fortune at the independent garages, to get their problem fixed. often it isnt anything but a small part, or just raplacing the aftermarket junk that was just installed. a lot of the independents will replace a number of parts for just one complaint, hoping one of them will correct it. and yeah some of the parts can be more costly, but they have to back them up for 12 months or 12,000 miles. what aftermarket shop does that. oh wel just had to vent. go easy on us.we need to make a living too.

[G.Q. Jeeper]

I understand your point, I do not use the term personally, but I do understand why some do.

There are scrupulous dealerships out there and I guess when people do cross them it is costly. The auto industry is very lucative and there are some people in it that are shady, just like some comsumers that are oportunists.

My complaint is that some parts in comparasons is outragous in prices, take for example (I live in Canada) my T-Case is shot, I can get it rebuilt at a aftermarket shop for $500.00+labour = about $675 in total, thats R&R with warrenty. Now take my beloved Exhaust Manifold, there are none at the wreckers (that are any good, suprise suprise) and the dealership wants $869.00 with out the new bolts and gaskets and labour, so the price is well over $1000 CND when all is said and done. Chrysler knows the factory manifolds are junk, and sells better ones at a outrageous mark up, in comparisons to the T-Case, which is aftermarket.

That is my experience so far, as for others I am sure there are more examples, and it goes both ways, however the industry has done a poor job at making itself more customer focused, and trustworthy, just my opinion.

GQJeeper

[jneary]

the dealership doesnt control the prices. we use the labor time guides just like any other shop and sell the parts at manufacturer prices. i guess thats the price of quality parts, as far as the exhaust manifold goes, if the vendor didnt think it would last he would provide a better product. some times it takes a while for problems like this to happen. and not all go bad. i have 187,000 miles on mt 89 and original manifold. fortunately the manufacturer can find their week spots and redesign the part so it would last longer. if they didnt care they wouldn't redesign it.

[AZ Jeff]

jneary, I understand your point. I think part of the issue is two things:

1. not ALL dealers are equally competent. Some of them really have bumbling idiots in the shop.
2. most people assume that "parts is parts", and wonder why a frammus valve from the dealer costs $130, but they can get a Chinese made copy at Cheapo-Auto for $50. They assume (not necessarily accurately) that the dealer is "ripping them off" for equivalent parts.

Bottom line--there are good dealers and bad. If you find a good one, and buy parts and service from him, then you are not likely to refer to him as a "stealership".

[jneary]

maybe its just me. i would rather pay a little extra to get factory trained techs and factory parts than aftermarket junk. even being a tech, i take my lincoln to the lincoln dealer and my wifes trans am to the pontiac dealer. besides they keep the history on the vehicles in case any warranty discrepecies come up. do the independents keep your records?

[G.Q. Jeeper]

No argunment there with the prices and labour agreements, I know its the maufacturer that has alot to do with it, however it becomes the dealership that wears the blame when things go wrong, and thats why when some mention "stealerships" they are complaining about Chrysler/GM/Ford/Honda etc. corporate issues and some are complaining about management staff at the actual dealership, which in case if that is the issue, and it was not resolved, they should try another dealership, no question about it.

As for my exhuast issue, this is were I got a bit upset as a consumer, my XJ has about 130,000 miles, and the manifold is totally dead, I check all the weckers in my area and more, all say the same thing, they are no good, and they do not sell them as the have a very high failure rate, and most come back under thier warrenty services. I am stuck with the aftermarkets, Borla, Headman...etc...or factory. If this is such a problem with a certain part, why can't Chrysler offer this part at a very discounted rate?, I know its all legal and all if they admit fault (god forbid you are responsible for your actions) but why not sell it as a loss leader? They (Chrysler) of all automakers need to improve thier image and need to be better than the competition, just look at Lexus and Infinity, if DC had forsight and good P.R in mind, they would just sell things that exceed industry/consumer standars, and not let things slide,and let the dealership wear the brunt of the problems.

GQ

[G.Q. Jeeper]

Just to add a point. I do have a Chrysler dealership that I do buy parts off of, they guy drives a Jeep, and gives me great prices whenever he can, plus he does help out with techical work too, I am totally satisfied there.

I for the most part get my work done at a local garage, he keeps all records of work done on my Jeep and stuff, plus he too give a one year twelve thousand mile warrenty, again very satisfied.

No complaints in general, execpt for that Exhuast manifold...LOL


GQ

[XJ91]

From another Canadian.

I have three dealerships all within 20 minutes drive.
A while back I needed a fuel pump for my '91XJ.
1) Closest dealer to me $260.00 CAD
2) Second closest and one I do buy parts from as the tech is a bud of
mine $260.00CAD
3) a good 20 minute drive $299.00CAD.

I ask why he sells the pump at that such a high price price, his response was. "It's a dealer part, I don't set the prices." I say why are they cheaper at so & so Chrysler? He says then why did I call him? Like WTF?

For the most part if I need a part that is reliable I will shop around but most time purchase from the dealer BUT install it myself.

