"Bring back the Jeep Cherokee" Petition

[raptor0192]

If would like to sign a petition to DaimlerChrysler to bring back the Jeep Cherokee, please go to the following website:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Cherokee/petition.html


"Bring back the Jeep Cherokee" Petition (http://www.petitiononline.com/Cherokee/petition.html)

Help me get the word out. Get as many people as you can to sign the petition!

Thank you to all who sign!!

[Kejtar]

not a bad idea... but..... I think I signed one or two of those already in the past and they were slightly more involved: as in more text :) If I am on the other end of this petition and I get such petition I really don't care how many people sign it as it's the $$ and exposure that count.... you might want to talk more about it's capabilities in comparison to others currently on the market, it's potential and what should/could be change (within reason.... if you say you want it 8" lifted stock with compressor, front rear d60 and lockers they will laugh and move on...).

FYI... I see some DC prototypes every 6 months or so and there is something kind of resembling a cherokee... unfortunately they tool all the good things that made a cherokee a cherokee and removed them :(

Kejtar

[Beezil]

Yawn.

[macgyvr]

get ready for every jeep vehicle to have IFS fronts within the next few years. a petition wont stop that either, just as much as it wont bring the cherokee back in the same form it left us.

mac 'dig it' gyvr

[GSequoia]

If the petition works they'll probably just re-brand a "Heavy Duty" version of the LIberty as an XJ. :puke:

[raptor0192]

Come on guys, we've had a couple hundred people sign the petition in less than a day. Help post the petition in as many places as you can, and maybe we can get somewhere! I know it's a long shot, but it sure can't hurt anything to try. After all, other vehicles have been brought back by popular demand, so why not the XJ? Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, at least we can say we're trying.

[Beezil]

pointless.

almost as pointless as protesting the war.

the cherokee is done, get over it.

[Kejtar]

Raptor.. as I said... unfortunately this was already doen as they were stopping production and then couple months later again and then I think a year after that as well.... they were a lot more "sophisticated" petitions and they didn't help... if you want yours to be more "powerfull" as I said... rewrite it and you might get further with it....

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Geez, you people in this forum are pessimistic. None of the other forums are like this.

Don't you want to even try to get it back?
You must not really care that much about the XJ, if you won't even try to help get it back.

[Beezil]

People on the other forums have lost touch with reality.

[raptor0192]

Kejtar, each individual's comments on the petition are what make this petition powerful. DC will get to see many points of view. Nothing else is needed in the description of the petition. It says the XJ's are irreplaceable to us and we'd like it back, and that's the main point. The many other reasons for why we'd like it back are shown in each person's comments.

[Beezil]

and i'm sure once they see the petition, they rush right out and spend the hundred-million re-tooling for the production...based on the hundredTH'S % of the crowded market

Is your understanding of maufacturing and business really this weak?

[raptor0192]

Beezil, then there's A LOT of people that have lost touch with reality.
And I don't know why you say this, because it IS possible to get it back. Like I said, other vehicles have been brought back by popular demand before.
How can you call yourself a member of the NAXJA Association, if you won't even keep trying to get the XJ back??? That's pretty lame if you won't try.

Everyone else who really DOES want the XJ back, please sign it. Thanks.

[ChEwBaCcA]

This is true, Beezil is pretty LAME

chewy

[raptor0192]

No, I didn't say they'd rush right out and re-tool it after seeing this. This is just one piece of the feedback that needs to be given to DC to get them to make it again. It could only be a drop in the bucket for what's needed to bring it back. Or it could be the last thing needed to take it over the edge for them to bring it back. Or maybe they will just ignore it. But we don't know what they'll do. And that is good enough reason to try. Doesn't anyone here in this forum want the XJ back? Oh, and I'm sure they didn't scrap all of the tooling. Anyway, they were making the XJ for many years, so I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard for them to re-tool the rest.

[raptor0192]

Thanks for the support there, chewy :)

[KY Chris]

Is this Nick at Nite? When are the Leave it to Beaver reruns coming on?
;)

[Beezil]

its not possible, its a wet dream to those with a lack of business understanding and savy.

but if you insist, why don't you bring back the CJ? Why not? because the TJ is being produced?

Welp, the XJ has as much chance of being reproduced as the CJ.....The KJ is being produced.

You can be a devoted XJ enthusiast wether or not you can by a brand new one.

your analogy is facile.

[Beezil]

BTW, I ***was*** gonna take Chewy out for his Birthday tonight.....

hey Chewy, i think Yakzees isn't serving wookies tonight, sorry.

[dmillion]

No, I'm not pessimistic, Raptor, just realistic. Chrysler doesn't care how many petitions it gets, or how many people sign. These things are a waste of time and effort. If 10,000 people had gone out and bought new Cherokees back in 2001, then MAYBE that could have saved it.

In other words, money on the table is the only thing that's going to get Chrysler's attention, not signatures on a petition. Sorry, but that's the way business works.

[raptor0192]

Beezil, Mr. Yoda of Business Understanding, can't you read? Here let me make it big and bold for you: THEY HAVE BROUGHT BACK OTHER VEHICLES BY POPULAR DEMAND, SO THEY COULD DO IT FOR THE XJ AS WELL. IT WOULD BE SIMPLE FOR THEM TO RE-TOOL IT. The XJ has one of the biggest following in the world, so it's even more likely to be brought back than any other vehicle.
Oh, and I never had a CJ and don't know what they're like, so I'm not interested in making a petition for that. But if you'd like to start a petition for that, be my guest.

[dmillion]

"Like I said, other vehicles have been brought back by popular demand before."

Not true. No vehicle has ever been brought back by a petition. They have been brought back by a significant number of buyers willing to put money on the table for the chance to buy a vehicle whose tooling hasn't already been dismantled. That's very different from the situation Chrysler is in.

How many of you drive post '97 XJs? How many of you were willing to pony up for a brand new XJ back in 2000 or 2001? Chrysler doesn't give a rat's ass how many XJ devotees there are, as long as so many of them are happy driving around in 4 or 5 or 15 year old vehicles. They only care about how many BRAND SPANKING NEW vehicles they can sell each year. Why is that so hard for so many people to understand?

So forget the petition and set up an escrow account. See how many XJ enthusiasts are willing to put a $4000 deposit in the account for the chance to buy a new XJ. No offense, but my guess is that you won't be one of them, Raptor.

[Beezil]

Okay, I'll call you on that.....which vehicles? Under what circumstances?

Simple to retool huh? and line set-up? Supplier coordination? Facility concerns, cordination of production, allocation of laborers, risk-reward economy, market forecasts, strategy with competing product, advertising, distribution, etc, etc....

or should i go on?



jyfkjsadvgliesgilerglierhglieuhgiub

opps, sorry about that......hit my head ont he keyboard, dozed off there for a few seconds......

