The front leaf spring thread. who's doing it now? what have you learned?

[BrettM]

I've read in the last few days at least 5 people say they are doing front leaf conversions, and at least 5 people have done it in the past year. I did this almost a year ago when only a few other people had done it, so I didn't have a whole lot of ideas to steal.

-So, post up if you have done the conversion, tell us what changes you've made or what you would have done differently.

-Post up if you're planning on doing this conversion in the near future (HTeK, dennisuello, etc) and tell us what you've learned from others that have done it. Tell us of any new ideas you've had.

Lets keep this thread purely to front leafs, and not debating whether leafs or coils are better/cheaper/less work/etc. that's been beat to death. :twak:

and just for fun:
Leaf springs are for covered wagons

[onetallmj]

I am planning on this mod in the future also. Thanks Bret for bringing this up.
What leafs is everyone using(Waggy's, 44044, ??'s). How did you make the front shackle?

thanks

Wade(now a member!!)

[BrettM]

and just to get it started, here's a picture of mine (when it was 90% done) click on it to see full-size
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/upload/front_d44.thumb.jpg (http://www.xjdb.com/modules.php?set_albumName=upload&id=front_d44&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php)

I used a 1980 Wagoneer D44
-welded on SOA perches
-cut and turned the knuckles (easier than most make it out to be)
-got a flat-top knuckle and run crossover with a Part Mike arm (www.partsmikeparts.com)
-run 3.5" front YJ springs from BDS which were 60-some-dollars each, are military wrapped on both ends, and have a lifetime no questions asked warantee
-shackle forward
-front crossmember is 4x4x1/4 angle that attaches with 13(?) bolts including all bumper/towhook bracket bolts, swaybar mount bolts, steering box bolts, etc.
-rear hangers built of 1/4 steel and welded to "frame"
-roughly 7 inches of lift, maybe closer to 8"


It all works very well and walked through every hard line on Fordyce Creek trail.

Future plans:

-Hydro-assist, to help keep steering forces off the leafs and off uni-body.
-after hydro-assist, I may put a trackbar (panhard) on it, but I'll decide after wheelin it with just the hydro-assist.

[BrettM]

I am planning on this mod in the future also. Thanks Bret for bringing this up.
What leafs is everyone using(Waggy's, 44044, ??'s). How did you make the front shackle?

thanks

Wade(now a member!!)
44044s are great springs, but since they have gotten so popular have become overpriced, usaully $120 or more per spring. I really like my BDS springs.

For the shackle, I used a stock rear type shackle, it's 4 inch center to center, I think it's an MJ shackle or a Chevy shackle. I like this style because you can setup 1/4 plate for you shackle hangar then drill and re-drill holes wherever you need to move the shackle around.

Just so everyone knows, you can use free picture hosting in the Uploads section of www.XJDB.com (thanks again Billy!)

[dennisuello]

i plan on doing it this summer. so far the plan is as follows:

- use my rear 4.5" RE springs in the front, run them backwards (the longer section towards the back)
- front crossmember bolted to the front, incorporating c-rok plate and bumper mounts
- shackle mounts bolted to the front crossmember
- angle iron plated "frame"
- spring hangers welded to the "frame"

[BrettM]

I would recommend against running an XJ spring in the front unless you're planning on running a trackbar. I originally had mine setup with MJ main leafs, and with leafs that long there is too much side-to-side movement with all the steering forces. With shorter YJ or Waggy leaves, this isn't too much of a problem.

[dennisuello]

I would recommend against running an XJ spring in the front unless you're planning on running a trackbar. I originally had mine setup with MJ main leafs, and with leafs that long there is too much side-to-side movement with all the steering forces. With shorter YJ or Waggy leaves, this isn't too much of a problem.

i hate trackbars. :D

[JeepFreak21]

HERE (http://www.xjdb.com/modules.php?PHPSESSID=c0fdbea6b0a493717c5f2f592c4a 58c0&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=search.php&searchstring=leaf+conversion) are some more front leaf conversion pictures. :greensmok
Billy

[BrettM]

HERE (http://www.xjdb.com/modules.php?PHPSESSID=c0fdbea6b0a493717c5f2f592c4a 58c0&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=search.php&searchstring=leaf+conversion) are some more front leaf conversion pictures. :greensmok
Billy
at least 2 of those have Chevy frames attached to XJ bodies, not sure I would call that a leaf conversion... and this one looks to be running Skyjacker front suspension and i don't see any leafs hanging out front:
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/xjs/xj0193.thumb.jpg

thanks for all the pics though, but I noticed my MJ didn't come up in that search?

[Blatant]

I'll be doing it this summer as well. Currently setting up gears in my hp44 front axle. Detroit, 5.13s, double-ended steering arms. I plan on fabbing a simple crossmembers/shackle hanger and either making or buying slightly extended Wrangler shackles. I'll be running 44044s I picked up cheap on Pirate. Beyond that I'll cut whatever's necessary to fit the 37s.
dion

[dennisuello]

I would recommend against running an XJ spring in the front unless you're planning on running a trackbar. I originally had mine setup with MJ main leafs, and with leafs that long there is too much side-to-side movement with all the steering forces. With shorter YJ or Waggy leaves, this isn't too much of a problem.

i might end up with Waggys. i just need to figure out which ones i will need for 8-10" lift.

i've got my 14bolt and front 60, which needs to be assembled (knuckles, gears locker) and set-up for high steer. will stay full-width, run Detroits front/rear and 38x13x16 TSLs on 16x8 steel wheels with 4" or 5" BS.

[BrettM]

Blatant: are you sure the double ended steering arm will work with a HP D44? I was under the impression they only work with LP D44s because the tie-rod has to go above the pinion?

Dennis: I had stock Waggys in at one time and they were about 6 inches of lift, 3.5" YJ springs give 7-8 inches. So I would think you're best with 4.5" YJ springs (RE) which should give 8-9 inches, or BDS makes 4" Waggy springs which should give about 10": http://www.bds-suspension.com/suspensionsystems_5jeep.html

[Blatant]

Brett: Sure? Nope, not at all. My friend and I made the double-ended arms on the hp60 on my last rig (tie rod behind pumpkin), so I was making an assumption the 44 arms would work in a similar fashion.
dion

[BrettM]

i definitely remember reading that about the Rockstomper double arms, but there's only one way to find out for sure. you coud put some bends in your tie-rod to clear the pinion if necessary, as long as it's heavy tube and still clears the oil-pan.

[dennisuello]

started on the front crossmember last night. i am using 4x4x1/4 angle that will be tied to c-rok plate on one side and matching plate on the other side, all welded together and bolted to the "frame" and what's left of the stock front crossmember. will post pics once it's on the jeep.

[jeepxjga]

did it, like it, simplicity was my reason and also budget. hindsight i would have strengthened a few things at first. overall, the only thigns i need to change right now are new leaves (mine are wore out from so many trips), and maybe different front shackles. overall i love it, has been tellico tested and approved.

edit: lol jeepfreak, you've got both my jeeps on there when they were in decent condition, i've only had the new one done for about 2 months and i've already dented just about every panel pretty badly, lost the mirrors and cut more than i had originally on front haha

[xj_punk]

my setup does alright
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p509bd2447c484f818b995aa32c7ae5ee/f84f9d5b.jpg
what ya think?

[xj_punk]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid119/pae7f9387e133135c9402ea93b1b911f7/f870c5cb.jpg

[xj_punk]

before paint... maiden voyage in moab
cliffhanger to be exact
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid112/p914641d127332d130648e9c26126a5bb/f901d153.jpg
and yes i made it up that ledge

[BrettM]

I can't see it XJpunk... must be 'cause it's imagestation

it's real easy to upload and link pictures on Billy's (JeepFreak21) website, www.xjdb.com

[BrettM]

wait, now that the page refreshed I can see the second 2, but not the first.... stupid world wide web


edit: do you have a link to any of your build pictures? and any plans for the rear suspension? it's beging for a 4 link

[HTeK]

Great thread brett -

I am planning on doing this as soon as I get my 44's built. What have I learned? Well, not a WHOLE lot yet, after tons of searching here and pirate, I really think its gonna be a "figure out the details on the fly" sorta deal.

But a couple peices of information that I have picked up and found useful to my project:
1) If one trusted the stock LCA mounts enough, the bolt holes are drilled at an angle from each other. This would make the distance of the the front spring eyes greater than the distance of the rear spring eyes. Another good reason NOT to use the stock LCA mounts. I will be plating (3/16's) and re-drilling on the stock lca mounts. With this, i will be plating the uni-rails and tying all together.
2) 44044's are too tall. Stock waggy's are too short. 11" and 6" are the numbers I have heard. I want ~7". I will try the RE 2.5" springs.
3) Shackle reversal appears to be too much work to justify any benefits.
4) 4x4 angle seems to be the front xmember of choice. Any reason to run 1/4" instead of 3/16's"?

-jm

[BrettM]

Great thread brett -

I am planning on doing this as soon as I get my 44's built. What have I learned? Well, not a WHOLE lot yet, after tons of searching here and pirate, I really think its gonna be a "figure out the details on the fly" sorta deal.

But a couple peices of information that I have picked up and found useful to my project:
1) If one trusted the stock LCA mounts enough, the bolt holes are drilled at an angle from each other. This would make the distance of the the front spring eyes greater than the distance of the rear spring eyes. Another good reason NOT to use the stock LCA mounts. I will be plating (3/16's) and re-drilling on the stock lca mounts. With this, i will be plating the uni-rails and tying all together.
2) 44044's are too tall. Stock waggy's are too short. 11" and 6" are the numbers I have heard. I want ~7". I will try the RE 2.5" springs.
3) Shackle reversal appears to be too much work to justify any benefits.
4) 4x4 angle seems to be the front xmember of choice. Any reason to run 1/4" instead of 3/16's"?

