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Attention Math Guru's

crazy4mopar

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Poway Ca,
I need to find out how much (CFM) air is coming thru the front grill at 65MPH.
How do I do that? The reason is I have done everything I know to cool off the motor.
New water pump, thermostat, bigger radiator, and converted to the open system, checked timing, no air in the lines. It's an 89 with a 4.0 and A/C
At 65-70 MPH it still wants to go to the 230+ range with the A/C off!!
My thought is to remove the grill and mount 3 ( 8" ) fans across the front grill area but I would like to double the CFM's coming thru
 
crazy4mopar said:
I need to find out how much (CFM) air is coming thru the front grill at 65MPH.
How do I do that? The reason is I have done everything I know to cool off the motor.
New water pump, thermostat, bigger radiator, and converted to the open system, checked timing, no air in the lines. It's an 89 with a 4.0 and A/C
At 65-70 MPH it still wants to go to the 230+ range with the A/C off!!
My thought is to remove the grill and mount 3 ( 8" ) fans across the front grill area but I would like to double the CFM's coming thru

You want to double the CFM coming through the grill? Forget the fans. Just drive twice as fast. :doh:
 
grasseater said:
You want to double the CFM coming through the grill? Forget the fans. Just drive twice as fast. :doh:

OK, now that I've made a smart ass comment, ever think of trying hood vents first? Probably much cheaper than 8 freakin' fans, looks cooler, costs way less, and I've heard it works well.

My smart $.02, minus the ass.
 
Speaking as an owner of three Renix XJ's, I suppose I should get round to writing that cooling article I've been composing for the last couple years or so...

Here's some thought to help you -

1) Run 180* thermostat. It's doesn't do anything for cooling directly, but will get your coolant flowing earlier and will complement a few other things that can be done.

2) When you install ANY thermostat, drill two 1/16" holes in the flange, as close to the edges as you can get (I come in a little over 1/4" on all of mine.) When you mount the thermostat, make sure the holes are at 6:00 and 12:00 installed location. Why? The Renix system is known for trapping air behind the thermostat, and the bleed holes will make the system constantly self-purging for air. The controlled weep also seems to help in general, but I don't remember why and I don't feel like working it out right now...

3) Make sure the lower radiator hose has a support coil (looks like a big coil spring) in it. Under suction, that hose can collapse when warm, and cause trouble for you.

4) De-crap your cooling system. As little as 1/14" of scale is a 10% drop in efficiency, and it's not a linear increase. When you refill, use distilled or R/O filtered water ONLY. Keep some in the garage at all times. Not even spring water - distilled or R/O ONLY. (R/O = Reverse Osmosis)

5) Check your fan clutch. Average life of the thermal clutch is 3-5 years. To test, get the engine to operating temperature, turn off, and try to turn the fan by hand. There should be significant resistance - if not, it's shot. Replace.

6) De-crap the radiator fins as well. While you have the fan out for clutch replacement, blow the radiator out from the engine side with a fine stream of water. Use a decent flashlight from the back to check when you're done. Repeat as necessary.

7) Water Wetter. Great stuff.

8) If the radiator is still OEM, replace it. It's pretty well shot by now, and the Renix radiators from the factory weren't that great. I have a high-efficiency Modine 3-core that I got locally, you shouldn't have any trouble finding one.

9) The pipe nipple for the heater hose on the water pump uses a standard pipe thread - 3/8"NPT I think. I replaced mine with a pipe stub and elbow, so the hose bend was gone. I'm working on a similar setup for all over - brass tubing with rubber vibration stubs at all terminii. Why? Better coolant flow and less rubber to wear out - and the pipes themselves will conduct heat away from the coolant. Every little bit helps.

10) I've heard from a lot of people running adjustable MAP sensors - as the mix gets rich, the operating temperature drops. Makes sense - the additional fuel in the mix acts as a coolant, absorbing heat as it is vapourised. Something else to consider - the mod itself is fairly cheap. It's on my own "to do" list.

11) Automatic transmission? External cooler! If you can, get the kit with the thermal control valve and divorce the transmission cooler entirely - that will get a hot oil circuit out of your engine cooling. This will result in a significant drop in operating temperature and cruise.

12) An engine oil cooler won't go amiss, either. Oil gets everywhere, and would you rather pump hot oil or cool oil thru your engine? I know the answer, so do you.


Of course, this isn't everything, just what's off the top of my head. I've dropped operating temperature on my 88/5sp to about 185-190*, and my wife's 89/AW4 to about 190-195*. If one of us hits 210*, I want to know why.

It's been said that the hotter-running 4.0 was meant to help with emissions control (reduced HC and CO,) but I've not noticed a problem here - Santa Clara County wants biennial sniffer checks, we've just gone to Smog Check II (dyno test) - and our emissions levels are so low they aren't tested, they send in miners to dig for them....