[8Mud]

I guess Jeep Europe is a somewhat a different animal, than Jeep USA, but it may be, that policy is moving East to West.
Took the Jeep in for a seat belt recall, deicded to have an oil change while I was at it. Ran synthetic, was told, synthetic (at the time, was a special order item). Brought my own oil. Get a bill for $365, they decided I needed new plugs and a tune up, the oil that was in my Jeep, was green (don´t know where my mobile 1 ended up) and the seat belt, was still stuck.
Dealer Number two, took the Jeep in for a front end alignment. They phoned the wife and said it needed a tie rod end. I said show me, nothing wrong with the tie rod. Dealer informed me they had a pedigree from Jeep and who was I to tell them anything. Refused to give me my keys back and said that the vehicle was too dangerous to drive. I used my extra set of keys and drove it to the Auto Club for an inspection, tie rod was OK.
Dealer three, went in to buy a new Jeep, had my working clothes on. Left me standing there for an hour and a half, with $20,000 in my pocket. Ignored the heck out of me, guess I looked poor. Jeep is trying to be an up market product, like Mercedes.
Dealer four, sat at the parts counter for over an hour, guy came in and said he would be back after lunch.
Dealer Five, finally found a guy that would take care of me. Damiler closed him down and moved the Jeeps to the Mercedes lot.
Dealer six, was informed the parts on the shelves were for the in house Mechanics, customer walk-ins were all special order, pre paid. Almost exactly half the parts, I´ve gotten, have been wrong and the refund policy for hard parts, concessionar parts and electrical parts are all different. Have some parts sitting on the shelf, I´ll probably never use.
Dealer seven, called for the recall list on the wifes, 95, was informed there are no recalls, for vehicles with over 50,000 miles.
I´m not even going to tell you guys about a special order, XJ. That got built with two pages of extras, lost in cyber space, that I got stuck with. Got a $1000 rebate and an offer of the extras being installed locally, for the factory price. Which wasn´t really bad on paper, but I didn´t fancy, trying to rebuild a brand new XJ, at the local dealership. :puke:

[DharmaDog]

Another thing to consider is that generally people post about bad experiences with dealerships because it is frustrating to deal with them sometimes, but rarely do people post about good experiences with dealerships.

Having said that, most of my dealings with dealerships have been less than satisfactory. Recently I took my Jeep to the dealer for the backfiring/hesitation issue that you in fact help me solve. Thanks very much, BTW. They charged me several hundred dollars for a glorified tune-up that had absolutely no impact on the problem. They insisted the O2 sensors were bad and wanted another $425 to replace those (I didn't go for that.) You helped me determine it was a simple fuse that had blown. It makes me think that they just don't really care about the customer or are not willing to try and solve the problem. It leaves the impression that they just want to throw parts at a problem until the problem or the customer goes away.

I had an Acura for a while and they were perhaps the worst. I had a Saturn back when they came out and they were by far the best. They at least acted like they gave a crap about the customer. I blew my engine racing my Saturn SC2. I admitted I blew it racing and they repaired it no questions asked. They even flew engineers/technicians out from their HQ in Spring Hill, TN to rebuild it and replaced stock parts with upgraded parts that were not in production yet.

Ford was OK, not particularly good or bad. Jeep has been just slightly better than Acura. Three weeks after I got my Jeep in 1997, a Dodge truck shaved the front of my Cherokee in a parking lot. The dealer took the A/C system out for whatever reason during the repair and gave the Jeep back without reinstalling it. That was in December. I didn't realize I didn't have A/C until April. When I came back they instantly knew what I was talking about like they were just waiting for me to come back. How about picking up the phone and letting me know?

I've just come to expect lousy service from large companies. They don't have to be car dealers. Cable, phone and computer companies are worse.

But don't take others' bad experiences with dealers as a reflection on you.

[Kejtar]

maybe its just me. i would rather pay a little extra to get factory trained techs and factory parts than aftermarket junk. even being a tech, i take my lincoln to the lincoln dealer and my wifes trans am to the pontiac dealer. besides they keep the history on the vehicles in case any warranty discrepecies come up. do the independents keep your records?
You just opened up a whole can of worms. I will tell you this: in this day and age there is no pride in one's worksmanship. Everyone wants to make a quick buck and that's it.
Dealer parts? A local dealer at first used to charge me an arm and a leg. Then when they found out that I know what I'm talking abotu and that I bring them some business and even helped one of their sales guys answer some quetsion for a customer (long story) they started to charge me less. Now I have an "in" and I pay even less and still not all the parts are worth getting through a dealership. I will buy there things like CPS, TPS and so on, but for example taillights can be had for late model XJ's through quadratec for about a third of what the dealership charges!! And I bet you money there is no difference between the two if you compare side by side.

[Atl XJ]

I'll stick up for my local dealer I deal with. I've never dealt with their service department since I havent had any major issues with my Jeep and I do my maintenance myself, but their parts guys are very knowledgeable and very friendly to deal with. Their sales people are surprisingly knowledgeable and most of the people at their dealership actually drive Jeeps and love Jeeps. I have also dealt with their collision center and they did top notch work.

I also wanted to add that I think its very cool of you Jneary to come on here and help us diagnose our problems. I understand that it must be pretty frustrating for you to constantly read people bashing the dealers.

