Hooking up a 1330 CV to 231...u-joint problem

I'm sitting at work right now, Saturday morning, and just realized that the 1330 CV u-joint I plan on using is most likely going to be too big for the 231's yoke.

I would like to go check it out, but I'm at work, so... Can someone confirm that this is the case? Or am I just mistaken in my thought process? (Please tell me I am?)

If I'm not mistaken can someone give me an idea of what I need to do to make the 231 and 1330 match up. I just thought about a some type of flange, similar to what a YOTA uses, but I'll need to look into that.

I know bruiser made his own custom drive shafts, but I'm not looking to spend $300+ on a custom shaft or making my own, when I can get a Bronco's 1330 for $15 at the yard. If I brake the shaft, I've got easy replacements.

Is this a stock 231 slip yoke?

Why the 1330?

There are 1310 to 1330 crosses.

mark

It is the stock 231 yoke.
I choose the Bronco's 1330 shaft because they are only $15 at the local yard. The 1350 would be a better choice, but I don't think that a 1350 joint would fit in the Bronco's 1330 shaft. Unless I'm mistaken and it can. If that's the case, then 1350 joints are what I'll throw in the shaft.

These 1310 to 1330 crosses, what are they and where can I get them? Are they just a 1330 yoke made for the 231?

Dude.

1310, 1330 and 1350 ujoints are all different. So are the yokes.

You have to have a matching ujoint & yoke to connect them together.

The 1330 ujoint caps are the same diameter as the 1310 and will fit in the yoke ear but the ujoint is much wider at the cross. A 1350 is larger in cap diameter and has a wider cross as well.

You may be able to get a 1330/1310 ujoint for a mid-late '70s Ford Hi-Boy 4x4 truck, they used this hybrid ujoint factory so you can get them at parts stores. It has one side that is 1330 width & one that is 1310 width.

Take this ujoint & install the 1330 ends into your CV with a modified 1310 socket (for the ball & socket CV) and if they fit together it will work.

Then you'd have 1310 width ujoint to fit your yoke on the t-case. Or you can go back to the junkyard & find the 1330 yoke & see if it'll fit your 231, but I doubt it.

Then you've got the issue of x-member clearance & exhaust clearance with the bigger shaft/CV (on the front anyway).

Get 2 of the Hi-Boy ujoints cause you'll need one on the other end for the axle yoke.

Well after some research, which I should have done after I realized that the 1330 wasn't going to fit into the 1310 yoke of the transfer case, I'll probably have to go with the 1310-1330 U-Joint that RE has. These u-joints are only $17 and should do just fine until I get my D300 flipped, clocked, 4:1 geared, and the 1330 32 spline yoke put together. I'll only need two of these 1310-1330 u-joints, one for the front and rear. I'll be running the HP44 and 9" which come standard with 1330 yokes. Then when I'm ready with the D300 I can just swap the 1330 u-joints back in and there we go.

The cross member issues are taken care of as well.

You'd think I'd learn about posting before researching. IF this was POR my ass would be chewed within 5 min. of posting this.

Patriot said:

You'd think I'd learn about posting before researching. IF this was POR my ass would be chewed within 5 min. of posting this.

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Thank god it isn't!

hinkley

BTW 1310/1330 crosses are used on 95ish yjs for some wierd reason. Any good driveline shop would carry them.

BTW 1310/1330 crosses are used on 95ish yjs for some wierd reason. Any good driveline shop would carry them.

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I just barely came across that same information on a rear YJ CV rebuild write up on 4x4wire's website. Good to have a confirmation on that data. Thanks. Think I'll drop by six states tomorrow.

Patriot said:

It is the stock 231 yoke.

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stock 231 slip yoke? how are you using a bronco cv shaft with this? don't they have a slip too? two slips = one too many!

matthew

sarvermr said:

stock 231 slip yoke? how are you using a bronco cv shaft with this? don't they have a slip too? two slips = one too many!
matthew

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I did think about that and yes they do have a slip yoke on the pumpkin end. From what I've gone through in my head and can spatially visualize, hypothetically, I think I'll be alright as long as I stay off the trails. I'm getting the D300 ready, so I'll have to make the rig a "mall cruiser" until then. I don't think I'll need to worry about the middle portion and the CV of the drive shaft slipping off, this is as long as I keep on the road. BUT, as we all know, in the real world, applications don't always follow the hypothetical.

Thanks for the reminder. It is one of the many checks I'll make before I actually take it for a test run. This engine doesn't start unless every major issue is completed.

Patriot said:

I did think about that and yes they do have a slip yoke on the pumpkin end. From what I've gone through in my head and can spatially visualize, hypothetically, I think I'll be alright as long as I stay off the trails. I'm getting the D300 ready, so I'll have to make the rig a "mall cruiser" until then. I don't think I'll need to worry about the middle portion and the CV of the drive shaft slipping off, this is as long as I keep on the road. BUT, as we all know, in the real world, applications don't always follow the hypothetical.

Thanks for the reminder. It is one of the many checks I'll make before I actually take it for a test run. This engine doesn't start unless every major issue is completed.