-jm
1) don't run your springs at an angle, if you're going to use the LCA mount, it needs to be modified to let the bolt be straight. seems to me like it'd be easier to just chop it off and build a new hangar
2) brand new (JC Whitney replacements) 7 leaf Waggys run about 6 inches, and 44044s are 2.5" lift springs, so I would guess 44044s come in at about 9 inches. 3.5" YJ springs give 7-7.5 inches. Take a serious look at BDS springs, they are cheaper than RE, better warranty than anyone, and full military wrap on both ends.
3) agreed
4) why not 1/4"? weight and price are within just a few percent of each other, I would rather have the comfort of 1/4"

[HTeK]

1) don't run your springs at an angle, if you're going to use the LCA mount, it needs to be modified to let the bolt be straight. seems to me like it'd be easier to just chop it off and build a new hangar
2) brand new (JC Whitney replacements) 7 leaf Waggys run about 6 inches, and 44044s are 2.5" lift springs, so I would guess 44044s come in at about 9 inches. 3.5" YJ springs give 7-7.5 inches. Take a serious look at BDS springs, they are cheaper than RE, better warranty than anyone, and full military wrap on both ends.
3) agreed
4) why not 1/4"? weight and price are within just a few percent of each other, I would rather have the comfort of 1/4"

1) Yup, spring at an angle would be generally a bad idea. Right now, im just gonna plate the LCA mount and drill new holes where appropriate.
2) I can get RE leafs for the same cost as BDS. BUT... I wanna know RE's warranty - if they have one. Right now, just about the only thing i know for sure is that im gonna run YJ 2.5" leaf springs.
4) Why not 1/4"?? Dunno... just a topic for discussion I guess.

Im gonna have to checkout your MJ before I start on mine. When are you going back to school? My conversion wont be happening till this winter, so id better take a peek while your still in town.

[BrettM]

I leave mid-august, but I'm leaving the truck here for next school year. You busy tomorrow? I'm thinking about going up to Greenhorn to mess around

[Capt. Nemo]

started on the front crossmember last night. i am using 4x4x1/4 angle that will be tied to c-rok plate on one side and matching plate on the other side, all welded together and bolted to the "frame" and what's left of the stock front crossmember. will post pics once it's on the jeep.

Let's see those welds, rookie... :laugh3: Hope they don't look like this!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/uploads/samsbirdturds.jpg

[xj_punk]

wait, now that the page refreshed I can see the second 2, but not the first.... stupid world wide web


edit: do you have a link to any of your build pictures? and any plans for the rear suspension? it's beging for a 4 link

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p509bd2447c484f818b995aa32c7ae5ee/f84f9d5b.jpg

now do you see it? yeah it is way begging for a 4link and i wanted to build one when i was building the jeep but i didn't have time before ejs so i just threw the leafs under there. but i did inboard them, which improved flex A TON!!! there are some pics of my chop on xjdb but they are kind of in random order.
when i build a 4 link it will be on a oneseater buggy in the future. actually i might build a two seater with the seats inline front to back.
i am thinking about taking the drivetrain out of my jeep actually and building a full tube chassis that will be narrow! but that will be a winter project

[yellowxj]

If I had to do it over again and I had the money I'd have used 3/4 or 1 ton axles, for width and steering help, but then I'd have to fix the brake system to work with those...
if you're going to use the LCA mount, it needs to be modified to let the bolt be straight. seems to me like it'd be easier to just chop it off and build a new hangar

easy enough to drill a straight hole...just do it a bit to the rear of the stock lca holes where the mount is double thick on each side...mines been good there for almost 2 years now. Love the M.O.R.E. 3 position leaf spring mounts that let me get the axle close to centered in the wheel well.
I just got done trying 2.5"yj 's on the front, (after it fell over I thought it could be a hair lower) and it wasent enough for the 36's...they rubbed inside the fender...just put back on the 4" yj...might put some shorter front shackles on...its 40.5" to the bottom of the front side marker light lense....so how much lift is that? Gotta be around 8-10".
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/2128/DSC02782.jpg

I'd like to get a stronger front axle so I can try to bull my way up some obstacles when finesse gets boring...still wont RTI over 800 but I dont drive on trails made of ramps and its still the daily ride to work...so eh??? I've got to cut the front shackle mounts off and move them to the rear a hair so let me get the max flex...

[dennisuello]

http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130001.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130002.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130003.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130004.jpg
http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130005.jpg

[Capt. Nemo]

Very nice, Denis. Welds look, well, professional. What are you going to do with the front bumper??? ;)

[yellowxj]

nice...are those spring shackle mounts built or bought?

[BrettM]

those front shackles look a little longer than neccesary, mine are 4" center to center, what are those? what springs are you going to run(did you already say?)?

[yellowxj]

4" yj and I ordered shackles with no lift and got those instead...go figure...still looking for shorter shackles...but I was using stock yj shackles before and they were twisting all over...I need to move my shackle mounts back a little...
http://www.kawaja.com/photo/albums/wpw-92/DSC05335.jpg

[BrettM]

oh, okay, but I was actually asking those questions to dennisuello, but I guess i should have made that clear ;)

[dennisuello]

those are 5" shackles (.5" lift YJ shackles). i also have 4" shackles, i might try those. as far as the springs go, I'm not sure yet. i need springs that are ~50" long (between eyes, under weight of the jeep)

Eric, i bought those spring hangers. :D my welds will not looks as pretty (but they will hold)

[dennisuello]

What are you going to do with the front bumper??? ;)

i am not happy with the approach angle of my current bumper. i will have something custom fabricated, that will mount the winch up higher.

[hpi_jeep]

i just did a front leaf swap, you can find pics if you search under my user name.

[Kittrell]

i just did a front leaf swap, you can find pics if you search under my user name.
I was Just gonna mention that you were in the process of one, hows it all coming together?????

[dennisuello]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid121/p509bd2447c484f818b995aa32c7ae5ee/f84f9d5b.jpg

what springs are you running in the front?

[jeepxjga]

well i went and found a couple decent flex shots of my front end. the front does all the flexing, the rear is pretty stiff and kind of limited due to my springs that im' running. anyway, flexes pretty good, the springs are real soft so i could use some sort of traction bar or stiffer springs, but it works for now....
http://rebelrockrunners.org/RYAN/Pics/Gray%20Rock%20May%2014-22%202004/DSC00359.JPG
http://rebelrockrunners.org/RYAN/Pics/Tellico%20June%204-6%202004/000077.jpg

[hpi_jeep]

I was Just gonna mention that you were in the process of one, hows it all coming together?????

well i didnt see my post (did i not look hard enough?)
i worked on it a little saturday, i lifted the passenger front tire off the ground 41" and 3 tires were still on the ground and the other was touching the pallete forks (duh :D) the only reason i stoped is because one of the front leaf packs had fanned out pretty bad.
here are a couple pics i already posted.
http://www.gilmoremotors.com/discus/files/jjp2.jpg
http://www.gilmoremotors.com/discus/files/jp3.jpg

i know there is invisible steering and driveshafts. i have to save up a little more $ now.

d60 front d70 rear, front leafs are wrangler packs with extra main leaf (spring eyes cut off) and a rancho full length AAL (advertised for 2" lift)

[burntkat]

i just did a front leaf swap, you can find pics if you search under my user name.


Aren't you the fellow that had so much trouble with the motor swap out last year?
Sounds like you've proceeded along nicely in your skillset.

I am seriously considering going with leafs as well. It makes upgrading the front axle so much easier it seems- plus, leafs are less apt to do wierd things on you when you're in a hairy spot.

I can get a Waggy D44 front complete for $100, and already have the springs. As it happens, my front bumper I made seems to be pretty damned perfectly suited to use for a spring hanger as well. I put the ORGS SBS system in a couple months back, so there's no worries there, and I've ordered the XJUnireinforcer from Detours, so that's about 80% of the unibody reinforcement I wanted to do. Reinforce the entire unibody with 3/16" channel front to back and weld your cage into the reinforcement and unibody flex is basically a non-issue.

Looks like the answer has presented itself to me. GREAT thread... keep it coming..

[Kittrell]

well i didnt see my post (did i not look hard enough?)

Lol, I did see your previous thread on it. Was just curious how it had come along since then. For some people they just start flying through everything to get it done. And for people like you and me it's a slow but mostly fun process. So now that I know you are the latter(sp?) of the two I will wait a lil' while before I ask for another update............. :cool:

[ashmanjeepxj]

I did mine 08/18/03 ish, 9 page thread on my build:
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=139642

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=1944

Here is an ok side shot from like 4 months ago
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=1781

I do plan to swap out the front leafs in the future so I can raise my steering up. Right now Im building a rear 4link and coils onto a 14bolt, with disk brakes, 5.13 gears, and spooled.

[dennisuello]

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=1781

what front springs are you running?

[CRASH]

I do plan to swap out the front leafs in the future so I can raise my steering up. Right now Im building a rear 4link and coils onto a 14bolt, with disk brakes, 5.13 gears, and spooled.

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

CRASH

[BrettM]

Does anyone else see the irony in this statement?

CRASH
no.



One day I may go back to links in the front, but I will definitely link the rear first. It would be much easier to do a nice link suspension on the rear (especially since I have an MJ) than on the front. It would also eliminate axle-wrap where it occurs most; at the rear axle. I also like having the rear flex a little better than the front, since it's more natural to focus on the front anyway, having the rear flex more means you can forget about it a little more. Look at Camo's buggy for instance, the guy spent like $20,000 on his 60s and countless hours, and he was running a linked rear and leafs up front. This is fairly common on buggys for the same reasons I stated above.

Leafs are cheap, simple, easy, and still very effective. And for some of us, they're probably temporary also until we have the time and money to build a nice front link suspension. I have yet to hear anyone make the claim that they are ideal.

[CRASH]

Whenever discussing modifications to any sort of vehicle, onI always ask myslef a series of questions:

Is the new part going to be BETTER than the old part?

Am I compromising performance in one area to to gain performance in another?

Will Goatman make fun of me?

I guess I've just ridden in too many vehicles with front leafs on the trail. My kidneys and lower back do not recall those trips fondly.

CRASH

[burntkat]

I read Ashman's 9 page thread last night over on Pirate about the leaf swap he's done. Watched the videos and was very impressed with how the vehicle maintained a flat body angle through all but the most outrageous terrain.

What I don't understand, then, is why he's going to coils out back. He had something that worked extremely well onroad and as a trail rig. He took coils out of the front and went to leaves presumably because they work better, now is going from leaves out back to coils.. because they work better. Huh?

I'm certainly not calling into question his fabrication skills or anything of the sort. Just don't understand the contradicting logic. Does it have to do with the weight of the vehicle- leaves support the engine better while the coils work for a severely lightened rearend?

I'm kinda up in the air if I'm going to go leafs or not. I have a lot of projects on my plate already-- a solid axle swap for my 89 S-series Blazer, 350 into same, 4.3/700R4/231C into the XJ. I want to put a Wagoneer D44 up front but am not sure if it would be more work to put leafs in or to weld the brackets on the D44 for the coil setup.

