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It's getting hot, radiator upgrade or no?

xjblue

xjblue

NAXJA Member #496
NAXJA Member
Location
Utah
setting - 93 XJ sport 4.0 160Kmiles open cooling system, water pump recently replaced. I know it's a hot topic right now (pun intended) just looking for specific information.

symptoms - starting early this year began noticing small puddles of coolant on the driveway but very sporadic, once every couple of weeks or so and the temp always hovered a few degrees higher than it used to. seemed to be splurting from near top of the passenger side of radiator as a few drops would end up on the bumper. recent trips to Moab I noticed temps spiking high during steeper climbs whith rpm's in the 3k range (freeway speeds), turning on the heater helped keep it below red, offroading or stop and go it didn't spike. Last night after my short commute I noticed it got hot, this time I could smell coolant, got home and it was leaking again, I could see it bubbling and foaming out along a seam in the radiater near were the hose attaches on the passenger side. after it sat for a while I took the cap off to add coolant, as I did a green foam (like putting mint icecream in rootbeer) came up.

whats with the foam? I guess the rad is shot? From what I read, I know I should replace the following; fan clutch(parts store,compare size), tstat(stock 195*), hoses(dealer), rad cap(?), do a system flush(fill w/distilled water), check fan belt tension(krikit II NAPA), and may wire an override switch for aux fan, need 91 or newer writeup(?). Did I miss anything and is it worth it to upgrade to a 3 core rad? If so, whats good? how much? i've heard theres good and bad about GDI... TIA
 
I just did a 92XJ Laredo out at my buddies garage today, new water pump, testat, hoses and fan clutch. Boy that year is a PIA to work on, makes me love my 98 even more...Personally I would have done a rad to make it complete and I would have used OEM hoses, the replacement did not have the spring in it but he wanted to use it anyway...
I also am doing mine, have the hoses, ordered a Modine and an OEM fan clutch.
 
xjblue said:
setting - 93 XJ sport 4.0 160Kmiles open cooling system, water pump recently replaced. I know it's a hot topic right now (pun intended) just looking for specific information.

symptoms - starting early this year began noticing small puddles of coolant on the driveway but very sporadic, once every couple of weeks or so and the temp always hovered a few degrees higher than it used to. seemed to be splurting from near top of the passenger side of radiator as a few drops would end up on the bumper. recent trips to Moab I noticed temps spiking high during steeper climbs whith rpm's in the 3k range (freeway speeds), turning on the heater helped keep it below red, offroading or stop and go it didn't spike. Last night after my short commute I noticed it got hot, this time I could smell coolant, got home and it was leaking again, I could see it bubbling and foaming out along a seam in the radiater near were the hose attaches on the passenger side. after it sat for a while I took the cap off to add coolant, as I did a green foam (like putting mint icecream in rootbeer) came up.

whats with the foam? I guess the rad is shot? From what I read, I know I should replace the following; fan clutch(parts store,compare size), tstat(stock 195*), hoses(dealer), rad cap(?), do a system flush(fill w/distilled water), check fan belt tension(krikit II NAPA), and may wire an override switch for aux fan, need 91 or newer writeup(?). Did I miss anything and is it worth it to upgrade to a 3 core rad? If so, whats good? how much? i've heard theres good and bad about GDI... TIA
Click to expand...


O.k. Here goes my info, I've read all the debates, pros - cons, etc....... So here goes. My engine temps were starting to get hot last year, (spring time) beach area Los Angeles, temps here don't get over 80*, and evenings in hi 50s-low 60s. But gradually over a period of 4 months my engine temps started to get higher, and then the water pump went bad. Changed the water pump at the same time change to a 185* t-stat. It still ran hot. My fan clutch went bad, changed that, still hot. Finally I changed out my radiator, and just decided to go with a GDI 3 row (I know, everyone has there own opinion on radiators..) But since then I haven't had any heating problems. Local driving in traffic the temp stays around 190-200, if it gets warm I turn on the a/c or defroster and temp goes down. Came back thru Death Valley last summer with temps around 105*, my jeep got to about 215-220 turned on the a/c (aux fan kicked on) and it never got above 210*. Its been about a year and haven't had any problems, on the trails I leave the a/c on and the engine temp stays around 190-210.....

