Is a long bed MJ too long?

[jaggedsteel]

I bought this long box MJ for $700 (I6 aw4) that I was gonna beat up on the trail but after driving it around town some it seems to turn wide like a boat comapred to my XJ. I think it'll be a bitch on the trail. You guys recently told me I could lift the thing like 6" without a SYE so thats what I was gonna do until I drove it some. This thing just seems so damn long! Is it a stupid idea to wheel it? Should I just get a beater XJ? I've got some fab skills but don't think I trust them enough to chop the thing in the middle and shorten it. What would you do?


Thanks

Mike

[woody]

In some places, I found my 119" WB MJ to be perfect! It can ace some obstacles that make XJs struggle & TJs hung up. OTOH it has a huge amount of rear overhang compared to an XJ (if that's what your used to wheelin) and ya really have to mind where your rear driveshaft is...

I had mine at 6" out back (SOA 44 minus a short overload leaf), 231 and no SYE or case drop. Perfect for 33" with no trimming...

That overhang has kicked my butt a time or three, (get snagged trying to back off an obstacle & the bumper wedged in good) but if you didn't mind giving up some bed, chop it off just behind the shackle hangers...make a simple bumper with tow point and your golden.

IMHO a 113" SWB MJ is probably the better wheeler of the two (haven't actually wheeled one, but watched a couple guys wheel theirs, and they made stuff look easy)

[jaggedsteel]

Hey thanks for gettin' my hopes back up on this thing! I can definately chop it behind the shackles and make a custom bumper. That much I CAN do :D
I was planning on SOA in the rear and 5" or so in the front to match. Don't have the cash on hand for a regear right now... do you think I'll run into problems with just 31's? I know the longer the truck the higher it should sit to avoid getting high-centered. I am in fact used to wheeling and XJ but the DD is getting a little too hurt on the trail to keep wheeling it. I could get another one but I already got this MJ....

Thanks

Mike

[woody]

I ran my 5 speed MJ for 5 months with 33" & 3.07:1. And my auto XJ for about a year with 33" & 3.55:1. It sort of sucked, but both were wheelable. 4.56:1 made them both very happy though.

I think 31's are a little on the small side for a 5-6" Jeep, but that's MHO.

[Phil]

I've got a longbed MJ also. I haven't wheeled it since I lifted it :anon: but when it was stock, I just didn't know any better and I thought it was fine. I did rip off one endcap from the rear bumper, and I've scraped the hitch receiver probably every time I've been out with it, but I think it works pretty well anyway. And if you've already decided to chop the rear to the shackle hangers, you're getting close to the same departure as an XJ, I think.
As far as regearing, even 35s can be run with 3.55s...but I don't think you'll find anyone who doesn't want to regear.

[BrettM]

the long bed is too long!!!

edit: this is of course my opinion, and may offend some (Phil :laugh3: )

okay it will work, but man, what a pain. I have a shortbed (113 wb) and it is just a hair too long, I think 108 would be perfect with 6-8 inches and 35s. My departure angle isn't too bad since I made a bumper with basically as much clearance as possible, and my breakover angle won't be so bad when I finish my flat-skid. Both will be significantly worse on a long-bed.

that's not to say it won't work even if it's not ideal. If I were you I would make a tube bed, move the wheelbase to 110 (still won't need an SYE at 6"), and chop off as much frame as possible. At least bob the back of the bed, but I think breakover and turning radius are just as big of problems... I hope you don't wheel tight, curvy trails...

[jaggedsteel]

Thanks for the replies guys. I don't wheel very tight trails and I don't rock crawl. Looks like bobbing it behind the shackles will only gain a little and the thing will still have a crazy wheelbase. I could chop some of the bed in front of the rear axle but I'm not sure if I'll be able to weld everything back in straight. I can't be off since I gotta drive over an hour to the nearest trail, so if the truck wants to do circles on the highway because the rear axle is 1/2" off on one side.... you get the idea. I guess I gotta do a little more thinkin' before I figure out what to do.

