Buggy-fied XJ/MJ folks speak up!

I'm going through my semi-annual lusting for "something more" and need some honest advice.

You guys who have done extensive tube work & driveline upgrades using the XJ/MJ platform I need some opinions: (Beez, One Ton, Grant, Mark H, Ashman, Crok etc)

#1: Do you consider the 'packaging' constraints of the XJ to be worth the effort to retain? Was your intent to use what you had out of frugality, or did you see some advantages to sticking with the XJ front clip, engine/tranny?

#2: If/when you do it again, will the next project be XJ/MJ based, or will it be a fully "clean slate" buggy-type thing. Was your project a success or do you consider the results less than what your expectations were? (I realize many of your rigs are a 'work in progress' at this stage, and results haven't been evaluated yet)

I guess what I'm hedging at is I have had serious thoughts of getting rid of most (or all) of my XJ & MJ stuff... and ideas of rolling that coin into some fab tools and putting something together. It won't be a Jeep product, I can guarantee that It wouldn't be built as a competitive RC comp car either, but would likely borrow much tech from that sport... maybe I've been over at the Dark Side a bit too much :dunno:

It's not that I dislike the XJs/MJs, especially for a DD/light-duty wheeler, it's just that somedays I feel like I am chucking good $$$ after bad with the trail rig, and I'd be better suited with something less disposable and lots more beefy.

All honest answers and advice welcome...

I'm on my fifth XJ and I'm at this same delema. I'm starting from new a full tube chassis, D70 rear, D60 front, NP205 case and something nasty for an engine probably running 44" Boggers and full coilover suspension. Being a welder by trade makes things a bit easier and I have most of the parts lying around. I considered a sub frame and exo cage but for what it's worth to work around something I think your better off to start from scratch then you can really build what you want. The only problem is it won't fit in my garage. Just my two cents.

It depends on how far you want to take the project. I believe the XJ's excellent performance out of the box is due to their power to weight ratio, and balanced suspension. When you begin to beef the XJ with a subframe, cage, and bumpers, you begin to loose the weight advantage. As you lift higher, it becomes more difficult to keep the suspension balanced.

Are you satisfied with a 4 link + trackbar front and leaf sprung rear? Changing the rear is challenging. Changing the front can be next to impossible. The tight packaging of the motor, exhaust, tranny, and T-case make for a shadetree mechanic's nightmare if you want to ditch the trackbar and leave the axle in the stock location.

That being said, I'm glad I'm trying to buggy the XJ. If (when) I build a buggy, I bet I have a better idea of what I want to accomplish. I know I'll alwats have the XJ.

-Jon

yer screwed, go tj rubi or go home

go suzuki sidekick or go home

Thanks RER, good to hear from someone fresh (?or have ya been among us all along?)

Being a welder by trade or training helps... as does having the garage and tools. (that's topic for another shop-setup thread) I was more of a sheetmetal bitch by training, and haven't struck a AC arc in 10 yrs or so, 20 for the MIG... but that's a minor (more practice with good eqmt.) issue in the bigger scheme of things.

I haven't seriously considered drivelines yet... getting the tools to work with is the first step for any serious work. More on that to follow...

I humbly rescind the No Jeep Junk jab... I am in love with the 200k 4.0/semi-manual AW4 in my 89 trail rig... If the steering box wasn't flopping around like beached willy, I'd add another qt of motor oil and trust it to drive me anywhere & back.

#1 - yes I am cheap and thats why it is still an XJ

#2 - I am already scratch building another buggy with a fair amount of cherokee powertrain but thats about it from the XJ end of things

I think you can make the whole package loads lighter by just scratch building a buggy tube framed rig from the getgo...

Matt

mine will be a full tube to next go around. Unless I find a rolled tj good and cheap! I do plan to use the 4.0, ax 15, dana 300, 44 front I currently have in whatever Ai build next. I find the xj too constrictive to do the things i really want to do. I also want something with a "frame" Much easier to weld to, hack away at...dave

Sidekissers and Newbiecons have there place. A Newbicon would have been cool back in 1997 or so... These days it's like >>----> Ha Ha! you got buttsexed and they go off pouting

I think the Sidekisser and Tracker folks are an untapped market for all the D30/35s us XJ/MJ folks harvest. Not bad little goobers, them... just add paddle tires & nitrous.

Woody:

I think you have to look at why you bought an XJ in the first place, what your motives were then and how they have changed.

You won't be DD'in' in a buggy, nor hauling 3 passengers and a ton o' stuff. It all depends on how your needs have changed. Now that I have a 19 month old son, the XJ is more attractive to me now than ever before!!