[raptor0192]

dmillion, there were over 120,000 Cherokees made in 2001, to provide a supply for the overwhelming demand for them. They were due to stop production in 2000, but continued into 2001 because the demand was so high. So there were indeed more than 10,000 sold in 2001.

[raptor0192]

dmillion, also, I said "by popular demand". I didn't specify "by a petition".

[Beezil]

list your source......

and that doesn't answer my question, that's unfounded (so far) and subjective.

be specific.

[Mike in NJ]

Dmillion wrote: "If 10,000 people had gone out and bought new Cherokees in 2001, then MAYBE that could have saved it."

Well, actually 74,490 people went out and bought an XJ in 2001 (5,660 more than bought TJ's) - no effect.

Unfortunately, the raving lunatic from Chicago is correct - this is a business and market decision that has no practical way of being reversed.

Just enjoy what you have, and get real good at keeping it going strong - it isn't like the spare parts will dry up anytime soon - considering the millions which were built.

And, if you need something fabricated - just get in touch with that raving lunatic - word has it he works with metal. (Lithium? :D )

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[raptor0192]

Beezil, it would be just like the start-up of any other brand-new type of vehicle, except they already know what to do since they were making it for almost 20 years.

[Beezil]

No, it wouldn't be "just like it".

manufacturing presupposes ameritization of start-up cost (tens/hundreds of millions) over a LONG production run.....

Are you really under the impression they would be willing to reproduce the XJ for another 20 years?

and you are forgetting the fact that other products now demand spacial priority where the old lines used to be?....

still waiting for your specific examples to my previous questions....

[mikal]

i don't think there is any chance of getting the xj back in production, but it doesn't hurt to sign the petition. so i'll sign it. i think the only way you'll get a new xj is if you import one from beijing or where ever it was they are still making them. someone posted a link here awhile ago. i wonder what import cost would be?

[Kejtar]

you're not listening... are you.... the petitions existed... they were signed... they were even signed while there was still a factory with equipment and trained workers for those assembly lines and it didn't happen then!!!

I am an avid XJ enthusiast but I am a realist... I think you are a bit out of line wondering abot us that we do not sign the petition...

Anyways if you want to get XJ's back, get some program going where people put deposits on XJ's that might get produced again... if you wave money in front of DC's face..they might get interested....

And if you really really want a new one.... order one from Beijing :) :) They put couple nifty improvements on theirs!

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Mikal, I think it's a long shot too.

And yeah, it's the Beijing Jeep Corporation. Which, by the way, is still partly owned by Daimler Chrysler. So DC is still at least partly involved in the making of XJs.

[raptor0192]

Kejtar, YES, I am listening. Isn't anyone else? Didn't you see what I said earlier?

"This is just one piece of the feedback that needs to be given to DC to get them to make it again. It could only be a drop in the bucket for what's needed to bring it back. Or it could be the last thing needed to take it over the edge for them to bring it back. Or maybe they will just ignore it. But we don't know what they'll do. And that is good enough reason to try."

Oh yeah, and like Mikal asked, how much is it to import one from China???

[Glenn B]

Raptor, when did you realise you wanted to bring the XJ back?

You stroll in here with old news, then get pissed at us when we don't just jump on your bandwagon.

You see, many of us in this organization where pretty active back when there *may* have been a chance of our input meaning something. We signed many petitions, with thousands of signatures. We wrote letters, we made phone calls, we wrote e-mails. This was all when the production line was still in place.

Now you come along like it is some sort of revalation... and that this will make a difference?

The XJ is simply not in their business model. DC is evolving to cheaper to produce platforms. It is not just a matter of having the tooling. They have to buy axles and thousands of other parts from vendors. They where putting big pressure on those vendors to drop the prices of those parts... they played that angle very hard... and caused problems. DC wanted it cheaper, but it was not going to happen easily then. It certainly is not going to happen now. It is not just as simple as stamping out some sheet metal and putting tires on it. It is a very involved process. Inventory, vendor contracts, supply, production facilities are just a few things... IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

So again I ask... where where you back when large numbers of people where working towards this goal when it was still remotely possible?

The only real thing that came out of the huge efforts was that the finally decided NOT to name the KJ the Cherokee... at least here. Other world markets, the KJ is called Chrokee.

I also ask you state your resources as Beezil asked. We would all like to read that stuff.

So, I wish you well in your endeavor. But don't hold it against those of us that are of the opinion that it is a waste of time.

Glenn

[Beezil]

Hey, found a great book for you to read!

check it out, should help you with your research....

http://users.rcn.com/beezil/public/martha~1.jpg

[mikal]

i'd love to get that extended wheelbase model.

if beijing jeep is affiliated with dc, there might be a chance you could get a limited shipment of them delivered. you'd probably need to have money up front from quite a few people though. that way you wouldn't have to set up a special delivery for just one.

i'd be interested in buying one, but it will be about 5 years or so before i could afford it. hopefully they'll still be in production. ahh, the joys of being a poor college student.

[Kejtar]

Amen Glenn !

Mikal.. the deal is tha the Chinese doesn't have the airbags (maybe the new ones they start producing will... I haven't kept up with it) plus there was some other equipment that would need to be changed in order to be able to register it here... You might want to ask Eagle about it as he did some research into it..

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Glenn, I am not "pissed" at all :)
Just seems unbelievable that some of you wouldn't want to even try again to bring it back :)

Where was I back then? I didn't have a Cherokee then. I just got my XJ recently, so I didn't even know then what they were like. I wasn't looking into buying a vehicle back then, so I didn't even know that the XJ was being replaced. That's where I was.

Oh, and what "resources"? On the vehicles brought back by popular demand? Well, the VW Beetle and the Pontiac GTO are a couple. But it's not just vehicles. Many things are brought back by "popular demand", hence the expression. :)

[raptor0192]

Beezil, ah, that's the kind of "great" books where your awkward thinking comes from, huh? Now that explains everything. I think I'll pass on your book. You can just keep it...perhaps you keep it under your pillow? ...weirdo

[Kejtar]

I dont thinkg that you can compare the new beetle to an old beetle... nor most of the new ones... the new thunderbird is nothing like hte old thunderbird.. the new mustang is nothing like the old mustang and so on..... the fact that the name is same means next to nothing... as I said: there is a new Jeep in the works which might bear the Cherokee name and it kind of looks like cherokee, but has no features in it that we consider big plusses of cherokees

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Yeah, I know that the new Beetle might not compare to the old Beetle, etc., but it's just the fact that it was brought back by popular demand is what I am referring to.

