How important are sway bars?

[dandecicco]

Back again!
Question: On an XJ, how important is it to keep the sway bars connected while on pavement? MY CJ never has the sway bars attached and I didn't notice a difference. So when I build up my XJ, do I really need to keep the bars connected while driving down the road (hince disconnects) or do the sway bars actually keep the XJ on the road and keep that boat feeling down?

Just a thought.
Thanks, Dan

[IDF_Johnny]

on my 98 I dont miss the rear at all. never drove this one with the front disconected on the road. however had a friend with an older 2 door, grand springs in the front, small blocks in the rear and no swaybars at all. It was a little creepy on the road. with him sitting in the passenger seat(450lbs) left hand turns on three wheels where common!

[jgl4wdccherokee]

Yeah I am running a Rustys 4.5 and without just the rear I do not notice to much difference, but when the front is undone HOLD ON!

[Ramsey]

i made some home made disconnects up front and usually go a couple weeks before i get back around to connecting them. i have a 99 w/3" lift. i do have the rear on still so that might be a factor. i dont miss the front sway bar, i cant quite corner like i did(actually i can, its just "more fun") just disconnect and drive it around and if you feel you need it, get some quicks or make your on with hitch pins and a drill and some washers

[FELIX]

I run w/out them. I have the rear removed, & the front disco'd. I keept the front, just ncase I get in a spot that I can't get the front jacked up, I can re attach the sway bar. I feel it's a softer ride w/out them. I'm at 5- 5 1/2" RE Super Flex

Rob

[dandecicco]

Thanks guys. Just a thought I had as I woun't pick up the XJ till Thursday. Thanks for the info.
DAn

[MudDawg]

I saw this thread and felt it important to share a personal experience....my rig is lifted 6" with 12.5 x 33's...I ran for quite some time with the front bar disconnected because the ride was a LOT smoother and I thought the body roll was ok...and was fine for the way I drive.....one day some Whacko in an Accord pulled out in front of me and I had to make an emergency lane change at about 45 MPH...Why my rig didn't roll over is a mystery..or a miracle...Now I keep mine connected any time I'm on the road. Just had to share that.

[dandecicco]

That inself will have me looking for disconnects. thanks (my 10 month old might be in it and heck no! I want saftey)
Dan

[Jes]

I'm running the RE ZJ 4.5" coils and brand new DoeschTech 4000s and it is scarry without the front anti roll bar connected.
Some say you can live without it if you drive carefully but I don't think you can make the people in other vehicles around you drive carefully. ;)

Jes

[Safari Ary]

I'm running the RE ZJ 4.5" coils and brand new DoeschTech 4000s and it is scarry without the front anti roll bar connected.
Some say you can live without it if you drive carefully but I don't think you can make the people in other vehicles around you drive carefully. ;)

Jes

Interesting. I'm running the same coils but with Bilstein 14" travel 5100s with(I believe) 255/70 valving and some very stiff rear springs(Rusty's 4.5" springs with an AAL thrown in) and I'm VERY comfortable with the way it handles. I've driven my rig at every height I've had it with and without the front swaybar and this is the first time I've been comfortable with it at highway speeds. I've been stock, 3", 6.5", 4.5", and now about 7.5" and oddly enough it's more stable now than any of the other heights w/o the swaybar. One thing that may contribute to that is my new axle is now about 2" wider than the stock axle and I went from 4.5" of BS with 33x10.50s to 3.75" of BS with 35x12.50s. All in all I'm comfortable running without a swaybar.

Jes, I'd be curious to know what rear springs you're running and what the valving is on those shocks.

Ary

[BrettM]

mine is great with no swaybars at all! but i have leafs up front, so you can just ignore that.

take the rear swaybar off, it hardly does anything and some XJs came from the factory without one (so I'm told). Keep the front one connected on the road. It is more dangerous without it if you have to make a sudden evasive maneuver. If you got in a wreck, and even if the swaybar wouldn't have helped, I'm sure the police and insurance would just be thrilled to see that you have your swaybar disconnected :O

[Jes]

No idea what the valving is on the shocks but it is so much better than the blown DT3000s with RE 4.5" XJ coils I had on there. I still need to replace the poly anti roll bar bushings as they make a big difference and mine are worn out.
In the rear I'm running RE 3.5" pacs with 3/4" blocks, 1.25" shackles, and new DT3000s. The rear is definately softer than the front, both in damping and spring rate.
No setup that I've ever had was I comfortable running with out the anti roll bar.

