D44 from a different vehicle. Questions!

Folks, I might be able to get a rear Dana 44 from another truck, which I would like to use on my XJ.

The donnor truck has a coil spring rear suspension, four link arms and a track bar. It also has disk brakes and is using 4.56:1 gears, which is exactly what I want to use with my Cherokee. My questions are:

1. How difficult would it be to adapt this axle to a springs suspension, like we have on the XJ? From a first look, there seem to be some perches there already, although I am not sure if they are at the proper distance for the XJ, or if they have the proper dimensions (width) to take XJ springs.
2. The donnor truck is using 6x5.5" wheels. Can I adapt the axle to use the pattern our axle uses (5x4.5" I think)?
3. Would the rear disk brakes function with my 1984 XJ setup? The donnor truck has already a pressure adjusting valve, but I am not sure if I can use it on the XJ, as it is mounted in a wierd spot on the frame.
4. Any other things I should be aware of?

As you understand, this is a very difficult project for me, since I live in a country where there are no specialized shops to deal with such things, so I should have all the details beforehand, in order to guide the people who will do it.

One more question. The donnor truck, is equipped with a front Dana 30 diff, but independent suspension. Is there any site, where I can check what sort of Dana 30 is used there? The reason I am asking, is because I was thinking that I might take the gears from that Dana 30 and install it in my Cherokee's D30, but as far as I know, the XJ's one is reverse cut. I have no idea what the other is, all I know is that it is a D30 diff, but used in an independent suspension system.

Many thanks for your time

Rgds

First Question. how did you put Dual Weber Carbs on your 2.5L? I have a 84 also and would love to hear more about that.

What type of vehical did the D44 come from? How wide is the Axle? The xj's are around 58"

The spring perches are about 46" apart end to end.
Some more info about the doner axle would be more helpful.
Like: width, width of spring perches and the location of the shock mounts. It might be no more difficult to switch to a coil sprung rear. But that is unlikely.

Basically you will need to remove what is there and have perches and shock mounts attached at the proper locations. As for the brakes and wheel patern it all depends on what the axel came out of. Some axles like the 9" ford have the ability to be put just about any where bc of the large number of people useing them. (Read Dragsters here!)

That is my take on it but I'm sure some of the others with more experience on this will chime in! Especially if you can get more info!

scouts are 58"

xj's are closer to 61.25"......

With your 84 master cylinder and booster, you won't be too impressed with those disc brakes. You can change your MC to a E350 (1 ton Ford van) MC with very little modification and that would help. Or you can look into MC and booster from a 96 or later XJ. You don't necessarily need a proportioning valve but they aren't too expensive and if you know what you are doing, you'll love it. We definitely need to know what truck that axle came out of to be able to help more. Either cutting off all the coil and control arm brackets and welding on leaf-spring perches, or going to a coiled rear in your XJ will be a big task. Can you weld? Depending on what it came out of, you might be able to have a shop redrill your rotors and axle shafts for 5 on 4.5 but I've never liked that idea. Not all XJ D30s are reverse cut. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here but if it a high pinion then it is a RC but if it is a low pinion, it is a standard cut. Give us as much info as possible on the axle and the truck itself. Good luck.

OK folks, you asked for it, you got it.

The reason I was so vague about the donnor vehicle, is because I am almost sure that most of you have never seen one. If you care to look into my signature, there are two trucks there, the one being the XJ, the other being a Daewoo (or Ssang Yong) Musso. A friend has discovered another abandoned Musso (probably some part of it was consumed by fire), in a field he owns, so it is mine to grab whatever I want, from whatever there is left in it.

Below, I have posted some pictures I took from my Musso.



Here you can see the whole axle, as it sits underneath Musso.


Here you can see something that looks llike a possible spring perch, to the left of the coil spring.


The mounts pointed by arrows, will obviously have to be removed.


Here you can see some more fixtures on the left side of the axle, as we look from the rear of the truck.



Obviously the shock mount will have to be moved elsewhere, if that thing I consider to be a perch, is one.

To answer some of your questions:

- No, I have no welding experience, I consider having a shop do it for me.