[Phil]

What type of terrain do you wheel in? For some stuff, I think the wheelbase and overhang wouldn't be a problem, especially on 6" of lift. I think you should give it a try and see what you think, or maybe make the MJ your DD and wheel the XJ. Bret, maybe when your truck is back out here, you'll have to show me how it's really done. :D

[REDXJ4FUN]

I wheel my LB MJ in clayton OK when I first got it. The only thing i did was a 1in spacer to make it sit level and disconected the sway bar. as for the leanght it wasn't bad I was taking turns easier easier than some YJs. the overhang was kinda sucky every one could hear me come thought he woods since i was slaming down on every rock ledge i went doem but it just went every where i tried and on a 1 to 5 rateing i was running 3+ a big help was the 31in scorpion ATs that were siped running at 12psi. I had may short wheel base guys asking what i had done and it was basicaly stock with even a LS. When i started wheeling my XJ with a 3in lift at 31 BFG MTs i was kinda frustrated that it didn't work as well as the mj but i learned how to work around it. I still have it but its in bad shape and waiting for my shop to get done so i can beezil it kinda lol

[onetallmj]

I recently bought a longbed MJ and have been wheelin a little to try it out.
It has about 5" or so of lift, 33" tires and a very low profile rear bumper( i.e thin). The previous owner claimed to have made it through the rubicon and had several pics showing it going over large rocks. I haven't been through anything that hard yet but with the 33" tires it all seems easy so far :D

[BrettM]

Bret, maybe when your truck is back out here, you'll have to show me how it's really done. :D

WILL DO! :D :laugh3:

you try and follow me, all I have to do is find a high brakeover spot and your shtuck :laugh3:

By May, mine will be lifted 7 inches (78 inches wide), locked front and rear, pretty near unbreakable, 35mtrs, flat skid, rockers, etc, hydro-assist, and a complete disregard for sheetmetal... bring it on :laugh3:

We'll definitely have to hit up the 'Con and 4dyce a couple times together, and I've got a ReadyWelder, OBA, and lots of tools so we can take care of you after you try and follow me :cool:

[Phil]

WILL DO! :D :laugh3:

you try and follow me, all I have to do is find a high brakeover spot and your shtuck :laugh3:

By May, mine will be lifted 7 inches (78 inches wide), locked front and rear, pretty near unbreakable, 35mtrs, flat skid, rockers, etc, hydro-assist, and a complete disregard for sheetmetal... bring it on :laugh3:

We'll definitely have to hit up the 'Con and 4dyce a couple times together, and I've got a ReadyWelder, OBA, and lots of tools so we can take care of you after you try and follow me :cool:

Yeah, well...well...I can carry more stuff in the back of mine! So there! :D

[jaggedsteel]

Well I just talked to a friend who said I should cut it and make it a short bed. He said the bed unbolts from the frame... is this true?

He also said that some of you guys on this very forum have used angle iron and c-channel to reinforce the uni-frame on your XJ's, and that would be the way to go to put the frame back together and make sure it holds. I gotta admit I'm feeling like I can do it now... I mean if the bed does unbolt and all I gotta do is chop a section of the frame out of the middle and the back, and put it together with angle iron reinforcments all the way down the frame rails. If any of you have tips of how to make sure the rear axle is straight please let me know.

If I chop it that brings up another issue... would it be worth messing with the long bed box to try to reuse it or would it be easier to build a new bed? I'm thinking a new one would probably be easier and more practical for trail use. I know some of you are gonna say make it a flatbed but I need to carry stuff in the back so its gotta have at least removable sides and tailgate.

Anyway, the questions I have are:

1. does the bed unbolt like my friend says?
2. after cutting the frame would 1/4" thick angle iron running down the sides be a strong enough support to put the two frame halves together?
3. Cut the old bed or make a new one?


