i got hit today

[biscuitboy87]

2000 xj sport auto. some kid doing donusts in the parking lot got out of control and plowed the back of my cherokee. pushed it into the car in front of it. the damage is extensive. the vehicle was parked. the information i am looking for here is how to convince his insurance to consider it a total loss, because now there are ripples all the way down the side. front and rear bumpers toast. front wheel now makes rubbing noise. back wheels look a little toed in. any advice...sob stories etc... i am sad. thanks in advance cuase i cant type and cry at the same time...

[biscuitboy87]

i dont know if this is technical, but i need advice. my 2000xjsport auto got hit by some kid doing donuts. my truck was parked on side of road. the damage to the back is extensive and now there are wrinkles down the side as well. the front bumper is unhinged (to say the least) and there is now rubbing of the front wheels. how do i convince the kids insurance that this unibody can never be returned to as good as new. i didnt even have plates for it yet. thanks for any advice on this matter as far as things to look for...

[Kejtar]

Do not go to mom and pop body shops, but go to a dealership and have them do an estimate. The insurance company should be responsible for that charge. ALso do not let the insurance company guy go through it and declare it all good and repairable: IIRC in almost every state you have the right to a second opinion and you have the right to request for a reputable shop to do the work (in this case I'd again suggest a dealership that has a body shop on premises).

[91xjtim]

I got reareneded today...for the third time since ive owned the jeep. However, unlike the other two times where I just had a scratch this time the guy hit me good enough where I need to replace my bumper. Hopefully though the insurance will give me enough to replace my leafs, bumper and hitch:)

[biscuitboy87]

Do not go to mom and pop body shops, but go to a dealership and have them do an estimate. The insurance company should be responsible for that charge. ALso do not let the insurance company guy go through it and declare it all good and repairable: IIRC in almost every state you have the right to a second opinion and you have the right to request for a reputable shop to do the work (in this case I'd again suggest a dealership that has a body shop on premises).
thank you. i was definately looking for technical issues on this. things like it was in park...so what would that do to the driveline...he pushed it into another car, about 4 to 5 feet. structural things like the creeses in the sides at the pillars. and the front end damage which is on the same side as the rear damage. even the drip rails are sagging now. its not a total loss but i have only enjoyed this thing for three weeks...i want it to track the same way etc...thanks again tho for the dealer body estimates and stuff. i expect the ins co. to lowball me...

[RichP]

Have them replace it with the EXACT model, color, milage, options and condition or cough up the dough. For every low ball repair place they send you to take it to a dealer, counter every low ball with your own high ball, DEMAND OEM replacement parts, thats a right on a vehicle that new. As for it being in park, thats not a good thing at all. At a minimum I would hold out for a new tranny and transfer case.
This should not even be an issue, first you were not even in the vehicle, two it was parked, three the kid was being a peckerhead that in itself is worth alot :D

I had a neighbor at my inlaws house back out of his driveway without looking, he was in a snit over something. Punched my drivers door, front fender and part of my bed on my S10 in a good 8", when I called my insurance company and reported it they were asking all kinds of leading questions till one, 'what were you doing' my reply 'I was inside watching TV' end of that discussion, they said they would take care of it, go pickup a rental car. My insurance company went after them like a bad attitude junkyard dog, ended up with a new paint job because the bright yellow was so hard to match and a whole new interior so that the seat matched the new door panel, truck was 3 years old. Good luck... Be happy no one was hurt.

[Erik the Red]

As you collect repair estimates from various body shops, you will probably get a better idea of the true extent of the damage as well as get a feel for the leverage you might have in persuading your insurance company to total out your rig. Don't be surprised if your insurance company resists if the repair estimates don't come close to the FMV of your truck. If this happens, your best tactic is play the waiting game. Many people think that if they don't settle quickly then their insurer has no continuing duty to process the claim. Not true, but insurance companies love to foster this misconception! In actuality, insurance companies want to close files quickly and can usually accomplish this because most claimants either want to or have to get their cars on the road ASAP, and haven't the stomach to fight with their insurer for a year. Another reason insurance companies want to close files quickly is that an unresolved claim can raise an inference that the company is acting in bad faith. If you can demonstrate a tenacity to slug it out for--and I hate to say this--6 months to over a year, then you stand a good chance of prevailing.