All this with stock fans. Getting the 4.0 cooler isn't a matter of moving more air - it's a matter of moving more HEAT. Moving more air won't help with that, until the system moves more heat into contact with the air. Believe me, you're moving plenty of air up there!

5-90
 
Lee, 5-90 is pretty right on about this. If everything in your system is working properly, it won't get hot. You have an air bubble, or the radiator has slightly plugged with crud, or something. 5-90's list is a good one. How long ago did you replace the radiator? When I've heated up, it's only been for a couple of reasons......radiator partially plugged, aux fan not coming on, bubble in the system, or a bad bottle cap that won't hold pressure.

My most recent problem was the bottle cap, and I never did get a good one from the Jeep dealership, they were all bad. I even used two gaskets and it still wouldn't hold the pressure. One of the Jeep techs gave me the part number to a Volvo cap that holds more presure, I picked one up at a local parts house and it solved the problem.

If you're getting hot at highway speed, you're already getting enough air flow, so look for reduced efficiency. If the radiator is a few years old, I'd pull it and have it checked, and be sure to backflush the motor before re-installing the radiator.
 
Permatex makes a killer radiator flush. It is not recommended for aluminum radiators, though. The factory ones are, I believe, all brass. It is a mix of hydrochloric acid and some other stuff. - none of the wussy soap flushes they sell at Pecker and TwilightZone. You could probably find it at Napa or a CarQuest store. Use it and all the insides of your cooling system will be shiny and new. When you drain it, pull the lower radiator hose off and let the crap dump out in a big rush so it won't have time to resettle in your radiator tanks. This product really gets all the crap out of your cooling system. Run the heater on high while it's working too to clean out the heater core. Great stuff.

Some things that haven't been mentioned are a plugged A/C condenser, or a leaky head gasket. A plugged up condenser is about like having a pizza box shoved behind your grill. A leaky head gasket can send 800 degree exhaust into your coolant. Both of these could be described as bad.

I just pulled the stock (2 core heavy duty) radiator out of my '88 and flushed it out (the inside) with a hose. Quite a bit of crud and dirt came out. Then I shook it hard and a WHOLE LOT of stuff came out. I didn't reuse it, but I'd imagine that it would have made a world of difference. Instead I dropped in a used 2 core stocker out of a 1997. Same radiator, but with plastic ends and a removeable cap. My Jeep was undriveable above 60 MPH a couple days ago, now it won't even reach the 210 mark with a 195 deg thermostat.

If I had your Jeep, the first things I'd look at would be plugged airflow, and built up crud in the radiator. Take it out and flush/clean it. Spray out the condenser with the rad out. Reinstall it and acid flush it. You shouldn't have any more problems with it for a long long time.

Jared:patriot:
 
I've done a flush with muriatic acid (same thing) from the pool supply house - look up your capacity and give it about an ounce and a half per quart of capacity.

NOTE - if you are going to do something like this, you will want a hose T somewhere, and you will want to flush under pressure. After you run the acid to clean, hook up the hose and run the engine (heater ON) with the cool water running in. I like to leave things full, turn on the engine, and start the water at a trickle. Slowly ramp up until you hit full flow, and run until it comes out dead clear for a minimum of 5 minutes. Drain thoroughly.

Refill with 50/50 (or whatever your local optimax mix is) and Water Wetter. Apply the rest of the mods at will.

Change your thermostat after you drain the clear water - it's wrecked the first time you overheat it. Assume it's toast and start over.

If you run a tight enough pressure stream through the fins, it will clean everything. Run it through from the back so you will dislodge stuck stuff - going from the front can stick the crap in there worse. Checking with a torch beam will show anything you can see, and all that is why I didn't mention any coolers separately.

5-90
 
Thanks 5-90!! It looks like my fan clutch is bad. I will change the thermo and install it per your directions. The radiator is less than 1 year old and it's a 3 core so I'll flush it next weekend.
Thanks for the tip richard I'll pop a new cap on it also. DeadeyeJ I cleaned out the condender and tranny cooler last year it may be time to do it again.
THANKS GUYS
Keep the tips coming!!
 
mad maXJ said:
not really adressing your problem, but have you done anything to get the hot air out from under your hood? hood vents or a 3/4" lift on the rear?

i put some 3/4" box tubing between my hinges and hood, there are pics here: http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232083
That was my next idea :) I did it to my hot rod...It used to get hot (200*) running an Aluminum headed 340 with 4:30 gears and a 26" tires... The Nitrous bottle didn't help either;)
Boy when I cracked the hood up in the back and put in a 160 thermotat it sure helped alot.
 
Just a thought, are you sure the temp gauge in the dash is correct. I know the Renix era XJs have some wiring issues. Maybe a new temp sender for the gauge might be a good investment. If everything else checks out good, you might need to look into this further.

Bryan
 
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