Thanks guys, I'm starting to feel better about this :D

Mike

[REDXJ4FUN]

YES the bed does unbolt. If oyur bed is in good shape it would be ashame to cut it up may people are looking for those beds and there hard to find. you can cut the frams and such but you'll need more tha 1/4 angle running along the fram to make sure it doen right if this is somwthing your going to be beating on off road. I'm cutting my frame a bout a foot past the cab and building a whole now fram and bed back there. if you build the bed you can incorperate so manythiongs like tool boxes and such so its a blank sheet of paper.I have my bed already drawn out and since I work with sheet metal for a living its easy for me. Depending on how big a tire your running it can realy help in fitting bigger tires (I know the MJs have bigger rear wheel wells to begin with)

[jaggedsteel]

Alright, so you're saying 1/4" thick angle iron isn't gonna hold it? Would c-channel or 2 pieces of angle completely boxing the frame (at least 20" each way at the split) work? What would you recommend?

Thanks

Mike

[Pete M]

Lift it, wheel it, see how you like it, and *then* figure out what drastic, life threatening mods you may later deem necessary. The lift will happen the same way, long wheelbase or short wheelbase, so you may as well do it first and enjoy your truck before risky surgery. I'd highly recommend replacing the rear bumper with a stronger, higher-up version. I'm using 3"x5" 3/16"-wall tube on custom 1/4" thick brackets, but other owners at the MJ Yahoo group have used stuff like 2" round 1/4" wall tubing on the original brackets. The key is to make it indestructible. Who cares if it drags once in a while. You'll learn the trucks limitations and then adjust what line you take on obstacles. No problemo! :D
I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I'd hate to see a Comanche sliced and diced before you even get out to wheel it. :(
Jeep on!
--Pete

86,88,89 MJs... My own little pow-wow! :D

MJ Yahoo group: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/jeepcomanche/

[jaggedsteel]

You make a valid point, Pete. It does seem silly to start chopping before I take it out. I was just worried that it might not make it on the trail being so long with such wide turns. I'd hate to leave it stuck because I don't really wheel with friends and if I can't get it out myself getting help might be tough. Since I wanna chop it I guess it won't matter if I bang it up some.

Thanks

Mike

[SilverMJ]

As the handle indicates, I drive a Silver MJ. It's an LB, and while I don't live where there are rocky trails, just this past weekend I whipped my MJ around a fallen tree without slowing down or sliding and didn't even put paint to tree limb. :thumbup:

If you don't feel comfortable in or want a long bed Comanche, please sell that one to someone that will apreciate it and get an SWB or an XJ.

Comanches, in any condition, are getting harder and harder to find. I'd hate to see another one chopped up when there are other options available It breaks my heart when I see someone has hacked one up to make a "cute little trailer to match their XJ." :bawl:

Oh, BTW, hello everyone! I'm new here! :wave1:

[BrettM]

As the handle indicates, I drive a Silver MJ. It's an LB, and while I don't live where there are rocky trails, just this past weekend I whipped my MJ around a fallen tree without slowing down or sliding and didn't even put paint to tree limb. :thumbup:

If you don't feel comfortable in or want a long bed Comanche, please sell that one to someone that will apreciate it and get an SWB or an XJ.

Comanches, in any condition, are getting harder and harder to find. I'd hate to see another one chopped up when there are other options available It breaks my heart when I see someone has hacked one up to make a "cute little trailer to match their XJ." :bawl:

Oh, BTW, hello everyone! I'm new here! :wave1:


You'll get along real nice with Eagle

As for me, wow, I'm sure I'd make you cry :D

MJ shortbed, hacked fenders and bed, bashed the passenger side rocker, front fender and cab, flat black rattlecan paintjob, rocker sliders welded to frame, front suspension chopped off and leafsprings welded up... muuhhahaaha, it's mine and I'll do what I want with it! :D ;) I can garauntee that my MJ is having more fun than yours :p

[Eagle]

I think I'm joining this discussion a tad late, but ... better late than never, I guess.

Yes, the bed unbolts. The MJ is a hybrid chassis -- the front half is the same unibody as the XJ (with some additional bracing), and at the back of the cab it mates to a fairly conventional frame. I've seen photos of what WAS a longbed MJ that has been very nicely chopped both before and after the rear wheels, so it is now shorter than a shortbed MJ.