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Ok, no. Two slipyokes wont work. They'll flop around & possibly eject your rear d-shaft altogether. Yes, RE sells a 1310/1330 ujoint and it's cheap because it's a stock part for a Ford Hi-Boy, like I mentioned.

Good luck!

vintagespeed said:

Ok, no. Two slipyokes wont work. They'll flop around & possibly eject your rear d-shaft altogether. Good luck!

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flop all around is definitely the key here. it will never work. not to mention that the stock bronco driveshaft won't even bolt up to your stock yoke. the stock bronco driveshaft uses a flat flange. when you take this off you loose the cv centering ball, etc.

matthew

sarvermr said:

flop all around is definitely the key here. it will never work. not to mention that the stock bronco driveshaft won't even bolt up to your stock yoke. the stock bronco driveshaft uses a flat flange. when you take this off you loose the cv centering ball, etc.

matthew

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Yeah you're right Matt, I didn't want to argue the 1330 issue but you're right. 9"ers come with a driveflange not a 1330, and I think it's only 3/4 ton (and maybe SOME 1/2 ton) D44s that come with 1330s. I've pulled quite a few 1310 yokes off 44s but only seen one on my 3/4 ton D44.

I dont think this is going to work unless you go SYE & either ALL 1310s or ALL 1330s. You've gotta choose a path here for your drivetrain.

vintagespeed said:

9"ers come with a driveflange not a 1330...

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Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that a driveflange is a flat disc with splines that attaches to the pinion or output shaft along the drivetrain. What is shown in the picture.

If that's what you mean by driveflange, my 9" doesn't have a flange. Nor does the driveshaft. It was from a stock full size bronco.

vintagespeed said:

Ok, no. Two slipyokes wont work. They'll flop around & possibly eject your rear d-shaft altogether.

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sarvermr said:

flop all around is definitely the key here. it will never work.

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It may "never work" at all. I can see the driveshaft falling out during flexing conditions, but I'm having troubles visualizing it falling out during non-flexing conditions. Apparently you guys must be engineers. :lecture: I'm a neuroscience major going to medical school in the fall, my expertise is not in the engingeering field. I'm pretty knowledgable, but I still have much to learn.

If you would please direct me towards a journal that shows the physical proof that it won't work in non-flexing conditions, it would be helpful. Otherwise, I'm going to put this theoretical questioning to the test. It'll be tested in a controlled area with no cars or people around. I'll gradually increase velocity as I go. If it works, then great. If it doesn't, then great. Either way it'll be safe and we'll have physical proof and not just a theoretical image.

Patriot said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that a driveflange is a flat disc with splines that attaches to the pinion or output shaft along the drivetrain. What is shown in the picture.

If that's what you mean by driveflange, my 9" doesn't have a flange. Nor does the driveshaft. It was from a stock full size bronco.



It may "never work" at all. I can see the driveshaft falling out during flexing conditions, but I'm having troubles visualizing it falling out during non-flexing conditions. Apparently you guys must be engineers. :lecture: I'm a neuroscience major going to medical school in the fall, my expertise is not in the engingeering field. I'm pretty knowledgable, but I still have much to learn.

If you would please direct me towards a journal that shows the physical proof that it won't work in non-flexing conditions, it would be helpful. Otherwise, I'm going to put this theoretical questioning to the test. It'll be tested in a controlled area with no cars or people around. I'll gradually increase velocity as I go. If it works, then great. If it doesn't, then great. Either way it'll be safe and we'll have physical proof and not just a theoretical image.

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i'm far from an engineer. i'm actually in med school, but i still don't think it will work. maybe pictures will help.

what does the cv end of the shaft look like? it either looks like this:



or this:



the stock 231 slip yoke looks like this:



the stock yoke requires the u-joint to be pressed in. the shaft in the first picture won't work because it needs a yoke like this:



the shaft in the second picture won't work because it requires a yoke like this:



the stock yoke doesn't fit either description.

if you try to use the stock yoke and hook it to the bronco shaft you loose the centering apparatus in the cv shaft. take the cv joint apart and you'll see why it won't work. not to mention that 2 slips is 1 too many! i hope some of this makes sense. if you don't believe me, just try it. you'll never even be able to hook it up without buying a SYE first.

matthew

This is the one I'll be using, not completely the same, but similar.


After finding out about the 1310-1330 u-joints, I decided that I would be able to take a clipable cap from another 1330 and place it on the center section of the CV and then I could press the 1310 ends of the joint into the 231 yoke. The 1310 ends should have the clips, so there's no worry about slipping. Theoretical should work. I've not seen these u-joints up close, so I'm not for certain that it is the 1330 end with a non-clippable cap or if it's the 1310. I figured it would be the 1330 since I was told that the YJ d35 uses these and that their yoke was a 1330. So, I should be able to swap in some clipable caps. The setup will be similar to the stock setup. Make sense? I should have noted that in a previous post.

For the 2 slips won't work idea, I am in complete aggreence as far as an off-roading/lot of flexing and movement of the axle condition is concerned. I disagree with the idea that it won't work with a street/non-flexing and little motion of the axle condition though. The slip yokes have room to slide up and down. In a flexing condition, this would be dangerous, as the yoke could slide out of either end. I don't see how there could be any wobbling side to side, but up and down I can. H ow dangerous it would be would depend on how much movement. Which would be dependent on the distance between the yoke insertion point and the shafts stopping point(I don't know the correct term). I'll try and sketch out on a piece of paper what I mean, then scan it and post it.