Do you have a link to that new Jeep you spoke of? :)
Does it really not have any good features of the Cherokee? :(

[FatXJ]

re-tooling costs? not brought back by poular demand? I agree partially but at the same time strongly disagree. DC is a huge company with profit driven principles. From what I've seen the KJ hasn't been the greatest seller. I also know that car companies will spend hundreds of millions to develop the next big thing. So the only way to do that is to inform them that they no longer manufacture anything that fits your criteria in a vehicle. This doesn't mean ditch the KJ but it could mean to expand the vehicle lineup to 4 with a newly redesigned and updated XJ. Hell the XJ outsold the wrangler for years and it's still around. Why? Well mainly because it's the focal point of the Jeep brand, so why can't we petition them to bring back, in a newer platform, the XJ?

It's a business and I run a business so I do know what I am talking about. A phone call can do amazing things, thousands of phone calls can make miracles happen.

How much could it possibly cost to put the dies back in the machines? Most of the factory workers that worked on the XJ probably still work there so there isn't much retraining to do. Is it hard to believe that DC would drop the KJ? Ford dropped the cougar, and Marauder after only a couple years. The Aztek was a flop and was completely updated after a year, and still slow selling. The camaro was canned by GM last year but they also promised to bring it back by 2005 due to popular demand. The Mustang Cobra was brought back by popular demand, the Camaro SS was brought back, the ZO6 is a demand car, the Rubicon is a demand Jeep, the SRT-4 is a demand car, the entire SUV craze is a demand niche so why can't the original SUV maker bring the XJ back in some form?

Don't complain about DC not making anything for you if you don't tell them they don't. I signed and I am complaining because next year I graduate and I will buy a new car but it won't be a Jeep unless it's used and I want a new car.

[Kejtar]

I see that jeep about every 6 months. THere is some references to it on this site: http://www.onetomany.com/jeepnews/indexflash.htm (dig through prototypes/announcements and such), but what I see is the evaluations/ratings preproduction models which not many outside people get t osee... and lets see... it's waaay longer... it's way wider, it's way lower, looks like it will have IFS up front, it's got body/flares/bumpers all integrated to the point where hacking will be a major pita, its got a third row seat, it will most likely have spare underneath and so on... oh... did I mention that it's gonna be only automatic and probably only 3.7 and 4.7 engines? They are planning to dump the 4.0 in case you didn't know... so you know what... I dont want that ugliness to bear a Cherokee name!

Kejtar

[Kejtar]

well.. then why dont' you buy a Rubicon? That for most part was the step in the right direction and if we don't support such cars by buying them... guess what.. they will stop making them...

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Thanks FatXJ :)
Finally, someone in here that believes it can be done if we keep trying.

[dmillion]

Okay, Raptor. I'm on board. I'm with you. I think we really can make a difference and I'm going to start right now.

I've decided to start collecting deposits from people who really want the XJ back and who are willing to put their money where their mouth is. Send me a check or money order for $4000 and I'll put it in a trust account. When I have collected $1 million I'll take it to DC and demand that they begin building XJs again. If they refuse, I gurarantee to refund every penny of your money.

I'll expect your check sometime in the next week or two, Raptor.

[raptor0192]

Kejtar, yeah that new Jeep sounds pretty horrible, then. :(

[raptor0192]

Haha, you're a riot there, dmillion. Besides, I never said I wanted a new one NOW. I have one now that's in perfectly fine condition. I just want them to be around whenever the time comes for me to buy a new one.

I don't have $4000 now anyway. Just got married. My money's pretty much all gone!! Now I need to save for a house! :(

[jalehman]

Don't you see Don's point........?

[GSequoia]

Sorry man, it's not gonna happen. The cars you refer to that were "brought back," like everybody said, were completely different cars, the only similairty was the name of them.

The XJ was replaced with the XJ, which does sell (you see a lot of KJ's here in California), they are not going to "bring back" a vehicle while it's replacement is still selling.

Even if they do start producing a Cherokee (I highly doubt the body code would be XJ again), it's not going to be the same. I guarentee you it will have IFS and no 4.0 option. It's just the way they're going.

Also, by your saying that you cannot get a new XJ right now, but you want it back right now, it just going to get DC to laugh at you, as they pointed out, DC (like all companies) sees dollars, if there's ten million people who want the Cherokee back, but they can't afford a new Cherokee, well, they're not going to get it until they all can afford it.

Hate to break it to you man, but we're all stuck with our old cars, luckily they're the best car to be made in recent history!

[Beezil]

yeah, its so illogical its embarrasing. He hasn't listened to (let alone absorb) one word any of us have said, except for the ones he thinks are agreeing with him.

don't continue to make a fool of yourself.

[Glenn B]

Originally posted by raptor0192
Haha, you're a riot there, dmillion. Besides, I never said I wanted a new one NOW. I have one now that's in perfectly fine condition. I just want them to be around whenever the time comes for me to buy a new one.

I don't have $4000 now anyway. Just got married. My money's pretty much all gone!! Now I need to save for a house! :(

Hahaha, thats a good one. Hey DC, please keep making these so I can buy one when I have the money.

I had a good laugh. Thank you so much! :D

Glenn

[raptor0192]

I'm not just doing this for me, I'm doing it for all the other people who want to purchase one NOW, as well as in the future. Man, some of you are thick.

[raptor0192]

Oh, and I HAVE listened to and absorbed what you have said. But it's mostly a bunch of ridiculous nonsense. I NEVER said they just start making them again just because they get one little petition.
But ANYTHING is possible.

[mbryson]

Originally posted by raptor0192
Oh, and I HAVE listened to and absorbed what you have said. But it's mostly a bunch of ridiculous nonsense. I NEVER said they just start making them again just because they get one little petition.
But ANYTHING is possible.


Raptor: Here's a quick little story that I was quite involved in. You know of the '94-'96 Impala's? Quick description: Cop brakes, handling, etc., Corvette motor with a semi-jazzy interior and decent tires and wheels................I have NEVER bought a new car, but wanted one of those since they brought them out in '94. GM just kept making them better each year. '95 got new colors and some minor adjustments, '96 got a nice center console and some other interior mods. I was poised to buy my FIRST NEW CAR, a '97 Impala SS. GM wanted to build more Tahoes, and needed a plant to do so......lowest produced car--Impala, Caprice line = dead Impala. I don't think there's been a petition group like that since the Mustang/Probe wars of the late 80's/early 90's (that is the ONLY successful stay of execution of a vehicle that I know of). Well GM killed my first new car...........we were looking again and we ended up buying a ZJ. Nice car, very comfortable, etc. I still see Impala SS's on the road and still kind of want one (I wonder what their towing capacity is ? ) We had MANY petitions with large numbers. I got a message when the 'All new' Impala was released to take a virtual tour as part of their 'target' market. I was psyched until I participated and found out what I'd helped create. I wouldn't buy that FWD pile of sh!t to save my life. I'd like to think that my and some of my friends responses to that vehicle is what helped create the 2005 GTO, but I honestly don't know.

