Coil Conversion

[Speed_racer]

I just scored an 88 ford tempo w/33k original miles on it for $600, my 2 roommates and I all pitched in so we'd each have a beater in case the vehicles we drive are down. A week before that, I got my first bike, a GSX-R 750

SO now the quest to lift the XJ and make it my DD ends. So I'm looking to go pretty extreme.

I already have Rustys long arms, and 10" coils, and an extended driveshaft for the front.

But I'm HIGHLY considering doing a Coilover conversion in the rear...

YES! I used the search function!

But i figure you guys could use this thread to post links to the kits you know about, and then the people with experience with the kits can give their side of the story.

You guys can save the bullsh1t flaming for the den... id actually like to get help on this one... tia - Sp33d

[Nay]

I wouldn't use the term coil conversion for this. You are most likely talking triangulated four-link, which of course will use coil springs.

From my research, the bulk of the four-link owners here built their own, using Excel-CAD (or other tool) to address instant center, anti-squat, roll axis, and all those fun things. This may not be an "out of the box" solution if you really want to perfect it. I have the Excel spreadsheet that came off of PBB that lets you enter your basic figures for the links and spits out a diagram showing IC/AS/RA, etc. Very useful. Hit me with an email address privately and I'll send it to you.

Having said that, I've seen D&C's four-link on the trail engineered for about an 8-9" lift. It climbs like crazy, and I'd say that D&C got the basics done right for you (IC & AS), although I'd add a center limiting strap personally. I think Clayton is coming out with a kit also, but D&C's probably has more miles under it (if Clayton's has any at all yet). Plus Damian is a good guy and deserves your hard earned cash.

Ask if anybody has solved the roll axis issue for a pure "under the frame" four-link setup. I did, and the only real response I received was "leaf springs". If you deal with a lot of off camber ledge stuff like Moab having a tippy setup may be undesirable and may change your definition of why your suspension is "extreme" :D.

Can't comment on Rock Krawler's 4-link, but it seems like people either love 'em or hate 'em.

In any case, these things are expensive as kits, but the parts for brackets and links aren't all that bad if you can do it yourself. If I were doing this I'd go with D&C...but then they are only about 5 miles from my house and there is nothing more valuable than a local fab shop when you need to tweak your junk and don't have the time or skills to do it yourself.

Nay

[BrettM]

I don't know of any currently available "kits" and if you really are looking to go extreme, I don't think any "kit" would be right for you.

Your "kit" should consist of a good MIG, a sawzall, a bunch of thick DOM, and the most important part: hours and hours and then more hours of research.

start here:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168577
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204893
http://www.xjdb.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=search.php&searchstring=4+link
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122231
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117199
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147226

[BrettM]

I think the question also needs to be asked: What are the shortcomings of leafs that you have encountered?

[Speed_racer]

I think the question also needs to be asked: What are the shortcomings of leafs that you have encountered?


Well, thru much research I've never found a leaf pack that sits 8" or higher that can actually flex worth a damn.

Bigoffroad makes quality stuff, but when I saw them in action, they didn't flex well at all.

My XJ used to have RE 3.5" Superflex leaf springs, and those things amazed me at how well they performed.

My goal is to go to around 10" but still be able to, comparatively, have the "same" amount of flex as before.

Whats the D&C website?

[BrettM]

I would recommend custom leafs (Alcan, Deaver, etc) and/or possibly moving the spring hangars down a few inches so you can have a flatter spring with a big lift. A 4 link is a major task, and an expensive one especially with coilovers.

for instance, 63" Chevy springs under the "frame" rails (MJ springs would work great too):

http://www.xjdb.com/albums/xjs/xj0679.jpg
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/xjs/xj0444.jpg

[Speed_racer]

Wow, I definitely like that idea.. a flatter spring = more flex and better ride...

Cant say that Ive seen too many people running their shackles like that, but I defnitely like it.

So about what price am I looking at to get a good 10" lift that will actually flex? Meaning.. ALcan springs, or the like.

And who do you recommend I contact? Websites?

[BrettM]

I'm cheap, so I would get something with a fairly long leaf (57" MJ, 63" Chevy, 56" Chevy, etc) from a Junkyard and mix and match leafs to come up with a pack I like. I personally would inboard the leaves, you lose some stablility, but gain some flex. Or you could box the hangars and build new hangars coming down from those kinda like CRASH's:
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/carnage/DCP00903.jpg

I have an MJ, and with the stock packs SOA with an extra leaf or two and no overload, it flexes GREAT at 7-8" of lift. Pick some springs that are nice and long, use lot's of thin leafs, then make your mounting points to fit the springs. MUCH less work than a 4-link, and almost as effective

[Speed_racer]

Alright man, I really appreciate you actually helping and not flaming like the jackass who gave me a "jackass" reputation point b/c of this thread.