[ashmanjeepxj]

I read Ashman's 9 page thread last night over on Pirate about the leaf swap he's done. Watched the videos and was very impressed with how the vehicle maintained a flat body angle through all but the most outrageous terrain.

What I don't understand, then, is why he's going to coils out back. He had something that worked extremely well onroad and as a trail rig. He took coils out of the front and went to leaves presumably because they work better, now is going from leaves out back to coils.. because they work better. Huh?

I'm certainly not calling into question his fabrication skills or anything of the sort. Just don't understand the contradicting logic.

And why the hell did I pull my working d70 rear out and put an equivalent 14bolt in?
I like trying stuff.

My d30 with stock UCA, and non adjustable LCAs were not worth adapting to my new d60 I added last year. I hated those links. The poly joints didnt last long and I always had issues with Death wobble. It was easier to put leafs on the front and sell the old lift components. I also had better faith in a leaf spring front axle to not have Death wobble like my stock links did. I hated those little links.

I used XJ rear main leafs on my front.. The Maine leafs are pretty thin for the kinda weight on the front. I would go with a Thicker main leaf and/or a mil wrap design second time around... a stock toyota rear leafs would be Ideal. IMO. I chose the XJ leafs to keep it all XJ, and like the idea of added flex from the longer leaf. I really wish I had those shorter mil wraped toyota leafs sitting around!!!!

I have shackle in back on my 84 toyota, and Im still satisfied with my shackle in front choice on the Cherokee. I did not want to make a HACK square tube drive shaft or spend $$$ on a long travle shaft needed to go shackel in back. Re using the stock drive shaft was a BIG plus to shackle in front. Since My shackle is 3/8in thick It doesent get hurt when I bump it and I made them "Anti kick back" so that when I bump they can not easily snap my main leaf.

So why am I doing coils on the rear first?
I had 2in lift blocks in back that I didnt like and S-ed afew leaf packs from all the hopping on hill climbs over afew years. The stock brackets for the main leafs were junk and the bolts were rusted. so I cut the mounts and decided to do a rear 4-link. The 4link in the rear with some stock jeep coils mounted under the frame will give me some added height I need, and this is cheaper then buying some 8in lift XJ leafs with HUGE arch.

With Higher arched leafs in rear and flatter ones in the front like I have under the frame rails my springs were verry un-ballanced. Also to brevent hopping and s-ing leafs I had to make my rear leafs really stiff.



Man... I wrote allot :D

build what you got.

[burntkat]

And why the hell did I pull my working d70 rear out and put an equivalent 14bolt in?
I like trying stuff.

build what you got.


Makes perfect sense now, Ashman.

Thanks. I'm stil ltrying to decide if I want to keep the coils up front or go to leafs. The leafs would make it very easy to put a 44 up front, that's for sure. Of course, so would a EB D44 but they are probably a bit more than the $100 I can get a Wagoneer 44 for from a buddy.

[dennisuello]

post pictures of your spring hangers, the frame side. i plated the frame with 3x4x1/4 angle up to the control arm mount and need ideas on where and how to mount the spring hangers. i've only seen Ashman's and that's the way I going now, with XJ rear springs up front.

[ashmanjeepxj]

post pictures of your spring hangers, the frame side. i plated the frame with 3x4x1/4 angle up to the control arm mount and need ideas on where and how to mount the spring hangers. i've only seen Ashman's and that's the way I going now, with XJ rear springs up front.

Like you saw on mine I made mine out of pieces of plate,But Im not doing that again. Its time consuming, lots of welds, and it warps alittle when you weld it up.

For the 4link Im gonna use some 3/8in thick box tube cut the top off and round off the edges. It makes a much cleaner looking hanger or control arm mounts...

3/8in is not really needed, but will look good in proportion to my huge 1.25in rodends with 3/4in bolts. 1/4in plate next to 1.25 rod ends and a 3/4in-1in bolt looks kinda silly though its strong enough.

Make everything adjustable.

[Gil BullyKatz]

a few questions after reading the whole thread...

front leafs make axle upgrades easier/more options/cheaper, right?

waggy front leafs ok? How much lift do they give?

Any more info on the BDS leafs?

Would you guys recommend on a DD with highway use and occasional wheeling?

Reason I ask, is that I plan to go Dana 44 HP, I was going to go long arm but some asshat broke into my rig a while ago and stole my jj's and other material for it. I'm not done with the stroker yet and I'll still need to upgrade the rear axle so money is a BIG concern. There are a lot of Waggy's getting parted out around here and I could prolly get the leafs real cheap (vs building long arms & crossmember)

Any newer observations?

BTW...the rig is currently at 7-8" and plan on going 35-37" shoes next year

[BrettM]

stock replacement 7 leaf Waggys gave me 6-7 inches with the rear mounted snug to the frame rail and a 4 inch shackle up front. 3.5" BDS YJ springs gave me about 8" and are only about $60 each.

I really like it, but if you already have an F100/150 HP D44, just do coils. If you're still shopping for an axle get a Waggy and do leafs. check out my thread on Pirate, link in my signature.

[Gil BullyKatz]

I really like it, but if you already have an F100/150 HP D44, just do coils. If you're still shopping for an axle get a Waggy and do leafs. check out my thread on Pirate, link in my signature.

Thanks a lot for the leaf info,

But, I'm under the impression the waggy is a low pinion regular rotation vs the f150/250/350 being high pinion reverse rotation

I can usually find the leaf sprung hi pinions for about the same price as the waggys 'round here. Common consensus round here is that the RC axles are a bit stronger than the standard rotation and the extra clearance of the high pinion is a freebie.

I guess it all kinda depends on what kinda deal I find, I'll prolly wind up buying front and rears, hoping to get a 60 or 9". Motor's getting forced induction as well as strokin to 4.7 so I need the extra strength

Thanks, good info

[TB-XJ]

I'm having this done this week, I'm using CJ rear springs (will these be long enough? They look perfect!) and a Waggy D-44 LP. Also I'm swapping in the rear AMC 20 I got from the Wagoneer, the only thing that will suck is they have 2.72 gears. I'll be switching them to 4.88's and when I wear out my 32's I'm going to re-lift it and run 36-37's.

Hope it all works out.

[BrettM]

Gil, if you can get a leaf-sprung RC D44 for the same price as a Waggy, go that route, though it will be a lot wider and have 8 lug outers.

TB-XJ, i wouldn't even THINK about running 32s with 2.72 gears. I wished for more gear with 3.07s and 28s, and 4.88s with 33s is perfect. wait to do the swap until you can do it right.

[vintagespeed]

Like you saw on mine I made mine out of pieces of plate,But Im not doing that again. Its time consuming, lots of welds, and it warps alittle when you weld it up.

For the 4link Im gonna use some 3/8in thick box tube cut the top off and round off the edges. It makes a much cleaner looking hanger or control arm mounts...

3/8in is not really needed, but will look good in proportion to my huge 1.25in rodends with 3/4in bolts. 1/4in plate next to 1.25 rod ends and a 3/4in-1in bolt looks kinda silly though its strong enough.

Make everything adjustable.

You guys gotta think about tubing for your hangers & CA mounts. I used to cut all my mounts out of plate with my plasma & while not as time consuming as other methods, it still took alot of time.

Use 3x3x3/16" tubing for JJ & RE joint mounts, 2.5" wide leaf spring hangers & whatever else needs 2.625" ID.

Ash, 3/8? WTF is up with that, you're welds not up to par or something? 1/4 is overkill in a double shear application like a CA mount or spring hanger, that's a 1/2" of steel with a 9/16" bolt through it, what's gonna happen? Not to mention that when you weld thick arse metal (like 3/8?????) to thinner metal which one do you think is gonna suck up the heat & get brittle.............I'll give you a hint, it aint the 3/8.

-jb

[vintagespeed]

.......I'm using CJ rear springs (will these be long enough? They look perfect!)....Hope it all works out.

I hope these are aftermarket 2.5" leafs & not 2" wide CJ springs? Wider is better in leaf springs, as is more thin leafs vs. few thick leafs.

-jb

[vintagespeed]

i am not happy with the approach angle of my current bumper. i will have something custom fabricated, that will mount the winch up higher.

http://home.off-road.com/~lifted/pub/misc/06130005.jpg



Huh? I was gonna leave this thread alone until I read this one. You're rebuilding your bumper to get more approach angle?

What about those big shackle thingys sticking out BELOW the bumper, dont they use up some of that approach angle? :laugh3:

-jb

[TB-XJ]

I am using the rear CJ springs up front, they are 2.5 inches wide, they are not the thinner front springs, I believe those are thinner width-wise. I appreciate the advice.

[dennisuello]

Huh? I was gonna leave this thread alone until I read this one. You're rebuilding your bumper to get more approach angle?
What about those big shackle thingys sticking out BELOW the bumper, dont they use up some of that approach angle? :laugh3:
-jb

I will move the axle forward a little, plus i will be running 38s, so my approach angle will be pretty good.

[Big Red]

Good thread by Brett. I'm thinking seriously of doing SOA with 2.5" aal in XJ leaf packs up front on my hp44 swap. Anyone have some more input on this conversion from the last post 9/04? Are all you guys using the LCA mount and welding on shackles to the under sides of your aftermarket bumpers or bumper mounts? Are any of you running shackles to the LCA and running a fixed mount up front (shackle reversal set up popular on YJs and CJs)?
Troy

[BrettM]

Good thread by Brett. I'm thinking seriously of doing SOA with 2.5" aal in XJ leaf packs up front on my hp44 swap. Anyone have some more input on this conversion from the last post 9/04? Are all you guys using the LCA mount and welding on shackles to the under sides of your aftermarket bumpers or bumper mounts? Are any of you running shackles to the LCA and running a fixed mount up front (shackle reversal set up popular on YJs and CJs)?
Troy
i hope you don't mean XJ packs up front.

Ashman tried this, I tried with MJ packs. Now he has Toyota packs and I have YJ packs. XJ/MJ rear springs are too long for a front application unless you use a trackbar/panhard.