- How can I find out what my front XJ axle is? I mean the project became attractive, because I could have one full Dana 44, geared properly for my XJ, and the gears from the front D30 come as an additional bonus. If they do not fit, it is not a big deal, but I sure would like to know.

- So if I measure the perches (end to end) it should be about 46" apart and the whole axle should be around 61.25"?

- Not Dual Webers, Dual Barrel Weber. If Ghost needs more info on that, I can give you, although it is a very common upgrade.

Keep the ideas coming guys, the more I think about this project, the more I like it. I hope I'll visit the donnor vehicle some time during this weekend, to see what can be salvaged.

Many thanks for taking the time to come back to me, sincerely appreciated.

Rgds

wild ass guess.......

reminds me of the mitsu 44's.....

double check that thing.....make sure it isn't an aluminum center section.......

Beezil has a good point. Many foreign Dana 44s had aluminum center sections. I ran home no my lunchbreak and measured my old 8.25 rear axle that's laying in my backyard. These are rough measurements though, close but not exact. From wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (face of drum) my stock 8.25 is 60.5" wide. From center of spring perch to the center of the other spring perch is 43.5". If you are sticking with leaf springs, and you can cut off all the mounting brackets that are on that axle yourself, then it shouldn't cost too much to just have a shop weld on some leaf spring perches. The brake thing isn't that hard. There are plenty of different ways you can remedy that depending on what kind of pedal feel you like. I just know that many guys that do the ZJ disc conversion on XJs use an E350 MC with an 88 XJ booster. I hear it gives way more stopping power than you need but it takes a lot of pedal to get there. The biggest issue might be changing your bolt pattern. I know you can get moser shafts cut and splined to your exact application for around $100 per side but shipping overseas might kill ya. What size wheels do those trucks have, 15 or 16? What about pinion length and u-joint type. You may have to modify your driveshaft. I believe an 84 XJ would have a high pinion vacuum disconnect front Dana 30. If it is a low pinion, the pinion will be at the bottom of the diff. If it is a high pinion, it will be above the centerline of the axle tube. Compare that to the Musso's front. You might want to ask about this on www.pirate4x4.com. The guys there have tried just about everything. Let is know how is goes.

watson said:

Beezil has a good point. Many foreign Dana 44s had aluminum center sections.

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Well, I'll check that out, as soon as I remember where I have a magnet.

I ran home no my lunchbreak and measured my old 8.25 rear axle that's laying in my backyard. These are rough measurements though, close but not exact. From wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface (face of drum) my stock 8.25 is 60.5" wide. From center of spring perch to the center of the other spring perch is 43.5".

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Thanks, I appreciate it, I'll measure my truck's dimensions tomorrow morning.

If you are sticking with leaf springs, and you can cut off all the mounting brackets that are on that axle yourself, then it shouldn't cost too much to just have a shop weld on some leaf spring perches.

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That's what I was thinking to do. The difficult thing would be the relocation of the shock mounts, but I think the shop I have in mind can do it.

The brake thing isn't that hard. There are plenty of different ways you can remedy that depending on what kind of pedal feel you like. I just know that many guys that do the ZJ disc conversion on XJs use an E350 MC with an 88 XJ booster. I hear it gives way more stopping power than you need but it takes a lot of pedal to get there.

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Would it be too much to ask if you have the part numbers for those parts, the Ford Master Cylinder's and the XJ booster's? I would appreciate it, since I'll probably have to order them from USA.

The biggest issue might be changing your bolt pattern. I know you can get moser shafts cut and splined to your exact application for around $100 per side but shipping overseas might kill ya. What size wheels do those trucks have, 15 or 16?

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15" wheels, actually they are 15x7 with 6x5.5" pattern. If I can't economically change the D44 to 5x4.5" is it easier to change the XJ's front D30 to 6x5.5"? Oh do not worry about shipping overseas, if you didn't know, I am the one paying half the salaries of all DHL personel!! LOL! There is no way I can avoid importing things from US, for this project, so this is not my biggest concern at the moment, but if a D44 was installed on some XJs, are there some parts I can get from DC which would allow me to change the bolt pattern?

