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Details for E350 master cyl install?

What Rd

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Athens, IL
I've decided to swap an E350 master cylinder into my 93. I'm looking for any words of wisdom on any little details I need to know before getting into it.

VintageSpeed gave me some info on opeing up the boltholes to get them aligned, but I'm wondering about a couple of other points. Will the hard line fittings thread on or need to be changed, and if so to what? What about the hard lines themselves - will they need to be bent or replaced or what?

Any other advice, tips or tricks?

TIA.
 
I just did mine on an 89, do yourself a favor and take the 2 lines that go from your current master to that block below it off and take them and the master with you to an autoparts store with a selection of fittings to match up the conversion sizes,I went back and forth for fittings until I had them pull a master E350 off the shelf so I could match them up. You will also have to grind a little off the ends of the ears to fit into the booster opening
 
just some extra info, my '03 E250 has rear disc brakes.
 
2offroad said:
just some extra info, my '03 E250 has rear disc brakes.
that's why you use the 86 E350 MC.. it had drums out back..
 
there have been two good write ups on the Jeep forum of the PBB on the E350 swap. Yes you will need new fittings, Pep Boys had them for me. You need the larger fitting that still uses the smaller line. They have the little stubby adaptor lines with two different fittings on each end. I took my MC in with me and they let me go behind the counter and figure out which ones to get. FWIW, I used a 68 vette MC, which I am still not sure will work. I seem to be hitting the bottom of the stroke before I get all the braking that I want. I might still have some air in the system somewhere, so my jury is still out. I am using 1ton Ford calipers in the front and 3/4 ton chevy calipers in the rear.

Good luck
 
2offroad said:
just some extra info, my '03 E250 has rear disc brakes.

So if you run 4-wheel discs is the newer E250 MC a better choice?
 
SeanP said:
there have been two good write ups on the Jeep forum of the PBB on the E350 swap.

Anyone have a link for these?

I've converted my D44 to discs (TSM), so I'm wondering the same thing as basalt about which MC is the better choice?
 
Vintagespeed is running disk brakes all around also, I beleive he removed the proportioning block and it works great, I am running front disks and rear drums so I left mine in
 
FWIW

96 XJ Booster/master swap
Removed prop valve
8.8 w/discs

High Pedal, great feel, and stops better than my wife's 99 Stratus w/ 4wheel discs
 
That's what I'm thinking. I'm putting discs on my Chryco 8.25. You don't need a new MC for 4 wheel discs. Remove the prop. valve and your fluid will be split 50/50.

GI-John said:
FWIW

96 XJ Booster/master swap
Removed prop valve
8.8 w/discs

High Pedal, great feel, and stops better than my wife's 99 Stratus w/ 4wheel discs
 
Nihil said:
That's what I'm thinking. I'm putting discs on my Chryco 8.25. You don't need a new MC for 4 wheel discs. Remove the prop. valve and your fluid will be split 50/50.

You're assuming stock calipers up front. Most of the people in this thread have upgraded their front axles and brakes. I'm currently trying to figure out which MC to use myself. Running 1/2 ton Chevy calipers up front and monte carlo calipers out back(caddy calipers w/o the e-brake). The dodge 3500 MC seems to be the best solution, but is also the most expensive at $105(commercial cost). The later model 'vettes(78-82) are another alternative, as are the 86 E-350's. One of the big things that I think everyone is overlooking when comparing setups is whether they are using the older single diaphram booster or the newer dual diaphram booster. I have an E-350 MC and an '80 'Vette MC sitting in the truck right now, I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can dig into them. I'm gonna try the 'vette first and see if it works. I've been told there are vacuum issues with this MC and you will need to find a way to seal the MC to the booster. I've been told the same problem exists with the E-350. It appears the Dodge unit doesn't have this problem, but once again, at $15 a pop for the vette and E-350 MCs, it can't hurt to experiment. If I figure anything out, I'll be sure to post back.

Ary
 
Safari Ary said:
You're assuming stock calipers up front. Most of the people in this thread have upgraded their front axles and brakes. I'm currently trying to figure out which MC to use myself. Running 1/2 ton Chevy calipers up front and monte carlo calipers out back(caddy calipers w/o the e-brake). The dodge 3500 MC seems to be the best solution, but is also the most expensive at $105(commercial cost). The later model 'vettes(78-82) are another alternative, as are the 86 E-350's. One of the big things that I think everyone is overlooking when comparing setups is whether they are using the older single diaphram booster or the newer dual diaphram booster. I have an E-350 MC and an '80 'Vette MC sitting in the truck right now, I'm waiting for the rain to stop so I can dig into them. I'm gonna try the 'vette first and see if it works. I've been told there are vacuum issues with this MC and you will need to find a way to seal the MC to the booster. I've been told the same problem exists with the E-350. It appears the Dodge unit doesn't have this problem, but once again, at $15 a pop for the vette and E-350 MCs, it can't hurt to experiment. If I figure anything out, I'll be sure to post back.