I see the exact same parellels with the XJ line. DC's response when I've written to them regarding a new vehicle (I wrote requesting an opinion on what I should buy after configuring a WJ how I'd use it vs. a TJ) was "have you looked at the Liberty? It's been praised in the automotive press as one of the best handling SUV's on the market." I wrote back my opinion of the KJ (great vehicle that doesn't fit my needs and I abhore the styling ques) and haven't heard back from them.

All that said, I'm sure DC knows the opinions of roughly 15-20K XJ lovers out there by now. The response was from someone on a TEAM devoted to the 'KJ controversy' or something similar. I'll see if I can find the domain, but it was kind of interesting.

Beezil is right on with the attitude of DC. They are in the business of making money by selling NEW VEHICLES. If the SUV trend starts to fall out of favor with consumers, you may see more off-road friendly SUV's. Until that point, KEEP DREAMING about resurrecting a dead body that won't meet current safety standards and emissions (that'll be the excuse you get if you get anywhere).

[Beezil]

Ridiculous?

I co-own and run a 103,000 sq foot manufacturing company.

Everything I talked about is based on real-world manufacturing business principal and first hand experience...

what's your backround?

[Kejtar]

I say we all put a petition together for Beezil to start manufacturing high quality, low cost internal and external cages for paid naxja members :)

[GSequoia]

I'll sign it!

[Beezil]

There are three main requests made of manufacturers (or suppliers) they are:

-Quality
-Low cost
-Quick Delievery.

Please Pick one.

any combination of the three are not possible.

[Kejtar]

hmmm..... atually I believe it's pick two... and I pic the first two... so when can I pick mine up Beez?

Kejtar

[dmillion]

Anything is possible? That's what Dr. Frankenstein thought, too, and you're attempting the same thing, Raptor--to bring the dead back to life. Only one little difference, Dr. Frankenstein was a fictional character while you're just living in a fictional world.

Get a life. Give it up. Join reality.

[Beezil]

yeah, you are right.

So you've seen something like that in print once....If you remember who first wrote that thing, or have a copy yourself, please post it, cause its so true.

something like:

you can have good quality which you can afford, but you can't have it soon.

You can have something affordable right away, but it won't have quality

You can have quality right away, but it won't be cheap.....

The wording I saw was much much better.....


Assuming this, maybe that's why we're waiting so long for mr. xj guy?????

:)

[GSequoia]

I'll take cheap and quality...after all it'll be awhile before I can make it to Chicago to pick it up. (Aww, c'mon Beez, I'll even bring you a 12-pack.)

[Beezil]

To: DaimlerChrysler Corporation
We, the undersigned, ask the DaimlerChrysler Corporation to bring back the highly popular Jeep Cherokee. To us, the Cherokee is irreplaceable, and we earnestly hope that DaimlerChrysler will seriously consider producing this great vehicle once again.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned



THAT's the petition????


good lord.

[Kejtar]

So Beez... you have been talking all this time about it without seeing it? LOL... now THAT's FUNNY :)

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

Beezil, you're a moron. And you definitely can't read. I already said this:

"...each individual's comments on the petition are what make this petition powerful. DC will get to see many points of view. Nothing else is needed in the description of the petition. It says the XJ's are irreplaceable to us and we'd like it back, and that's the main point. The many other reasons for why we'd like it back are shown in each person's comments."

Now if you guys would like to continue your blabbing, go ahead, it's quite amusing.

[Grant]

Hey Raptor, I think this a really kewl idea.

I think you should also post it on Pirate 4x4. Those guys really love this sort of thing and I am sure you will get a great response.

Try http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/ and go to General Discussion and post it, heck even post it on the Jeep forum, and cross post it in Chit Chat as well.

later

[Kejtar]

ummm Raptor.... why do you have to start calling people names? That usually is the admition to a loss .....

Kejtar

[Beezil]

"Hey Raptor, I think this a really kewl idea.

I think you should also post it on Pirate 4x4. Those guys really love this sort of thing and I am sure you will get a great response."

Gawd grant, you are sooo cruel!!!!

Kej, don't worry about the name-calling, I'm good with that......this is an interesting.......FUN thread, and hey, let the readers decide for themselves who's a moron.......

[Kejtar]

well.. Beez, you're right... on both accounts... it'd be interesting to see the Pirate response LOL
All I can say is....:

http://home.socal.rr.com/remi/pics/wobble.jpg

[jalehman]

Hey Raptor,
Go out and find at least three 2001 Cherokees and buy them. You should be able to find many with real low miles. Drain the gas tank on each one and store them in a climate controlled building. Maybe even put them up on blocks. This way, when the one you are driving wears out you will be able to go fire up one of the others and use it as your "brand new" jeep cherokee. You better hurry up though, because each of those 2001s are getting more miles on them as we speak. Good luck.

[raptor0192]

Wasn't "name calling". Just describing how you are acting. I'm just trying to do something decent, and I'm being treated like crap.

[Kejtar]

no... you are being explained that it was done and that if you want to achieve something this is not going ot get you anyplace. A more involved petition would show more weight and thinking through. Your responses and telling us that we are not worthy (in not so many words) because we do not want to sign a petition that looks so.... poor.....
Also yes, you are saying that the undersigners comments should carry the weight... well, they are there to add to the weight, but the originial weight and bulk of it should be laid on your petition where you should outline how it's going to benefit them $$$ wise, PR wise, image wise and so on. You should also outline why is it (in detail) that you think XJ is so superior and so on. Touching up on the history of it (first to be this... first to haev so many awards.... first to do that) also shows to the receipient of petition that you are serious...... so yeah.... your stubborness got you what you did... it was first done in a humourous way but as you started getting more and more stubborn and "rude" to us... well... you know the rest...

Kejtar

[raptor0192]

But a letter would be sent to Daimler Chrysler, along with the web address to the petition. The letter would, of course, go into more detail that DC would need to hear to give it even more weight... :)

And i wasn't rude at all, until someone (Beezil) started treating me like crap...

I thought you guys would really help out...

[Beezil]

You just don't like what i'm saying because it runs counter to your opinions.

I am merely providing realistic information to consider before you launch your overly idealisitic, inexperienced, futile crusade.

But if you don't like my tone, please feel free to post on Pirates of the Rubicon's jeep topic forum.

I'm sure you will be able to snuggle comfortably in that forum, it'll be a good educational experience for you.

[indulf]

Originally posted by raptor0192
Well, the VW Beetle and the Pontiac GTO are a couple. But it's not just vehicles. Many things are brought back by "popular demand", hence the expression. :)

i hardly think that the new GTO was "brought back"...

my 65 GTO with a 389 tri-power, muncie 4spd, with manual steering/brakes is LIGHT YEARS from the new GTO, which isnt really even a pontiac- its a Holden model from Oz.