What about pinion length and u-joint type. You may have to modify your driveshaft. I believe an 84 XJ would have a high pinion vacuum disconnect front Dana 30. If it is a low pinion, the pinion will be at the bottom of the diff. If it is a high pinion, it will be above the centerline of the axle tube. Compare that to the Musso's front. You might want to ask about this on www.pirate4x4.com. The guys there have tried just about everything. Let is know how is goes.

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Let me see if I get that straight. If they are both high-pinion, does that mean they are the same diffs? Or can it be that one of them is a high-pinion but reverse cut and the other a high pinion normal cut? I thought that all XJs had high-pinion, reverse cut Dana 30 in the front, except those after 2000, which have a low pinion, standard cut D30.

Watson, many thanks for taking time off your lunch break to measure your axle, I appreciate it.

Rgds

If a shop can correctly set up spring perches, then shock mounts should be a no-brainer. The cool thing at that point is that you can set up pinion angle instead of using degree shims and you can also raise or lower your shock mounts to gain more travel or better ground clearance. I can get you those part numbers but unfortunately I can't do it until Monday. I am leaving in like 10 minutes to go out of town for the weekend. If you can wait until Monday, I'll do a little digging and get those numbers for ya though. The high-pinion, low-pinion thing I can never keep straight which XJ had which. My 93 is a HP and my buddy's 89 is a HP. I have heard from other people that all XJs have HPs but have also heard that sometime around 2K, they switched to LP. I dunno. I really can't tell you whether or not the carrier and R&P are the same in that Musso as the XJ. You're on your own there buddy. Good luck. I'll be back on Monday to see how it's going. Later.

watson said:

If a shop can correctly set up spring perches, then shock mounts should be a no-brainer. The cool thing at that point is that you can set up pinion angle instead of using degree shims and you can also raise or lower your shock mounts to gain more travel or better ground clearance. I can get you those part numbers but unfortunately I can't do it until Monday. I am leaving in like 10 minutes to go out of town for the weekend. If you can wait until Monday, I'll do a little digging and get those numbers for ya though. The high-pinion, low-pinion thing I can never keep straight which XJ had which. My 93 is a HP and my buddy's 89 is a HP. I have heard from other people that all XJs have HPs but have also heard that sometime around 2K, they switched to LP. I dunno. I really can't tell you whether or not the carrier and R&P are the same in that Musso as the XJ. You're on your own there buddy. Good luck. I'll be back on Monday to see how it's going. Later.

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Watson,

Many thanks, don't worry Monday is fine, I ain't going shopping for these parts over the weekend, especially since it is Easter weekend here, so enjoy and we 'll talk again later.

Rgds

this axle should be an all steel unit and uses 30 spline 1.31 axle shafts.....even uses same ARB's as us dana 44 rd06 and rd07...and the front axle is a dana 30 27 spline.....

xjnation said:

this axle should be an all steel unit and uses 30 spline 1.31 axle shafts.....even uses same ARB's as us dana 44 rd06 and rd07...and the front axle is a dana 30 27 spline.....

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A well-informed visitor! Thank you Sir, you are correct. Does that mean that the front ring and pinion will interchange?

By the way, I am just browsing your site. I'll e-mail you directly.

Tnx and Rgds

Got a link for ya. Didn't have time to check on part numbers yet. Sorry, actually been busy today at work. What kind of crap is that? Anyway. Check out this link. You should be able to get some good info here. There is a NAPA part # on that E350 MC in there somewhere. I didn't have time to read through it all again. Just did a search, found it, and cutting and pasting. Gotta get back to work now. I'll be back.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=124689&highlight=E350+brakes

That would depend on teh year of the xj...reverse rotation or standard....

By the way, I am just browsing your site. I'll e-mail you directly.

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"just browsing"????

hey, feel free to be a frequent visitor! Many of us find "outside the box' mods such as the one you are involved in, to be totally facinating. I'd be very interested in seeing pics of your project as it develops....

keep naxja.org bookmarked!

Beezil said:

"just browsing"????

hey, feel free to be a frequent visitor! Many of us find "outside the box' mods such as the one you are involved in, to be totally facinating. I'd be very interested in seeing pics of your project as it develops....

keep naxja.org bookmarked!