[scottiebobbie]

i did mine last month, still got to do shocks and get tires and some finishing up stuff. before i did mine the main thing i wanted to find out was what size springs to use to level the truck and i never really found that info so i guessed, and i know that it will vary depending on if you do a reversal and the way you hang the spring. i ended up doing a shakle revesal and BDS 2" YJ's up front and the rear is 6" spring w/ 2" block. i am not sure what tires i am gonna run, wating to see if i can find some used ones to fit the 17" h2 wheels.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/p44547933b59a7bd9144a3bbb1a618fc8/f5eb5fd8.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/pe38405e2aabfc0a9a9d2ba27fa707f71/f5eb6003.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid150/p9558656859509ed8f9f2244efb803050/f5eb602c.jpg

[burntkat]

nice red Xs......8(

<use photobucket.com-- MUCH easier to post pics to forums>

I'm really interested in your shackle reversal, as I am going to be building my leaf conversion soon and wanted some ideas.....

[scottiebobbie]

pics not showing up? i can see um

[JeepFreak21]

pics not showing up? i can see um

That's cause you're logged into the photo hosting service. Everyone else see's http://www.slicky.net/smilies/redxdance.gif
Billy

[Big Red]

ScottieBobbie, do you have any pics of the shackles in the rear mount? Did you use the LCA mount or drill a clean straight hole in back of the stock LCA mounting hole? So you think you are around 8" lift f/r? I was looking to get that from leafs up front, right now I have 8" skyjacker coils on a 5.5" re xduty kit bumped up 2" in the back with blocks. I think I will either get the 3.5" YJ BDS leafs or the ones you got and do a shackle reversal. How does it ride on the street/offroad?
Troy

[XJ_ranger]

That's cause you're logged into the photo hosting service. Everyone else see's http://www.slicky.net/smilies/redxdance.gif
Billy
i can see them and have nothing to do with image station... try clicking the quote button on his post, and then they popped up for me....

[scottiebobbie]

can everyone see these? for the shackle i took a piece of 2.5" 1/4" thick flat bar and cut it about 16" long and drilled a few holes in it then welded the hangers i made to it and then welded that to the bottom of the unibody all along the sides and a few plug welds. i did not want to use the factory LCA mount.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/scottiebobbie/wheels003.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/scottiebobbie/spool009.jpg

[onetallmj]

Back to the tech portion of this thread..........

Considering going leafs up front and using the good ol' D44 HP from a Ferd.

I have seen posts over on Pirate that there is supposedly a leaf sprung HP D44 that is 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern, stock. I guess its out of a "special camper edition" F150.

Anybody seen one or can confirm this? This would be an ideal set up since you could just use wheel adapters/spacer for the rear axle to get your wheel stud patterns to match. I think I saw where it was like 62 or 63" wide also. I will have to search over there some more.

[BrettM]

I think it is more like 65" wide. Big Red has come across one of these recently, PM him.

[Big Red]

I have that 1 and the matching ford 9" like Brett said they are 65-66" wide. I'm debating whether I want to run it with the 9" or keep my axles I have and get Yukon alloys and Longfields u-joints for the front 30. I got the pair from Coors on Pirate out of Redlands, CA near Redding.

[onetallmj]

well if you want to get rid of the D44, let me know, I will take off your hands for ya!! :wave:

[JeepFreak21]

I have that 1 and the matching ford 9" like Brett said they are 65-66" wide. I'm debating whether I want to run it with the 9" or keep my axles I have and get Yukon alloys and Longfields u-joints for the front 30. I got the pair from Coors on Pirate out of Redlands, CA near Redding.

Redlands and Redding are nowhere near eachother. Redlands is near San Bernadino (Southern Cali) and Redding is near Lake SHASTA (Northern Cali).
Billy


PS - how about we change the name of the hasta smilie so I don't have to type SHASTA in all caps http://www.slicky.net/smilies/thumbup.gif

[Big Red]

It was about 15 miles or so South of Redding. Anyways at the moment I'm holding off on getting these axles in my xj until I sell the ones under there now 30/44 or I might run these axles for another year or so and then build my 44/9" as I find deals and more $$$.

Who else has some front leaf spring advice and pics??? Thanks for bringing this thread back Billy. :) Is your XJ still for sale???
Troy

[chadc]

I have pretty much finished the leaf conversion on my AJ (asshole jeep).
Used the waggy 44 wanted 6 lug to match the isuzu 44, 4.5 yj springs, used 4.5x4.5 angle for the crossmember(looks like you started something Brett). I also plated the frame with 1/8 in flat steel, only to the rear hanger. I didn't use angle because the flat stock was a freebie, and easier to work with, but more welding. Shackles are in the front, I want shorter and better ones, plus probably an add leaf.
Still gotta do the little things, figure out what to do with shock mounts, have to drill some holes through the front crossmember so I can plumb the winch, 1.5" hole saw through 1/4" in a hand drill, that'll be fun. Need a front driveshaft to mate to the 241 flange. etc,etc.
I haven't driven it much, just about to enough to upset the neighbors, but I like the way it feels. Steering feels solid turn the wheel or hit a bump and I don't get nervous, and suspension travel seems good, but can be improved. Thats comparing it to my old long arm.
I'm gonna be changing some things, I wish I had gone with full width, wider is better, the 15.5s are pretty much covered with stock flairs. I think I'm gonna change the shackle angle, I think I want less. Also gonna make all 4 shackle hangers with johnny or re joints.
for practicallity, $, and all around wheeling I'm beginning to wonder why I ever messed around with the coils. But that might change when I get it in the woods.
Next is to fix the campers special leaf pack I have in the rear
I'm done running my gums
chadc

http://grovestreet.com/jsp/picview.jsp?album=15160

[BrettM]

lookin good, but a few things:

-if you put johnny joints in the shackles, you may get too much side to side movement from the axle when you steer. this could be countered by a panhard (trackbar) or hydro-assist.

-steering. I didn't see any in your pics. I sure hope you're running crossover or high-steer, when I was using the stock Waggy inverted T it was scary. also, for steering arms, you will want to get one that is fairly short (i'm using partsmike) or a longer pitman arm so that you get full steering.

-tires/wheels. looks plenty wide to me, but I guess our trails may be pretty different, what backspacing are you using?

-wheel travel. you need to let the leafs break in after a few trails before you can expect good travel out of them.

[THRASHER]

whats up, I have been lurking around since august when I bought an 85xj for a trail rig buildup. I am just finishing p the front leaf conversion, should be finished by next week. Here is my setup...

-I went with a 31 spline 9in in the rear. I hadnt planned on running this axle, but I traded my dana30 and my 35 housing for it. I left it full width.

-Front axle is a 30spline 44 out of a cherokee chief. Its not a disco and has u-joints and not cv's. It is the same width as the 9in, I just need to figure out what to do about the bolt pattern. Does anyone know of a good set of wheel adapters that arent to wide? The knuckles are flat top, so I will be using a highsteer arm on the passenger side for now just to raise the draglink until I get the funds for a new tierod and another arm.

-My front crossmember is 4x4x1/4 in angle (thanks for the idea Brett). I used Slickrock shackle hangers and shortie shackles. For the rear hanger I am using the lower control arm mount. I have the springs hung and center pin to center pin is 30.5in.

The rear axle is in, I just need to get some shims or rotate the perches a few degrees. I also need to pick up a dakota brake line. I have the perches for the front, I just need to weld them on and then I can bolt in the axle. I am using stock waggy springs, I might switch to yj's depending on the stance. I have some 37x12.5x15in SSR that I will be running. I will try to get some pics up soon. The axle should be hung by tuesday and my goal is to have it on the road by next week...

[BrettM]

what bolt patern is the 9"? you can change the D44 to 5on5.5, 6on5.5 and 8on6.5 all pretty easily.

[THRASHER]

what bolt patern is the 9"? you can change the D44 to 5on5.5, 6on5.5 and 8on6.5 all pretty easily.

The 9in is 5on5.5, so I think I can change it with chevy outers or something like that. I found a list on pirate4x4 I need to dig up again....


I got the axle mounted today, everything looks good. The only thing I am worried about is the shackle angle. With the axle hanging, the shackles are at about 83-87*, with the axle on jackstands, the shackles ride at about 50*, is the angle to great? The shackles are 4.5in center to center, and I am running stock waggy springs, not the 7-leafs. The springs seem real soft, and I would like to keep it as low as I can. Would an add-a-leaf help the angle? The springs arent flat with the weight, they have a slight curve to them....what do you guys think...

[gump]

Thrasher, how much lift do you hope to acheive with this setup? What did you do for lift in back? I have an 86, and I've been looking into doing the leaf conversion. This thread rocks!

[THRASHER]

Thrasher, how much lift do you hope to acheive with this setup? What did you do for lift in back? I have an 86, and I've been looking into doing the leaf conversion. This thread rocks!

I am not sure on how much lift I got. I was using a stock waggy pack, but it was to soft and my shackle was at 55+ degrees on flat ground. I took the packs apart this afternoon and removed the bottom leafs and put in add-a-leafs that are for a xj pack. Shackle now rides at about 43-45 degrees which is perfect. With this spring setup, the bottom of the blinker is at 36in. The jeep is sitting on some bald 33in rollers, I dont know how much lift I got but I have plenty of room for 37's...

Kevin

[THRASHER]

got my junk sitting on its tires. Still need to set up the highsteer, get new brakelines, and set up gears but I should be on the trail soon. The tires are bald 33in swapers and the wheels are 15x8 w/4in backspacing. Width is around 78in and wheelbase in now 106. Front shackle rides at 43*....

http://jeeperz.tenmagazines.com/gallery/THRASHER831/79768.jpg

[chadc]

lookin good, but a few things:

-if you put johnny joints in the shackles, you may get too much side to side movement from the axle when you steer. this could be countered by a panhard (trackbar) or hydro-assist.

-steering. I didn't see any in your pics. I sure hope you're running crossover or high-steer, when I was using the stock Waggy inverted T it was scary. also, for steering arms, you will want to get one that is fairly short (i'm using partsmike) or a longer pitman arm so that you get full steering.

-tires/wheels. looks plenty wide to me, but I guess our trails may be pretty different, what backspacing are you using?

-wheel travel. you need to let the leafs break in after a few trails before you can expect good travel out of them.