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Jneary I assume my comment about dealerships is the one that pushed you over the edge. I really probably wouldn't have any problem with them except for the one here in Des Moines just sucks. My whole family has dealt with them at one time or another and they have screwed us all, and consequently they keep doing it. All other dealerships in Des Moines are fine except them but the problem for me is if I dont want to use them the other closest Jeep dealer is like 40 minutes away. Really not meaning to rag on dealerships its just that the plain and simple fact is that this one sucks.
My .02-Collin

[imma honky]

While I have not gone to mu local dealership for service, I have gotten a few parts. Were they high? Yes. But did it work? Yes. They guys in my parts dept are awsome. I'm usually in and out withing 5 minutes. And as for parts cost difference. YES, there is a price difference b/t dealerships. We have 3 chry/co dealerships within 30 miles. I called each one up for price quotes. The part i was ordering was a replacement CCV tube (both parts). The price difference was about 30 bucks b/t the lowest/highest. Can you explain this? Welp, anyways. I have no quarms with my local dealership, except the sales people are very shady, which is why i would never buy a vehicle from them. But their parts people know their stuff and are straight up guys.

[Cottontail]

Jeepguy1990---are you talking about Bud Mulcehey? My family has driven rom Iowa City just to buy from them. They also have a lot of dealing with "Jeep Outdoor Club of Central Iowa." It appears that they do a lot of sponsorships for their activities. (www.jocci.com) While I have no personal dealings with them, just what I have read from the above website, they seem to know what they are doing.

That is interesting. On a side topic, there is a Hansen Dodge I believe in DSM as well--on Ingersoll I think. It's been awhile since I lived in DSM. His son or brother owns Hansen Chrysler/Jeep here in Nashville. They have been 100% top-notch for us to work with. I don't think they ever did any work on the XJ, but do all the ZJ work for us.

Good luck!

[8Mud]

Wasn´t bashing Jneary, appreciate the help, he has given me. Mainly the two points I wanted to make, is there are good dealerships and bad dealerships. And when you find a good one, cherish them, they seem to be a rare breed.
Second, Daimler has there way of doing things. Don´t believe things are going to change for the better. If Daimler institutes, policies that are normal here, prices for everything are going up and dealer independance, is going to become minimal.

[Eagle]

jneary, there are "dealers," and then there are "stealers." IMHO most of the Chrysler dealers who now also sell Jeeps fall in the "stealer" category. They sell vehicles like commodities, and their mechanics (don't even like to call them that, but I sure won't call them "technicians") probably can't fix a wheelbarrow. These are the shops whose parts departments can't find the right parts, or they tell you it's been discontinued, so you drive to the next dealer and his parts guy says "No problem, it'll be here at 8:00 tomorrow morning."

Sales dork at one dealer was trying to talk me into trading in my XJ for a new model. One of the features of the new model he was touting was "owl" tires. That's right ... "owl," like the bird that hunts at night. Not "outline white letter" or "oh double-u ell" ... "owl." It took me several minutes to figure out that he wasn't talking about a new brand of tires. Once I got it, I just walked away.

The same dealer talked me into doing the tech bulletin to remobe the C101 connector on my '88. Service manager told me it would improve gas mileage, eliminate long crank times, eliminate "early morning drive-off stall," and improve emissions. They socked me over $500 to do it. It didn't improve ANY of the things he told me it would. When I asked him later, he denied ever saying it would improve anything.

A week or two afrer having this done, my XJ failed an emissions test. They replaced the O2 sensor and I passed. They told me it wasn't bad when they worked on it. Looking back at previous emission test reports, I could see that it had started to go bad two years prior. They just didn't check anything after they did the C101 job.

Later I read that there was a recall on the original O2 sensors for the 88s. I asked, and they said well, yeah, we can probably get back the money you paid for that. Months went by and I never heard anything. Finally I went in and asked. "Oh ... didn't anyone call you? Yeah, we got your money back." They weren't going to tell me, they were going to pocket the money unless I remembered to pursue it.

Asked the service manager at another dealership about switching to synthetic oil. He got this horrified look on his face and said "You don't want to do that! It builds up too much pressure on the highway. It'll blow all the seals out of the engine!"

There are some situations where factory parts are better than aftermarket. For others, they are identical. I try to differentiate. As to service ... there are five people I will allow to touch my Jeeps other than myself: my brother (and I'm starting to worry about him); my racing friend, Joe; my NAXJA friends Erich and Chris; and the shop foreman at the dealership where I now buy parts. I've seen the work some of their other "techs" do, and I don't want them near my Jeeps. And this is probably the BEST Jeep dealer in Connecticut.

[ryurabbit]

I am a parts manager at a Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler dealership in CA. I work very hard to provide my customers with the best experience possible. Several things I have noted over the years.

1. Customers are usually unhappy when they get here because there vehicle is broken. (I actually have customers with no problems come in just to talk because I am such an avid 4wheeler, Especially the XJ crowd.)

2. Customers expect the same part prices at the dealership as the aftermarket. Parts is Parts is there attitude. I have actually shown people the difference in quality and they storm off to yell at there local auto parts store guys because they told them they have the "same" parts cheaper.

