Looking for a Project Rig?

[Tom R.]

Just a heads up and a bit premature as I'm not selling right away, but I wanted to get the word out to anyone considering going the route.

If anyone is looking for a project XJ I am seriously considering selling my XJ. If I sell "as is" you'll need to either perform extensive troubleshooting to fix numerous problems or have a good engine, possibly an AW4 trans, and likely a front axle to drop in. Or you can strip it of the good parts and use on your own rig. Of course, the asking price will be reflective of a troublesome rig. No worries, I understand a problem rig is not everyone's bag.

If you're interested, either post here or email me and we can discuss the problems in more detail. I haven't set the price yet, but that can be negotiated back channel. It still has some value, so I won't be giving it away. My guess is that I'd like to have it sold in 2 or 3 months. I figure this will give me some time to find a decent daily driver. So the caveat is I need to find myself a good, reliable vehicle first, whether it be another XJ or a car.

Tom

[ACE]

You ought to just get a newer XJ that runs great and just move your axles and lift and whatever else you can over to it. XJ's are cheap these days and I'm sure you can find a reliable one. Hate to see ya get out of the XJ family Tom.

[Tom R.]

You ought to just get a newer XJ that runs great and just move your axles and lift and whatever else you can over to it. XJ's are cheap these days and I'm sure you can find a reliable one. Hate to see ya get out of the XJ family Tom.

I'd like to do that. Money and time are incredibly tight, though. My original plan was to buy a econo-beater as my daily driver as I work on the rig. But it doesn't look promising that I'll be able to afford two vehicles at this time. If I hadn't recently bought the wife a new car I'd already have my second car. BTW, I told the wife of my decision, which I thought she'd be over joyed about, but to my surprise she thinks I should reconsider. :huh:

Don't worry, I'm not leaving the XJ family. I just need to make the right decision at this time. My frustration level is at an all time high and I'm tired of dealing with the problems this XJ is giving me. At Jerry's shop I disassembled my LCAs and cleaned & greased them. I replaced one rubber bushing that wasn't very old, and then adjusted the caster using XJEEPER's rig as a reference. It drove much better.......for about 1.5 days. Now it's worse than ever before. I also discovered the TREs I replaced less than 6 months ago are shot. And these are the minor problems.

My final decision will be based on whether I can permanently fix these problems and/or if I get the right offer from someone interested in buying it.

[XJEEPER]

I'd like to do that. Money and time are incredibly tight, though. My original plan was to buy a econo-beater as my daily driver as I work on the rig. But it doesn't look promising that I'll be able to afford two vehicles at this time. If I hadn't recently bought the wife a new car I'd already have my second car. BTW, I told the wife of my decision, which I thought she'd be over joyed about, but to my surprise she thinks I should reconsider. :huh:

Don't worry, I'm not leaving the XJ family. I just need to make the right decision at this time. My frustration level is at an all time high and I'm tired of dealing with the problems this XJ is giving me. At Jerry's shop I disassembled my LCAs and cleaned & greased them. I replaced one rubber bushing that wasn't very old, and then adjusted the caster using XJEEPER's rig as a reference. It drove much better.......for about 1.5 days. Now it's worse than ever before. I also discovered the TREs I replaced less than 6 months ago are shot. And these are the minor problems.

My final decision will be based on whether I can permanently fix these problems and/or if I get the right offer from someone interested in buying it.

So how does it drive now, in relation to the caster? Keep in mind that I don't have a front driveshaft spinning all the time so my caster numbers may vary from what you need to run. I know you've had some engine performance issues as well, what's the latest? You've got the best resource availble right here, toss it out to the masses..........and I agree with Joe, if you do sell it off, go for a body swap to a newer model or make it stock and save your investment in lift and tires.
We could collect some stock parts and pull off an Un-lift party and make it stock in a Saturday if needs be.

[mbryson]

So how does it drive now, in relation to the caster? Keep in mind that I don't have a front driveshaft spinning all the time so my caster numbers may vary from what you need to run. I know you've had some engine performance issues as well, what's the latest? You've got the best resource availble right here, toss it out to the masses..........and I agree with Joe, if you do sell it off, go for a body swap to a newer model or make it stock and save your investment in lift and tires.
We could collect some stock parts and pull off an Un-lift party and make it stock in a Saturday if needs be.