However ... for most purposes I think the XJ is a more versatile wheelbase and configuration for wheeling. Also, the collector/restorer in me says that there are probably 10 to 20 times more XJs around than there are MJs, so I just hate to see any MJ that's basically intact get chopped up and beat to death as a trail rig.

Back to your original question ... I vote to retire the MJ and build a beater XJ for your trail rig.

[BrettM]

However ... for most purposes I think the XJ is a more versatile wheelbase and configuration for wheeling. Also, the collector/restorer in me says that there are probably 10 to 20 times more XJs around than there are MJs, so I just hate to see any MJ that's basically intact get chopped up and beat to death as a trail rig.



I don't know about the XJ being more versitile and whatnot for wheelin, I had an XJ with a 4" lift and as soon as I saw this MJ, I bought it and sold the XJ. It's lighter, stiffer chassis, simple springover for 6 inch lift, longer rear leaves, no SYE at 8" (longer driveshaft), and I love having a pickup bed. The only thing it lacks is room for more people, but I will definitely be bolting a seat/seatbelts in the back next summer.

As for preserving the MJs, I don't feel so bad when I see dozens of them, many in better shape than mine was, at Pick N Pull getting stripped then off to the crusher. I would love to find a 92 shortbed eliminator to drag over every rock in California.

[Eagle]

If the wheelers would buy the ones out of the junkyards, even I would rather see them getting wheeled rather than crushed. But I don't like to see good ones bought off the street and beaten to death when there are so many beater XJs available for cheap.

No vehicle is "best" or even "better" for every type of terrain, but having wheeled both a stock XJ and a lifted shortbed MJ I firmly believe that, for the type of terrain I'm likely to see, the XJ is the better platform.

[REDXJ4FUN]

"I would love to find a 92 shortbed eliminator to drag over every rock in California." :bawl: :cry: :puke:
The only reason my MJ is getting turned in to a rock buggy is that it is rusted and worn beyond reasonable condition and the fact its the metric ton witch has the higher GVW to help with some bs on lift laws. other than tha i couldn't imagine beating an mj thats clean, I think eagle and some of us need to start a save the mj club lol.

[SilverMJ]

You'll get along real nice with Eagle

As for me, wow, I'm sure I'd make you cry :D

MJ shortbed, hacked fenders and bed, bashed the passenger side rocker, front fender and cab, flat black rattlecan paintjob, rocker sliders welded to frame, front suspension chopped off and leafsprings welded up... muuhhahaaha, it's mine and I'll do what I want with it! :D ;) I can garauntee that my MJ is having more fun than yours :p
Well, in your case, you're enhancing what you've got in a way that works for you. I think no matter what you had, you'd have to modify it into what you're looking for.

From what Jaggedsteel said, I think he's trying to take what he's got and make it into something that already exists. IMHO, there's no reason for that.

Even my MJ when I re-inherited it. had tube bumpers welded on front and rear. The existing bumper mounts are GONE. And I think that'd be something that I would do if I were to get another one today. I'm not saying I want all the MJ's in existence to be vacuum packed and put in a museum. :lecture:

Enjoy what ya got, but don't just hack it up because it's not what you want. Especially if there's something that DOES match what you want.

BTW MadMaXJ, I'd love to see some pics of this beast of yours. :greensmok

[BrettM]

BTW MadMaXJ, I'd love to see some pics of this beast of yours. :greensmok

when it's "done" I will post a ton of pictures, but until then (april or may) I'll just give a teaser:
http://images.cardomain.com/member_images/7/web/511000-511999/511942_1_full.jpg

Already have Waggy D44 front, Toyota 8" rear, SOA front and rear, about 8" lift without a single part from a lift manufacturer, on board air, on board welder

still to come, 35" MTRs are waiting to be mounted, hydro assist, rear traction bar, flat skid, locked front and rear

[Phil]

Hey Brett, what leaves are you running in back? I need to get my rear up a little bit more (just to level it out, I swear! :D).

[BrettM]

phil, I really don't know anymore, I'm still running the MJ main leaf, but I've mix and matched with some Waggy leaves also. it's basically a guess and check thing. I'm assuming you want more height, but don't want a stiffer pack. in that case you need to not just add leaves, but replace with ones with more arch. go hit up Pick n Pull and grab a couple leaves from a Dakota or S-10, both should be SUA with lots of arch. pull your packs apart and put them back together with whatever leaves have the most arch.

[SilverMJ]

[QUOTE=mad maXJ]when it's "done" I will post a ton of pictures, but until then (april or may) I'll just give a teaser:

I'm loving that bumper/bullbar combo. Is that a catalog item somewhere, or a custom fabrication?

Yeah, I know I said I'd put tube bumpers on a new MJ, but I meant that I'd just want to replace that beer can sheet metal they put up there from the factory.
I'm not sure what I can do for a bumper anyway. The cutting and welding for these tubes my father put on there may have ended any hope of putting a "normal" bumper on there...

[BrettM]

I made the bumper, it was actually very easy, except I don't have a bender, so the one bend was done by a friend.

the main part is actually just 4x4x1/4 angle with just 2 chops, angle them overlapping, weld it up. then bend up a tube, weld it on. throw some more tube on. chop the angles with a cutting wheel. BOOM, you're done. It probably took me a total of 1 hour to make. it's also pretty dang strong, i've smacked it around pretty good with no damage except paint.

[BrettM]

oh yeah, there's just a couple more at members.cardomain.com/brettm

[wil4thril]

All this "talk" is making me miss my 86 LWB MJ. I just have to find a way to make sure mom does not sell it while I am gone!!!!!

[ren]

You mean that Jeep ACTUALLY made the MJ as a long bed? WHOA! All that I have seen around here are nothing but SHORT beds. I may have to look a little harder, and see if I can find one of those to add to the collection out back. Anybody know if they were offered with the 2.8 V/6? I still have room for that example.

[xjaddiction]

I have the long bed and I really like it. It takes some getting used to over the XJ.

Mine is bobbed about a foot, the lower rockers are cut off. I built it low, and made it wide with some 2" BS wheels.

Climbing, and hill descent is a breeze. Ledges that hung up the XJ, the MJ walks right over. I've high centered once on a rediculously steep short hill. An XJ got hung up on the same one too.

My wheel base is about 117"es (my XJ was about 102"es). Alot of buggies are running long wheel bases as well. I'm on 38" tires.

The long wheel base also alowed me to put a rear full spool in the 44 and drive it on the road. You don't notice it, unless your making a really tight turn, and it's not bad. Better with the spool than any auto locker I've had in the rear on the road. There is no shift when comming to a stop with the spool, like the auto lockers.



http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/MJADDICTION/DSC_0068.jpg


http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/MJADDICTION/mjtan/summertown/100_2213.jpg

one more shot right after the initial build up. I recently tucked up the t-case skid. Ground clearance at the T-case cross-member is 22.5"es

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a147/MJADDICTION/209640046205_0_ALB.jpg


A friend of mine just redid his bob with a MJ tail gate and original lights. I might be bobbing off another 4"es and doing the same thing when i find a good deal on a bed.

I like the bed much better than flat bedding them.

[cj7xjmj]

I wheeled my LWB MJ for 2 yrs as a full length rig, then I decided it was time to loose the bed. We shortened the frame about 10", and I am sitting at 112" before I was at 122" (long arms extended out). Since shortening the rig, wheeling it has become a totally different experience. I no longer klank and bang across everything. I think any one who cares about how rare, or unique a MJ is doesnt need to wheel it, cause body damage will happen.

http://community.webshots.com/user/cj7xjmj

http://independent4x.com/generic67.html

http://besrk.zippyvideos.com/gallery.z


I have yet to get video posted of Pong from the last trip, but you can see from the pics and video what it was like

[87manche]

I'll let you know what it's like to wheel a stock height LWB next week. Body damage is expected, rock rails and skid plates mandatory.