Jes

[Eagle]

take the rear swaybar off, it hardly does anything and some XJs came from the factory without one (so I'm told).
The Up Country suspension does not have a rear sway bar. However -- it compensates by having a higher spring rate. I have a 2000 with Up Country, and I will be taking the rear sway bar off a wrecked XJ and installing it on the 2000. I have also gotten the larger front sway bar from an early XJ Wagoneer and I will be replacing the stock sway bar on the 2000 with the larger one.

Having survived two highway "incidents" at speed, IMHO you cannot possibly have too much sway bar when driving on the street. Keep the sway bars and use disconnects if you need to flex off-road.

[Safari Ary]

Eagle, I used to firmly believe in swaybars after having to perform an evasive maneuver on the highway w/o one. However, I believe that if the spring/shocks and overall setup are stiff enough, you can go without them. I've always hated my swabar, but viewed it as a necessary evil. It always makes the ride harsher and bounces the Jeep around like crazy when entering ramped up parking lots and the like. Now the Jeep is smooth. Like I said though, I did significantly stiffen the suspension, as well as widen it and add significant mass to the unsprung weight helping to keep the COG lower. As I drive the Jeep more at speed I may change my mind about this, since the Jeep has only been driveable with this setup for 3 days. So these are just my initial impressions.

Ary

[Drunk tank]

Personally I dont run sway bars currently. I'm sitting at 8" with 35's... so I'm kinda up there. It has definatly changed my driving habits... now I'm alot safer all together. Havnt gotten a speeding ticket in a looong time. But I'm considering putting my front bar back on... just cause really. I'm fine with no away bar with just myself in the XJ, but once I get a load of peeps in there.... corners become mighty scary. :scared:

[BrettM]

Eagle, I used to firmly believe in swaybars after having to perform an evasive maneuver on the highway w/o one. However, I believe that if the spring/shocks and overall setup are stiff enough, you can go without them. I've always hated my swabar, but viewed it as a necessary evil. It always makes the ride harsher and bounces the Jeep around like crazy when entering ramped up parking lots and the like. Now the Jeep is smooth. Like I said though, I did significantly stiffen the suspension, as well as widen it and add significant mass to the unsprung weight helping to keep the COG lower. As I drive the Jeep more at speed I may change my mind about this, since the Jeep has only been driveable with this setup for 3 days. So these are just my initial impressions.

Ary
probably also a result of your roll-axis. I'm assuming your trackbar (panhard) is raised over the axle, this raises the roll-axis as well.

[basalt51]

I've been running w/o the swaybar since I put the new front axle in. It's mounts had been cutoff and I'm too lazy to have new ones welded on since I can't weld. I would never purposely remove the swaybars. I will eventually have the mounts put on. The body roll is totally managable but it is a little scary. I've resolved to NOT swerve in an emergeny unless absolutely necessary.

[Safari Ary]

probably also a result of your roll-axis. I'm assuming your trackbar (panhard) is raised over the axle, this raises the roll-axis as well.

Do what? Sad to say, but I pretty much winged it on suspension design when I put the front together. Just went based off of everyone else's design. The trackbar is located about 7" above the axle tube, parrallel with the draglink that connects to a hy-steer arm on the passenger side. How does this affect stability though? I'm more stable now than I was stock with up-country springs and no swaybars. I don't know why, but I am :confused:

[Safari Ary]

I've resolved to NOT swerve in an emergeny unless absolutely necessary.

Sorry man, but I gotta call BS on that. I've never been in an emergency situation where I had time to think, "nah, I'm not gonna panic at all, I'm just gonna drive straight through this incident." Maybe your reaction times are better and your ability to stay come and resolved in an emergency are better than mine. But when shit happens, instinct takes over. Just my .02

Ary

[BrettM]

with a trackbar (panhard) the roll-axis is through the middle of the bar (not exactly but close enough). the middle of your panhard is several inches higher than if it went all the way down to the axle tube, so your roll-axis is several inches higher. Your roll-axis is the line that the body rolls around. I can't think of how to explain it, but when you raise it you gain stability because the body is rolling around a point 2ft from the ground instead of a point 1ft from the ground.

[sidriptide]

i have to admit to not having reinstalled the front swaybar after the lift on my 87.... although its a lot more stable than i had expected it to be i know its not there and keep that in mind... sounds ignorant dont it?? i will put it back on soon.. both XJs have no rear swaybar anymore... hard to tell if it was a noticable change because it was being lifted at the same time.. better safe than sorry.... keep em if you do any street driving....

mike

[basalt51]

Sorry man, but I gotta call BS on that. I've never been in an emergency situation where I had time to think, "nah, I'm not gonna panic at all, I'm just gonna drive straight through this incident." Maybe your reaction times are better and your ability to stay come and resolved in an emergency are better than mine. But when shit happens, instinct takes over. Just my .02

Ary

Call BS all you want. I've done it before and I could do it again. Some peoples instincts are better than others :P

[Nay]

Eagle, I used to firmly believe in swaybars after having to perform an evasive maneuver on the highway w/o one. However, I believe that if the spring/shocks and overall setup are stiff enough, you can go without them. I've always hated my swabar, but viewed it as a necessary evil. It always makes the ride harsher and bounces the Jeep around like crazy when entering ramped up parking lots and the like. Now the Jeep is smooth. Like I said though, I did significantly stiffen the suspension, as well as widen it and add significant mass to the unsprung weight helping to keep the COG lower. As I drive the Jeep more at speed I may change my mind about this, since the Jeep has only been driveable with this setup for 3 days. So these are just my initial impressions.