Erik
88 Comance

[Eagle]

i expect the ins co. to lowball me...

You should not expect that.

The other kid hit your Jeep. In legalese, you are entitled to be "made whole," which means having your vehicle restored to the condition it was in prior to the hit, or have it replaced if that is not possible.

First, you have a right to have your vehicle repaired at the shop of YOUR choice. They cannot tell you where to take it.

Second, especially for a fairly new vehicle, you are entitled to have any repairs made using parts of the same quality as the originals -- i.e. factory parts. You should have the vehicle towed to a repair shop YOU choose, and have them prepare an estimate to repair it TO LIKE NEW CONDITION using all factory parts. The insurance company adjuster then gets to discuss the estimate with the shop, but the bottom line is if the shop says they can't fix it RIGHT for what the adjuster is willing to pay, you tell the company you're not signing off on the claim.

This is (was) a fairly new XJ. Is there a loan on it? If so you must have collision insurance. You may have it anyway. If so, talk to your own company. It may be more efficient and more effective to deal with your own company. Initially, you pay the deductable, but your company will then go after the other company. It's called "subrogation," and it goes on every day. When the other company pays your company, you get the deductable back and there are no marks against your policy. YOUR company, working with YOUR body shop, may be more likely to declare it a total. Your own company's adjuster has the same certifications that the other company's adjuster has, so they can't argue. Basically, they just pay up and shut up.

[churky89]

You get pics of the damage?I was told by a guy I know that"digital pics" were not acceptable to an insurance co.Get one of those 1 time cameras,take pics ffrom all angles.
Was there a police report made?

[woody]

When shopping for body shops...don't rule out taking it to a upscale dealer (BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus etc...) for those estimates.

I don't know if you have any aftermarket parts (tires/wheels, lift, bumpers, lights etc...) that were added on before the wreck, but if so, be sure to document their value.

[biscuitboy87]

again you guys have come up with good advice. i thank you. as far as replacement...this car was driven by me off the lot three weeks ago and it was cherry inside and out, with the exception of 60,000 miles. i have never had a new car before (always hooptys). what really kills me is if you look down the drip rail you can see that the whole vehicle was turned into a bannana and like and aluminum can, once smashed always smashed. i will take the jeep to the dealers and see what they say...i think somebody said get three estimates. the police said that since the kid left a note, no report was necessary. i will go take pictures with a camera other than digital today, because i could see how a digiphoto could be manipulated...good advice.
on a positive note nobody was hurt and there will be some more xj parts out there soon. thanks guys (and gals) and i will let you all know the outcome of this.

[XJourney]

What it is going to depend on is which insurance company the kid has.
Hope he doesn't have Progressive, Gieco, or any other low cost insurance, they will try and low ball you. That is how they get low rates
The BEST insurance companies are State Farm, Allstate and Safeco.

I am not sure how it is in your state but in Washington YOU have the final say for which shop does the repairs. Let the shop battle it out with the insurance companies. Oh and watch out for Adjustors 85% are bad apples and have never worked on a car and have NO idea what it takes to repair them. Most even get a bonus for LOW payouts in a month.


Kejtar Not all mom and pop shops are bad. I work for a mom and pop shop, We have 4 employees + pop. We are one of the most, if not the most expensive shop in the county. We do all the New Off the truck Cadillacs, Corvettes, Hondas, and VWs from the local dealerships.

[sidriptide]

i suggest going to your insurance co. .. a few years back a guy clipped my rear quarter and basically ripped my rear bumper off.. after i was done with him i went directly to the police dept and filed an incident report.. not required but it was reported.... and my next stop was my own insurance co, i walked in and said "this is what happened.. what do i do?" they handled everything.. i got 3 estimates and chose my own shop.. my ins co covered all repairs and a rental and what-not.. i even got them to spend the same $$ as a stock bumper on an aftermarket bumper instead.... THEY persued the other ins co and i was on my merry way.... if they total it find out about a "buy back" and make it a trail rig!!! or sell it as a trail rig, be a shame to waste all those good parts

mike

[Eagle]

If the unibody has been tweaked enough to see it in the roof drip rail, it will be very difficult to repair correctly and safely. Better shops do have frame machines and jigs that allow pulling a bent unibody into shape, but they are thereafter always a bit weaker than the original structure.