I guess I got lucky!! :thumbup:

Scott Suyeto
 
It was a 105* and only when the engine temps got to 220 THEN you turned on the A/C.....THATS SICK :D I want my A/C when it gets above 80* here in PA.... driving around at 105* with no A/C, man I'd have wring out my seatcovers and use a wet vac on the carpet to get all the sweat out.... an I don't wanna hear 'But it's dry heat' :D :D :D

GDI's seem to vary in quality. We got one for our YJ last summer and while it was adequate for the $99 we paid the quality was a bit lacking, tacky welds [no pun intended] on the mounting brackets that necessitated a trip to a friends shop who has a small mig, plus it had a slight seep around the top tank and some of the fan shroud holes did not line up right, all fixed but annoying considering I wanted something to bolt right in not drive all over town prepping it for install. I've got a modine coming, I've used them in the past and they fit as good as OEM which to me is half the battle, while I like fixing things there are somethings I just want to work right the first time.
 
I have the GDI 3 core. I also have the old sealed cooling system. No problems and going on the second year. Gauge sits right at 190* even with long idle times and temps. above 100*

Neil
 
while on this subject will a 91 or newer open style radiator fit in my 89
 
XJBlue --

If your radiator is spitting, it can't hold pressure and that contributes to the overheating. 10 years is a long time for what passes as an OEM radiator these days. It doesn't owe you anything, and it's time to move on.

You don't need any "write-ups" -- you already have the open system, so you'll be doing a straight replacement, not a conversion from the "closed" system.

When I replaced my radiator 4+ years ago I used a 3-core GDI and I've been extremely happy with it. BUT ... I bought mine from a local shop, and the owner of that shop told me that HIS price is higher than the end-user price from those 1-800-RADIATOR guys. Enough people have reported problems with GDIs bought through that program for me to suspect that they may be selling seconds.

Several people recently have reported buying Modines for not a lot more than the GDI. When I was looking, the cheapest Modine I could find was over $250 and that wasn't a heavy duty. If I were doing it again today, I'd shop for a heavy duty Modine, or talk to Dirk at DPG Offroad about that special radiator he carries.
 
fart_2 said:
while on this subject will a 91 or newer open style radiator fit in my 89
Click to expand...
my guess it should fit but I know you would have to do a conversion to an open system. I've seen writups on that somewhere.

Eagle said:
XJBlue --
You don't need any "write-ups" -- you already have the open system, so you'll be doing a straight replacement, not a conversion from the "closed" system.
Click to expand...
The write up I was asking about would be for an electric fan manual override switch for my 93, I read somewhere it wasn't as easy as wiring one for the pre 91's. anyone know of any info there? oh yeah should search Mod tech...
I'm more than ready to move on, I'm defenantly in the "if it broke - upgrade" catagory, so since the consensus is the radiator isn't holding up I'll replace it.
I'll have to check into the modines, and this special one Dirk has. There is a local shop (acme radiator) that is cheaper than anyone around here and does installs for $30 or so i've heard, I might have to check into.

they fit as good as OEM which to me is half the battle, while I like fixing things there are somethings I just want to work right the first time.
Click to expand...
i'm with you there Rich, except I prefer most things to work right the first time.
lucas posted about the redline water wetter, might add it to the list.
Thanks for all the great responses! if there is more keep em coming.
 
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There should be a whole bunch of info on radiators cause I know I've posted them before. I got my Modine Heavy duty from Napa for $145.00(no tax in MT).

I was going to go with the three row untill I found out that the GDI three rows uses smaller tubes to get the three rows. Something like 1/4" while the two row Modine I have uses 5/8" tubes. I'd rather have the larger tubes that will flow more and clog less likely then the smaller three rows. And the rad, I replaced was a GDI that lasted four years.
 
xjblue said:
The write up I was asking about would be for an electric fan manual override switch for my 93, I read somewhere it wasn't as easy as wiring one for the pre 91's. anyone know of any info there? oh yeah should search Mod tech...
I'm more than ready to move on, I'm defenantly in the "if it broke - upgrade" catagory, so since the consensus is the radiator isn't holding up I'll replace it.
I'll have to check into the modines, and this special one Dirk has. There is a local shop (acme radiator) that is cheaper than anyone around here and does installs for $30 or so i've heard, I might have to check into.
Click to expand...
Go to AutoZone and pick up an adjustable Electric fan thermostat, a 20 amp add-a-circuit, and a 20 amp toggle switch. Just follow the directions with the thermostat. The whole thing should cost around $20. This is by far the easiest mod I have done, and one of the best. I have heard that you need a relay switch to turn on the fan for the '92 and later models, but mine is a '92 and it works great without the relay. Your elec. fan will occasionally stay on after you turn off the motor, but will go off after a couple of minutes. You can also control the fan manually. When you think the temp is getting too high, flip on the switch and watch the temp fall.
 