3. Customers are largely uninformed and already believe they will be ripped off before they actually get here. I have had customers say wow thats all for that, and another customer with the same part says holy crap thats exspensive.

4. (Pay particular attention to this one) Dealerships are permitted to charge whatever they want for a part to the consumer. YOUR ATTITUDE AND DEMEANER WILL AFFECT YOUR PRICE! There is a standard price matrix set up by Chrysler and we can discount or add as dealership policy permits. You as a consumer will usually get "list" or higher price. If you are a regular and buy parts from me regularily, You will get lower prices.

5. Some dealerships are better than others. Look for the dealerships were the turnover is low. Same guys for long periods of time usually points to happy employees, experienced people and a willingness to go the extra mile with customers. Be advised that this holds true for individual departments more than a whole dealership. My dealerships has been through 3 service managers in 5 years, and 6 sales managers in 9 years. My parts dept employees have been here 11,10,10 and 4. We have only been open 11 years!

I hope this helps some of you to understand and I'm not just Hasta

[8Mud]

RYURABBIT have heard some good things, from Prerun93 about your help. Word gets around, even across continants and oceans.

[Kejtar]

RYURABBIT have heard some good things, from Prerun93 about your help. Word gets around, even across continants and oceans.
Yup... Rabbit is a great guy to deal with.

[basalt51]

Well. I'm about to find out how good my local dealership is. My powersteering hose started leaking and I needed it fixed ASAP to go on the a run this weekend (should be leaving any minute). I also need a major service so I just had the dealer do it all. Same dealer, 2 different people at 2 different times, quoted me ~$500 for a 60K service minus anything having to do with axles and minus the TC plus the trans ( I thought) and $90 labor for the PS hose, $25 from one and $26 from the otehr for the hose. My wife drops the XJ off and she gets a $860 estimate. WTF!!!! I call to find out what the difference is and the 2nd guy tells me something about possibly $200 more for some expensive fluid if required. OK, I guess. Pretty sure I didn't need the "expensive" fluid. He also says something about the Transmisison service being more, which I know I talked about the first time around.

So I pick it up yesterday and sure enough, $867. I figure oh well, take a quick look over the bill (which was very vague) and pay the bill. I look deeper into the bill at home and parts and oil was only $100 total. No extra $200 for expensive oil. So I look at the sercive write up. Pretty much what they told me. About $550. Tehn I look at the PS write-up. $270 labor!!!! Needless to say I'm heading over there to see why the labor was 3 times what they told me it would be. I'm convinced its becuase they had a $870 estimate and wanted to bill it all out. I'll be nice at first. After that, fawkem. They shold have told me it would be almost $300 for labor. I would have changed the hose myself.

Ryurabbit - any idea how long it should take to change the pressure side PS hose? Looks pretty simple to me.

I'm may just stop payment on the CC if they don't refund any labor ove rthe $90.

[Shanbo44]

I sold cars for a Jeep dealer and will always have my guard up going into the dealership! (unless I'm going to see rabbit) It is unfortunate, but there have been some many bad things that have happened to people I know and I have seen some shady stuff! It is unfortunate that the actions a few have affected so many good people.

[RichP]

I avoid having work done at a dealer at all costs unless it is something I just down't want to do like in the middle of winter. My last dealer repair was the emergency brake handle, only reason I took it in was because I was hoping it would be covered and once there was quoted $80 for the whole deal, heck, I was there, they said 45 min, it was january and I was out in 35min. Before that it was two factory recalls for the front rotors and airbag relocation thing. I also got the old handle assembly back and built a new button out of aluminum so I'm ready for next time. As for parts, heck, I've been cultivating the local dodge dealer parts dept, get a nice discount on stuff, they even let me put my business cards and brochures there :D but it's a small local bunch that I run into at the diner on weekends and the chinese take out during the week and I used to run into the service manager at my daughters soccer games and practices.
I have no problem paying a bit more for parts from the dealer for normal OEM stuff like plugs, wires, caps, rotors, hoses, tstats, etc. There are 7 parts stores within 4 miles in this town so belive me, they are competetive. I also think they take you more seriously when you walk in with a FSM and show them the part you want, seems to point you out that you were willing to spend the extra $100 for 'The BOOK' and not settle for a chiltons/haynes cliffnotes manual...

[BIGSLVRXJ]

Cottontail- I am talking about Bud Mulcahy's. They aren't bad to buy from just tell your family to keep their Jeep away from Bud's service dept. Thats an interesting link though I had never heard of that organization before you linked me up.(nice)There is a Dodge dealer on Ingersoll called Stew Hanson's Dodge City(I'm sure its his son probably that owns the one you're thinking of) but if I'm getting my Jeep serviced I like to take it to a Jeep dealer because Hanson's is only Dodge, although I guess Dodge dealers would have mopar parts.....hmmmmm. Funny how small of a world we live in, good touching so close to home.