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I find them exhiting as well, the only problem is I do not live in USA, so I have nobody with experience to help me out here. So I have to rely on the various forums to collect information, and then I have to filter them to figure out what is useful and what is garbage (thank God, all I've got from is great info).

Rgds

What i'm saying is, you'd be a good "teacher"...Its cool to see mods that aren't possible int he states.

if you have a chance, post some pictures of your projects

Got some MC part #s for ya. Since you are overseas, I dunno if any of these will ship to you or not. If you want to try to find it yourself over there, this is for an 86 Ford E-350 1-ton van. I used a 351 as a motor choice. It matched the part number from the guy on pirate4x4 that did this brake conversion.

Autozone:
Fenco Remanufactured M2008 $18.99 + $20 core
Fenco New NM2008 $42.99

NAPA:
Tru-Stop Reman. TSM102008 $21.99+$13 core
Safety Stop New USS4739445 $37.99

Advance Auto:
A1 Cardone Reman 102008 $20.94 + $20 core
Bendix Reman R12008 $32.99 + $20 core
Bendix New 12008 $81.49

All these prices are from searching in Cincinnati, Ohio. Might be different where you are. Without a core, I'd go with the new Fenco one. I'm going to be doing this conversion in a couple weeks and this is the one I'll probably use. You can get a nice new proportioning valve from Wilwood for around $45 if you think you need it. Or you can try to use the one you have. I'll probably just split it 50/50 and see how that does.

I still don't know about that particular front 30 but I know that lockers from a CJ, XJ, MJ, TJ, and YJ are all interchangeable. Don't know about non Jeep vehicle D30s though. As Beezil said, keep us informed on this. It is always interesting to see what different parts people put on their rigs. I have had parts from ZJs, TJs, YJs, MJs, and CJs on my XJ and now have ford axles with chevy discs.

watson said:

Got some MC part #s for ya. Since you are overseas, I dunno if any of these will ship to you or not. If you want to try to find it yourself over there, this is for an 86 Ford E-350 1-ton van. I used a 351 as a motor choice. It matched the part number from the guy on pirate4x4 that did this brake conversion.

Autozone:
Fenco Remanufactured M2008 $18.99 + $20 core
Fenco New NM2008 $42.99

NAPA:
Tru-Stop Reman. TSM102008 $21.99+$13 core
Safety Stop New USS4739445 $37.99

Advance Auto:
A1 Cardone Reman 102008 $20.94 + $20 core
Bendix Reman R12008 $32.99 + $20 core
Bendix New 12008 $81.49

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Watson, what are these part numbers for? The brake master cylinder?

Would it be too much to ask you if you can find the part number for the '88 XJ brake booster? From what I read in the Pirate4x4 site, the 96 booster is even better, what do you think? If yes, can you get me this part number please?

What I've done, is I created a file with all the info people have supplied here, so that if I ever get the chance to start this project, I can collect the right parts and do the proper work.

I'll keep you all posted about the outcome. First, I have to get the chance to measure that Dana 44 and see if it fits width-wise and spring-perch-wise.

Sorry if I am asking things (like part numbers) which sound silly to you guys, but here, it means a day to go to the local DC headquarters and find those numbers. As for the Ford 350s they had never been imported here.

Many thanks and kind regards

Those were numbers for master cylinders.
I dunno what Jeep did with boosters. I searched part numbers for your 84, an 88, my 93, and the new style 96 and all four Jeeps have different booster part numbers. Even more if you take into account ABS. I did all non-ABS boosters. The part number for the 88 that the guys on pirate4x4 used is (autozone number 54-74071 and is $70 with core added), (NAPA NBB 5474071 and is $94 with core added), and (Advance Auto 5474071 and is $69 with core). I can't figure out where this guy paid $25 for the MC and only $10 for the booster. Maybe when I searched for the booster it had more parts than needed included. I'd probably try using the E350 MC with whatever booster you already have. Who knows, maybe your brakes will be able to power those discs on that axle. I'd do the swap first then figure out if you need to bump up your brakes. I'll be running 1/2 ton Chevy calipers so I know I need to do a MC upgrade. I know some people have done a bigger MC with the 96 and later style boosters. It can be done. That might be overkill though.