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I would do a system flush while you're at it. Rust and scale don't conduct heat as well as copper or iron. Flush that crap out. I use the prestone stuff that you drive around with in the system for a couple of days. you would be surprised at the nastiness that came out last time I did it.
I put the watter wetter in after all the rest of the cooling system was in top shape (other than the Tstat). I think it helps a ton, but wouldn't rely on it as a cure.
 
I'm just going to do it all at once, flush it and replace everything (except water pump) I noticed the other thread about coolant capacity (12 quarts, 1.5 gal water/ 1.5 gal coolant) and how to do the flush, great info.
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=25541
thanks for all the input.
 
xjblue, Did you fix it yet? How'd it turn out?

I found this thread to be very helpful. My cooling system problem has me at wits end. I've been throwing nickels and dimes at the problem so far, but I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and replace the radiator.
 
cshontz said:
xjblue, Did you fix it yet? How'd it turn out?

I found this thread to be very helpful. My cooling system problem has me at wits end. I've been throwing nickels and dimes at the problem so far, but I think I'm just going to have to bite the bullet and replace the radiator.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing this btt so I didn't have to hunt for it! I got my new Modine rad installed last night, tstat fan clutch and both hoses replaced earlier in the week (all from dealer). No more leaks, no more overheating, temp stays where it should. so far so good except......

I've noticed another problem. The Aux fan does not come on at all. It hasn't needed to yet except it used to cycle on when I selected an AC setting, now I get nothing. There was a thread on that topic recently?

Another problem, I picked up a new Cap at Checker, Stant brand, the one the book told me to get says 13lbs and the old stock cap says 16lbs whats up with that? I'm assuming 16lbs is correct, so I havn't used the new one yet :helpme:
 
Here's some links to cooling related problems.

http://www.madxj.com/MADXJ/technical/technicalfiles/JTopenSystemSwitch/OpenSystemSwitch.htm

http://www.olypen.com/craigh/rad.htm

http://www.dirtdevils.org/briantechtippage4.htm

http://jeepsunlimited.com/xj/cooling/cool.htm

http://xjnation2.homestead.com/radiatorconversion.html

I have all these links saved to my favorites. Call me paranoid! I even printed hard copies for future reference.

I did the radiator conversion about two years ago. It was surprisingly easy to do. The hardest part was hunting down the parts. The JeepsUnlimited article is great for part numbers needed.

Btw. I just installed a 97+ style electric fan in my '87 on a whim and i was shocked to see such a noticeable difference. My XJ used to climb up in temp with the A/C on and now it barely climbs at all.

Even with pretty much fixing my overheating problems I've still got what I call the "Temp Gauge Bobble". It's an ailment where I am constantly watching the temp gauge!! Anybody else got that? ;)
 
xjblue said:
Thanks for bringing this btt so I didn't have to hunt for it! I got my new Modine rad installed last night, tstat fan clutch and both hoses replaced earlier in the week (all from dealer). No more leaks, no more overheating, temp stays where it should. so far so good except......

Did you have this acme shop do it? if so, what's the addy/phone number..I've replaced damned near everything, and still heating on Moab rim, so figuring radiator upgrade is in the works... haven't decided on a waterpump upgrade, but prolly might as well change that out while I'm doing it.
Click to expand...
 
poomba said:
Did you have this acme shop do it? if so, what's the addy/phone number..I've replaced damned near everything, and still heating on Moab rim, so figuring radiator upgrade is in the works... haven't decided on a waterpump upgrade, but prolly might as well change that out while I'm doing it.
Click to expand...

Just the "acme" shop in my parents garage? :dunno: one of those do it yourself shops were you'll get lucky if you have the right tool or anyone comes down to help, but the labor is free for as long as you can stand there and do it! :D
lets get your rig running good already so we can hit the trail Poomba
 
my aux electric fan never comes on either. at idle, i get right up to the brink of overheat. what a nuisance. it probably hasn't run for a long time (perhaps i should have noticed the lack of a buzz up front from the rattling fan housing) and is just getting hot enough to be an issue. yay for more crap to fix.

i've run 15 and 16lb rad caps without issue. can't speak for whether 13 is typically sufficient.
 
hmmm, it has been 95-98 degrees lately down here in Orlando, my factory guage has been pegged at around 212. Is this too hot? I just had my radiator flushed about 6 months ago. What is the normal operating temperature? Now I am starting to get worried. :eek:
 
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