Your state's laws may be different from mine. Here, a report is necessary for any accident involving personal injury or exceeding a certain $$$ amount. The amount has increased and I don't remember what it is, but it used to be $500 so anything like what you describe would be far over the limit. But my insurance company prefers a police report anyway, so you should file it. If a cop came and declined to take the report, he was not acting "to serve and protect." Around here most police officers know the rules and they automatically file a report when asked, so the insurance company can get the piece of paper.

Take it to a couple of good shops (or take the shop managers to it, I assume it isn't driveable) and get them to sign a statement that the unibody is bent and the vehicle cannot be safely repaired. That should do it.

[biscuitboy87]

If the unibody has been tweaked enough to see it in the roof drip rail, it will be very difficult to repair correctly and safely. Better shops do have frame machines and jigs that allow pulling a bent unibody into shape, but they are thereafter always a bit weaker than the original structure.

Your state's laws may be different from mine. Here, a report is necessary for any accident involving personal injury or exceeding a certain $$$ amount. The amount has increased and I don't remember what it is, but it used to be $500 so anything like what you describe would be far over the limit. But my insurance company prefers a police report anyway, so you should file it. If a cop came and declined to take the report, he was not acting "to serve and protect." Around here most police officers know the rules and they automatically file a report when asked, so the insurance company can get the piece of paper.

Take it to a couple of good shops (or take the shop managers to it, I assume it isn't driveable) and get them to sign a statement that the unibody is bent and the vehicle cannot be safely repaired. That should do it.
thanks eagle...the officer was an a-hole and certainly didnt foster any good will for the burlingame CA police dept. i will call the bodyshop managers to see if they will come to me rather than tow the vehicle. it starts...because its a jeep! and it will drive, i am just weary of how the damage will affect it over any distance longer than my driveway. i would hate to have something go wrong and then be responsible for somebody elses life and limb. again the advice on this forum is much appreciated. hopefully sooner than later i will get to meet some of you guys out on the trails. thanks again.

[Yucca-Man]

thanks eagle...the officer was an a-hole and certainly didnt foster any good will for the burlingame CA police dept.OMG - that's hilarious! My g/f lives in Burlingame and had her car broken into while she was out here a few weeks ago. One of her tenants told her about it, but the Burlingame PD wouldn't take a report over the phone, and the officers wouldn't take a report from the tenant so the car sat there with broken glass for a week. Better yet, they actually found her stolen stuff but the Keystone Kops in the detective dept couldn't locate it in their evidence room...until two weeks after she got it back.

(Edit) Did the kid who hit you stick around? If he left, the cops HAVE to take a report as it's a hit-n-run. Was this on private property; they apparently don't have to take a report in that case unless there are criminal charges as well.

For that matter, they often don't want to take the report because it's a budget matter. If a patrol cop takes a report, that's a good hour out of their day. They would prefer you go to the desk and make a report there. I was rear-ended recently on a public street and the officer tried to get the three parties involved to go to the desk to file a report. I "advised" him that since all three of us were present, maybe it would be better if he would just get our info now...he grudgingly accepted that idea. (/edit)

[Tom R.]

I'm reminded of a buddy who got into an accident with his then new 2001 XJ that caused extensive damage to the front. Even though it was completely repaired using OEM parts, it developed (real) death wobble. After he endured two years of DW and many unsuccessful attempts to fix it, he had to sell it. BTW, it was a stock XJ.

Obviously the point is for you to make sure you're not left with a problem vehicle if all insurance parties say it can be fixed. Best of luck.

[biscuitboy87]

OMG - that's hilarious! My g/f lives in Burlingame and had her car broken into while she was out here a few weeks ago. One of her tenants told her about it, but the Burlingame PD wouldn't take a report over the phone, and the officers wouldn't take a report from the tenant so the car sat there with broken glass for a week. Better yet, they actually found her stolen stuff but the Keystone Kops in the detective dept couldn't locate it in their evidence room...until two weeks after she got it back.

(Edit) Did the kid who hit you stick around? If he left, the cops HAVE to take a report as it's a hit-n-run. Was this on private property; they apparently don't have to take a report in that case unless there are criminal charges as well.

For that matter, they often don't want to take the report because it's a budget matter. If a patrol cop takes a report, that's a good hour out of their day. They would prefer you go to the desk and make a report there. I was rear-ended recently on a public street and the officer tried to get the three parties involved to go to the desk to file a report. I "advised" him that since all three of us were present, maybe it would be better if he would just get our info now...he grudgingly accepted that idea. (/edit)
the kid, to his credit, left a note on my windshield. here in CA it is felony hit and run if you dont at least leave a note. he did not bother to contact me personally though. i know that they are going to try to fix it, but i am going to push for a replacement due to the fact that there are wrinkles in the pillars around the back windows and the front bumper bolts were torn off of the frame horn shaped thingies. the hood doesnt open smoothly either, and the hatch wont open at all. i looked underneath and couldnt see anything major, but as we know, sometimes problems show up after the fact. i have been dealing with the burlingame police most of my life and i must say that the older guys tend to be more helpful, but none of them will get out of their car if they can help it.

[XJourney]

If the unibody has been tweaked enough to see it in the roof drip rail, it will be very difficult to repair correctly and safely. Better shops do have frame machines and jigs that allow pulling a bent unibody into shape, but they are thereafter always a bit weaker than the original structure.

Eagle I REALLY hate to disagree with you. But unibodies are the EASIEST to fix, far easier then any framed vehicle. With unibody (if done by a reputable I-car certified shop) can be brought back to A+ quality. In fact I-CAR regularly wrecks cars and rebuilds them and then wrecks them again and repairs them and wrecks them again. And that is how the I-car standards come about.

Every car that I fix, has to be able to be as safe as one that is never wrecked. Or my arse is on the line. I am liable for any repairs I do. You just pull it back straight and then proceed to replace anything that is kinked, crumpled and/or bent.

I choose the XJ BECAUSE it is a unibody.

[Eagle]

Eagle I REALLY hate to disagree with you. But unibodies are the EASIEST to fix, far easier then any framed vehicle. With unibody (if done by a reputable I-car certified shop) can be brought back to A+ quality. In fact I-CAR regularly wrecks cars and rebuilds them and then wrecks them again and repairs them and wrecks them again. And that is how the I-car standards come about.

Every car that I fix, has to be able to be as safe as one that is never wrecked. Or my arse is on the line. I am liable for any repairs I do. You just pull it back straight and then proceed to replace anything that is kinked, crumpled and/or bent.

I choose the XJ BECAUSE it is a unibody.

A unibody can be straightened. But after that it's always weaker. Bending and straightening metal causes work hardening and localized embrittlement.

I've been driving unibody vehicles since the mid-60s and I prefer them. But if my XJ were hit hard enough to bend the unibody, I'd scrap it and never look back. I would never feel safe in it.

[Kejtar]

But if my XJ were hit hard enough to bend the unibody, I'd scrap it and never look back. I would never feel safe in it.

Close Eagle, but it should read: scrap it, look back, buy it back and hack it up :)

[Eagle]

Close Eagle, but it should read: scrap it, look back, buy it back and hack it up :)

NFW

If I didn't think the unibody was stiff enough to drive to the supermarket, why would I think it might be stiff enough for trail use? I'm not in a position to ignore the unibody and make it a tube buggy like OneTon's -- for me, the XJ has to do the job, and I would not trust one with a tweaked unibody.

[basalt51]

Read this link. You may want to search around some more:
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/sr/sr1.htm

Now since the vehicle was unoccupied at the time, it may not be considered a "traffic accident".


Also, be sure you ask the autobody whether the workers are paid by the hour, or by the job. In Sacramento they are by the job and therefore do HORRIBLY sloppy and fast work. I hit someone in my Dakota when they lost control and swerved into my lane. I took it to the "recommended" dealer in my area. They estimated $5000 and when I got it back there was over-spray on my windows, inside, between the cab and the bed, there were dripps all over. Total Crap. Find an hourly place.