Yeah, so what is the problem? You just busting through bushings etc. PDQ? I don't even use up tie rod ends that fast. I'm very curious to your problem resolution, suspension wise.

If you've got engine issues, well that's another problem altogether, isn't it?.....

[Tom R.]

Okay, as for the steering...I've adjusted the caster so many times I've lost count. Quick run-down: Replaced all control arm bushings and dialed in caster until no vibes from front u-joint and best driveability. Replaced all TREs and drag link (OEM). Had the toe adjusted twice in a relatively short period....it was out both times. Improvement noted after each time. BTW, I was right there with the guy adjusting it. This lasted for a couple of months. The caster changed! :huh: At Jerry's shop I disassembled the RE LCAs, cleaned & greased, and adjusted caster using XJEEPER's rig as a reference point. Drive much better for 1.5 days after which the steering got worse each day. Now the fairly new TREs have play and it drives really bad. It wants to follow road groves and other such road irregularities. Especially bad are the worn down parts of roads, sort of like a two-track, caused by the weight of cars near intersections. I can barely keep the Jeep straight. Crowned roads pose quite a problem too. Steering wheel does not return to center nearly as good as it did the first couple of days after the last adjust.....also, it's heavier. BTW, I replaced the steering box and pump too.

Engine power loss: This started about 1.5 years ago. Gas mileage way down (loss of 4+ MPG), very noticeable decrease in acceleration, tranny shifts harder, general smoothness of engine noticeably worse. Every blue moon, it goes away and everything operates normally, but this has become rare.....just enough to remind me what kind of power I should have (w/ 4.56 gears). I replaced nearly every sensor, some more than once, and had it on a couple of analyzers. I had the head rebuilt too. Ran smoother but power loss still there.

Heating: Ever since the head rebuild it runs too hot, whether idling, city driving, or highway. Not so much a problem during winter, but it's becoming one as Spring brings warmer temps. I replaced the water pump twice, professional radiator flush, OEM t-stat twice, both sensors on top of head replaced, rad cap, added Redline Water Wetter for giggles. All hoses are fairly recent. Every now and then it builds enough pressure so that it leaks from the small hose connections that hook up to the passenger side of radiator.

Exhaust odor: Don't know the cause. Replaced cat and O2. Odor still there, and emissions testing checks out fine. A couple of months after replacing cat, I went back to the same shop to see if cat prematurely plugged or not otherwise working properly. They claimed it was bad, but when I showed them the receipt for recent cat they installed, they relunctantly replaced it. I think they were trying to scam me without remembering they had replaced it only a few months prior.

Electrical: Battery discharging as Jeep sat overnight. It happened intermittently.....1 week on, 1 week off sort of thing. I thought I fixed it by replacing the shut down relay, but problem came back several weeks later. Hopefully this was fixed today as a local shop believes the factory alarm was drawing battery power even though alarm was not activated. Disconnected! I'll see if this fixes it.....need time to verify.

There are a few smaller issues I can live with as long as I can get the above fixed....PERMANENTLY. If I keep it, I want to do an over-the-knuckle steering set up and LCA drop down brackets. This might take care of the steering problems. If it doesn't, then I would think the problem lies with the front axle, knuckes, or the uniframe is tweaked. I'd like to find a very good mechanic to figure out the power loss problem, but I keep finding shops that give me cause to not go back.

I probably left out some things, but this contains the bigger issues. Feel free to ask questions, say a prayer, or whatever. I'm short on time so hopefully this makes some sense. Thanks for your input/suggestions.

Tom

[mbryson]

Okay, as for the steering...I've adjusted the caster so many times I've lost count. Quick run-down: Replaced all control arm bushings and dialed in caster until no vibes from front u-joint and best driveability. Replaced all TREs and drag link (OEM). Had the toe adjusted twice in a relatively short period....it was out both times. Improvement noted after each time. BTW, I was right there with the guy adjusting it. This lasted for a couple of months. The caster changed! :huh: At Jerry's shop I disassembled the RE LCAs, cleaned & greased, and adjusted caster using XJEEPER's rig as a reference point. Drive much better for 1.5 days after which the steering got worse each day. Now the fairly new TREs have play and it drives really bad. It wants to follow road groves and other such road irregularities. Especially bad are the worn down parts of roads, sort of like a two-track, caused by the weight of cars near intersections. I can barely keep the Jeep straight. Crowned roads pose quite a problem too. Steering wheel does not return to center nearly as good as it did the first couple of days after the last adjust.....also, it's heavier. BTW, I replaced the steering box and pump too.

This is going to sound dumb, but how are your ball joints? Other than that, you've got some serious issues with the 'frame' mounts? My upper mount on the frame was literally ripped from the unibody.



Engine power loss: This started about 1.5 years ago. Gas mileage way down (loss of 4+ MPG), very noticeable decrease in acceleration, tranny shifts harder, general smoothness of engine noticeably worse. Every blue moon, it goes away and everything operates normally, but this has become rare.....just enough to remind me what kind of power I should have (w/ 4.56 gears). I replaced nearly every sensor, some more than once, and had it on a couple of analyzers. I had the head rebuilt too. Ran smoother but power loss still there.

Fuel pressure sensor (this is my 4.0L HO--I don't know or speak much Renix) fixed quite a bit of my issue, but my piston rings are GONE. If I run a heavy oil, 20-50 or something, I get excellent power and think I feel like I have a new engine.

Heating: Ever since the head rebuild it runs too hot, whether idling, city driving, or highway. Not so much a problem during winter, but it's becoming one as Spring brings warmer temps. I replaced the water pump twice, professional radiator flush, OEM t-stat twice, both sensors on top of head replaced, rad cap, added Redline Water Wetter for giggles. All hoses are fairly recent. Every now and then it builds enough pressure so that it leaks from the small hose connections that hook up to the passenger side of radiator.

Head rebuild issue. How long was your warranty?


Exhaust odor: Don't know the cause. Replaced cat and O2. Odor still there, and emissions testing checks out fine. A couple of months after replacing cat, I went back to the same shop to see if cat prematurely plugged or not otherwise working properly. They claimed it was bad, but when I showed them the receipt for recent cat they installed, they relunctantly replaced it. I think they were trying to scam me without remembering they had replaced it only a few months prior.

Head? Maybe related to the overheating?


Electrical: Battery discharging as Jeep sat overnight. It happened intermittently.....1 week on, 1 week off sort of thing. I thought I fixed it by replacing the shut down relay, but problem came back several weeks later. Hopefully this was fixed today as a local shop believes the factory alarm was drawing battery power even though alarm was not activated. Disconnected! I'll see if this fixes it.....need time to verify.

There are a few smaller issues I can live with as long as I can get the above fixed....PERMANENTLY. If I keep it, I want to do an over-the-knuckle steering set up and LCA drop down brackets. This might take care of the steering problems. If it doesn't, then I would think the problem lies with the front axle, knuckes, or the uniframe is tweaked. I'd like to find a very good mechanic to figure out the power loss problem, but I keep finding shops that give me cause to not go back.

I probably left out some things, but this contains the bigger issues. Feel free to ask questions, say a prayer, or whatever. I'm short on time so hopefully this makes some sense. Thanks for your input/suggestions.

Tom

When did the electrical problems start? They SUCK to diagnose........... I'd start pulling fuses on non-essential systems and running until the problem stops occurring. (sounds like that could take a while) I wish I knew a good electrical person. If you find one, post up........... The best I've found are at the dealer, because they have some cool, no brainer scanners and access to LOTS of information. $$$, though

Iccccchhhhh.........sounds like a fun one.

[Tom R.]

This is going to sound dumb, but how are your ball joints? Other than that, you've got some serious issues with the 'frame' mounts? My upper mount on the frame was literally ripped from the unibody.
Ball joints are good. I had JR check them when he was doing some other work and I was there to witness that they checked good. I never thought about the unibody mounts....heck, I don't even know where they are. Worth looking into...


Fuel pressure sensor (this is my 4.0L HO--I don't know or speak much Renix) fixed quite a bit of my issue, but my piston rings are GONE. If I run a heavy oil, 20-50 or something, I get excellent power and think I feel like I have a new engine.
I have the HO motor. Isn't this the fuel vacuum sensor on the front end of the fuel rail? If so, I tested this and it checked good. If it isn't this, can you tell my where it is? Funny....I was thinking about running this weight oil. I suppose it's worth trying.

Head rebuild issue. How long was your warranty?
I don't remember now, but I'm sure it's past the warranty date.

Head? Maybe related to the overheating?I've wondered this myself, but I'm not experienced in this area.


When did the electrical problems start? They SUCK to diagnose........... I'd start pulling fuses on non-essential systems and running until the problem stops occurring. (sounds like that could take a while) I wish I knew a good electrical person. If you find one, post up........... The best I've found are at the dealer, because they have some cool, no brainer scanners and access to LOTS of information. $$$, thoughThis started before the October XJ event in Moab. It's been intermittent the entire time, but started out slow and progressively got worse. Whenever I tried to diagnose it or take it to a shop the problem went away......that was until today. Hopefully the shop got it right with their diagnosis. We'll see.

[XJEEPER]

Ball joints are good. I had JR check them when he was doing some other work and I was there to witness that they checked good. I never thought about the unibody mounts....heck, I don't even know where they are. Worth looking into...


I have the HO motor. Isn't this the fuel vacuum sensor on the front end of the fuel rail? If so, I tested this and it checked good. If it isn't this, can you tell my where it is? Funny....I was thinking about running this weight oil. I suppose it's worth trying.


I don't remember now, but I'm sure it's past the warranty date.

I've wondered this myself, but I'm not experienced in this area.

This started before the October XJ event in Moab. It's been intermittent the entire time, but started out slow and progressively got worse. Whenever I tried to diagnose it or take it to a shop the problem went away......that was until today. Hopefully the shop got it right with their diagnosis. We'll see.

I say we strip all the good stuff, douse it with fuel and have a good, ol' fashioned car-B-Q! :flame: I've had suspicions of demonic possession...........

The unit on the end of the fuel rail with the vac connection is the fuel pressure regulator.
The uni-mounts that Marc is refering to are the frame side LCA mounts.
With all the work you've had done, I'm amazed that nothing has solved the problems with the steering. My Jeep still drove pretty good with stock steering before I did my OTK setup. The bushing wear seems to indicate a serious alignment problem, especially since you've seen very little trail time.

So, which shop did you go to today? Have you tried Hepworth Auto on 12th, across from Les Schwab? Roger is a great guy and won't steer you wrong, fair and honest.

[mbryson]

I say we strip all the good stuff, douse it with fuel and have a good, ol' fashioned car-B-Q! :flame: I've had suspicions of demonic possession...........

The unit on the end of the fuel rail with the vac connection is the fuel pressure regulator.

Right'O on the fuel pressure sender.


The uni-mounts that Marc is refering to are the frame side LCA mounts.
With all the work you've had done, I'm amazed that nothing has solved the problems with the steering. My Jeep still drove pretty good with stock steering before I did my OTK setup. The bushing wear seems to indicate a serious alignment problem, especially since you've seen very little trail time.

So, which shop did you go to today? Have you tried Hepworth Auto on 12th, across from Les Schwab? Roger is a great guy and won't steer you wrong, fair and honest.

Or upper mounts..........that's whats torn off on mine. Contributes to my unique suspension design:shocked: . Steering box loose? Trackbar bracket loose(I finally welded mine on the 'frame')? EVERY time I've had some unexplainable, it's been something. Unfortunately you just have to keep looking. Sometimes it's a bunch of marginal things all adding up, but most of the time, I find something broken or wrong. Carl and Von at Rocklogic have been dreaming up some pretty cool front suspension designs lately. They'll fix you right up.

..........just for clarity. Don't run the 20-50 in any kind of cold weather. Only a summer weight. I don't know if that will help or hurt your engine and there's two schools of thought on changing oil weights.



Ball joints are good. I had JR check them when he was doing some other work and I was there to witness that they checked good. I never thought about the unibody mounts....heck, I don't even know where they are. Worth looking into...

Just where you control arms mount back to the body. Check for stresses or cracking around the mount areas. It is just sheetmetal.

I have the HO motor. Isn't this the fuel vacuum sensor on the front end of the fuel rail? If so, I tested this and it checked good. If it isn't this, can you tell my where it is? Funny....I was thinking about running this weight oil. I suppose it's worth trying.

Yep........see above comment on the oil. I do it because my engine is DONE. Tough to hurt it any more than it already is.

I don't remember now, but I'm sure it's past the warranty date.

I've wondered this myself, but I'm not experienced in this area.

Give the shop a call and let them know what you've done to correct the problem and see if they have any suggestions. If they are reputable, I bet they'll at least give you free advice and might even try to help you out.

This started before the October XJ event in Moab. It's been intermittent the entire time, but started out slow and progressively got worse. Whenever I tried to diagnose it or take it to a shop the problem went away......that was until today. Hopefully the shop got it right with their diagnosis. We'll see.

I kind of meant what mod or incident started the whole electrical thing. Vehicles are like computer networks or computer networks are like vehicles...............whatever. Whenever diagnosing either one, I sit back and evaluate what changed at the time the 'symptoms' started. I usually start looking around at those and see where that takes me.

I've got a spare computer and a couple of other things, but am kind of out of the way, nowadays. (kind of a worthless bastid, anyway for diagnostics.....) Check your firing order and dumb stuff like that for the overheating. Real routine stuff. I bet you find it.......

..........if you don't, I'd surrender and take it to the dealer. You'll drop at least $200-400 or something, but I bet they can figure out what's wrong. There were a couple of good techs at the Spartan, but they are not in business anymore. Josh in parts at LHM will point you to a good tech there, but that's a little out of the way for you.

[Tom R.]

I say we strip all the good stuff, douse it with fuel and have a good, ol' fashioned car-B-Q! :flame: I've had suspicions of demonic possession...........
Heh, heh, don't you wish. :roll:

With all the work you've had done, I'm amazed that nothing has solved the problems with the steering. My Jeep still drove pretty good with stock steering before I did my OTK setup. The bushing wear seems to indicate a serious alignment problem, especially since you've seen very little trail time.
Maybe it's the Rusty's track bar? :laugh2: If we're successful with changing the Jeep work day, perhaps we can get a few heads together to remedy the problem if there's enough time.

So, which shop did you go to today? Have you tried Hepworth Auto on 12th, across from Les Schwab? Roger is a great guy and won't steer you wrong, fair and honest.
I went to Chics Armature on 20th. I plan to take it to Hepworth for the power loss and overheating issue.....maybe related somehow.

[Tom R.]

Just where you control arms mount back to the body. Check for stresses or cracking around the mount areas. It is just sheetmetal.I've checked this, but not lately. Good thought.

I kind of meant what mod or incident started the whole electrical thing. Vehicles are like computer networks or computer networks are like vehicles...............whatever. Whenever diagnosing either one, I sit back and evaluate what changed at the time the 'symptoms' started. I usually start looking around at those and see where that takes me.
I do the same thing....must be my electronics training/experience. The reality is that I didn't change anything. That's what got me to thinking at first that it might be wire chaffing or maybe even a bad diode in the rectifier circuit.

I've got a spare computer and a couple of other things, but am kind of out of the way, nowadays. (kind of a worthless bastid, anyway for diagnostics.....) Check your firing order and dumb stuff like that for the overheating. Real routine stuff. I bet you find it.......
Cool, I'll remember you have a computer. :D I agree about the "dumb" stuff. It's usually something easy, silly, and normally obvious. :D :D

..........if you don't, I'd surrender and take it to the dealer. You'll drop at least $200-400 or something, but I bet they can figure out what's wrong. There were a couple of good techs at the Spartan, but they are not in business anymore. Josh in parts at LHM will point you to a good tech there, but that's a little out of the way for you.If LHM has a decent mechanic it would be worth the drive. Can't say the same thing for the two local 'ships. Thanks for the advice.

Tom