The new beetle doesn't even share the rear engine setup of the old one..

the cars weren't brought back, the NAME was. i sure as heck dont want a liberty with 31s on it wearing CHEROKEE badging. calling one a renegade is bad enough.

if you want another XJ, save yourself some $$- go get a grocery getter and build it the way you want. if you want a stocker, restore one. and you can find tons of nice newer ones out there that dont need any work at all.

a petition is not going to do crap if you ask me.. neither is "popular opinion". if you think "popular opinion" is the same as what we express as XJ enthusaists, you're wrong. we're a minority. its plainly obvious that the college girls and high school students want cute-utes rather than something like a cherokee.

if "popular opinion" counts, i want a brand new, old tech, 71 hemi-cuda waiting for me at the chrysler dealer today!

[raptor0192]

So...Beezil, would you bet a million bucks that there's no CHANCE at ALL of them bringing it back the way it was (or at least very comparable to the way it was)?

[raptor0192]

I said I know the new GTO and Beetles aren't the same. There was such a large time gap between the old and new ones. It's just the concept that "popular demand" from consumers helped them come about.

[Beezil]

man, you are a pc. of work. Seriously, how old are you? Young I'll bet.

DC spends MILLIONS in market research to decide what "popular demand" is.....in fact, MILLIONS of dollars are spent each year by auto manufacturers JUST TO DECIDE WHAT COLORS TO PAINT THEM!

what that means is, YOU AREN'T QUALIFIED, nor are your petition "signees", to suggest what "popular demand" is. Consulting firms provide that information.

To DC, you and everyone else on that pc. of paper(s) are a JOKE.

I'm trying to help you from ebarrasing yourself.

[Ralph]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

:speepin:

RR3

[raptor0192]

Geez, I said this only is a small piece of what's needed.

Where do you think they find out what popular demand is anyway? From the consumers. Us. They research US. So any feedback we give them goes towards their research, correct? Well this is feedback. :)

Oh, and 24.

[Mike in NJ]

SEE - AND YOU ALL LAUGHED AT ME WHEN I SAID THIS NEW, "IMPROVED" FORUM STYLE WOULD TURN US INTO JU2!!!

FORUM FIXER? YOU WATCHING THIS?

(SORRY - CAPS KEY STUCK!!!)

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Beezil]

Change is good.

[JohnJohn]

BRING BACK THE Comando!

DC will never do this. Pipe dream. I am just glad they didn't screw up our Jeep with IFS. They just stopped making it. Wait till the TJ folks find out what DC has in store for them. :)

I think it will go like this:

WJ will go to IFS, then a new two door, IFS, Wrangler replacement will be released, while still making the TJ for a year or two. Then the TJ will go by by. DC has to find other uses for the new V6 motor. A TJ type IFS hybrid would fit that bill.

just my 2cts.

JohnJohn

[Beezil]

Old coke becomes New coke becomes Coca-cola classic......

nothing old is ever new.

[BIGoffroad]

Originally posted by Beezil
Old coke becomes New coke becomes Coca-cola classic......

nothing old is ever new.

Your talking about soda pop right? We need clarification from you. :smoker:

[JnJ]

All I can say is DUDE! ARE YOU FRICKEN LOONEY? Please go to pirates.com and post this request. You'll get great feedback there. One thing you got right, that beez dude is a real moron....

[Beezil]

you drive two xj's?

well hot damn! what else do you sell big man?

next time you are surfing porn, please remember to turn off the live BOR cam........that was sick.

[Beezil]

That's it JNJ......

idea for moab fest.....me an JNJ in a ring with those huge over-sized nerf cotton swabs.....we'll have a fund-raiser to sell xj tickets, and I'll swab his ass.

[JnJ]

Bring it on you tree hugging, pooping in a baggy, bald headed, spammer boy!

[GSequoia]

Will you two be wearing bikinis?

[TC]

I'm torn between "Man this kid has stamina", and "Never argue with a fool...." TC

[Kejtar]

Sequoia... why are you even giving them ideas!!!

[JohnJohn]

JNJ, Don't forget waitress stalk'in

[JnJ]

Originally posted by GSequoia
Will you two be wearing bikinis?

You must not have ever seen Beezil or I. That or your a real purve. :)

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by GSequoia
Will you two be wearing bikinis?

AAAAAUUUUUGGGGHHHHHHH!

That, sir, is a mental image that I do NOTneed!

ChiXJeff

[Beezil]

Actually, I think I'm dead sexy in a bikini.

[GSequoia]

Now you know why my friends call me their "Evil Friend!" :firedevil:

[DC Mole]

I was here before the demise of the Cherokee. I posted hints and tips, but alas, DC bought the company. They are not interested in the XJ platform.

They did listen to the input from people here. Hence the Rubicon. THAT is the DC offroad platform.

Now that the likes of raptor have found there way out of diapers and decide to put up a petition that any 10 year old could write, do you REALLY think that DC will listen to you?

The XJ is done. Solid axles are on the way out as the years go by. DC is NOT going to bring back a vehicle that is out of production.

Was it a good platform? Yes. Profitable? yes. Will it make it in todays market? no.

Live and learn. Nothing is forever. Buy it when you can, but do not expect manufacturers to continue to make a product just for a few enthusiasts. It is just not feasible.

Ahh, to be a young person in my lower 20's and so nieve.

[YELLAHEEP]

Raptor,

First off, let me say that when I first checked out NAXJA (3 years ago), I too was impressed with the purpose of the club and became very impressed with the helpful nature of the majority of the members that make up this fine organization. That's why I became a member. Please don't let the overall "tone" of this thread in response to your idea discourage you from pursuing your XJ interests here with our organization, we all welcome you with open arms.

Here's what you need to understand, your original post was written in a context that suggested that you were looking for help in supporting your idea. What in fact happened, was that the members of this organization responded to your request and in majority, clearly illustrated that your idea is with good intent, but is not a new - ground breaking idea. They explained to you that your idea had, in the past, been attempted by others and endorsed by members of NAXJA - and ultimately failed.

You're simply gonna have to open your mind and understand that the people you came to for help -- are in fact -- trying to help you. I respect your optimism and drive to make change, but what we're trying to prevent is seeing you waste your valuable time.

This organization is about the enjoyment, preservation and modification of the XJ and we'll be here for you to those regards. But please check your Webster dictionary -- preservation does not include resurection.

Please do not use our forums to toss out insults like calling us "morons" and such. Until you have socialized with some of us and met us face to face, try not to get caught up in how these posts "read" ..... but take the posts for their informational value.

Beezil is one of our founding members and usually is among the more "verbally spirited" on our forum -- but he knows what he's talking about and you need to respect that. He didn't just pop into this forum recently like you did -- spend some time here and get to know the people that frequent these forums. Check out the "Search" feature when looking for information or answers to your XJ questions, you'll see that Beezil is among the most helpful and knowledgable of our members where modifications are concerned.

Anyway, stick around and post some other questions you may have abour your XJ -- you'll see what I mean. Let this thread die so you your screen name won't be associated with someone who is sounding like a closed-minded whiner.

