Wheeling&Dealling (long)

Well I had one very non-wrenching Saturday afternoon.

I have this deal with my neighbor. He has a decent 2 door 91' XJ, either a RE 3.5 or 4.5 inch lift, niece tires and wheels and all that. He doesn't get on the internet and his majority of Jeepologly comes from the jokers at 4WheelParts and the infamous Offroad magazine.

Part 1 - The first deal
Anyway, I made a deal with him. He purchased my 87' D35 4.10 w/lockright and 3 sets of spare shafts, for $250. Not a bad deal, lower gears and a locker to boot. So he has paid me for the axle. I also explained the details and charteristics of how a lock-right operates and acts. I told him with some modifications you win with performance but may loose in comfort.

Well we talked about his front axle, he would need to regear it to 4.10. Well my front axle was geared to 4.10, aand is a LP D30 2001 TJ axle. So I thought this would be a good opportunity for me to regear lower and get my HP D30 back in my jeep. I was planning on letting him keep the 760 shafts to make keep the deal on the up and up.

So here's the second deal, we would front swap axles, and he would kick me $300 for new front gears carrier and kit for his HP D30. I told him I would front the money and he could make payments, like the D35. So I went a got the 4.88's for both my D44 and his D30.

Part 2 - First weekend of wrenching
I swapped my rear D44 in and installed his D35. I inspected everything and I was running this axle just prior to installing it on his rig and it was operating just fine. Since then he says he is getting a clunking sound when shifting into drive or reverse. Basically it the backlash of the locker, otherwise the locker operates just fine for him. Works around the corners just fine etc...

Part 3 - This Saturday, no wrenching,
I call him up this morning to find out when he was going to come over. He tells me he had to work late and that he took the cover off the D35 and said "the backlash just isn't right" "it shouldn't be like that". So since he worked late he said he needed some more sleep.

I said ok unwillingly, and then I went over to his place 3 hours later. Both vechicles in the driveway, the XJ had the rear diff cover off. I check the diff, yes there is backlash, just like a lock-right should, the pinion is tight and the gears are meshing fine. Everything look good to me. I knocked on the door no answer, so I went back home. I tried calling, no answer and left a message. So basically I went over again and tried to call him one more time. I felt if I did any more than this, I think I would consider myself a stalker.

Part 4 - The Decision
What should I do with him? He is either lying dead in his house or he is having buyers remorse over the lock-right. I don't have time to wait around until he feels like swapping axles. If he has a good excuse, fine, if he doesn't. What then?

I do have this option. I have a disco D30. I can regear it and make it work for my needs and swap over the knuckles and shafts from the TJ LP D30. A lot more work, but my jeep can remain road worthy. And I'm out maybe $300 and he is stuck with a D35 and a lock-right that he doesn't like.


Don't you guys just love the drama of owning a jeep?

ChuckD said:

Part 2 - First weekend of wrenching
I swapped my rear D44 in and installed his D35. I inspected everything and I was running this axle just prior to installing it on his rig and it was operating just fine. Since then he says he is getting a clunking sound when shifting into drive or reverse. Basically it the backlash of the locker, otherwise the locker operates just fine for him. Works around the corners just fine etc...

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Might that also be the driveshaft splines clunking in and out? Depending what he knows (and that sounds questionable) it could be that's what he is experiencing. Of course you need to find the foo' first to do anything. As for the rest of the deal - I can't tell you how to proceed, but it sounds like he's having buyer's remorse or other issues...

It's the pinion, you can do about 1/8 of a turn before the cariier grabs the axle shafts.

I talked with ZPD last night, he said he has the exact same expierience with his Lock-Right in his D44.

I definately have some increased backlash with the No-Slip in my 44.
Must be a Powertrax thing...

ChuckD said:

It's the pinion, you can do about 1/8 of a turn before the cariier grabs the axle shafts.

I talked with ZPD last night, he said he has the exact same expierience with his Lock-Right in his D44.

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Right before I pulled it to swap into another Jeep, I noticed my 44 (25k on full spool, new gears & shafts) had about 30* of 'play' at the pinion. I pulled the cover and found the slop was all where the splines meet...the gear setup was still OK.

woody said:

Right before I pulled it to swap into another Jeep, I noticed my 44 (25k on full spool, new gears & shafts) had about 30* of 'play' at the pinion. I pulled the cover and found the slop was all where the splines meet...the gear setup was still OK.

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I rocked the ring up and down to check the gear backlash, it was as tight as it should be, but that was by hand not by gauge.


Is there in Non-tech advise, this in on the non-tech board.

My guess is he does not like the noise, it is probably spooking him. You need to get him around some others with lockers so that he sees and hears it as normal.