[jneary]

thanks ryurabbit for helping me defend the integrity or the dealership. unfortunately i cant speak for others, but where i work we strive to satisfy our customers, that is our future business. if we rip them off today, where will they go tomorrow? there are a lot of jeep techs out there but if they are "new" to chrysler, they probably not familiar with the early jeeps. i began with them and am quite familiar with all their quirks. i do have to admit once in a while i can get stumped and it will take some extra diagnostics. remember, those of you who dont use us, when you go to the independent garages and you spend good money to not have your car fixed, you will eventually end up at the dealership. after all the expenses and the jeep is fixed, where was the savings? we see it time and time again where this happens and when the customer leaves he will be happy with the results. maybe not the total costs, but we have no control on what we dont touch.
i wasnt trying to start a big fiasco, just trying to vent.

[woody]

I've had mostly good experience with my local Jeep Dealer's parts manager & assistant. I don't buy much from them, but when I do call to check availability or go in, they remember me by name and that I have a bunch of 4x4 XJs. I've tried to finagle 'fleet' prices, but like I said, I dont buy much from them ($350+- for two CCV harnesses, two thermostats, two UCA bushings, a balancer pulley, and a lower hose in the past year) I think if they saw me every few weeks, I think deeper discounts would appear.

Sometimes the parts are less than aftermarket (not often, but...) This week I picked up a balancer pulley, thermostat & lower rad hose. They had to order the hose, and the manager said "I just get mine at the parts store downtown" I LOL and clued him about the wire coil thingy and how it prevents the hose from collapsing. In fact I have a brand new aftermarket hose on the trail-rig that needs replaced due to that...no 'savings' in doing the same job twice due to non-spec parts. FWIW the pulley was $13 less than AutoZone 'premium' brand.

I can't say much good or bad about their service department...other than that I can tell they don't want my business. No matter, since I was an industrial tech for a while & have long owned most of the hand tools I need to DIY. I've come to hate turning wrenches, but I also hate peeling off Ben Franklins for something I can do. There's also a 'trust' issue... Many repairs & upgrades I have performed on the Jeeps were 'new' to me. With some, I didn't exactly trust myself at first (R&P gear setup, engine swap for example) but I had difficulty finding a local shop I felt I could trust.

For 80% of the PM/ repair/upgrade work an XJ requires, a FSM and basic hand tools (and advice from the NAXJA faithful) is all an owner needs to get it done. I understand completely about money & time. If I had the income that allowed me to farm EVERYTHING out, I would, but I'd also be a picky SOB-much more so than of my own workmanship. I know I get what I pay for when I'm the monkey on the wrench.

[FordGuy]

I run a Ford Dealerships, and yes we make mistakes but...Dealers today are more honest then your local church!! Just watch the news, you all know the News guns for Auto Dealers, but funny how all the sting ops, hidden cameras, BBB complaints are all for the most part against Independents!!!
And no, it is not as lucrative as you may think. Most Dealers would make more money selling there property and putting there investment in a C.D:nono:

[SCW]

Do Ford guys look at the dates of posts too? In the past 3 years since someone posted to this thread, all dealership have been proven crooked by a congressional commitee (the most honest commitee in America).

[Goatman]

Yeah, how'd you find this old thread?

Anyway, it's nice to see another Ford dealership guy building an XJ and starting to hang out here. I bought my first XJ while I worked at the Jeep dealership as GSM, and now I've been at Ford for 12 years as used car manager. Hope to run into you out on the trail one day.

[DrMoab]

Yeah, how'd you find this old thread?

Anyway, it's nice to see another Ford dealership guy building an XJ and starting to hang out here. I bought my first XJ while I worked at the Jeep dealership as GSM, and now I've been at Ford for 12 years as used car manager. Hope to run into you out on the trail one day.
What you failed to mention Richard is that you are the most dis-honest sales guy there is. :D

^^^^^
was a joke...it was only a joke

[MudDawg]

Since this old thread got pulled back up.....when I need a OEM part for one of my Heeps....I call my local dealership.....they order it and call me when it comes in.....with no "you gotta pre-pay for the stuff" B.S.....great guys.

I don't know about the service department...NOBODY has worked on any of my junk for over 30 years except me...(OK so I don't do paint and body)..and I like it that way...

[DrMoab]

Since this old thread got pulled back up.....when I need a OEM part for one of my Heeps....I call my local dealership.....they order it and call me when it comes in.....with no "you gotta pre-pay for the stuff" B.S.....great guys.

I don't know about the service department...NOBODY has worked on any of my junk for over 30 years except me...(OK so I don't do paint and body)..and I like it that way...
It all depends on how well you know your parts guy. Our local dealer is a pre-pay type of place...unless they know you and then its all good.

[MudDawg]

So I have an edge....we installed the a/c systems in the dealership....and if there is a problem, they get top priority for repair.

[FordGuy]

Obviously it hits home with me, I run a Dealership. I cant speak for every state, but in California all you have to do is read, paper, TV, Bureau of Automotive Repair and its funny that you will rarely see a Dealership being mentioned. No its not cheap, but my equipment costs are crazy, my Techs go to school multiple weeks a year, get judged on customer satisfaction every day. My guys pay plans are based on Customer Satisfaction. Remember most Dealerships are family people just like you. I will have to say most of my unhappy customers wont listen, and have bad experiences everywhere they go.