YOu know, you can only research so much w/out retention, and sometimes it really helps to bounce ideas back n forth.

All I know is,w/e I do.. I'd like to do it relatively soon,so thx again man!!

[BrettM]

Alright man, I really appreciate you actually helping and not flaming like the jackass who gave me a "jackass" reputation point b/c of this thread.

YOu know, you can only research so much w/out retention, and sometimes it really helps to bounce ideas back n forth.

All I know is,w/e I do.. I'd like to do it relatively soon,so thx again man!!
a 4 link is nothing to rush, especially if you've never done any link suspension building or research. leafs are simple, cheap, easy, quick, etc... so much so that I put them up front and it works just dandy
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/upload/P1010044.jpg

[Nay]

You know, guys are running some pretty extreme stuff with the BIGOffroad leafs....but the idea of running flatter leafs is relatively simple and obviously effective if you need to balance out a long travel suspension. One thing missing from this discussion is the use of a moderate sized block to flatten the leafs even more, along with a traction bar.

Lots of options before diving into a four-link, although only the four-link has the bling-bling factor these days :D.

Nay

[Speed_racer]

Well, you guys did it, you talked me into staying w/leafs and just finding a way to get some nice flat leaves that flex like mad!

Now I just need to do more research and find out what length leaves / shackle / angle of shackle ill need for 10"

[GSequoia]

Get a nice 20" shackle.

[Speed_racer]

theres always somebody...

[35xj]

Why do you need 10" of lift? What size tires are you running?

[Speed_racer]

Have 37's sitting here at the house.

And i Just really like the look/performance of that size.

[BrettM]

Have 37's sitting here at the house.

And i Just really like the look/performance of that size.


aha! the truth comes out ;) what axles you runnin?

[Speed_racer]

aha! the truth comes out ;) what axles you runnin?


8.8 ( i know i know..but couldnt beat the deal) and will have the 44 bolted up soon for the front.

Front stronger than the rear, you say? hehe

Luckily my buddy is pulling the 9" axle out of the rear of his XJ soon, with 4.88's already and a detroit.. sill be set soon!!

[BrettM]

stock shafts in both? probably about equal strength, maybe a little stronger on the 8.8. Both can be run reliably with 37s with alloy shafts and better joints up front, but with stock shafts take it easy on the gas.

[Speed_racer]

Well, I plan on building up the d44 ,but as i edited and put above, the 9" will be going in , but probably not for 5 months

[BrettM]

an 8.8 can be made reliable with 37s pretty easily, but if you have a good deal on a built 9", go for it. what D44 are you using?

[Speed_racer]

Truth is, I know so little about axles. My buddy had a built XJ that he blew the motor in, so he used some parts from one, and some parts from another, and built his current rig, the d44 was left over, so I picked it up from em.

[Goatman]

Well, you guys did it, you talked me into staying w/leafs and just finding a way to get some nice flat leaves that flex like mad!

Now I just need to do more research and find out what length leaves / shackle / angle of shackle ill need for 10"

Glad to see you came to your senses.........and don't get your panties in bunch, we're having fun here as well as trying to exchange useful information. :D

I can tell you what I've done, but if you do a search using "leaves" and posts by "Goatman", on "mod tech" forum showing "posts" (not threads), you'll get quite a bit of info, and it's much easier than re-typing it here.

Here it is: http://www.naxja.org/forum/search.php?searchid=129763

Here are a couple of pics flexed out with rear leaf springs:

52" long XJ springs (home built)
http://fototime.com/8A355B700EF0024/standard.jpg
http://fototime.com/5283DD6B9F7E296/standard.jpg

57" long leaves....MJ main leaf (home built)
http://fototime.com/160161EA8A7B7D7/standard.jpg

[vintagespeed]

I agree with Goat (like that's new), leafs in the rear is the only way to go and he's gone a long way to make them work well. Getting 8-10" isn't that hard, National makes a nice 10 leaf pack that will get you 6", a long travel shackle for the springs will be about 1" lift and then you add 1" raised perches (or 2" like mine) and you've got your 8". Make the perches long & wide and you'll fight axle wrap. You'll have a spring pack that works well and gives you trail feel without the 'unloading' affect of coils or coilovers.

I dont currently have any axle wrap even with 38.5s and 2" lift perches. I probably will when I go to an Atlas which is why I've been considering a 4 link rear but I haven't seen rear coils that offer the control & stability of leafs. Maybe with a good swaybar & lots of trial & error it could work well.

-jb