I have to say that ya the trackers are a good and untaped. My current DD is a 16valve auto tracker and even with 115k on it it down right scoots. But I'm a big jeep person and will always have a jeep. I plan on doing a buggy but its not going to be a ground up jungle gym. I'm going to use whats left of my MJ to do it. the back half of its getting a torch and pretty much the only thing left will be a the cab and front clip. I've been working all the details out for about 2 years but since my shop isn't built yet Its had to wait and i keep dumping money in the XJ for now. The MJis going to have a custom stepsidebed that will resemble a old willys and that look will go up front as well in the front fenders. it will have an AMC V8 with a 727 and 203/205 TC setup. axles are still up in the air portals look real sweet but it will proble be saved 60 in the front and and either 60 or 14 bolt out back. my goal is for it to still be street able and not get to much crap from the cops. It was a metric ton MJ so the GVW thing will help aswell as the air bag suspention so i can control the ride hight.It will de3ffinatly turn heads with some of the other things that will be done so i vote MJ. you can keep the 4.0 and AW4 and still have a killer rig mine is just to far gone to put it back together.
And Egal don't worry I'm not hacking up a good MJ it is rusted and beat beyond reasonable restoration :angel:

go magnets or go home.

just go home!

Woody, I feel your pain. I'm at the point where I wish I hadn't hacked up my fenders and rear quarter panels and had just sold the XJ and started with something else. I've got this FJ-80 that I've been driving lately(Jeep's been in the shop, dad let me borrow it for a couple days), and I must say this thing is NICE. He paid 9k for it, which is not an entirely small sum of money, but once you consider what it's already got going for it, I wonder why more people don't build 'em. You can run 33s at stock height, 35s with a 2" BB, 37s with 4.5" and mild trimming. It's locked front and rear from the factory with a nifty little in-dash selector switch. It's got great cargo/people capacity and it's still not an ungodly big full-size. I've been thinking long and hard about "finishing" the XJ to make it attractive to a buyer(finish installing flares, and get 4.56s in the 30 to match the ARB'd/geared 8.25), selling it, putting tires/rock rails on the FJ and buying a DD car. This all started from the feeling of "lusting for something more." I currently have two axles in the garage that were slated for the XJ, but I just don't feel the XJ is a good platform to continue to build knowing the limitations of it's structure. My problem is that I love my XJ. It's the first vehicle I've had that has truely been mine, and it's hard to let it go. I also love the power that the 4.0 has compared to the FJ(seriously lacking in that dept.). Damn I'm rambling, I'll shutup now.....you're not alone woody.

Ary

i think the MJ provides much more adaptability for extensive modification. less uni-body issues, more room to link the rear, weighs less, etc

I think this is a pretty good question......one that many deliberate about at some time. I think about it when considering building my MJ into a flat bed.....eventually.

My perspective is this. If all I could do was rock crawl I wouldn't be so interested in wheeling. I really like the rough stuff, but I also like the trails where the scenery and camping are good. I like doing them both, so a buggy wouldn't work for me unless I could afford to have two rigs. I also like exploring and hauling ass through the desert, and most buggies set up to rock crawl can't go fast through the desert.

I also like hanging and wheeling with my XJ friends. I have plenty of friends and club members who have other vehicles, including buggies, and the XJ people are just more fun to be with.......don't know exactly why, just the way it is.

I have a friend here locally that has a buggy (total tube frame) that he built from his XJ drivetrain. He hardly wheels anymore since he can't run it on the street or do the nice camping trips (like Rubicon), just goes to the hard trails in the desert. I know guys run the 'Con in buggies, but they mostly run in to Spider and play in the Box, rather than run with a group of friends and camp along the trail like we do when coming from 8 hours away. He commented to me a couple of days ago that he'd be wheeling a lot more if he still had his Cherokee.

I know the buggies are fun to wheel, and for some stuff they can't be beat. Most of us would like to have one. However, if we remember that we wheel to have fun, it's still fun to wheel a rig at any level of modification, and it's still fun to drive around to various places and wheel and hang with your friends. Just like with anything, sand rails, Harleys, mountain bikes, anything.....there's always the desire to have the best and the greatest. But, is it more FUN to have a purpose built rig rather than a "do many things well" rig? You don't run Upper Proving Grounds at Moab very often.

right on Goatman!


sitting online looking at all the crazy stuff people are doing, especially over on PBB, it's easy to loose perspective. I had TONS of fun wheelin the XJ I used to have with 31s and open diffs. Now that I'm finally getting my MJ setup with 35s, lockers, and pretty near unbreakable, I'm already looking for what's next. Sometimes I just need to smack myself and just go have fun! Even though my imagination continues to wander, I am determined to keep my MJ as a daily driver, comfortable for camping, and not so crazy that I can't have fun on the easier trails.

Another point is that for some of us we like having good heat and a dry place to be when we want to and a nice cool place when its hot as hell outside i used to catch alsorts of crap for my limited with power leather seats and such but now there saying man i wish i had AC.

I agree with Goat (as usual), I bought my Junk to haul the brood around in. And it still does that. It also does gnarly unibody-tweeking rock trails, then I drag what's left home for the kids to park their toys under. The XJ is for hauling all your crap on the trail & back home, no buggy will do that.

I also love my Junk, I paid over $10k when I bought it (stock) and now the body's worth maybe $10 if I throw in a 12 pack, but I wouldn't give it up.

-jb

vintagespeed said:

I also love my Junk, I paid over $10k when I bought it (stock) and now the body's worth maybe $10 if I throw in a 12 pack, but I wouldn't give it up.

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That quote just make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside :cheers:
Billy