BTW, the '05 GTO did make it over here due to petitions and such, mostly sponsored by magazines like Hot Rod and such. Holden Corp. has the tooling for this car and it will be imported from Australia -- not made here which makes it financially feasible.But you simply must acknowledge the fact that those signatures were from people that wanted THAT particular Holden based car produced -- not because they wanted the GTO of the past to be "resurected". If that were the case, then we'd be blessed with "new" reproductions of sweet cars like the '70 LS6 Chevelle SS, the Hemi 'Cuda and the Shelby Mustang.

Enjoy!

[Beezil]

Yella.

thanks, nice note.

raptor is perfectly entitled to think I'm an moron, that's quite alright.

of course, it is interesting to note, that the folks that think this petition is worth the effort, decided to post it on the Liberty Forum as well...

Its things like that that make it unecessary for me to respond to being called a moron.

[w_howey]

Originally posted by Beezil
There are three main requests made of manufacturers (or suppliers) they are:

-Quality
-Low cost
-Quick Delievery.

Please Pick one.

any combination of the three are not possible.

Boy, I can tell Beez isn't invovlved in the construction industry!

Contractors want all three, and usually want it yesterday, when they meant to order it!

[jml1911a1]

Raptor, I'll simply echo what YELLAHEAP said, and add a bit:

While most of the folks here would love to see the XJ come back, they've gone through what you're trying to accomplish, and they're tired of it--they've resigned themselves to reality. Beezil isn't bashing you, just trying to make you realize the futility of your efforts. His posts are usually short, sarcastic, and to the point; but he's also very helpful and funny as he11.

I'm about the same age as you (I'm 27) and inclined toward your optimism and enthusiasm toward the issue. I also love the XJ platform and would love to buy another one in a couple of years that's pretty new. It won't happen.

The XJ is the kind of vehicle that is very popular used, but the new vehicle market trends are pointing other directions. Daimler made a decision based on profits, and that's what their job is--to make money.

I admire your efforts, but you simply won't get the wrinkled up old farts on this board to help you--they're all sipping Metamucil while their dentures soak... ;)

[DC Mole]

Hey, watch the old timer cracks, young'en. LOL

Eagle is the old grumpy guy of the group. :)

[w_howey]

How is someone burned at the stake, going to wash your XJ? Not to mention all the ashes on the paint!

[jml1911a1]

Originally posted by w_howey
How is someone burned at the stake, going to wash your XJ? Not to mention all the ashes on the paint!

He's burned rare--just a light toasting. :rolleyes:

[jml1911a1]

Originally posted by DC Mole
Hey, watch the old timer cracks, young'en. LOL

Eagle is the old grumpy guy of the group. :)

I specialize in old timer cracks. I work in a real estate office where there are only two of us under 50. I'm constantly reminded to drive carefully and fasten my safety belt as if I'm on my first solo in the family station wagon. I fight back...sometimes I don't help them find their keys.

[Beezil]

This was supposedly overheard at a previous Winterfest, uttered by Mike from Nj....

"can you believe the crap these kids play on the radio these days?"

That gives you an idea of how old some naxja members are, some of them are older than bronto shit.

[jml1911a1]

Beezil, what company do you co-own/run, and what do you do? I've worked in manufacturing some, and was just curious. I'm thinking of going back to school for Mech. Engr...this working with people is killing me slowly, from the inside... :mad:

[FatXJ]

Well Raptor I would like to say good bout. I signed it and I support your endeavor. The thing that some people don't get is the art of not giving up. Us younger stubborn people still don't give a rats ass about fitting in or following the norm so we will be the rebels and do what we want not what the popular people want. I also hate college because it's demoralizing and kills the innovative free thinker, making them a mindless corporate drone.

Beez, Kejtar, and others there is a major flaw in your argument and it's this: when you petitioned to have the XJ retained the KJ was probably due for production pretty quickly. This is called a business plan and most large companies won't stray from it. You see DC with it's incredibly dumb marketing group thought that the KJ was a better and nicer replacement for the XJ. Well how many people traded in their XJ for a KJ? Did the KJ sell to previous Jeep owners or was it a new Jeep owner niche vehicle? These factors can and will play a part in decision making in the future. You see if the KJ didn't meet the expectations of XJ owners like DC had planned they will need to know that long after the fact of your original petition. If i was a head a DC I would assume that the KJ was a success since the letters stopped pooring in from the XJ owners complaining. Do you see my point because i saw yours and I didn't like it so I will sit here and bitch about your idea too....... because arguing over the internet over something stupid like this is just... well.... like watching the senior olympics.

You don't become president if you stop campaigning after the primary.

In the real world this does happen and it happened right here. A couple weeks ago our Football Team was canned as part of budget cuts. Over the weekend the program was reinstated due to underlying circumstances and lots of complaints. They are going to try cutting other things to make up for it now... we'll see how that goes.

Rob
Owner- R.P. Marketing
Manager- Bicycle HQ, Inc.

[Kejtar]

Ummmmmm what about my argument about content of the petition? I have explained in couple of posts that an unprepared attempt.
I feel that if one really believes in something and really wants to achieve it, one will put a lot of effort into the actual deed instead of campaigning for it! The deed/effort (in this case petition) should be made to sell itself. Look at your post where you talk about a niche and who bought and why.. this is the stuff that should have been in the petiton in the first place. ANyways... I will requote my orignal post so that you can see what it is that I said:

____________--
not a bad idea... but..... I think I signed one or two of those already in the past and they were slightly more involved: as in more text If I am on the other end of this petition and I get such petition I really don't care how many people sign it as it's the $$ and exposure that count.... you might want to talk more about it's capabilities in comparison to others currently on the market, it's potential and what should/could be change (within reason.... if you say you want it 8" lifted stock with compressor, front rear d60 and lockers they will laugh and move on...).
_________________


Reply was:
__________

Kejtar, each individual's comments on the petition are what make this petition powerful. DC will get to see many points of view. Nothing else is needed in the description of the petition. It says the XJ's are irreplaceable to us and we'd like it back, and that's the main point. The many other reasons for why we'd like it back are shown in each person's comments.
___________

Believe me when I tell you... no executive will read the comments. THey ussually will (if) read the petitiong and look at the numbers of signatures and not care about the single comments.

Oh.. and btw... most of this thread was wasted on "I'm right and you guys are wrong and apathethic and so on" instead of taking n the suggestions and criticism for what it's worth...

Kejtar

[DC Mole]

I remember the saying... "Hire a teenager while they still know everyhing". I guess with a slight adjustment, it still fits.

They think it is about not fitting in... or rats asses, and flaws in our arguments.

What does high school or college football have to do with this anyhow? Somebody is still having their program cut right? He who whines the loudest gets the funding? Might work at school... but industry is a bit different.