Ary

Hah! Do a search. This sounds exactly like me. I have Bilsteins as well, along with very stiff rear springs and the stiffer 7.5" RE coils. My trackbar is raised several inches above the axle to go with D44 clearance steering. My front swaybar allows more lean than the suspension, plain and simple. I think my XJ at 8" of lift has less lean than my minivan. No swaybars, and I can run the twisties without white knuckles, even when my spare is on the roof rack.

I say this every time this post comes up: you cannot make generic claims about swaybars for highly customized suspensions. For out of the box lifts, like the 3" stuff, keep it connected. My XJ with 2" OME was downright frightening without the front swaybar.

But at 8" the swaybar was just awful. It counteracted postive suspension motion in many situations, e.g., taking a bump at an angle and causing massive snapping from side to side, and never did anything noticeable to mitigate negative suspension motions, e.g., limiting excessive lean, something my suspension does not have. Why anybody would engineer this into a suspension is beyond me...simply assuming that you'll somehow have better emergency handling based on predictable understeer...and assuming that predictable understeer is impossible without the swaybar.

These things are not simply slap on cures for every situation. I am not going to tell anybody to take off a swaybar. You need to assess this for yourself. Why you would remove a swaybar when your rig clearly handles better with one is beyond me, since discos are high quality and simple these days. Why you would run one when it exhibits almost entirely negative characteristics is also beyond me. YMMV.

Nay

[Nightside21]

Feel free to add to or correct me if I'm wrong.

If you have lifted your rig and are keeping your swaybar, I would suggest getting longer linkages between the axle and the bar. I remember reading that the swaybar will work best when the ends are perpendicular to the linkages. It makes sense physically. If the ends aren't perpendicular, then some of the push/pull force from the axle will push in towards the center of the bar, instead of just twisting it.

Also remember to do this to the rear one as well if you are going to keep it. Otherwise you're likely to feel the bumps are a little harsher, especially from high speed vibrations

[Nay]

Feel free to add to or correct me if I'm wrong.

If you have lifted your rig and are keeping your swaybar, I would suggest getting longer linkages between the axle and the bar. I remember reading that the swaybar will work best when the ends are perpendicular to the linkages. It makes sense physically. If the ends aren't perpendicular, then some of the push/pull force from the axle will push in towards the center of the bar, instead of just twisting it.

Also remember to do this to the rear one as well if you are going to keep it. Otherwise you're likely to feel the bumps are a little harsher, especially from high speed vibrations

Yes, your endlinks should keep the swaybar "arms" horizontal. The good setups are adjustable within a range, for example the JKS Gen II discos for a 6" lift may be adjustable via a threaded rod for anything from 6" to 10" of lift.

My previous comments apply to a properly set-up swaybar (horizontal "arms").

Nay

[Big Red]

Personally I dont run sway bars currently. I'm sitting at 8" with 35's... so I'm kinda up there. It has definatly changed my driving habits... now I'm alot safer all together. Havnt gotten a speeding ticket in a looong time. But I'm considering putting my front bar back on... just cause really. I'm fine with no away bar with just myself in the XJ, but once I get a load of peeps in there.... corners become mighty scary. :scared:

Yeah, I have 8" with 35" mtrs and have no sway bars and am used to running like this. It does take some getting used to though. My sway bar link broke off the axle, but now since I haved swapped out that axle for another dana 30 with an arb, I haven't hooked it up. I just use this Jeep for off-road, so it's not my dd. If it was my dd, I'd probably put the sway bar back on it. Otherwise I just drive carefully. I've gotten it up to 80 mph on the highway in straightaways and taken curves at 60 with no problems. Quick adj in steering could be a problem though.
Troy

[Adam Duncan]

I have 8" and 36's and I dont run either front or rear sway bars, they are both fully off my XJ. But, keep in mind both my front and rear springs are stiff. I really didnt notice AT ALL when the sway bar was connected or not, so, I just took it fully off, which is really convenient at the trail! You will just have to see for yourself if your ride is safe without them, and make the discision.