The first time I had one, a real locker, it scared the *rap out of me while I was taking it out of the dealers parking lot, geeze that thing banged and I locked up the brakes and swung out of the truck sofast that I scared my girlfriend. I was expecting to see pieces on the ground. Even the sales guy came running over, he'd never heard one before either. The service manager came strolling over and said 'Thats normal' then demonstrated it with two other cars, 426 hemi cuda and 440 challenger. I've always been used to Limited slips which are quiet.
One question though, I've only had ONE real locker, is that constant 'lock unlock' banging bad for them, can you damage a locker by having it lock and unlock excessivley ???

The "excessive" backlash is a normal thing about automatic lockers. This gives them the ability to lock or unlock. So the noise and the clunking sounds are just normal operating sounds from the locker.

ChuckD said:

I rocked the ring up and down to check the gear backlash, it was as tight as it should be, but that was by hand not by gauge.


Is there in Non-tech advise, this in on the non-tech board.

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Not any more it isn't :lickout:

I dunno how much spline-slop between the shafts & the (locker, side gears etc) is really OK...little-to-none being ideal I suppose? Or do twisted axle splines grip the diff too tight, masking the impending doom?

Chuck, what do the shaft ends look like? (I know, mid-sale isn't a great time to be exploring component wear ) If it makes you or dude feel any more fuzzy, I didn't change a thing on mine, and wheeled it pretty hard a few times last season... I 'need' to peek in on my shafts before this year though...

I may be all wrong, but I think that auto-lockers seek an 'always locked' mode, and when they 'unlock' it's to let the faster rotating wheel override the driven side (ratcheting ahead of the torque) in a turn. The 'locking' comes when the wheel speeds equalize (?) with the inside wheel catching up to the outside.

Personally, I would hesitate in dealing with people who are not well educated about what they are buying. Did the guy ride in or drive your XJ with the D35 still installed? Definately sounds like buyers remorse to me. If he doesn't want to do the front axle swap because of the problem with the rear, then it will only cost him more money and time in the long run. If you have an alternative axle to build then build it. Let him deal with swapping in his original axle, or regearing his front by himself. Yeah, you may lose out on a good deal, but so is he. Sounds like this guy has no real experience as to how lockers work both on and off road.

Just as an option. Do you still have the spider gears from the original D35 carrier? It will require some work on your part, but pull the lock right out and swap in the spiders. Have him drive it and see if it is better, then at that point if he doesn't want the lock right, tell him how to sell it on e-bay.

Sometimes, it is just better to give the parts away then sell them. :anon:

Bryan

Bryan C. said:

Sometimes, it is just better to give the parts away then sell them. :anon:

Bryan

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Yea or at least sell something you got for free and ship it very far away.

He doesl have the spiders, and I was going to check the shafts, since he only has three extra sets. That's the thing, it's all about time. I have very little, two kids and wife who works fulltime. I have a one weekend a month drill, for my Guard Duty. Schedules can get pretty tight. I'm all for helping him out, but the guy just wants to hide and avoid me. So I'm leaning towards just cutting my losses and move on with the disco axle.

Thanks for your guys support! ROCKS!

woody said:

Not any more it isn't :lickout:

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I didn't know that moral dilema's were considered Tech! :looney:

Acually there is some decent tech stuff in here huh. I guess my techical mind just oozes out of me. :moon:

I think that he will come whining around when he realizes that he can't use his 4wd. Then the price for the front axle may have gone up in the mean time. Then he can have "slackers remorse" I mean he did make you waist a whole Saturday doing yard work and other horable stuff like that. At least pull the 297 shafts out. He won't ever notice, he will never see any "real" off road time.

When I'm there next friday I'ld be happy to show him how much play I have in my detroit. Whats wrong with a little clunk anyways?

He may be feeling ripped off right now too since he probably thinks there is something wrong with it, so just keep that in mind. PM'd ya

Well, here is an update.

No ill feelings between us. He still thinks there is something wrong with the axle. We still have not had a chance to do further analysis. I still contend there is nothing wrong with it.

So this is what he is going to do. He is going to go to a local Axle guy here in Fresno and get a detroit for his orginial D35 which is geared 3.55. He is going to pay $700 for this locker and the install. I know the shop he is going to, and they do awsome work, but they charge way too much for me. At least he isn't going to 4WP.

So, now I'm out $300, because he isn't going to buy my fornt axle. He said he will kit me over a hundred if I help him sell some of his tires and the Lock-right D35 axle. Lucky for me I've have buyers for both.

Once this is all done, I hope he has the same problems with that Detroit and maybe even blows an axle shaft on the trail so I can leave him there! :firedevil

I'm done dealing with neighbors!

Hey Chuck, I hear the guy down the street from you has a bridge for sale. Good price too!! :moon:

Like Basalt said I'll let him listen to my detroit it makes a big clunk. Also it seems like there is not enough backlash on mine but the pattern came out great and when I tried to put more backlash on it it just started to freeze up. Tell the guy he's an idiot and just lost out on a good deal. And I too hope the same clunks come his way.

Neil said:

Hey Chuck, I hear the guy down the street from you has a bridge for sale. Good price too!! :moon:

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Hey, Neil, when I buy that bridge I'm thowing you off it!