[Stumpalump]

I took my truck to the dealership to have an oil leak I could not find fixed. I was in a temporarry apartment and it was winter. They changed the oil cooling lines and the broken moter mounts that caused the problem. They changed all the 4x4 fluids and transmission fluid. They replaced some front end parts and replaced a seal in the steering box. Aligned front end and changed glow plugs. 1600 bucks. I thought that was a bargan for all the work they did. I was in bind. I needed to get another load from Arkansas and I needed the truck right. They made it right and I was very happy with the service I got. The mechanic showed me all the parts and how much of a pita it was to do the oil lines and mounts on a diesel. Do you really think some local shop would have the parts quality and service staff of a good stealership? No. Nobody will touch my stuff except the dealer if I can't find the time in my own shop. Im a picky mofo and will pay for good parts and service any day as opposed to taking a chance with crappy china parts and a high school edjucated mechanic.

[Ray H]

a high school edjucated mechanic.
Do you think the dealership mechanics have an MBA in auto mechanics?
BTW its EDUCATED. ;)

[Darky]

Dealership prices are crazy high, but the techs that I work around are pretty good guys for the most part. There's one at the dealership I'm in who I've had work on my wife's Focus and my Jeep. His only complaint is the influx of UTI grads. He doesn't feel they're trained very well when they arrive. But the dealer is always sending people out for training on this and that and keeping them up to date on the latest stuff.

[Stumpalump]

Do you think the dealership mechanics have an MBA in auto mechanics?
BTW its EDUCATED. ;) No, but they see the same makes and problems day in and day out. They have parts on hand and know what the service bullitins have in them. It just the most efficient place to get a good job performed. Nobody needs an MBA to do anything but spell. Im a senior medical device engineer on a 1.6 average in high school and a 1.5 year electronics technition diploma. Bullshit and work ethic get you to the top a good edjucation only gets you a good start after you wasted 16 years of your life. I chose to have a blast those years and chose a work ethic when it counted. Seems like all I missed out on was a little spelling. Check out the mls listings in the town I live in today that I bought in with my crappy spelling:http://www.realestate.com/axx/applications/cob/asp/NSSearchResults.asp

[Dirt]

Do you think the dealership mechanics have an MBA in auto mechanics?
BTW its EDUCATED. ;)

Spoken like a true customer... Auto techs deal with pessimistic BS like this all day long. Not only that but, they also have to deal with getting screwed by warranty work, diagnosing phantom problems that don't exist (except in the customers mind) and, being looked down upon for being just a... 'greasy mechanic' with no education.

When in fact, as some here have stated, dealership techs are the most educated in their field. Most having at least a degree in Auto-diesel technology and others that have Associates degrees. All while going to constant dealership training, maintaining ASE certification levels and in some states, maintaining state certifications. The ASE and state certs are not always paid for by the dealerships. However, they are mandatory if you want to work at a reputable place.

The dealership will pay for specialty tools(manufacturer specific only), shop equipment, diagnostic scan tools, shop manuals, manufacturer computer software. As well as, some sort of broad generic online access to all makes and models shop manuals.

That doesn't even count the tens of thousands of dollars each tech has invested in his own tools and equipment.

I'd like to leave you with this message..... Take your patchouli stench back to your condo, pour you a glass of fine spirits, put on your smoking jacket.... and smoke a pole. If you ever get a chance to get your nose out of the air, we'll still be here...just some lousy ol' mokanix, ripping off the whole world, one car at a time.

[nick86]

Spoken like a true customer... Auto techs deal with pessimistic BS like this all day long. Not only that but, they also have to deal with getting screwed by warranty work, diagnosing phantom problems that don't exist (except in the customers mind) and, being looked down upon for being just a... 'greasy mechanic' with no education.

When in fact, as some here have stated, dealership techs are the most educated in their field. Most having at least a degree in Auto-diesel technology and others that have Associates degrees. All while going to constant dealership training, maintaining ASE certification levels and in some states, maintaining state certifications. The ASE and state certs are not always paid for by the dealerships. However, they are mandatory if you want to work at a reputable place.

The dealership will pay for specialty tools(manufacturer specific only), shop equipment, diagnostic scan tools, shop manuals, manufacturer computer software. As well as, some sort of broad generic online access to all makes and models shop manuals.

That doesn't even count the tens of thousands of dollars each tech has invested in his own tools and equipment.

I'd like to leave you with this message..... Take your patchouli stench back to your condo, pour you a glass of fine spirits, put on your smoking jacket.... and smoke a pole. If you ever get a chance to get your nose out of the air, we'll still be here...just some lousy ol' mokanix, ripping off the whole world, one car at a time.

Well put

[IntrepidXJ]

Seems like all I missed out on was a little spelling. Check out the mls listings in the town I live in today that I bought in with my crappy spelling:http://www.realestate.com/axx/applications/cob/asp/NSSearchResults.asp

Seems like you don't retain new information very well....I know you have been informed how to spell education properly, yet you still continue to spell it wrong. It's a mystery how you ever made it through school to receive this education you have.....