[Dawg Cherokee]

[QUOTE=PNW01XJ]Oh and watch out for Adjustors 85% are bad apples and have never worked on a car and have NO idea what it takes to repair them. Most even get a bonus for LOW payouts in a month.QUOTE]

Saying that 85% of adjustors are bad apples and get bonuses for low payments is almost as stupid as saying 90% of body shop workers charge for new parts while putting on used. By the way, when your bill charges for an hour's work, how long does it actually take you to perform it? If it is less then 60 minutes do you refund it to the customer?

[biscuitboy87]

update. the kids truck is a ford lightning. from what i understand this is how it is going to work. there will be no true compensation. i can take it and get three estimates but if the insurence company decides that the "shop" isnt quoting area rates then i have to pay the difference. they will fix all apparent problems. and anything in the future related to the accident. if i take the vehicle off road all gaurantees are void. i wasnt planning on doing that until i have the money i took from the bank to pay for it back in the bank. i guess now it doesnt matter. i'm glad i found this site because i am sure things will arise from this down the road. i really appreciate everybodys stories and feed back. lessons i have learned so far are californias insurance laws suck. the real value of a new vehicle lays not in the price but in the dependability and piece of mind and freedom that dependability brings, and insurance companies cannot put a dollar value on that. so far i am not sure if i can go after the kid and parents in court because i am dissatisfied with the claim, but that all remains to be seen. oddly enough i have to take time out of my work day to deal with the adjusters, again there is no monetary compensation. heres the clincher...if i take the car back to the shop for gaurantee work i have to prove it is a result of the collision BEFORE the insurance will cover it.

[Kejtar]

update. the kids truck is a ford lightning. from what i understand this is how it is going to work. there will be no true compensation. i can take it and get three estimates but if the insurence company decides that the "shop" isnt quoting area rates then i have to pay the difference. they will fix all apparent problems. and anything in the future related to the accident. if i take the vehicle off road all gaurantees are void. i wasnt planning on doing that until i have the money i took from the bank to pay for it back in the bank. i guess now it doesnt matter. i'm glad i found this site because i am sure things will arise from this down the road. i really appreciate everybodys stories and feed back. lessons i have learned so far are californias insurance laws suck. the real value of a new vehicle lays not in the price but in the dependability and piece of mind and freedom that dependability brings, and insurance companies cannot put a dollar value on that. so far i am not sure if i can go after the kid and parents in court because i am dissatisfied with the claim, but that all remains to be seen. oddly enough i have to take time out of my work day to deal with the adjusters, again there is no monetary compensation. heres the clincher...if i take the car back to the shop for gaurantee work i have to prove it is a result of the collision BEFORE the insurance will cover it.

You sure this is right? I'm in CA and this definately doesn't sound right. I'm trying to remember right now where is the local (SoCal) insurance guy (don't remember who he works for, but he works for one of the bigger companies)... I think he hangs out at the SoCalXJ mailing list, so sign on to that (www.socalxj.com) on yahoo groups and ask about anyone who you can talk to about insurance and rules and so on and he should help you out.... In any case, IMHO you're about to get shafted :( and that's not right.

[Eagle]

CONSULT AN ATTORNEY -- IMMEDIATELY

I'm not in California, but insurance laws don't vary that much from state to state. I think you are being lied to.

Who told you that?

Do you have collision insurance, and if so have you spoken to your own company about getting it repaired and then subrogating?

And what happened about getting it declared a total? Shouldn't be that difficult on a unibody vehicle to jack the estimates up to more than the blue book value of the vehicle. If it were me in your situation, I would not want the vehicle back. I would fight tooth and nail to have it totalled so I could replace it with one that has not been bent.

[Kejtar]

Also, there was an article on I think MSN autos about 6 months ago or so about how if vehicle gets fixed you might be entitled to a one time payout on top of everything as the resale value of your vehicle just went out the window... I tried looking for it now and of course when it's needed, I can't find it:(

In any case good luck and keep us updated.

[Eagle]

That's an excellent point. Wasn't even a factor if the shop did a decent repair job ... until recently. Now everyone has access to CarFax and it's almost a given that a prospective buyer will find out it was in an accident and bargain accordingly, regardless of how good the repair is.

I still think you should hold out for a total. Call a lawyer -- he hit you, they should pay for the lawyer as well as the vehicle. Initial consultations are usually free so you nothing to lose except time. Just don't let the kid's insurance company pressure you into accepting anything you are unsure about or unhappy about. THEY are holding the short end of the stick here.

[Kejtar]

That's an excellent point. Wasn't even a factor if the shop did a decent repair job ... until recently. Now everyone has access to CarFax and it's almost a given that a prospective buyer will find out it was in an accident and bargain accordingly, regardless of how good the repair is.

I still think you should hold out for a total. Call a lawyer -- he hit you, they should pay for the lawyer as well as the vehicle. Initial consultations are usually free so you nothing to lose except time. Just don't let the kid's insurance company pressure you into accepting anything you are unsure about or unhappy about. THEY are holding the short end of the stick here.

Oh and a bit of advice in regards to the lawyers: do get someone that specializes in accidents, and do not get anyone big like Larry H Parker or someone like that. Guy at work made that mistake and he's getting a runaround as he's just one of the "numbers". In any case, the lawyer should not charge you anything for consulation but will most likely work on a "settlement percentage issue.... But before you get yourself into something that deep, find the insurance guy on SoCalXJ....

[Dawg Cherokee]

Before spending $ on a lawyer, you might want to wait a day or three and see what the insurance company and the body shop say. Who knows, maybe they'll agree with you and total it out.

I can guarantee that the other insurance will not pay for the attorney fees you incur. The attorney will probably not do much for free and won't be very interested in a non-injury case since there isn't much money in it. If you sign a contingency fee agreement, be prepared to give up 1/3 of whatever you get paid.

Good luck and let us know how everything is coming along.

[Teron]

One, this BS about digital pics not being accepted...
I've unfortunately had 3 accidents over the past several years, 2 of 3 not my fault, and the other is arguably not mine, but johnny law says it was.

Anyhow, each adjuster used a digi-camera for the pics, and that's all they've been using around here since 98.

I'm probably repeating stuff already said, but hey, why not?

YOUR insurance company is there to protect YOU, don't even listen or reply to anything with their insurance company. (I learned this from experience, it'll mess things up). Is this flaky info you've received from your insurance, or theirs? IMO you're paying your insurance company to protect you and there's no need to hire an attorney. It might sound good, but in the end it may end up costing you...

Buy back the XJ for a percentage if you can, but do NOT accept to have it repaired, insist it's not safe anymore. With it being that new, and not your fault you have every right to refuse it be repaired and insist it be totaled, which it should be based on the damage you've stated.
The 96 XJ I had that was damaged by a potential buyer on a test drive drove through a chain link fence, and into a pole(then backed up under it again) was totaled. The rear quarter panel underneath the large 2 door window was severely dented in and I was nervous the window was going to blow out. It had cosmetic damage on every panel, it ran/drove just fine though. Insurance totaled mine out as the estimate to repair it all was very close to book value, and in my opinion the rear dent would never ever be repaired properly or to a structurally safe state, the whole vehicle also needed repainted due to deep scratches in every panel and the roof.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Teron

[92jeeper]

Just a little info here. I was hit while my Jeep was sitting outfront of my house. I have the arb bull bar which saved everything on my jeep. The 4runner that hit me wasn't so lucky. All it did to the bull bar was scratch it. But, since he did it, I printed out the price from quadratec and gave it to his insurance company, and i got a check for $1000 which covered the bull bar and labor time to have it installed, and the money for a new fender flare and shop time on that as well. If ANYTHING got damaged, even just scratched, document it and report it. His company should cover it. Just my $.02
Tylor

[92jeeper]

Oh, and I agree. Take it to any dealer for any labor estimates. You don't have to have the work done there, but they will give you the highest estimates.

[biscuitboy87]

thanks again guys. i am going through the dealer and their body shop. the kids insurance will pay for repairs and gaurantee any future problems related to the accident. i figure i'll drive it for a year as a work truck, then give it to my brother to use up in oregon on the farm. my girlfriend said she would help me "monster garage" it...if i had known that a wrecked jeep would mean we could spend more time together, i would have gotten out a hammer a long time ago! i think this insurance/crash experience will turn out for the positive.
thanks again for the advice. i will let you all know how it drives after the repairs. if it drives differently...has anybody ever chopped the top off and welded the rear doors shut? and the lift gate? box bronco style?