Ary

Let me know when you find out. I have a 96 SE model and the brakes suck. How can you tell between the dual and single diaphragm? I have seen some with a big cap that covers the whole m/c. But mine has a small cap and a small area to put fluid. I have the stock front but a D44 with Explorer discs on it. I have removed the rubber plunger in the prop valve and the brakes still suck. I basically have to stand on the brakes if somebody suddenly stops in front of me. I have had some close calls recently. BTW- this is with 4.88's and 35's. Thanks.

-Mike
 
Big Jeep 101 said:
Let me know when you find out. I have a 96 SE model and the brakes suck. How can you tell between the dual and single diaphragm? I have seen some with a big cap that covers the whole m/c. But mine has a small cap and a small area to put fluid. I have the stock front but a D44 with Explorer discs on it. I have removed the rubber plunger in the prop valve and the brakes still suck. I basically have to stand on the brakes if somebody suddenly stops in front of me. I have had some close calls recently. BTW- this is with 4.88's and 35's. Thanks.

-Mike

Here is a good write up on what you are asking.

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/ARbrakeBoosterUpgrade/BrakeBoosterUpgrade.htm

BRAKE02.jpg


Single on the left and double on the right. ( post 95 )
 
Gojeep said:
Here is a good write up on what you are asking.

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/ARbrakeBoosterUpgrade/BrakeBoosterUpgrade.htm

BRAKE02.jpg


Single on the left and double on the right. ( post 95 )

Thanks, I am trying to figure out why the E350 m/c won't work on the 96 and later boosters. Is it because the added length of the later boosters? I am hearing what sounds like a vacuum noise when the car sits at idle, but it goes away as the brake pedal gets pushed to the floor. Haven't really looked into it but has anyone else heard of this before? Thanks.

-Mike
 
Vacuum leaks are really easy to find. Just run your finger all around the area where the MC mates to the booster and you will hear a difference in sound when you pass a vacuum leak. I used some gasket making material (like you would use to seal an intake or TB) and RTV and I sealed mine well. Ary and I both discovered a small little hole in the vette MC's that needs to be sealed. I guess the vette booster needed a little vacuum leak to work right.

As far as I am concerned, just about any MC can be made to work with the XJ's booster as long as the mounting holes are close to the stud pattern. I drilled my mounting holes to a bigger diameter and made a new push rod from 1/4 20 bolt and jam nut.

SeanP
 
My reaon for choosing the E350 MC is for the larger bore relative to the stock 93 XJ (single diaphragm booster). If I'm understanding the physics right, this will give a firmer feel at the pedal and reduce the amount of travel needed to get full braking. This is exactly what I need. My stock setup with rear discs added has a very light (not spongy and well bled) pedal, that goes a loooong way before gettign full braking (which even then is unimpressive, to be generous).
So is the 86 E350 the right year for me?
 
What Rd (f.k.a. ArmStrong) said:
My reaon for choosing the E350 MC is for the larger bore relative to the stock 93 XJ (single diaphragm booster). If I'm understanding the physics right, this will give a firmer feel at the pedal and reduce the amount of travel needed to get full braking. This is exactly what I need. My stock setup with rear discs added has a very light (not spongy and well bled) pedal, that goes a loooong way before gettign full braking (which even then is unimpressive, to be generous).
So is the 86 E350 the right year for me?

Yes you have that right. The bigger the bore the firmer the pedal and the less it travels.
 
For XJ, The 84-86 E350 Van MC is a 1-1/8" bore with 3/8-24 and 7/16-20 ports on the right side. the A1 Cardone number is 10-2008,
cost about $18 with a core or $28 without. Need the montign holes drilled out to 9/16in and the sides grinded down,
but bolts right up to the 88XJ booster. Edelmann part #258540 ($3.19) and Edelmann part #258430 ($2.99)

Edelmann #258540, Everco #805D, Weatherhead #7917
Female Inverted Flare Seat 5/16", Male Inverted Flare Tube 1/4"

Edelmann #258430, Everco #0158, Weatherhead #7828,
Female Inverted Flare Seat 1/4", ale Inverted Flare Tube 3/16"


Im running 1ton disk brakes, and adding rear 1ton disk brakes. This MC would give you TOO stiff a pedal for a stock brake system. IMO.
 
:worship: Now THAT's an answer! :worship:

Thanx a ton, guys.
Better braking ahead.
 
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