Your hot-linking skills suck, too :laugh2:

[FordGuy]

Part prices are very simple and have nothing to do with a vendor like Quadratech, or anyone else buying parts direct from a tier 1 supplier, Dealers do not have that option, Example, Explorer rear calipers, Currie buys Genuine Bosch Calipers From a Tier supplier and probably pays $8.00, if a Ford Dealer buys the same part from Ford we would pay 46.00. If you are going to compare and judge please know the facts before you assume you are getting ripped off! Plus when was charging Retail a crime.

[nick86]

Seems like you don't retain new information very well....I know you have been informed how to spell education properly, yet you still continue to spell it wrong. It's a mystery how you ever made it through school to receive this education you have.....

Your hot-linking skills suck, too :laugh2:
I think someone is bored & cranky cause they didn't go to winterfest,LOL

[IntrepidXJ]

I think someone is bored & cranky cause they didn't go to winterfest,LOL

certainly not bored and cranky.......getting ready to move over 1300 miles in 2 weeks is keeping me pretty busy :dunce:

[Ray H]

Spoken like a true customer... Auto techs deal with pessimistic BS like this all day long. Not only that but, they also have to deal with getting screwed by warranty work, diagnosing phantom problems that don't exist (except in the customers mind) and, being looked down upon for being just a... 'greasy mechanic' with no education.



Its true, I am a customer. Im also pessimistic but not just concerning auto mechanics, but doctors, lawyers, carpenters, dentists, etc. I dont discriminate based on education. I think there are incompetent people at all levels. There are also competent people at all levels. Im not the one who made the statement that auto mechanics working in shops other than dealerships were " high school edjucated mechanic". I simply said, sarcastically, that dealership mechanics dont generally have MBAs. Do you disagree with that?
As far as getting ripped off on warranty work. What???? Warranty work pays the same flat rate as any work does and an experienced mechanic that knows his stuff makes out like a bandit on flat rate pay. Sure, every once in awhile they run into a problem that takes longer than book time but at the weeks end, if they are any good, they come out ahead.

Just an FYI: Im not college educated, I went to a trade school and Im blue collar all the way. So for you to assume Im looking down on anyone because of their education or the fact they get dirty for a living is just dumb.

In my condo sipping fine spirits wearing my smoking jacket looking down my nose. Thats hilarious, thanks for the laugh. Believe me, you couldnt be further off the mark.

[Boatwrench]

Get a friggin life! :looser:

This post originated in 2004! Last summer Fordguy resurrected it after it laid dormant for three years...and again today 6 months after the last time.

And in that three years there has probably been a dozen dealership vs stealership threads....I am getting ready to :puke: these threads are so :spin3:

Back away from the :geek: and quit !!!1

What does this :bs: have to do with getting ready for the best party1: of 2008? That is less than Eight months away!

That is all.

:peace:

[Ray H]

Wow, its just conversation between friends, its not a life, its just a way of wasting a cold, windy, gloomy Saturday that Im stuck at home.
guess I'll go back to doing nothing for the next 8 months.:)

Welcome into the :spin3: thread, you are one of us now.

[FordGuy]

I did not resurrect it, It came up when I clicked the new posts, Just replied!
Never searched it out, but will reply. Calm down.:doh:

[nick86]

Who gives a sheet how old the thread is. Maybe we are bored and need stimulation.

[Ray H]

I did not resurrect it, It came up when I clicked the new posts, Just replied!
Never searched it out, but will reply. Calm down.:doh:

Shame on you.
BTW: I spent about 3 years stationed just outside of San Clemente. Its a great little town, or at least it was 20 years ago.

[FordGuy]

Shame on you.
BTW: I spent about 3 years stationed just outside of San Clemente. Its a great little town, or at least it was 20 years ago. Camp Pendleton ? Love the base and all the Marines, I always hook them up at the Dealership. I have live in San Clemente for 14 years and do love it!

[Ray H]

Camp Pendleton ? Love the base and all the Marines, I always hook them up at the Dealership. I have live in San Clemente for 14 years and do love it!
Yes, I was stationed at the very north end of Cap Pen. at a little place called Camp Telega, just outside of San Clemente.
Im glad you like the Marines being there. When I was there, it seemed that the majority of the locals just tolerated us.

[FordGuy]

I got to tell you, We love the marines, San Clemente just made a bitchin park just in honor of the Marine Corps. Anybody here that just tolerates the people who allow me my freedom, F--k everyone of them.

[Ray H]

I got to tell you, We love the marines, San Clemente just made a bitchin park just in honor of the Marine Corps. Anybody here that just tolerates the people who allow me my freedom, F--k everyone of them.

I appreciate that. In all fairness, Marines sometimes arent the most gracious guests.
I wish I had taken better advantage of some of the places Ive been. San Clemente is one of those places. It always just seemed to be a fun and clean place to be.

[FordGuy]

I appreciate that. In all fairness, Marines sometimes aren't the most gracious guests.
I wish I had taken better advantage of some of the places Ive been. San Clemente is one of those places. It always just seemed to be a fun and clean place to be. You are right, but It is one group you do not stereo type. Plus if you are willing to give your life for me, I can put up with a little crap.

[Dirt]

Warranty work pays the same flat rate as any work does

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Or, I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say.