The only way to find out for sure is to test it. You know how us science people are. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

By the way, what school are you at?

It sounds like you're pretty well set on destroying this driveshaft. There's alot of people here at that ask advice, get good advice and then do it their way anyway. They're the ones you read about that break stuff & blame everyone else.

One question; Your driveshaft is rotating, at about 5,000 rpms (at a given speed depending on your gearing/tire size, trans & etc.), the slip yoke moves out away from the tcase from inertia (all the weight of that d-shaft spinning) then your OTHER slip yoke starts to move out away from the center of the shaft's rotation, what happens next?

I'm not a college student, an engineer or a rocket scientist (I'm a systems analyst for a little company called 3M maybe you've heard of us?), I'm also a wheeler and that's really all that matters here. I've been turning wrenches since my dad could convince my mom to get my diaper greasy in the garage. I've been in business restoring cars, I've built motors, painted my restorations and geared my own axles. It's called experience and I'm trying to share a little of it with you, cause you asked.

My junk has been through 7 years of constant upgrade, currently sports a full width front 3/4 ton D44 w/ARB, hi-steer x-over, rear full width FF 14 Bolt w/Detroit & 3/4 ton discs, 3 link front w/SAW coilovers, rear ORGS full leafs, 38.5" Swamper TSLs on Trailready beadlocks, JB SYE on a Dodge NP231HD, York driven OBA, 5.13 cogs.

Good luck on your project.

vintagespeed said:

It sounds like you're pretty well set on destroying this driveshaft...They're the ones you read about that break stuff & blame everyone else.

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Sure, I guess I am bent on destroying it. Sounds like fun! At least we'll have some phsyical proof, right? Next time someone asks, we'll have pictures and a story to tell.

vintagespeed said:

the slip yoke moves out away from the tcase from inertia (all the weight of that d-shaft spinning) then your OTHER slip yoke starts to move out away from the center of the shaft's rotation, what happens next?

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Help me understand the slip yoke on the diff side moving away while the transfer case end moves away. I assume by moving out, you mean that both yokes move in the same direction, towards the rear of the vehicle. I can't see them going in the opposite directions. So the transfer case end yoke moves towards the rear of the vehicle during the rotation, it would then push the drive shaft at an angle towards the diff, ultimately pushing the inner portion of the drive shaft through to the end of the slip yoke on the diff. Is this not correct?

Now the axle can only move up and down in a slightly curved fashion, it has very little if any straight linear movement forward or backwards. The leafs or control arms, depending on what is run, eliminates that straight linear movement. If the axle doesn't move linearly, then how can the yoke on the diff move outwards (assuming you mean towards the rear of the vehicle still)? It doesn't have enough force to move the diff in a linear direction. If you need a picture of what I'm saying, I can try to draw one, but I'm not good at sketching. Or are you saying that the yoke at the transfer case is going towards the rear while the diff end yoke is pushing towards the front? Wouldn't that cancel each other out?

vintagespeed said:

(I'm a systems analyst for a little company called 3M maybe you've heard of us?), I'm also a wheeler and that's really all that matters here. It's called experience and I'm trying to share a little of it with you, cause you asked.

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Great, we use a bunch of 3M products in my lab at the hospital, good stuff! My complements on keeping up the computers. Sorry, but I'm not familiar with the type of training you receive as a systems analyst. Hands down you're a better person than I am in the field of wheeling. Many of you're ideas, posts, and pictures on other threads have been very helpful in my research. BUT, that doesn't mean that you're right on this specific issue. You have more experience but you haven't shown any physical proof. Yes, I could be wrong on the specific issue of two slip yokes not working in a street run application. This thread has now turned into proving me wrong, so show me some physical proof and prove me wrong. I don't mind being proven wrong, I'll loose a little face, but I'll have physical proof to show others.

Don't worry, I've been taken to the cleaners a few times over at POR, so you guys are not going to hurt my feelings. I'm just trying to get some physical proof about this specific issue.

To add something,
I can see that there would be a problem not matter what the condition of use, if the driveshaft was fully or mostly elongated. This would make it so that the transfer case yoke would fall out during rotation. The yoke would move towards the rear, pushing the driveshaft down inside the diff end yoke. It is being pushed down inside the diff end yoke, thus allowing the transfer case yoke to move out more. It could move out so much that it fell out. That makes sense, but in my situation, the driveshaft is elongated a few cm.
If this is what you guys were meaning then I agree it isn't going to work with a two yokes and a very elongated driveshaft.

Well guys, I've spent way too much time on this thread. It's pointless to continue, I've got the information I need. Thanks for the ideas and for the good lucks, I'll see you on other threads, time allowing.

Oh I can see it now...

"Show me the Physical Proof you won't survive after I replace your brain with two halves of other peoples brains!"

:roflmao:

Sorry Patriot, I had to say it

Let us know how it works out.