Ok, the wishbones out. What front link setup?

csudman · Apr 22, 2004

Wishbones out. Hydro of anykind is out. So, Radius, Three link, Parralel Four link. What have you done that worked well and what have you done that didn't work well. What would you do differently.

BrettM · Apr 22, 2004

the radius arm (using ford axle or Y arms) is common, cheap, easy, and proven. i would just go that route unless you are going to get REALLY into it, which by your lack of hydro, i'm assuming you're not.

CRASH · Apr 22, 2004

My new one is radius arm, RE joints everywhere, and one upper arm with 1" heims to control rotation.

Very easy to package, good performance, good ground clearance.

CRASH

csudman · Apr 22, 2004

I've got a traditional 3-link right now. RK 2nd Gen., It works well. But, because of the t-bar, when climbing, the entire vehicle leins right. And I'm not sure if Im even saying this right. It seems like the front end isnt balanced side to side.

csudman · Apr 22, 2004

CRASH said:
My new one is radius arm, RE joints everywhere, and one upper arm with 1" heims to control rotation.

Very easy to package, good performance, good ground clearance.

CRASH

Got any new pics of it?

CRASH · Apr 22, 2004

It's still top-secret. No spy shots yet.

CRASH

Nay · Apr 22, 2004

csudman said:
I've got a traditional 3-link right now. RK 2nd Gen., It works well. But, because of the t-bar, when climbing, the entire vehicle leins right. And I'm not sure if Im even saying this right. It seems like the front end isnt balanced side to side.

If I understand this stuff correctly, raising your trackbar to near horizontal will control the tendency to lean to the right (it's not a single upper arm thing). This will of course require flat top knuckles on a 44 (or equivalent) and a trackbar mount raised about 5" above the axle.

This is why, IMO, OME has a separate passenger side spring for their 2" lift. It balances out the increase in trackbar angle to prevent that lean to the right.

I have about 7.5" of lift up front, flat top knuckles, and a raised trackbar mount to match the draglink. I don't have too much trackbar angle (about 3" verticle separation between frame and axle mount), but it still leans to the right a little bit (much better than before the D44 and raised trackbar).

I think I will go back to a 1" drop pitman and raise the trackbar mount another inch maybe a bit more. Close to horizontal with no more than stock vertical separation should be the key.

The wishbone of course would have cured this because you have two equal frame mounts.

Nay

csudman · Apr 22, 2004

Nay said:
If I understand this stuff correctly, raising your trackbar to near horizontal will control the tendency to lean to the right (it's not a single upper arm thing). This will of course require flat top knuckles on a 44 (or equivalent) and a trackbar mount raised about 5" above the axle.

The wishbone of course would have cured this because you have two equal frame mounts.

Nay

Exactly, you do understand what I'm sayin. And one other thing. As I understand it, It would be called a panhard bar if its close to horizontal. And a trackbar if its at an angle. I'm gonna be runnin a f-250 d44 so I will have flat tops and Poison Spyder Custom Highsteer. Steering will be really high. No matter what I do I'll be runnin a near flat panhard to.

With a standard 3 link l /l, will this help to created a more balanced system?

BrettM · Apr 22, 2004

the "proper" name is panhard, look in any suspension book, the angle doesn't change the name.

Nay, you will get some lean to the right because of how the motor turns but that may only account for part of what you're experiencing. the panhard has nothing to do with lean if you're going straight, and possibly very, very slight influence when turning or already leaning. running one "Y" arm and one straight will cause one side to lift more than the other, the side with the upper should squat under forward movement. do you have your upper on the passenger side? all the axle rotation is controlled by the one with the upper, so under forward acceleration that arm is pulling the body down.

CRASH · Apr 22, 2004

Put the upper on the drivers side...engine rotation fights the squat.

I don't think Nay has a single upper system.

CRASH

JeepFreak21 · Apr 22, 2004

mad maXJ said:
the radius arm (using ford axle or Y arms) is common, cheap, easy, and proven. i would just go that route unless you are going to get REALLY into it, which by your lack of hydro, i'm assuming you're not.

Yup... this is the plan that I (think I) have decided on (after some redesigning of the crossmember

)
Billy

JeepFreak21 · Apr 22, 2004

CRASH said:
My new one is radius arm, RE joints everywhere, and one upper arm with 1" heims to control rotation.

Very easy to package, good performance, good ground clearance.

CRASH

I'm about at the point where I'm going to give up and do heims for my uppers also, but I'm concerned w/ daily driving it and the heims getting loose... what do ya think?
Billy

BrettM · Apr 22, 2004

CRASH said:
Put the upper on the drivers side...engine rotation fights the squat.

I don't think Nay has a single upper system.

CRASH

also put it on the driver's side if you have a driver's side diff because the pinion angle will be much better during articulation

Nay · Apr 22, 2004

mad maXJ said:
Nay, you will get some lean to the right because of how the motor turns but that may only account for part of what you're experiencing. the panhard has nothing to do with lean if you're going straight, and possibly very, very slight influence when turning or already leaning. running one "Y" arm and one straight will cause one side to lift more than the other, the side with the upper should squat under forward movement. do you have your upper on the passenger side? all the axle rotation is controlled by the one with the upper, so under forward acceleration that arm is pulling the body down.

I have a standard longarm setup. No single upper. Under coasting conditions, in twisty turns, the thing just leans a little bit more to the right. The same exact turn angle and speed to the left and it simply leans less. The lean to either direction is relatively minimal, and it is why I don't run a swaybar, which just makes things worse.

I remember reading a post about the trackbar creating multiple roll axis points, and that keeping it close to horizontal was necessary for side to side balance. Not true?

In any case, I probably will go to a single upper at some point, and it will definitely be on the driver's side. I already have the RE bridge welded on to my 44, so that bracket will be very, very simple. Good to know that this might counteract some of the natural "dip" on the passenger side.

Nay

BrettM · Apr 22, 2004

Nay said:
I have a standard longarm setup. No single upper. Under coasting conditions, in twisty turns, the thing just leans a little bit more to the right. The same exact turn angle and speed to the left and it simply leans less. The lean to either direction is relatively minimal, and it is why I don't run a swaybar, which just makes things worse.

I remember reading a post about the trackbar creating multiple roll axis points, and that keeping it close to horizontal was necessary for side to side balance. Not true?

In any case, I probably will go to a single upper at some point, and it will definitely be on the driver's side. I already have the RE bridge welded on to my 44, so that bracket will be very, very simple. Good to know that this might counteract some of the natural "dip" on the passenger side.

Nay

the roll axis is best calculated at the mid-point of the bar, but yes, it will roll around the different ends depending on which way you're turning. it sounded above like his is leaning when he's not turning, which would have to be the engine torque or link geometry, not panhard bar.

csudman · Apr 23, 2004

OK, so I've decided on a traditional 3 link, I've already got the frame brackets for the RK one i'll just build new arms and mounts. Now the question is, Panhard or trackbar?

CRASH · Apr 23, 2004

csudman said:
OK, so I've decided on a traditional 3 link, I've already got the frame brackets for the RK one i'll just build new arms and mounts. Now the question is, Panhard or trackbar?

Can you explain to me why you think there is a difference between a panhard bar and a track bar?

They are one in the same.

CRASH

Nay · Apr 23, 2004

Panhard and trackbar are the same thing. Make it as close to horizontal as possible for the best performance (still parallel with draglink).

Nay

Beezil · Apr 23, 2004

I heard the difference was something like if a tracbar spends all its life in freshwater, its called a tracbar, but if it goes out to a salton sea, it becomes a panhard bar.....

something like that anyway

CRASH · Apr 23, 2004

Beezil said:
I heard the difference was something like if a tracbar spends all its life in freshwater, its called a tracbar, but if it goes out to a salton sea, it becomes a panhard bar.....

something like that anyway

Someone's been Googling me......I feel violated!

CRASH

Ok, the wishbones out. What front link setup?

Which Link Setup

Traditional 3 link

Radius Arm

Parrallel 4 Link

Screw it all and put it back to stock.

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