[FordGuy]

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Or, I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say. What he is saying is that if a Tech is paid $25.00 per hour flat rate(commission) His rate does not change whether he is doing Warranty work or Customer pay. The only thing that is different is that Warranty Flat Rate times are less normally.

[DrMoab]

Camp Pendleton ? Love the base and all the Marines, I always hook them up at the Dealership. I have live in San Clemente for 14 years and do love it!
When I was hauling cars I had to pick up someones truck there. Got my auto transporter stuck and got pulled out by a tank :D

Not your normal tow job but it was cool anyway.

[Ray H]

This statement couldn't be further from the truth. Or, I'm completely misunderstanding what you're trying to say.


Years ago I worked at a dealer as a warranty manager so I dealt directly with warranty repairs. Granted, that was some 17 years ago and it wasnt for a Jeep dealer, it was a Mazda, Audi, Porsche dealer. Every repair that was done had a flat rate time that it SHOULD take to do it. It was the same flat rate for warranty work as it was for non warranty work. Recalls used a different rate so they didnt pay well at all. Many times the techs didnt even know if it was a warranty repair or not, they got payed the same either way. Whether a repair was covered by warranty was usually between the service writer and myself based on vehicle age, mileage and whether or not it had an extended warranty. Sometimes, especially with porsche, we would good will cover it under warranty. Lots of Porsches (fair weather cars) go over the age limit for the warranty before getting anywhere near the mileage limit. Porsche covered just about anything. Audi was just the opposite.
Anyway, point being, the techs had nothing to do with whether it was a warranty repair and many times, they didnt even know, and they didnt care because it payed the same to them.
Maybe its changed now or maybe different manufacturers do it differently. If so, I stand corrected, but this is my experience.

[Ray H]

When I was hauling cars I had to pick up someones truck there. Got my auto transporter stuck and got pulled out by a tank :D

Not your normal tow job but it was cool anyway.
PICS ???

[DrMoab]

PICS ???
You ever try and get a camera on a Military base???

[1985xjlaredo]

Um the dealer has money to gain by ripping you off. Also the mechanic is probably getting paid book hours so if he can get a 6 hour book job done in 4 real hours by cutting corners and not doing all the work he makes more. Alot of the parts that dealers are getting for older cars come from your local auto parts store they just mark up the price 10 times. Jeep doesn't even make half the parts it used to for XJ's or have the original sources for them. They are what they are STEALERSHIPS

[FordGuy]

That is the most ignorant statement I have read in a long time.

[Dirt]

17 years ago

Hi! I'm 2008. Things have changed.

[Ray H]

Hi! I'm 2008. Things have changed.


Please at least quote me in context and dont make out like I didnt already acknowledge that I know my info is old.
I said:
"Granted, that was some 17 years ago"
"Maybe its changed now or maybe different manufacturers do it differently. If so, I stand corrected, but this is my experience"

[Darky]

PICS ???
different, but here's a tram getting pulled out by an AAV right behind on my unit on Pendleton...I was pulled by the same AAV shortly thereafter
Apparently cardomain isn't the best for posting images...who'da thunk it? (http://www.cardomain.com/member_pages/show_image.pl?bg=330099&image=http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/3/web/711000-711999/711600_8_full.jpg)

[EMSJEEP]

Back before I knew anything about anything that went on with my Jeep (about 1000 miles into it, after buying a 33,000mile lease) my front brakes went. The pads must have been ready to go when it came off the lot, not good, but fine, whatever. I took it back with my mom to get it looked at after some vibration in the pedal. They look at it and tell me I need new brakes up fron, rotors, pads, the works. Fine, ok I say, if it needs to be fixed it needs to be fixed. $700 later I leave the dealership. 1000 miles down the road, same problem, vibration in the brake pedal. I go to the goodyear shop around the corner. They pull the rotors and pads off. Apparently for $700 the dealership had machined the warped rotors, and forgotten to replace the pads which were now nothing but metal. I wanted to bash their heads in with my old rotors. Also, same place had me come in at 10AM finished the car at 11:30 (alarm system issue) and then forgot about me until after lunch ~1PM...then tried to charge me an extra $250 because they made remotes for the factory keyless system not the alarm system that they sold it to me with...
Alternatively, I recently made a trip to another dealership for some rear brake issues that I could not look at or fix because I'm at school. New shoes, adjustment, machined rotors, 1 brake cylinder and a few hours later and the bill is $300, the most expensive part being the ~$130 cylinder. And they decided to throw in a 10% discount because it took 4 hours...but hey whatever at least they were nice and did the job right. Its hit or miss, but they certainly take advantage if they can, and if you get the wrong person. While I'm here I might as well ask, the Volvo dealership told my gf's mother that when a headlight blows they have to replace both because the blown one causes the good one to draw more power and consequently causes damage, any truth to that?

[Darky]

different, but here's a tram getting pulled out by an AAV right behind on my unit on Pendleton...I was pulled by the same AAV shortly thereafter
http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii269/darkXJ/DSCF0246.jpg
Just realized I quoted myself because I apparently missed the deadline for editing... d'oh!! :doh: