• Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.

Deeper than 5.13 for 14 Bolt

csudman

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Statesville, NC
Simple ques. i guess. Why arent there deeper gears then 5.13's for 14 Bolts. Seems like superior or someone would make them. I'd say theres definetly a market.

As long as im postin. How deep would you go with an auto and 38's or so. I'm still not set on tire size.
 
pretty positive that thats as low as they go. and 5 13 is what most people that i have seen run with 38's.

stoney
 
I understand that thats as low as they go. But I wanna no if there actualy a physical reason. Like they wouldnt fit on the carrier or somthin. I really cant think of a reason. I mean come on. ARB in making a locker for it. Theres a full spool avalible soon. Its a highly used axle.
 
Its a highly used axle.

Let's not get carried away, a couple of thousand four wheelers across the country does not qualify an axle as being highly used.

I'm not sure if there is a physical reason, other than the pinion support bearing housing may get in the way of extremely low gearsets.

CRASH
 
Yeah I guess so. Danas are used in alot more than 4x4's for other purposes. I just thought Id ask. I mean. W/ all the crazy stuff that gettin built over on pirate. I figured that someone might have the access to the tooling required to make a run of deeper gears. I realize their forged, I think. And that there really hard to make. This whole thing is more of an observation than a ques. Well anyway, If somebody did build some deep stuff. Id be in for one.
 
csudman said:
Yeah I guess so. Danas are used in alot more than 4x4's for other purposes. I just thought Id ask. I mean. W/ all the crazy stuff that gettin built over on pirate. I figured that someone might have the access to the tooling required to make a run of deeper gears. I realize their forged, I think. And that there really hard to make. This whole thing is more of an observation than a ques. Well anyway, If somebody did build some deep stuff. Id be in for one.

Yes, it's a fine idea, I'm sure it will eventually come to fruition.

Gears sets are expensive to design and build, so there needs to be a pretty big demand to justify a run of forgings.

CRASH
 
I personally don't see a need for anything lower. If you wan't really low gears just get a lower 4-low of a klune. I think that they would have to make the teeth too thin and they would sheer with all the power most people send to their 14 bolt.
 
Abugarcia said:
I personally don't see a need for anything lower. If you wan't really low gears just get a lower 4-low of a klune. I think that they would have to make the teeth too thin and they would sheer with all the power most people send to their 14 bolt.


I think you are wrong.

5.13's are adequate for 35's and a 4.0.

38's scream for 5.38's.

Perhaps you have never driven on these large piles of earth and rock that we out West like to call mountains?

CRASH
 
CRASH said:
I think you are wrong.

5.13's are adequate for 35's and a 4.0.

38's scream for 5.38's.

Perhaps you have never driven on these large piles of earth and rock that we out West like to call mountains?

CRASH
So you go with a 3" taller tire and only change the gearing by .25? How does that make sence?
 
Abugarcia said:
So you go with a 3" taller tire and only change the gearing by .25? How does that make sence?
That's about a 4% gear ratio change, and about 8% tire size change. However, I think what he was implying was that yes, there is a need for gears lower than 5.13.
 
According to my math and using my XJ as an example to get an equivalent gear ratio to stock I would run 4.022 gears. This is going from stock 29" tires with 3.07 gears to 38" tires.
How about 44's:4.657

Even if I have 3.55's from the factory and I wanted 42's: 5.141

If you need to just drive without overdrive or the next gear down.

All this is based for on road driving. I agree that the lower the gears the better when off-road, but that is why we have low range.

my .02
 
Abugarcia said:
According to my math and using my XJ as an example to get an equivalent gear ratio to stock I would run 4.022 gears. This is going from stock 29" tires with 3.07 gears to 38" tires.
How about 44's:4.657

Even if I have 3.55's from the factory and I wanted 42's: 5.141

If you need to just drive without overdrive or the next gear down.

All this is based for on road driving. I agree that the lower the gears the better when off-road, but that is why we have low range.

my .02

Almost sounds good on paper except you forgot to figure in the additional rolling resistance and weight of the bigger tires. Not only are they taller but wider as well which adds greatly to the rolling resistance.... and lest we not forget some sort of resistance would be figured in for the added air resistance / drag of the more aggresive tread design at highway speeds. :lecture:
Mike B.
 
This has only been addressed a few hundred times, so once more should be about right.

Why on earth would you compare your rig on 38s to your rig on its stock tires? Doing so will get you an equivalent gear ratio, but the gear ratio will be the ONLY thing that's equivalent. Jeep chose the stock gears to work well with everything the way they made it. Consider how a rig running 38s differs from when it was stock.