Steering is high steer, rims are 10in with 4.5 backspacing

[Slip Kid]

all upgrades are mods, not all mods are upgrades.

can someone please explain the benefit of front leaves and rear coils, when used togather? I can definately see advantages to having leaves all around, and definately see (different) advantages to having coils all around, and front coils/rear leaves is obvoiously a very good setup. however I'm totally not seeing the point to the front leaf rear coil thing though, unless you're one of those "stock sucks" people.

but what do I know I'm "upgrading" to a "new" engine with 200k on it, I guess we all get off on changing things

[yellowxj]

one of the "rock crawlers" in my area who frequently heads north has leaves on the front of his yj and air shocks on the rear...crazy flex in the rear and yj style flex in the front. He says its better cause he can drive the front where he wants and the rear just follows...I see him lift a lot of weight off the rear sometimes...but it works for him...I think mine with leaves all the way around was really well balanced...

[BrettM]

all upgrades are mods, not all mods are upgrades.

can someone please explain the benefit of front leaves and rear coils, when used togather? I can definately see advantages to having leaves all around, and definately see (different) advantages to having coils all around, and front coils/rear leaves is obvoiously a very good setup. however I'm totally not seeing the point to the front leaf rear coil thing though, unless you're one of those "stock sucks" people.

but what do I know I'm "upgrading" to a "new" engine with 200k on it, I guess we all get off on changing things
I don't want to get into this too heavily since this has been debated elsewhere and is not the point of this thread.

Leafs in front coils in rear is nice because most axle wrap comes from the rear, so the links prevent that, and like yellowxj said the front leafs provide a lot of stability and once you get them through a section, you can be pretty much sure the rear will flex right through even if it takes a little different line than the front. Most people tend to focus on where their front tires are going since they can steer them, and rarely does the rear follow the same line.

If you look at all the guys the start with 4 leafs (YJs, CJs, Toyotas, Chevys, etc) you'll notice that they almost always link the rear before the front. I recall a poll on PBB about which end to link first, and the majority vote was heavily in favor of linking the rear first.

[BrettM]

lookin good THRASHER!


mjlogan88 on PBB just posted this pic of his on my buildup thread:

http://img82.exs.cx/img82/3931/1030364res2cn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[MJlogan]

lookin good THRASHER!


mjlogan88 on PBB just posted this pic of his on my buildup thread:

http://img82.exs.cx/img82/3931/1030364res2cn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)


check it out i'm famous!

went to post it up myself but it looks like i wasnt fast enough

[yellowxj]

helping my friend jason out a bit on his mj build up when I can...had to build it at my house...got a hp44 and 9 inch now and some 35" swampers....I dont know if he's already got pics on this thread or not...
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/1461/mj20021tt.jpg
http://img131.exs.cx/img131/5167/mj20014lh.jpg

[HTeK]

Wow, good lookin front fenders. How did you guys cut those?

-jm

[BrettM]

if he's planning on actually wheelin that MJ get rid of those shackles, they will turn into Zs real quick, look for pics on Fordyce of Poomba if you have any questions regarding that.

looks like too much lift to me, but I'll let you make the decision on that one.

how long are the leafs? they look real long, if they're more than 48" you'll probably need either a panhard or hydro assist.

[MJlogan]

I'm running xj front mains (52") and dont really have any gripes.

[BrettM]

I'm running xj front mains (52") and dont really have any gripes.
on the street, sure. have you wheeled it? especially in rocks?

[MJlogan]

on the street, sure. have you wheeled it? especially in rocks?

yes to both.

Granted I've only had it out for one weekend, but I didnt really expirience any of the negatives that have been brought up about the xj mains.

[JJacobs]

on the street, sure. have you wheeled it? especially in rocks?

I ran XJ mains in the front, on 40's with hydro assist. The front was welded with full time drive flanges. So I can't say if the panhard would help on the street or not, but in the rocks that thing did flat out awesome.

I ran a 5" long shackle, in the front, and when climbing a tire vertical like up a wall the shackle would fold over and lock on the frame. Despite having a 45 degree forward angle at rest. Mechanical stops fixed that. The other issue was building the xj with the springs angling down at the rear made it really hard to bolt the axle to the diff with correct pinion angle.

[BrettM]

I ran XJ mains in the front, on 40's with hydro assist. The front was welded with full time drive flanges. So I can't say if the panhard would help on the street or not, but in the rocks that thing did flat out awesome.



that's the key right there, can't imagine wheeling without it, even on "little" 35s

[MJlogan]

I'm running a 'yota mil. wrap leaf in my xj pack and it seems to help with the spring bending/ shackle inversion. I'll be able to make a better judgement on how the xj's work after going to JV next weekend.

I'm coming from a butchered longarm setup with stock steering, so maybe thats why the leafs dont feel all that bad.

[jeepmj_tj]

I'm running a 'yota mil. wrap leaf in my xj pack and it seems to help with the spring bending/ shackle inversion. I'll be able to make a better judgement on how the xj's work after going to JV next weekend.

I'm coming from a butchered longarm setup with stock steering, so maybe thats why the leafs dont feel all that bad.


do you have any other pics of your setup.

[davidt]

I am going to tackle this project this weekend, I am going to be running toy rears up front, and was wondering if there are any problems I should watch for. Also, what length shocks are you guys running? thanks in advance. david

[baseballneal86]

Definitly take lots of pics along the way so we can all benefit from this.

Thanks, Neal

[BrettM]

I am going to tackle this project this weekend, I am going to be running toy rears up front, and was wondering if there are any problems I should watch for. Also, what length shocks are you guys running? thanks in advance. david
I'm running Bilstein 5100s in the 12 inch travel. my mounts are totally custom though. With 7 inches of lift I maybe could have fit 14" travel shocks without reducing up-travel, but 12 should be fine.

[davidt]

thanks brett, does anybody know their cab heighth, I don't want to build it in my garage and not be able to get it out ;)

[BrettM]

thanks brett, does anybody know their cab heighth, I don't want to build it in my garage and not be able to get it out ;)
here is a picture of mine with the front leafs at about 8 inches (this is right before first wheelin trip so they've broken in to about 7") and 35s. my parents' garage is whatever size is standard and there is still plenty of room.

http://img82.echo.cx/img82/1645/p10100042dm.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[davidt]

got her done this weekend (almost). What did I learn? that you can't use a brettm style crossmember and stock lca mounts and use toy rears, they are just to long. I also learned that pro crap waggy extended brake lines don't work for the D44 in the front.

[MJlogan]

just got back from the tin benders jambo at JV- ran aftershock on friday night and it worked great- just need to get the tie rod a bit higher it wasnt too happy by the end of the trail.

[THRASHER]

Guess I will bring this back to the top with a shot of mine...moved today for the first time....still need to put in my gears and hook up the front shaft....

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/THRASHER/137418.jpg

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/THRASHER/137419.jpg

[baseballneal86]

I'm thinking of converting my XJ to leaves up front and would like to see some pics of people's approach angles. Can some of you leaf spring converts post up for me?

Thanks -Neal

[JeepFreak21]

I'm thinking of converting my XJ to leaves up front and would like to see some pics of people's approach angles. Can some of you leaf spring converts post up for me?

Thanks -Neal

CLICK HERE! (http://www.xjdb.com/modules.php?PHPSESSID=12df567c88173ef4327e2a80b560 7437&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=search.php&searchstring=leaf+conversion&submit=Search)
Billy

[mississippi_xj]

-steering. I didn't see any in your pics. I sure hope you're running crossover or high-steer, when I was using the stock Waggy inverted T it was scary. also, for steering arms, you will want to get one that is fairly short (i'm using partsmike) or a longer pitman arm so that you get full steering.

brett... what was the problem? bump steer? I have been considering going with the stock waggy steering for a while....

[BrettM]

brett... what was the problem? bump steer? I have been considering going with the stock waggy steering for a while....
for one, you don't get full left to right steering, though you could with a longer pitman arm (drop Waggy arm). but with the steep angle of the draglink you get both a big dead spot in the middle and massive bumpsteer.

[mississippi_xj]

now.... if I wanted to use my superlift trac bar could I just make sure it is parallel to the draglink and that take care of that? don't really wan't a trac bar, but I am doing this on a super tight budget... I will probably go full high steer sometime in the future...

[BrettM]

a panhard (tracbar) would take care of the bump-steer but not the dead spot or limited steering angle.

the angle will be so steep on that panhard that you will get very little flex or movement out of the front end as the leafs verticle travel binds with the panhard's arc.

I would highly recommend waiting until you can do it right.

[mississippi_xj]

fiar enough... thanks for the info. how does one of these setups ride on the street? (w/ good steering)

how about something like this? I have abuddy with a cj that runs something super similar to this.... he just doesn't have as steep of a draglink angle.
http://www.xjdb.com/albums/xjs/Front.jpg

[mississippi_xj]

well... enough of me sounding like a 'tard...

going with crossover from sky manufacturing and gearing the front with 4.56's to match the rear I have found. anyone run a welded front with manual hubs? also anyone have any input on rotating the pinion up and turning the knuckles? just grind the welds and hit with a BFH.... right?

Brett, I am going with an isuzu 12bolt with disc brakes, 4.56's and welded.... thought you might appreciate the whole japanise rear end thing....

[BrettM]

well... enough of me sounding like a 'tard...

going with crossover from sky manufacturing and gearing the front with 4.56's to match the rear I have found. anyone run a welded front with manual hubs? also anyone have any input on rotating the pinion up and turning the knuckles? just grind the welds and hit with a BFH.... right?

Brett, I am going with an isuzu 12bolt with disc brakes, 4.56's and welded.... thought you might appreciate the whole japanise rear end thing....
i've never ran with a welded front, but I have accidentally left my ARB locked before (same thing, essentially a spool). IT SUCKED!!! Save $200 and get an Aussie locker, until then, leave it alone.

rotate the knuckles, it will just take a bunch of grinding and a RBFH (the R stands for REALLY) then a good hot welder.

[mississippi_xj]

cool... thanks for the input man.

[SimpleXJ]

Hi guys. I'm planning on swapping my MJ to leaves up front and I dug up this thread in a search. I only plan to run 33's and 4.5-5" of lift over stock. Could I go SUA up front and be able to skip the hi-steer? If so what is the availablity for 5" SUA leaves for the front?

Current setup is ford 8.8 SOA rear, and D30 front with 3" springs and 2" spacers. I'd like to keep the D30 up front until I find a d44 that's the right width to go with the 8.8

Thanks!

[xjaddiction]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/MJADDICTION/mjtan/100_1712.jpg


I've been driving my set-up for a couple of months, with one off-road trip. Off-road the set-up works very well. I like the leaves better than the coiled 4 link I had on the XJ. On the road the leaves are soft and the ride is excellent... Steering on the other hand is NO FUN.

I have the Waggy "Y" set up with a serious "Z" bent drag link. i have a ZJ TRE from pitman, and the link to the Waggy Drag-link. So full steering isn't a problem. i also have a XJ pit-man arm. I also have a Sky Jacker steering-stabilizer.

The problem, as BrettM stated above is the dead spot in the steering, and the bump steer. While not impossible to steer, you'll be driving the thing with utmost concentration. I'd say that it's a bit SPOOKY.

The fix, just like th others have stated, is to go either partial high-steer, or all the way. I'm going all the way with the high-steer. I have a friend who'll make the Tie-rod and drag link.

I've got; Chevy flat top knuckles rom a K-5, I have access to everything neccessary to ream knuckles. I'm going to use Chevy 1-Ton TRE's. I need high steer arms

QUESTION; Who should I use for the high steer arms? Will I need a spacer and what size? Can I use the high-steer arms with the built in spacer and 10* angle built in?

[SimpleXJ]

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but is yours setup on a d30? I can't tell from the pic because of my laptop screen. Also, what do you mean by waggy "Y" setup?


Has anyone done a leaf sprung D30 SUA? Just wondering if that'll get around the steering issue with the d30. I'm only looking for 5" of lift tops.

Thanks

[xjaddiction]

No, that's a Waggy dana 44.The Waggy is short for Grand Wagoneer. I used the steering "y" link from it. that includes the Drag link that bolts to the Tie-rod, hence the "Y".

[SimpleXJ]

No, that's a Waggy dana 44.The Waggy is short for Grand Wagoneer. I used the steering "y" link from it. that includes the Drag link that bolts to the Tie-rod, hence the "Y".


Ok, I get it now. Thanks for clearing that up :D
I'd love to have a d44 up front, but that means I'd have to ditch the 8.8 I just put in. How wide is that waggy d44? It's full size isn't it? And it'll be different bolt pattern than the 8.8 right?


Thanks again

[xjaddiction]

The axles I got were out of an '86 grand waggoneer. They are both D-44's front driver's side drop, and rear is centered. The width of the front axle is 61 1/2"es, which I think is about the same width as stock. The "full-width" axles you will hear about are the Ford truck D-44's.

The bolt pattern of the Waggy 44's are 6 lug on 5.5, just like Chevy's, Yota's, and Isuzu's. The ford D-44's are 5 on 5.5, also not the 5 on 4.5 you have on the 8.8.

I bought both Waggy D-44's for less than $140, at a local pull-apart. I spent another $750 at Randy's ring and pinion getting 5:13 gears, lock-rite for the front, and a full spool for the rear.


If I were you, I would decide what kind of wheelin' your doing, what size tires your going to run, and get the appropriate axles. You can go with full width's Ford D-44 HP (high pinion) front and a rear 9" or a D-60 for lots of West Coast rock crawlin strength. Or as I did with the D-44's from a waggy for South East slick (slippery rock) mud, on some 38's, and sell that 8.8. Put the money into your next set of axles.


here is some meaningfull info for your quest as steering will be an issue too, might as well do it right from the start;

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/Steering/Steering_Research/steeringresearch.htm



http://77cj.littlekeylime.com/flatop_knucles.html

[BrettM]

QUESTION; Who should I use for the high steer arms? Will I need a spacer and what size? Can I use the high-steer arms with the built in spacer and 10* angle built in?

I would recommend the PartsMike (www.partsmikeparts.com) arms. They have a pretty short balljoint to TRE distance which you will need to get full steering without going to a longer pitman arm. They also have the 10* correction which is good. I'm not a big fan of spacers, but if you need more height to clear the leaf springs his super arms are taller.

[SimpleXJ]

XJAddiction: Thanks! I had no idea waggy axles are close to stock width. I actually know where a waggy sits that I can have for free. Don't know what it's got 'til I get there though. I'll just stick the 8.8 under my XJ. You just solved all my problems :D :D :D :D Thank You!!!

[davidt]

why do you want to go with leafs in the front, you can buy a short arm kit on the cheap untill you decide to go bigger. The only reason I did the swap was to get a d44 in the front, otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time...My advice, learn to wheel on something small, then if it isn't enough, go bigger.

[xjaddiction]

Thanks, Brett.

Simple XJ, I used Wrangler (YJ) 4" lift leaves up front, giving me about 8"es of lift. These leaves were used, so I'm sure some settling had occurred. Make a cross member up front to attatch the leaves, I used the bumper. A friend of mine just made a cross-member for the leaf conversion. I'll get some pics when I can. He may even be selling them soon.

[davidt]

oh yeah if you do crossover, get a real tierod, check out what happens when you don't :crazy:
http://www.reno4x4.com//gallery/files/3/Moonrocks10-1-05002.jpg
http://www.reno4x4.com//gallery/files/3/Moonrocks10-1-05001.jpg
I am going to make one out of .250 wall DOM, hopefully it will fix the problem. As far as a cross member goes, check out my leafspring thread, I have some good pictures of what I did.

[rust bucket xj]

Think these will be the first pics i ever posted of my xj on naxja.

Eh, Its no longer red.

I did the leaf swap, i love it, too bad the po dont like it because. Rides 100x better on the street, and handles slightly better too even with the steep draglink angle. Wheels great as well. I need to get some .75 hd xj shackles (maybe i'll just make some .25" plate shackles.

Anyway i made a bumper xmember from 3x4 .25" wall rect tubing, held onto the unibody with 14 bolts. Still need to beef the rear mounts as i'm using the stock lca mounts. Used waggy 7 leaf packs, and stock dak shackles (.75" xj shackles). Gave me bout 8" in the front. Did crossover needs some tlc yet, gonna put slightly less tall spring perches on, and convert the waggy 44 to 5x5.5 wiht 1" spacers to give a little bit more width and use 2" rear spacrs on the 8.8 that adapt to 5x4.5

Oh and maybe some matching front wheels with matching bs for a change...

on rollers after the paint job
http://www.xjfanatic.com/images/heep05.jpg
somebody wanted a pic with approach angle.
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch081205-63.jpg
doesnt seem to bug me too much, more so i forget i cant bang them like towhooks
but yeah its not bad
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch081205-46.jpg
seems more stable too
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch081205-21.jpg
seems to flex ok
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch080605-28.jpg
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch080605-29.jpg
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch080605-33.jpg
http://www.xjfanatic.com/trail/rausch080605-26.jpg

[BrettM]

i forget i cant bang them like towhooks


get some double military wrapped BDS springs with lifetime no questions asked warranty, then you can bang them like towhooks.

[NXJ]

get some double military wrapped BDS springs with lifetime no questions asked warranty, then you can bang them like towhooks.

Where ? Link ? More !

[BrettM]

http://www.bds-suspension.com/

mine were under $70 each (3.5" YJs) but I got them down the street from the factory.

[THRASHER]

I am going to run 44044's on the xj I am building up now, for those who are running these springs up front, are you taking any leafs out of the pack? I was running stock waggys w/ and got around 7in, am hoping for around 9in with the 44044's, but would like them to flex as much as possible

Kevin

[mmmkay325]

for you guys runnin' bds's yj 3.5 what type of shackle are you runnin' in the front?

[BrettM]

mine is off a Chevy, it's basically the same as an MJ shackle, but my friend had them lying around.

[mississippi_xj]

crossover looks the way to go... i have found a set of machined knuckles. are you guys having to run them with spacers? or will a regular knuckle do the job?

it looks like I am back on track with the project... well mostly :)

how are you guys finding the manners on the road? i figure that the ride quality should be good. how is body role? are you finding that a sway bar should be used? I am going to sell my car to help finance this so the xj is going to be my dd. just trying to do it right the first time.

[BrettM]

crossover looks the way to go... i have found a set of machined knuckles. are you guys having to run them with spacers? or will a regular knuckle do the job?

it looks like I am back on track with the project... well mostly :)

how are you guys finding the manners on the road? i figure that the ride quality should be good. how is body role? are you finding that a sway bar should be used? I am going to sell my car to help finance this so the xj is going to be my dd. just trying to do it right the first time.
I don't have a spacer on my crossover, just the shorter PartsMike arm, though very occasionally the draglink hits the leaf. Get a taller 1.5" arm like PartsMike's Super Arm and it will be perfect.

the road manners are very good, much better than the 3", 4" or 5.5" short arm coil lifts that I've had before, but not as good as longarms or drop brackets and coils. No swaybar is needed for me because of the stiffer springs and interleaf friction.

[THRASHER]

I got my front axle on the new jeep last night...still need to hook up the steering and brake lines, really need to do some trimming also, here are some pics, used a c-rok bumper mount kit/some .25in to make the crossmemeber


http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/THRASHER/142830.jpg

http://offroadworld.tenmagazines.com/gallery/THRASHER/142840.jpg

Kevin

[mmmkay325]

did you make those hangers on the front crossmember or did you order them? I like those

[HTeK]

I finally got this done. I am pretty happy with it so far. On to the details, and LOTS of pics... To help the dial-upers they are all thumbnailed - click for the larger image obviously.

Also, I am a rookie fabber (hence doing the leafs) so feel free to make fun of my fabwork.