[MaXJohnson]

The buck stops here, baby!

I just got off the phone with Mr. Daimler and get this; he said "I'll think about it".

Sign me up, Scotty

[MaXJohnson]

Nevermind :(

I just got off the phone with Mr. Chrysler and he said "Mr. Diamler doesn't know shit".

Oh well

[Mike in NJ]

Golly, this is fun - I should have joined JU in the last epoch!

Anyway, the chrome dome tree chewing rodent from Chi-town wrote:

"This was supposedly overheard at a previous Winterfest, uttered by Mike from NJ....

'can you believe the crap these kids play on the radio these days?' "

What the hell is a RADIO? Couldn't have been me, I was too busy taping my hood and listening to Perry Como on the gerbil-powered victrola.

(Luv ya, Beez!)

Mike in NJ :patriot:

[Ivan]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid58/pf9754998756f130e89c1c04b243931bf/fc64f1f9.jpg

[Kejtar]

lol lol... oh too funny

[FatXJ]

Ok how many of you naysayers actually know someone who works in the automotive industry? Anybody? Do you know how a vehicle is made or comes into production? I have been lucky enough in my education to learn both sides to building a vehicle. I also know many people who currently work in and who have retired from the automotive industry. If you only knew how much things can change form a little petition or last minute design changes. I have seen a vehicle take a completely different form in a matter of months. Kejtar do you remember the first XJ spy photos? It was IFS. Protoypes do not reflect a final package. I have built several snowmobiles from nothing and the plans always change at the end to accomodate the needs.

Who is to say that DC isn't being sneeky and building a FI 4.2 I6 to compete with the GM I6?

The fact that it takes normally 3-5 years to get a car into production doesn't mean we can't influence a change in a car in the works.


I find all of this very sad, because you all think your opinion is useless and not worth the web script it's written on.

For your info the plan is to gather all the data and summarize the thoughts of the petitioners into a letter and diagram to explain what we dislike about current Jeeps and why we think the Cherokee should be brought back. Charts, pictures,whatever will be compiled.

[ChiXJeff]

Actually, I've worked for a Tier 2 automotive supplier. And the automotive industry is a certified PITA to do business with. I also have a couple of good friends inside D/C where I've gotten some good stuff (that I can't talk about) re: future plans.

Write letter, petitions, call Mr. Chrysler, etc. Unless it puts bucks in D/C's coffers, it's not going to happen. Period. Just because it makes us happy makes no difference to D/C.

Face it, gang. The off-road crowd and/or the XJ enthusiast is far outnumbered by the soccer moms who want a quiet plush on-road ride.

ChiXJeff

[Glenn B]

I don't think my opinion is worthless. I don't think that is how many of us feel here. I think you find our opinions to be worthless, as they do not confirm to a pipe dream you subscribe to.

And yes, I know something about the automotive industry. However, I learned what I know outside of the classroom. Once you get out of school, and into the industry... if that is your plan, let us know how it goes. Listening to lectures and doing research and papers is completely different. Get in to the workplace where there are politics and bean counters.

I do wish you luck. You have an uphill battle, but it is not due to those of us that do not want to take part in this crusade. You are young and have energy and enthusiam. That is good.
Glenn

[Beezil]

Hey jeff, maybe some of us want to be soccer moms.....

did you ever think of that?

[ChiXJeff]

Originally posted by Beezil
Hey jeff, maybe some of us want to be soccer moms.....

did you ever think of that?

Geez.... Beezil in a skirt. Ranks right up there with a bikini in terms of mental images I don't need.

ChiXJeff

[Economos]

I must agree that I'm very very skeptical of the XJ being brought back - I think it's high-time everybody realizes this and drops the subject. You will not see a new production of the XJ.

However, I did sign the petition, so if that makes me an idiot, then who gives a shit. It took me maybe 15 seconds, so I've lost nothing in doing so.

[Kejtar]

well... noone said that signing that petition makes you an idiot..... I believe that something implying the oposition action making one an idiot was said though :( although I don't feel like digging through 9 pages of posts to find that....

On a more general note of supporting or non supporting our vehicles/styles of vehicles, how many of you on occasion spend the time to talk to the dealer? Every so often when I have to go pickup some dealer parts I always spend couple minutes talking to the sales guys... I make fun (in a very polite way) of the KJ, I mention it's deficiencies, I praise the plusses of the XJ and I mention what should have been improved in it. Also if I one of the sales guys that helped me out get some parts once, I talk to him more in depth about what's coming out as well as what was available before.... I think such actions generate more positive effect if they happen throughout the nation because that is the "carrot" for the executives. It shows them direct customer interest (person talking to a sales guy is a more likely buyer then a digitized signature). So if you want to see an XJ type vehicle come back... try to get more directly involved if you're not already...

Kejtar

[Karlm]

Damn, I can't believe this thread is this long. I swear it just took me a half hour to read it. In reference to the post above, give it a shot ttrying to talk to the flor guys, but I have to warn you, one of my best friends is a Jeep salesman and by his own admission, most of the floor guys don't know crap. They don't know what is comeing down the line until the transport shows up in front of the store. When it comes to tech stuff, they don't know anything because they don't have to. How often do you think mr or mrs soccer parent ask about transfer case gearing? People are more concerened with what the lastest pointless gee gaws are that mr or mrs soccer parent down the street don't have so they can be the first on the block to get it. I was actually on his showroom floor one time when I guy was trying to tell me how cool it was that he paid 7k over list for his new wj so he could get the first one off the truck. Crap, I just realized that I am furthering this nonsense.

later ya'll :D

[woody]

Kejtar writes "So if you want to see an XJ type vehicle come back... try to get more directly involved if you're not already..."

Ya like getting a Bejing Jeep Super Cherokee past EPA sniffing and crash-testing :) then certified for US Sales. (or grey market them in from Canada) It's very likely that BJ and DC have a no-compete agreement for the North American market though.

I like the fact that (probably non-enthusiast) folks are trading in their clean late-model XJs for KJs or WJs...It insures a supply of good unbeat ones getting back into the marketplace for us to select our next one from. Yeah, it's not the same as buying a new one, but other than my old HD and KTM bikes, I don't & won't buy new vehicles. Too much instant depreciation for my tastes...

If ya can't buy it, build it...if ya can't build it, learn how or pay someone who can.

[Kejtar]

you are very correct that most floor guys don't care... but.... every so often you will get oen that will get interested and will ask up the chain :) Also if you talk to them and ask them, they might ask between each other and say: there was this crazy dude and he wanted this and this and that on his XJ, TJ or what have you and even though they won't care, a manager might hear and start to wonder...

Also that one particular sales guy that I talk to every so often relies on me as a "reliable source" for upcoming stuff (I told him abour Rubicon, as well as Scrambler as well as the new XJ/WJ/KJ bastard child that I saw) and every time he sees me he asks if I saw any interesting new prototypes or got some news for him. They are rather underinformed as the upper management always wants them to sell what they have instead of having the customer wait for a "potential" upcoming release....