First you're going to need to put a big lift on it to fit those meats. That means your rig is sitting way up there in the wind, and dragging all its running gear through the wind now too. This rig on 38s is likely to have a few things added to its exterior that will also cause more drag - like a 38 inch spare, roof rack or exo, big bumper and winch, extra antenna(s), etc. All that stuff makes pushing that XJ through the air much more difficult than it was stock. But we're just getting started. (Mind you, these points are in no particular order.)

Next let's consider how much this rig on 38s weighs. Have you ever looked at what a 38 inch tire weighs? Especially a bias mud tire? You're talking hundreds of pounds of additional unsprung rotational weight. Add the weight of a 38 inch spare. Add the additonal weight of axles beefy enough to handle 38s. Add in the extra weight of heavier bumpers, winch, HiLift, tools, spare parts, etc. All of a sudden this rig on 38s weighs on helluva lot more than it did when it was on the design board being assigned an axle gear ratio.

How about the rolling resistance of a 38 inch tire? Especially a bias mud tire? You think it might take a tad more oomph to roll an XJ on 38s than it does to roll one on 225/75R15s?

Let's consider reasonably anticipated use for a moment. A stock XJ can be expected to serve duty running interstates at 80 or 90 miles an hour. I hope anyone running 38s on an XJ has the good sense to keep their top speed a good deal lower than that, regardless of what they've done to their brakes and running gear. At the other end of the spectrum, a stock XJ crawls around pretty well at slow speeds on its dinky little tires, but an XJ on 38s will be struggling to roll those 38s over every individual tread block with an "equivalent" gear ratio. What effect do you suppose lugging around with too tall a gear will have on either your clutch or your auto tranny? In a word: HEAT. And in case you haven't heard before now, heat kills.

I could go on, but I trust I've made the point I sought to make. It is pointless to try to figure appropriate gear ratios for large tire sizes by figuring an "equivalent ratio" to stock. Instead try asking those who've been there and done that. Ask them what gears they are running, on what size tires, on what type of terrain and under what sort of usage, and whether they'd make the same choice again, and why.

okay?
 
Uh sorry but your math is way wrong. I'm running a 44/14B combo and I DO love my rear axle; heavy, big.....YES IT IS and it's STOUT and easy to setup. I shaved it as much as a shade-tree grinder monkey can and I've got about 11.5" under it, that's only an inch & a half less than my slightly shaved D44 front.

I'm running 5.13s with 38.5s and I need more gearing. Unfortunately there isn't any that I've found. 5.38s would be just about right, or maybe 6.13.

-jb

Abugarcia said:
According to my math and using my XJ as an example to get an equivalent gear ratio to stock I would run 4.022 gears. This is going from stock 29" tires with 3.07 gears to 38" tires.
How about 44's:4.657

Even if I have 3.55's from the factory and I wanted 42's: 5.141

If you need to just drive without overdrive or the next gear down.

All this is based for on road driving. I agree that the lower the gears the better when off-road, but that is why we have low range.

my .02
 
Where is that "3.55's and 35's" thread when you need it???

CRASH
 
:D Agree that you can't calculate your gearign in relation to stock settings. I'm at 5.86 with 39.5 Boggers and 37 Army MT/Rs for on road use right now. The gering is a bit low for on road driving but just about right off road with the Boggers.

Last year i ran 38.5s with a 4.56 gearing off road and i always had problems to keep the temperatures of the tranny down, changed burned oil about every other month. I think the extra low gering will keep my drivetrain happy as there is no stress on it any more. :wave:
 
This right here actually makes sence. Thanks I see now why equivalent ratios are only good on paper.

For me I am running 3.07's with 33's on my XJ and 3.55's with 35's on my F-150. I have to agree that they are a bit low (numarically) but they are just fine for me on the road. Although I am going to make the swap when I can.
 
Abugarcia said:
This right here actually makes sence. Thanks I see now why equivalent ratios are only good on paper.

For me I am running 3.07's with 33's on my XJ and 3.55's with 35's on my F-150. I have to agree that they are a bit low (numarically) but they are just fine for me on the road. Although I am going to make the swap when I can.


are you serious!?!? i couldn't STAND 3.07s and 31s, I can't imagine 33s. you may think it's fine because you keep telling yourself that, but it is killing your clutch and gas mileage (assuming it's a 5 speed b/c of the 3.07s). Get some 4.10s or deeper and you WILL thank yourself. Right now I have 33s and 4.10s with a 5 speed and it's perfect on the street, but I will soon have auto,4.88s,35s
 
Back
Top