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Bilstein 5100 vs. 5150

BrettM

BrettM

NAXJA Forum User
Location
michifornia
I am looking to upgrade shocks, and the Bilstein 5100 and 5150 shocks are leading the pack in my mind.

obviously the main difference is that the 5150 has a resevoir, so how beneficial is the resevoir? What will it take to go beyond the abilities of the 5100?

the extended and compressed lengths are the same, so no issue there.

Valving: the 5100 comes only in 255/70, the 5150 comes with 255/70 or 170/60. Is the 170/60 the appropriate valving for XJs (in general)? If not than the only real difference is the resevoir and bling factor. for $25-30 more per shock......
 
I should mention that this is for a Daily Driver, but I am willing to sacrifice street ride quality for off-road ability. It will be for mostly Northern California and Northern Nevada trails; Rubicon, Fordyce, and messing around in the Blackrock Desert of Nevada. The desert part is where the resevoir would come in, but I'm not doing hour long races or anything, so I'm really curious what it takes to overwhelm the 5100.
 
The 170/60's are REALLY soft, there is no way I would recommend them for rock work. Simply not enough rebound damping.

The 255/70's are marginally better on rebound, and bunch stiffer on compression, which will help with the fast desert stuff.

Did you see the long shock thread about 5 weeks ago? Lots of good tech in there.

CRASH
 
yeah, there was some real good stuff, but it all was going in the direction of 6100/7100s, SAWs, etc, which are simply too much cash for me. I have heard so many great things about the 5100s, my main concern is whether the resevoir is really going to be needed for me.

do you think there is another shock out there for under $100 that is better?
 
mad maXJ said:
yeah, there was some real good stuff, but it all was going in the direction of 6100/7100s, SAWs, etc, which are simply too much cash for me. I have heard so many great things about the 5100s, my main concern is whether the resevoir is really going to be needed for me.

do you think there is another shock out there for under $100 that is better?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, the main reason for a remote reservoir shock is to dissipate heat easier. I do not know what you use your XJ for, but I do not think they are really necessary. I am running 5100s and I am very satisfied with them.

Rgds
 
SV1CEC said:
As far as I know, the main reason for a remote reservoir shock is to dissipate heat easier. I do not know what you use your XJ for, but I do not think they are really necessary. I am running 5100s and I am very satisfied with them.

Rgds
Click to expand...

Acutally, that is not the main reason for a reservoir.

In a non-reservoir shock, the nitrogen gas and the shock oil are in the same chamber, and when cycled they mix, creating an emulsion. That's why you hear them reffered to as an emulsion shock.

With a remote rese, there is room to put a dividing piston in the reservoir that seals the nitrogen charge away from the shock oil, thereby keeping the shock fade-free for longer periods.

CRASH
 
CRASH said:
Acutally, that is not the main reason for a reservoir.

In a non-reservoir shock, the nitrogen gas and the shock oil are in the same chamber, and when cycled they mix, creating an emulsion. That's why you hear them reffered to as an emulsion shock.

With a remote rese, there is room to put a dividing piston in the reservoir that seals the nitrogen charge away from the shock oil, thereby keeping the shock fade-free for longer periods.

CRASH
Click to expand...

Not necessarily Andy. The SAW's that I'm running are not remote Res. & are true gas charged shocks (non-emulsion) with a dividing piston.
Paul
 
Yes, there are exceptions.

The SAW's and a few others (maybe even the 5100's?) have a dividing disc in the shock itself. It was not common until recently, because of the space the dividing disk took up in the shock body.

I guess they have figured out how to make it smaller?

CRASH
 
Does anyone know the actual valving rates that the rancho 9000's are at the different settings? I'm wanting to do something with mine, but don't want to go softer than what I have now. I set my fronts on 4 & the rears on 5.

Paul, what did you end up for valving on the SAW's or are you still playing with them?

Matt
 
FarmerMatt said:
Does anyone know the actual valving rates that the rancho 9000's are at the different settings? I'm wanting to do something with mine, but don't want to go softer than what I have now. I set my fronts on 4 & the rears on 5.

Paul, what did you end up for valving on the SAW's or are you still playing with them?

Matt
Click to expand...