Oh... and yeah.. I agree that most of htem try to sell you on the points such as stereo, or some other useless crap instead of on the parts that really matter.

Kejtar
P.S. They ussually have a 7 day head start on the info of what's coming as they get invoiced a week before new vehicles arrive.

[Beezil]

Economos, you IDIOT!!!!!


:)

(flipoff)

[FatXJ]

Yes Kejtar the manufacturers do not like to tell dealers what they are making. I have a friend whose dad owns 5 saturn dealerships and the only way he knows what's going on is by going to the NADA meetings. You see i get the same treatment in bicycle sales because if the salesman starting talking about the newest greatest vehicle to be released then the cars on the lot don't sell because the customer will wait for it. I find it very hard as a salesman not to tell customers the new improvement that is coming out. We have instock bikes to sell!


Oh yeah as for the SUV thing, my parents bought a Trailblazer a year ago because living in the north they thought it was time to get a 4x4. Well they test drove everything and the Trailblazer was by far the best riding SUV. Well they are now paying for it because the vehicle is riddled with problems from towing capacity to overheating, to messed up gas mileage. All this for comfort? they have recorded all of it on hopes to get it covered under the lemon law soon. I have heard similar horror stories about the KJ because it was also a completely new design.

Would you support a petition for the Dakar concept to be put into production? I think i would find that to be a suitable replacement.

[Kejtar]

I would actually support Scrambler more then the Dakar, and I hope that it will be produced as planned and available for sale in 2004 :)

Kejtar

[Dirk Funk]

The Dakar is ugly. A four door Wrangler??? No thanks. As much as I value function over form, it is butt ass ugly.

[KY Chris]

Sometimes butt ass ugly is pretty. Like at 4AM after about 9 beers and 3 shots of Jaeger.

[Kejtar]

yeah... but after 9 beer and 3 shots of jaeger you better not approach your own vehicle LOL

Kejtar

[Beezil]

Cherib?

[Bloose]

[i] the new mustang is nothing like the old mustang and so on.....

Kejtar [/B]

OK I'm way way late at chiming in here. This is likely a dead subject by now. But here I go anyway. I agree with Beezil (I have not read all posts yet though). There is no chance of the XJ being produced again. DC is bent on producing IFS vehicles come hell or high water. The fact is the vast majority of car buyers could care less about off road ability, that is just a fact. I think we should be happy the XJ made it as long as it did. I think price and styling was the main reason the XJ lasted as long as it did. If you really like the XJ but want something new go buy the WJ. It may be a bit bigger but I think it is a pretty nice replacement for the XJ. With its solid front and rear axles it should be pretty damn capable off road.

OK having said all that I have to seriously disagree with one thing that KEJTAR said, it is not true that the new mustang is nothing like the old. The fact is that the new one is very very much like the old. Also, the Stang was scheduled for extinction, with the Probe being the replacement. The probe was to be the new Stang. Stang enthusiasts sent tons of hate mail to Ford leadership, so much hate mail it made them think twice. They renamed the Stang replacement to the Probe and kept producing the Stang. The present Mustang is produced on pretty much the same platform as it was when it's present platform was introduced in '84. Next years Stang will be the first new platform since '84. I think changing to IFS is pretty much the same as going from RWD to FWD. Also the new Stangs have VERY much in common with the originals. Small RWD pony car with available V8 power. May not look entirely the same but it does ALL the things the original did, only better. I believe RWD and a V8 is the glue that binds the new and old Stang and the Probe would have been the end of that glue. After that only the name would have been the same. But serious protests changed that. So protesting can work. But you must have open minded management and serious (financially viable) support. I don't think 99% of the people out there would care if the XJ had IFS or not. So eat, Jeep, and be happy for what we have.


So there are my feeble thoughts on all of this,

B-loose

[Eagle]

Originally posted by raptor0192
After all, other vehicles have been brought back by popular demand, so why not the XJ? Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, at least we can say we're trying.

How many other vehicles have really been brought back, as opposed to the name being slapped on some miserable wannabe?

The Camaro is dead. The Ford Mustang came back as a ridiculous 4-cylinder POS (although they did finally create a "real" model of it, there are a lot more "Mustangs" out there that would lose a drag race to a tricycle). The Thunderbird? Hah!

As hard as I try, I can't think of a single vehicle that has really been brought back due to customer outcry. The Mustang comes the closest, but I don't consider that an overwhelming example.

[FatXJ]

Well in the same respect the Mustang was predominantly sold with a 6 cylinder in the early days so based on numbers the new 6cylinder Mustang is the real Mustang. The 289 and 260 cube V8's were options that most didn't take until later in the 60's. Of course the 289 was then considered the real Mustang for performance guys. So since the new mustang isn't a 289 is it a real Mustang?

This is obviously a yes because there is a thing called evolution. If you don't believe that the new mustang or beetle or gto are the same as the old then you really don't drive a jeep because the new and old jeeps are nothing similar. Do you see where I am getting at?

The problem is that I don't see the liberty which has less power less space and less ability as being an evolution of the XJ. Ialso want a lightweight efficient 4door wagon type vehicle with power and 4x4. Have you priced a WJ lately? They're expensive.

[STRYKER]

Originally posted by Beezil

your analogy is facile.

You looked that up, didn't you? :D :D

My thoughts on this are close to the rest of the fellers....
I tried to petition DCX to retain solid axles under the remaining and all future jeep productions...

http://www.petitiononline.com/hds2/petition.html

DCX has finally acknowledged the existance of this petition...What this has done so far is postponed the IFS under the Wrangler replacement..

Even w/ that delay, they plan on going forward with the IFS/IRS replacement...it'll be on a delayed schedule now.
(personally, they don't have a clue how hard this is going to hit them... If they though XJ owners were upset...wait till they get a load of Wrangler/CJ folks !)

Many believe that the current Rubicon and Scrambler offerings are merely a diversion to keep the TJ folks happy and keep the R&D money flowing for a couple of years until they release the crap replacement.

On a side note from someone who tried to organize the whole body of Jeep owners to lobby DC....the young man has a point.
If ALL of us had taken the interest to do something to organize instead of complain that it would never work... DC would have had to listen...

Much like the anti-war protesters here in the US, this defeatist attitude sent another kind of message to DC and they became even more emboldened to produce IFS rigs...seeing how the previous buyers/owners had already accepted defeat. :rolleyes:

The XJ is gone from new production... but I was kinda hopin' my kids could experience a solid axled, straight six torque monster straight off the assembly line.

[Beezil]

oh shit........

he's back.

[F. F.]

OK, This dead hose seems to have been well flogged..

[XJ_ranger]

TTT :wierd: