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How far forward can I move my axle?

C

csudman

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Statesville, NC
I'm gettin ready for the build, as always, and I'm tring to decide how to do this. I still seriously considering the wishbone but I'm gonna use a 1 1/4" JJ for my joint. But after reading Bezzls happyness w/ the lateral stabily of the wishbone, I'm planin on running stock steering box location and go high steer w. a hp44. I guess my question is will it bind if I move it forward 2-3 inches. Right now the end of my drag link is about 4 inches infront of the knuckle where it mounts. If this makes any sence.
 
if you did crossover, not histeer, then it would not bind for sure. or you could have the TRE of the draglink go into the back side of the tie-rod.

or, if you want to get crazy, move the axle forward about a foot, turn the pitman arm 180 degrees, and get a hi-steer arm that attaches the draglink behind the axle :cool:
 
mad maXJ said:
if you did crossover, not histeer, then it would not bind for sure. or you could have the TRE of the draglink go into the back side of the tie-rod.

or, if you want to get crazy, move the axle forward about a foot, turn the pitman arm 180 degrees, and get a hi-steer arm that attaches the draglink behind the axle :cool:
Click to expand...

I really wanna get my steering up as high as possible. Out of the way. I'm planning on using PSC's arms
dsc00495.jpg

Will this be a problem. I really can't see one. My drag link will be pretty close to flat. So I think it will drive better than it does now w/ 8" lift and stock steering w/ a skycrapper drop pitman arm.
 
Parts Mikes basic arms are 89.99. His Super arm is 119.00 each. The super arm is comparable to the psc arm and its 114.00. I guess I could get the cheaper arm. But Im thinking about strength. The more expensive arms are both 1.5" think. The PSC's are actualy $2.00's cheaper for the entire kit. And of course, for the bling.
 
I pushed my front (Dana 30) foward somewhere close to 2" and have had no problems with anything. I did do a knuckle to knuckle steering with 1 ton TREs and everything worked out well.

AARON
 
I had mine moved 1.5 inches forward, and on full stuff, my tires contact the battery/airbox sheetmetal on turns (35's)

Something to consider, I'm about to trim mine out of the way on the new chassis.

CRASH
 
Well, thats what a BFH adn bumpstops are for. But thanks. Def. one more think to think about. I guess that settles it. Nothin to worry about there.

Now, the other part of the question. All the guys w/ a wishbone front are runnin full hydro. I really wanna daliy drive this thing for a while. And lets not get into the hydro/streetable debate. I wanna run "traditional" steering. Will a properly built ,strong, wishbone provide enough lateral stability to eliminate the need for a trackbar and be strong enough to handle the stress put on by the 37" tires thru the drag link?

Man that was a mouthfull.

Thanks
CJ
 
csudman said:
...I wanna run "traditional" steering. Will a properly built ,strong, wishbone provide enough lateral stability to eliminate the need for a trackbar and be strong enough to handle the stress put on by the 37" tires thru the drag link?
Click to expand...

Well, this is the problem. When you run a "wishbone" (triagulated) 3 link, your axle no longer moves in an arc following the TB. It pivots around the center mounted upper link. The stock steering isn't designed to work this way. Essentially you'll have killer bumpsteer and judging by the amount of people that have ripped the steering box off the frame OR busted the sector shaft with 35s, I think 37s might be a bit much for stock steering.

When you hit a bump with a triangulated front, the axle will move straight up & down, no sideways movement like stock. When this happens you're draglink will have to push to the driver's side (drivers on compression & pass on droop) stressing your steering box. This will happen continuously until something gives.

The reason people have bump steer when they lift a Jeep is that they reposition or shorten the TB or draglink. The TB & draglink follow in the same arc so you have no bumpsteer. Ideally the TB & draglink would be the same length pivot point to pivot point & same difference in height at their mounting points. This eliminates bump steer.

I'm sure people have done it, but for how long?

-jb
 
csudman said:
Parts Mikes basic arms are 89.99. His Super arm is 119.00 each. The super arm is comparable to the psc arm and its 114.00. I guess I could get the cheaper arm. But Im thinking about strength. The more expensive arms are both 1.5" think. The PSC's are actualy $2.00's cheaper for the entire kit. And of course, for the bling.
Click to expand...

okay, that's a pretty good deal, but I think i'm gonna be fine with the 1" arms, and I already have a knuckle tapped 9/16. personally I would rather run the more standard/interchangeable arm than have one with larger studs.
 
mad maXJ said:
a flat draglink and hydro-assist make a 3 link possible with no noticable bumpsteer.

this is Matt's:
D30front_view.jpg


the rest of his pics: http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/xjpics/
Click to expand...


This is basicly what I plan on doing. But with a steering stablizer instead of hydro assist. I can do hydro assist, but again this is a street rig for at least another year. I can't seem to figure a better way to do it. I drew up a quick drawing of the front end. I seem to be getting binding no matter what I do, but its only on upward travel. Downward is pretty much bind free for a good while. Any solutions?
0.jpg
 
Well, after spending some more time over at POR. It doesn't look like this will work w/out full hydro. And thats not an option right now. Unless someone has another great Idea for steering, I guess I'm back to the good old three link. Execpt this time ill build a panhard instead of a trackbar.
 
you don't need full hydro, just hydro assist. hydro assist will let much of the steering force bypass the draglink, therefore greatly reducing the side stress on the triagulated third link. hydro assist is also fully legal (it looks like full hydro is too, but there is some debate, no debate with assist) and maintains a mechanical connection that will let you keep your steering should a hydro line break.
 
There are two problems right now with hydro assist.

1. I've heard that alot of times the ram will either run out of stroke or not have enough before the steering is thru its entire motion. Also creating bind.

2. $$$$ I've budgeted this for about 2000.00. Hydro done right will run me about 3-400 dollars. Not in the budget.
 
csudman said:
There are two problems right now with hydro assist.

1. I've heard that alot of times the ram will either run out of stroke or not have enough before the steering is thru its entire motion. Also creating bind.

2. $$$$ I've budgeted this for about 2000.00. Hydro done right will run me about 3-400 dollars. Not in the budget.
Click to expand...

1. that's just a matter of properly limiting the ram, no big deal

2. yes, hydro assist would cost a couple hunded dollars, if you can't afford that than you better start looking at panhard (track) bars again.
 
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