I don't have a user friendly valving reference for the SAW's, just a bunch of measurements representing the diameter & thickness of each shim (there are a lot of shims). The SAW's I'm running now have the correct valving up front, but not out back, we are going back to the previous valving for the rear. As of now they are making 3 sets of remote Res' shocks with my valving. If these work out & Richard & Hinkley agree on the valving, they will go into production. They probably won't offer the non-remote Res. version that I'm currently running. The good news is that they decided to go with 10, 12, & 14" travel versions.
Paul
 
Matt, it's nearly impossible to compare valving from mfg to mfg. Bilstein uses amount of force in Newtons, but it doesn't seem anyone else does. SAW's valving is simply the numbers/combinations of discs used, which doesn't relate to anything other than other SAW valving.

Back to the original question here, I'd go for the 5150's. Probably not much difference, but the extra fluid will help in hard use situations, plus the 5150's run very high gas pressure which can help the overall effect of the shock. The resevoir moves the dividing piston (between the oil and the gas) from the shock body to the resevoir.
 
So SAW is developing shocks for chopped XJ's only? I would thinks that the valving needed for lighter weight chopped rear XJ's would be very different from a conventional XJ at least in the rear. The overall weight difference can / will effect the valving for the front right?

We've talked a lot about Bilstein, but is anybody running them? I'm trying to figure out which way to go on mine, but this shock stuff is starting to sound like voodoo magic.

Matt
 
I ve been down the same road shocks shocks shocks its crazy. I ended up getting the doesch MV1 rebiuldable and valvable aluminum shocks and LOVE them. The company was Great in helping out with my decision and once I told them the springs and lift and use of my rig (same as you)they valved them perfect for me. They said that if I didnt like the valving that they will re - valve for free for the life of the shock.I also found that they have better collapsed and compressed lengths than bilstien. I paid $ 366.00 for all four and they pay the shipping. Not to make the decision harder for ya but just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
 
I'm running the 5150s front and rear for about 6 months now and i'm very satisfied. They swallow holes on the pavement as they would not exist and minimize body roll off road. The reservoir divides the oil from the gas and provides fade free dampening.

BTW, SAW offers a coil over shock without reservoir and they refer to it as an "emulsion shock".
 
Does dosech tech have a web sight i have searche but cant find anyting? im in the same shock delema as the rest of the world i think

WIll
 
FarmerMatt said:
So SAW is developing shocks for chopped XJ's only? I would thinks that the valving needed for lighter weight chopped rear XJ's would be very different from a conventional XJ at least in the rear. The overall weight difference can / will effect the valving for the front right?

Matt
Click to expand...

I must be slower than usual today, I was about to tell you to read my above post Re: Richard & Hinkley testing :confused:
Actually, one of the reasons I thought Richard would have some good feedback is because his XJ is much heavier than mine & he likes a stiffer shock. I didn't think about the fact that his is an Ameba too.
I think the type of suspension has more to do with the shock than the weight of the vehicle, within reason of course. The fact that my front & rear shocks are valved way different has more to do with the type of springs than any weight bias.
Paul
 
COXJ said:
Does dosech tech have a web sight i have searche but cant find anyting? im in the same shock delema as the rest of the world i think

WIll
Click to expand...

It's actually "doetsch," the website is:

http://www.doetsch-shocks.com

I have no experience with these and was thinking about getting the Bilstein's. After jeepme's post I took a look at the above site and they seem kinda nice. Anyone else have experience with the doetsch?

Matt
 
jeepme said:
I ve been down the same road shocks shocks shocks its crazy. I ended up getting the doesch MV1 rebiuldable and valvable aluminum shocks and LOVE them. The company was Great in helping out with my decision and once I told them the springs and lift and use of my rig (same as you)they valved them perfect for me. They said that if I didnt like the valving that they will re - valve for free for the life of the shock.I also found that they have better collapsed and compressed lengths than bilstien. I paid $ 366.00 for all four and they pay the shipping. Not to make the decision harder for ya but just thought I would throw my 2 cents in.
Click to expand...


wow, that sounds great! thanks for the tip, I'm going to look into it.
 
no problem. I have been running them for about 3 months now and with 6" lift and short arms the ride has been so good (no body role and really smooth on the road) that it has posponed my long arm decision (probably opened up a can of worms with that statment). Going to winter fun fest this weekend so I will post a report on how they did.
 
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