Out with the old:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4596/017ju.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=017ju.jpg)


Beginning the mockup for the front crossmember attachments:
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8020/029nt.th.jpg (http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=029nt.jpg)

For the passenger side, I drilled and welded in some tubing to keep from crushing the rail. I felt it wasn't necessary to use 3 bolts or to match the bolt locations of the driver side.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/876/032wu.th.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=032wu.jpg)

I basically stole the patented BrettM design by using 4x4x1/4 angle. The side and bottom peices are 1/4" plate. A little heat from the torch and the bottom peice bent like butter to properly catch the factory sway bar holes.
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/3558/041km1.th.jpg (http://img104.imageshack.us/my.php?image=041km1.jpg)

I pulled it off, welded it, and ground a radius between the side and bottom plates to make it look clean. I did kinda screw up here, notice that I left the 4x4 angle about a 1/4" wider than the side plates. I thought I needed this extra width for the front shackle mounts. As it turns out, I didn't. Had I flushed it all up, it would have looked a heck of a lot nicer.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/4586/050da.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=050da.jpg)

This was the first mockup attempt. Note, those are Rubicon Express 2.5" Extreme Duty (RE1432) mil-wrapped springs. Also, the original plan was to just use the factory LCA mount. However, notice that I whacked those off and made my own. At this point though, I was cursing myself because my mounts are basically in the stock LCA location. Nevertheless, I found that in this location, the axle was too far forward.
http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/8031/061so.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=061so.jpg)

After several additional mockup attempts, this is where the rear mount ended up. My mounts were made out of 3.5" by 1/4" wall square tubing. Also, before I started on the front end I plated the frame rails with angle iron, I feel this proved key to making sure my rear mounts were solid. To add additional strength to the rear mount, I cut up some of that 4x4 angle, tied it to the frame rail angle and wrapped it around the mount.
http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/1411/074wr.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=074wr.jpg)

To further strengthen the rear mount, I wanted to gusset it out. This also gave the mount a bit of a ramp to hopefully avoid getting hung up. The guesset is made out of 1/4" plate and was tied into the mount made out of box. After welding, it was ground and now looks as if it was all one peice.
http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/8553/081lb.th.jpg (http://img103.imageshack.us/my.php?image=081lb.jpg)

With the rear mounts done, I moved on to finalizing the shackle mounts to hang off the front x-member.
http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/5150/095ke.th.jpg (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=095ke.jpg)

Rear mounts painted up:
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/395/107vi.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=107vi.jpg)

Front mounts and x-member painted up. I used stock length (4" i think) YJ shackles from RE.
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/1208/110sb.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=110sb.jpg)

With the springs in place, I moved to the axle. Of course, cutting and turning the knuckles. It really wasnt that hard. What worked quite well for me was a combination between a grinding wheel and a cut-off wheel. They were re-welded at about 4 degrees,
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/9194/125ae.th.jpg (http://img130.imageshack.us/my.php?image=125ae.jpg)

I wont go into detail about the spring perches, its easy enough. I got mopar d44 perches. For the driver side, I set the perch on the tube next to the cast ridge, drew a line and torched them out (if that makes sense). That way both of the perches sit at the same height. Of course, proper pre and post heat is absolutely key to making it stick on the cast side. Here is everything bolted up. A very small amount of grinding was done to fit the ubolt on that one side. Also, at this point the front x-member is completely bolted off with grade 8 and metric 8.8 hardware. 17 bolts total hold the front x-member onto the jeep.
http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4633/134yp.th.jpg (http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?image=134yp.jpg)

Its past my bedtime, so I will discuss steering and what I had to do about shocks later. But, this is how it came out. It sits level with rubicon 4.5" springs + 1.75" shackle in the back.
http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/7466/done0ag.th.gif (http://img63.imageshack.us/my.php?image=done0ag.gif)

-justin

[mississippi_xj]

Looks good!

[HTeK]

I got a PM a few weeks ago asking about how i did my steering. So, I figured I would show how I dealt with it. For those not paying attention, this is for the black jeep above :dunce:

And before I get started, I would like to give props to WFO Concepts (http://wfoconcepts.com/) for making my steering happen with ease. While they are local to me, I highly recommend them for those of you who may have to order stuff online.

On to the details... I picked up a pair of flattop knuckles off a J-10 (or 20, i dont remember) at the local pick n' pull. $15 bucks, thank you very much :D. I had WFO machine them for me, I beleive it was $65 a side if I remember correctly. And actually, they just swapped me for a pair they already had machined, I just walked in and out in 5 minutes. The high steer arms are Parts Mike (http://partsmikeparts.com/Arm3Pic.htm) super arms.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/5799/steering21ua.jpg

The tie rod and drag link are 1 1/4" x .219 DOM. From the time I called to place order Trevor @ WFO had them cut, machined, drilled, tapped, and ready to pick up in less than 2 hours. They are designed to accept chevy 7/8" rod ends. If your not familiar with this setup, the drag link intersects and connects the tie rod's TRE in a hole that was originally designed to be used as a steering stabalizer mount on chevy's. Of course, this hole is reamed out to the appropriate size to accept the TRE off the draglink. Click HERE (http://partsmikeparts.com/tre_kit.htm) for a better picture of the TRE setup. To use these chevy TRE's, your pitman arm needs to be reamed out to the appropriate size. When I picked up my Tie Rod and Drag Link, Trevor once again made my life easy and reamed out my pitman arm in a matter of minutes at NO charge. I was worried about whether or not I would get full steer out of my stock pitman arm - and I do, everything works great.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6048/steering36un.jpg

And the finished goods. With everything this high up, hopefully I won't have any problems bending Tie Rods.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7317/steering15mj.jpg

After I got my steering put together, I needed a steering stabalizer. And since I had everything installed and painted, i didn't really feel like going and welding tabs on my new tie rod. Luckily, I managed to peice something together that was SUPER simple, quick, and nearly free (minus the new $34 stabalizer of course). When I got my axle, it cam with the old steering stabalizer mounts. I took the two mounts and hacked em up to make it all work. For this end, I just trimmed off on side of the mount, enlarged the 4 holes, and procured some Dana60 sized u-joint straps. Bingo, it all bolts together perfect.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/1615/steering43ey.jpg

For the opposite end, I once again used the stock mount. For this one, I simply had to enlarge two of the three holes and bolt it all down.
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/793/steering55mx.jpg

And in under an hour, you have a slick stabalizer mount that is tucked up behind the Tie Rod.
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3768/steering69tv.jpg


-Justin

[xjj33p3r]

Did the stabilizer really help at all?

[BrettM]

I have full steering on flat ground, but stuff the right tire and you loose left steer, stuff the left tire and you loose right steer. JC Whitney has a Ford/Waggy drop pitman for $55 that should do the trick if you later choose.

[HTeK]

Did the stabilizer really help at all?

It helped a lot. Although, I did a shade tree alignment and I believe its still toe'd out a little. Thus causing the rig to want to follow every bump in the road. So the stabalizer helped quite a bit in this sense.

We will see how she handles when its toe'd in just slightly, perhaps (and my hope is) that the steering stabalizer will become a moot point.

I have full steering on flat ground, but stuff the right tire and you loose left steer, stuff the left tire and you loose right steer. JC Whitney has a Ford/Waggy drop pitman for $55 that should do the trick if you later choose.

I will keep on eye on this the next time I am out.

[creeperjeep]

Brett, Any updates on the rig, or the 4link rear?
I think my XJ will be your MJs twin.
Doing alot of research into the leafed front, linked rear.

I look at myself crazy for switching the suspension 180 degrees

[BrettM]

I did a wishbone 3 link in the rear. I'm very happy with it. I still like the leafs in front. Once again, I've never claimed them to be ideal, but the stability and simplicity are great, and the little bit of axle-wrap preventing shock loading may have helped my Spicer shafts survive in JV.

there's some pictures in the link in my sig, and here:http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=57450

don't look at it as switching the suspension 180 degrees; look at your Jeep as a blank canvas and go from there.

[wrecked]

I hate to dig up old threads, but more so I know better than to ask without searching. I've read this thread many time in the past and I figure I ought to post my question here for those that have done the conversion and maybe as help to those who will do it in the future.

Got a little motivation sitting on my patio that I need to get under my jeep. First I need to figure out my leaf springs. HP44 out of an F250 and a FFD60 out of the same rig.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/wrecked/jeep%20buildup/11-21-06axles.jpg

I'm stuck on what springs to use. I have a set of stock XJ, a set of 2" OME XJ, one set of 4.5" RE XJ, one set of stock waggy and I have access to a couple toyota front and rear leaf packs. Picking up some YJ wouldn't be hard either.
I'm looking for right around 5" of lift. I'll be running a 37 or 38" tire. Waggy springs sound like they will put me a bit too high. Maybe pulling a leaf would get me where I want to be. I obviously have a bundle of leafs I can pull apart and package something up, but I'm looking to keep it flexy, stable(XJ mains look to be out of the question without a trackbar) and low.
Waggy, Toy or YJ mains?

I see alot of the shackles being mounted at somewhat steep angle and preventing a bit of approach angle. I slopped together a couple second sketch of what I was thinking of doing. I'd like to hear a little feedback.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v179/wrecked/jeep%20buildup/frontsuspension.jpg

The shackle would be mounted to a crossmember on the backside of the jeep. I know the framerails are going to block some space, but inboarding them slightly inside the framerails wouldn't be too bad, or I could mount the shackle right under the frame or just sleeve(in addition to the plating) the frame and put the shackle there.
I figure this will give me the down travel I want and a bit of up travel as well. I'm looking at keeping this low so I'm thinking a max of 3-4" of up travel.
It would also allow me to keep a decent approach angle.
Please keep in mind this is just a rought sketch, nothing was measured, I'm just brinstorming a looking for a few suggestions. Thanks.

-Kevin

[BrettM]

if you build a crossmember for the back end, are you going to use a 2 piece driveshaft?

[wrecked]

I hadn't planned on it. I also hadn't really planned on building a cross member for the rear attachment points. Which I supposed would mean that I would have to mount my leaves directly under my frame rails. It looks like you mounted yours under the frame rails. Of course I could catch a rock that way, but I'm really not too concerned, my last setup had rock anchors on it.

I'm a little bit weary as far as the shackle angle goes. I want down travel, and not quite so much up(mostly just to keep it low) and it seems with the shackle angle I sketch climping is going to try to decompress the suspension more than a shackle with a more verticle angle.

On the waggy, YJ and Toy springs, you are reffering to the front springs out of each of those vehicles correct?

-Kevin

[yellowxj]

I used 2.5" yj springs on the front of mine with 36" swampers...no bumpstops and the tires could hit hard enough in the wheel well to stop me...I wouldnt worry so much about the front shackles. I can only think of a couple times in 2 years that mine hit something first. 4" yj springs left plenty of clearance but still flexed enough to hit the cut front fenders.


how about a slider up front instead of a shackle? seen that before? looks like more maintenence than a shackle

[wrecked]

I used 2.5" yj springs on the front of mine with 36" swampers...no bumpstops and the tires could hit hard enough in the wheel well to stop me...I wouldnt worry so much about the front shackles. I can only think of a couple times in 2 years that mine hit something first. 4" yj springs left plenty of clearance but still flexed enough to hit the cut front fenders.


how about a slider up front instead of a shackle? seen that before? looks like more maintenence than a shackle

I want to keep it low. Using a 3.5" YJ spring as Brett said would likely net around 7-8" of lift. Thats 2-3" too high. I have a 2dr that I will be removing a bit of sheet metal from, possibly even retubbing the inside. My last rig has 7" of lift and full widths and while stable, I wished it were lower in many situations.

My problem with the shackle was just that when you get to those times when you have to bump your front end over things, I'd like to hit either my bumper of my tires and not so much the shackle or the srpings, which is why I drew it tucked up behind the bumper.
I suppose with the shackle being where it is a 3.5" leaf on my setup probably wont produce the same lift as on something similar to what others are running.

-Kevin

[HTeK]

Is your drawing above meant to represent full compression or ride height?

Maybe im just a simpleton, but if your drawing represents ride height, then I dont think your shackle idea will work.

My reasoning:
As a leaf spring compresses the physical eye to eye length of the spring gets longer. Hence the need for a shackle in the first place - it allows the physical length of the spring to vary. Of course the opposite is true under a droop condition.

Based on your drawing above, your shackle will not allow your leaf spring to compress because it cant get any "longer". You will only have droop.

Shackles were designed to be mounted at a steep angle, it's just that simple.

If your that hard up to limit the loss of approach angle then you may consider a shackle reversal. Although this may not solve your problem if you have to build a drop hanger... yada yada....

-jm

[wrecked]

I see your point as far as the angle being too extreme. I hadn't thought too deeply about that part either. Thanks for catching my error. I could however, easily change that and create an angle that allows the spring to compress.

TNT U bolt Eliminators... Any downsides to using them on my front axle? I'll be ordering a set for the rear and could easily pic one up for the front at the same time. I can't see any downsides to it, but then again I'm not always a clear thinker.

-Kevin

[HTeK]

TNT U bolt Eliminators... Any downsides to using them on my front axle? I'll be ordering a set for the rear and could easily pic one up for the front at the same time. I can't see any downsides to it, but then again I'm not always a clear thinker.


For me personally, I would see two downsides:
1. cost - more expensive than perches, u-bolts, and spring plates
2. Peace of mind... If the welds on my spring perches let loose I still have 5/8" u-bolts keeping things from going to hell (at least short term).

-jm

[ashmanjeepxj]

I hadn't planned on it. I also hadn't really planned on building a cross member for the rear attachment points. Which I supposed would mean that I would have to mount my leaves directly under my frame rails. It looks like you mounted yours under the frame rails. Of course I could catch a rock that way, but I'm really not too concerned, my last setup had rock anchors on it.

I'm a little bit weary as far as the shackle angle goes. I want down travel, and not quite so much up(mostly just to keep it low) and it seems with the shackle angle I sketch climping is going to try to decompress the suspension more than a shackle with a more verticle angle.

On the waggy, YJ and Toy springs, you are reffering to the front springs out of each of those vehicles correct?

-Kevin

I broke alot of main leafs, and now I dont run font leaf springs.. If I did leaf springs again Id try for shackle in back, with a short shackle, its more reliable from my experience, then shackle in front. you will get mroe brake dive and need a longer slip drive shaft with shackle in back but it will be more reliable.

When doing my front links I notched the frame for my upper links, you could do that but make it the hanger for the rear shackle. you would need to run an axle shim but I think it would work great. I havent seen anyone try it yet..

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_000_0002_108.jpg

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_000_0003_610.jpg

http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_000_0003_186.jpg

[wrecked]

Thats actually quite interesting. How is the shackle in the rear more reliable? You mentioned that it would have more brake dive and would require a long slip shaft on my front drive shaft, I'm not quite understanding how the shackle in the rear is more reliable?

I can see the front suspension compressing when trying to climb an obstacle(like a wall) with a rear shackle. Where as a front would try to decompress.
Little bit confused which way to go.

-Kevin

[ashmanjeepxj]

Thats actually quite interesting. How is the shackle in the rear more reliable? You mentioned that it would have more brake dive and would require a long slip shaft on my front drive shaft, I'm not quite understanding how the shackle in the rear is more reliable?

I can see the front suspension compressing when trying to climb an obstacle(like a wall) with a rear shackle. Where as a front would try to decompress.
Little bit confused which way to go.
-Kevin

This is what happens.
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/thumbs/t_100_1670_598.jpg

When going down a steep hill or hitting something at speed the axle pushes back and the shackle allows it to more back and bend the rear section of hte main leaf. check out this viedo of the little hill I wnt down that bent that main leaf. Not a worthy obsticle to cause carage...
VIDEO DOWN KISSING ROCK, BENDS THE LEAF (http://wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=6026)
VIDEO UP KISSING ROCK (http://wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=6024)
VIDEO UP "local" DUMP BUMP WITH BENT LEAF (http://wheelingarizona.com/forums/download.php?id=6030)

With the shackle in front the axle pulls on the front spring hanger rather then pushing. more reliable.


With the shackle in back as the axle drops the shackle swings forward further from the T-case so you need a longer then stock slip drive shaft or a center limit strap. With shackle in front the shackle will swing back twards the t-case on down travel so a stock drive shaft could be used.

Toyotas are stock with shackle in back and have a normal slip drive shaft but you but somen flexyspring on it and you quicly will over extend the shaft. Square drive shafts are a common cheap fix. Ive run square shafts front or rear, it works but its noisey and has soem binding, but for free...its an option.

[xtrflexj]

I just bought a set of stock cj 2" wide 41" long eye to eye leafs off ebay should i put them under my front or get somthing else. I want around 8" but dont wanna spend the money on getting new ones

[xtrflexj]

Also when test fitting should the front shackles be vertical when loaded?

[xj_man_646]

Here is a link to my buildup thread.

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=910449

[HTeK]

I just bought a set of stock cj 2" wide 41" long eye to eye leafs off ebay should i put them under my front or get somthing else. I want around 8" but dont wanna spend the money on getting new ones

I have no idea if they will get you 8" of lift or not... but I am inclined to say no. 2" wide springs aren't the best route to go either. So, the short answer is get something else. Re-read this thread and pay attention to the springs everyone else is using and the estimated lift height they received. You should easily be able to determine what you need for ~8". I could tell you the answer, but I get the impression that you should read all 11 pages of this thread...


Also when test fitting should the front shackles be vertical when loaded?

No. The angle should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 or 40 degrees. I think you need to take some time and understand how a leaf sprung suspension works before you tackle this project. I can tell you how to put together a decent leaf sprung front suspension... but then your not learning anything are you? My advice is to go figure out why you should run a 2.5" inch wide spring as opposed to a 2"... and why your shackle should have an angle instead of being vertical. Take your time to understand what your doing... it will turn out much better that way.

-Justin

[xtrflexj]

Well Justin i bought the leafs off ebay and they are souposed to be the 2.5" rear which i intended on using so i mocked up the mounts with the 2" ones. Yes i know how a leaf susp works, with the 2" if i where to use they would wrap side to side and and would track all over the place. also be weak as hell. and as far as the angle goes on the shackle they should sit forward so they can not extend past there vertical point while driving or hitting small bumps. I just need needed to know the degree which you stated so now i think im set. Thanks for all your help oh yea i bought front narrow trac wagonner 2.5" 9pack leafs ill keep you posted on the pics!

[bigsky89]

hey guys, i read through a lot of this thread and its really helpful. im doing this mod mid to late summer hopefully, and i was wondering what kind of front lift ill get from 3" lift rear packs for an XJ, if they could be used for the front, and what if anything needs to be done to the steering and such.

[ashmanjeepxj]

hey guys, i read through a lot of this thread and its really helpful. im doing this mod mid to late summer hopefully, and i was wondering what kind of front lift ill get from 3" lift rear packs for an XJ, if they could be used for the front, and what if anything needs to be done to the steering and such.

Dont put Xj Main leafs on the front get a shoreter mil-wraped leafs for the front. The main leafs can not support that much weight..

Xj main leaf mixed pack on the front of my XJ, back in 2003...
http://www.wheelingarizona.com/forums/files/IMG_0417.jpg

[bigsky89]

whast a good leaf spring to get? as in out of what vehicle?

[ashmanjeepxj]

whast a good leaf spring to get? as in out of what vehicle?

I had good luck with 80s toyota truck rear main leafs, they are mil wraped, common and most guys I wheel with have toyotas so spares are easy to find.

A YJ aftermarket Mil wraped leaf would be good. An aftermarket Wagoneer Mil wraped leaf would be good.

If you do shackle in back you will use the mil wraped leaf correctly and the life of the setup will be great. Shackle in front bends main leafs no matter what. I would never do shackle in front again.

[white_elephant]

i need 9 inches of lift..and i was wondering which combo of shackle and leafspring will give me this much lift..thanks

[rocklandxjer]

you NEED it? you running full widths? and what sized tires?
9" on leaves is asking for trouble...

[white_elephant]

all you just said i have it..im running 36s...and im doing my xmember...all im asking....its what leafspring and shackle do i need to get this...im also doing reversal shaclke so there is no sackle in the front....

[DraVen]

im running yj front axle.. so what leafs sholud i run so i can clear and flex 33"s

[HTeK]

im running yj front axle.. so what leafs sholud i run so i can clear and flex 33"s

YJ axle as in a stock YJ axle? If yes, then... well.... im not even going to ask.

RE 2.5 YJ springs gave me enough for 35's. You might start with stock YJ springs (sprung over of course)...

-jm



but why?????

[DraVen]

the yj axles were free to me so thats why for now... so RE yj 2.5 leafs for the front... and what re xj 2.5's for the rear?... to be even?

[xjaddiction]

lift wil depend on your front shackle mount placement. I have 4" YJ leaf springs OTA with Confer 2.5" shackles. I have about 10"es of lift with waggy axles, and 2"es of bs. I also have fenders trimmed about 4"es with some TJ flares, and riding on 38 TSL SX's.

[HTeK]

the yj axles were free to me so thats why for now... so RE yj 2.5 leafs for the front... and what re xj 2.5's for the rear?... to be even?

RE1444 Springs + stock length shackle in the front
RE1463 Springs + 1.75" lift shackle in the back

That will get you level and enough height for 33's assuming your mounts are exactly like mine. But thats just the problem, when doing custom bracketry up front, its impossible to tell you if its going to sit level.

I did the RE 2.5" YJ's + stock shackle up front and the XJ 4.5" + 1.75" shackles and I somehow came out perfectly level. You need to understand that its a guessing game and not an exact science, there are simply too many variables.

I just have to ask, are these stock YJ axles, or at least built stock yj axles? I fear your going in the wrong direction with your build...

-jm