This stuff pisses me off

[JnJ]

San Antonio is a Military town with 2 active Air Force Bases and an Army Fort. Below is from a warning that was sent out to all local military personnel. I can't believe this would happen in such a pro-military town. SOBs.

"28 Mar 2003

(U)Harassment of uniformed service members (MCCS-Z)
Two separate incidents involving harassment of uniformed service members by civilian males occurred this week in San Antonio. In the first incident, approximately 10 males surrounded two sailors wearing their Class “A” Navy Dress Blue uniforms while the two were walking along the Riverwalk after lunch on 25 March. The 10 males became increasingly verbally aggressive. Several Marines approached the group, and after some discussion, the crowd dispersed. No police report was filed. In the second incident, on 27 March, an Air Force Military Training Instructor and his wife were driving to their home off-base when two male occupants of a red BMW made threatening gestures. The BMW had the comments “UN not US” and “Blood for Oil” written on its windows. While both vehicles were stopped at a red light, the passenger of the BMW approached the AF family’s car, pounded on the window, and made threatening gestures. No additional contact was made between the vehicles or its occupants. A police report was filed with the San Antonio Police Department. No personnel were injured in either event. "

[Ralph]

Luckily no one involved in those two incidents were hurt. There are a lot more folks praising the military than berating them. I watched two soldiers get cheered as they walked out of Wally World the other day. I helped.

OTOH, I had to duck spray from a co-worker yesterday. He started ranting so loudly and forcefully about the conspiracies of our evil government, I thought I would need a rain coat. Questions I raised about 9-11, WMD, and Saddam's intentions toward the US were ignored. I finally just let him tire himself out. There is no arguing with someone who is not inclined to listen.

RR3

:patriot:

[Skorpyo]

We've got the same idiots here and frankly I hate living here sometimes.

On 27 Mar 03, this office received information indicating DoD personnel whose privately owned vehicles are identified with a Department of Defense (DoD) registration decal should make all attempts to avoid any Anti-war protest. The information disclosed that a DoD family member while driving her vehicle and stuck in traffic was identified as having a DoD sticker. At the time there was an anti-war protest under way. When her vehicle was observed by the demonstrators, a member of the group yelled out "war bitch" and her vehicle was immediately surrounded. While some of the members pounded on her vehicle with their fists, others "keyed" it and wrote the word "peace" on the paint finish.

[Eagle]

Didn't someone just a few days ago suggest that I had an over-active imagination ("watched too many Rambo movies," I believe was the way it was stated) when I mentioned something about the treatment my mates and I received when we came home from 'Nam?

Who was it who siad/wrote "The more things change, the more they remain the same"?

[JnJ]

Eagle, though these piss me off, they in no way compare to what my dad, you and a lot of other 'Nam vets went through.
I was very young then, but I believe there was a much larger anti-war group back then as compared to today. The polls seem to show the majority of Americans still support Bush.
BTW, were you drafted for 'Nam? Did you make a career of the Military or did you do your "time" and get out?

[5-90]

The worst part about the deal is that our lads in uniform can't do anything until they are personally assaulted, for fear of court-martial. Nuts.

Eagle, I'm glad I never disagreed with you - but this is the direction San Francisco is taking. I'm actually surprised that this isn't happening out here first - say, around DLI or Presidio. The fact that it's in SA is, frankly, amazing to me.

I seem to remember someone once saying, "Your right to throw a punch ends where my nose begins." Property damage and threats are no longer protests, they are crimes. There is no reason for this infantile behaviour.

5-90

[Kejtar]

One of this days... the anti war people will approach either a really pissed off (possibly by something else) seal, green beret, specialf forces or some type like that and get their ass whupped and then cry about abusive forces....

Kejtar

[CheapXJ]

Reading this made me both sick and angered.

Spitter may be targeting Luke personnel


David Madrid
The Arizona Republic
Mar. 29, 2003 12:00 AM


LUKE AIR FORCE BASE - After three spitting incidents aimed at two airmen and the spouse of an airman, Luke Air Force Base is warning its people they may become targets.

The incidents may be the work of a serial spitter because in all three instances the description is the same: a blond, overweight woman in her 40s who accosted people in the parking lots of West Valley shopping centers.

The first incident, on March 17 near 91st and Olive avenues, involved an airman's wife. She was wearing a T-shirt with an Air Force emblem on it when the woman spit on the ground and said "That's what I think of your military."

Four days later, near 83rd Avenue and McDowell Road, an airman in uniform was approached by a woman who asked if he was in the military.

"When he said yes, he turned to look at her, and she spit in his face and walked away," said Senior Master Sgt. Gene LaDoucer, a base spokesman.

The latest incident was Tuesday, at 91st Avenue and Bell Road, when a woman spit toward a female airman in uniform but missed.

The base has told its airmen to be mentally prepared for these kinds of incidents and to walk away from them. If they can, base officials would like them to get a better description of the person and possibly a license plate number so that the police can look into it.

"We want to make sure we get across to the public that this isn't something we normally encounter," LaDoucer said. "We have a great outpouring of support. That is usually what we see in public. This has taken us a bit off guard."

:mad:

[Eagle]

Originally posted by JnJ
BTW, were you drafted for 'Nam? Did you make a career of the Military or did you do your "time" and get out?

I enlisted after college, but I wasn't career. Once I realized that not enough 2nd looies were getting fragged, there was no way I was going to let those idiots have a second shot at me. Did my time and ETSed directly from 'Nam.

[ChuckD]

In my personal expeirence around Fresno, Ca. The people have been very apreciative of our men and women in service. Everywhere I have been in uniform, I get plenty of thank you's and of course all the questions. I think most people have changed, unfortunately not all.

[RichP]

If I am not mistaken 'spitting' is an arrestable offense if they spit ON you. Prison guards can and do respond violently to this. At the least you can have someone arrested for this, have them tested for AIDS and have them charged with attempted murder if they test positive. These days spitting can kill you.
Personally, I have military stickers on my XJ and was parked at a customers site in allentown when a protest march went by. I went down to stuff the meter and was sitting digging thru the change in my ashtray hole when I heard a commotion. I just got out with my 4 cell maglight and stood/sat on my fender till they all went by, nodded to the police escort and all was well and I was given a wide berth.

[Darky]

I read an e-mail recently of a woman who was eating at a restaurant like Applebee's or TGI Friday's or something along those lines and she overheard 2 women sitting at the table behind her. She was there alone as her husband is a Marine and deployed to Iraq. He told her to continue their tradition of going out on "dates" once a month to this restaurant while a babysitter takes care of the kids. So she's there and feeling lonely and depressed w/o him. These 2 women she hears are talking this and that about the military and Bush and calling the military all kinds of names, baby-killer and the like. She can see across from her a table w/a group of yound Marines out for some food. They're looking upset and somewhat sad that someone they volunteered to protect is talking like this about them. Well, this lady has enough and she gets up and walks over to the table with the 2 women at it and she lets 'em have it. She explains in a calm voice that the military is liberating a country froma tyrany, that her husband is there and is a very gentle loving man, who's an excellent father and so on and so forth. These 2 women get all sheepish and quietly finish their meal and leave. Well, soon after a big old slice of cheesecake arrives and when she says sh didn't order it, the waitress explains its from the table of young Marines. Then as she goes up to pay for her dinner after finishing that off, a WWII vet had already paid for it. Apparently many people had offered only to find out they'd been beaten to it. Then as she's leaving the group of Marines come over and thank her for standing up for them and all military members since we can't confront civilians.
The public generally supports us, but there'll always be a few that are more vocal than the supporters.

[Yucca-Man]

Talk about not being able to confront civilians...
http://www.yuccaman.com/jim/kerryescapes.jpg

I went through 5-ton school at MCAS El Toro the same week we invaded Panama and affected a regime change there. Most of the first week of school involved driving upand down I-5 through Orange County to get a 'feel' for the trucks. Bear in mind that all the trucks had a big scarlet and gold "Student Driver" sign on the back, but people kept passing us and cheering...all except one asshat who sat in the passenger seat with his camcorder rolling while flipping us off and trying to provoke a problem. We totally ignored him, which only pissed him off more so the Cpl with us told the driver to slowly let off the skinny pedal. We kept slowing down more and more while the jackhole was behind us until he finally realized that we were going to come to a stop if he didn't leave...he left rather soon after that :D

[Eagle]

Looking through the USPS web site to see what stamps are available on-line (because the last time I bought stamps at the PO the clerk shorted me), I saw that there's a Purple Heart stamp available in the 37 cent denomination. I wonder if Kerry uses those on all his personal mail. (Of course, being a senator, he probably doesn't send any "personal" mail -- it's probably all official, so he can send it free.)

[Captain Ron]

Hearing about this kind of thing makes my heart sick.

My only son, my hero, and a true inspiration volunteered for the Army Infantry right after 9-11. He had never fired a gun in his life.


http://www.liracon.com/ron/post/Chris1a.jpg

http://www.liracon.com/ron/post/Chris1b.jpg

http://www.liracon.com/ron/post/Chris1c.jpg

He just got home today for a 15 day leave, and I don't know what I would do if I were to come into any situations described above. I know I'm a bit unstable about that kind of thing right now though...

--ron

[RichP]

Look at the positive side, he's got a good defensive weapon there, one that he can use 'defensively' at over a 1000yards and I have always believed that your defensive weapons should be able to be used before the others offensive weapons get within their range....

[casm]

I remember driving past the Los Angeles National Cemetery (http://www.cem.va.gov/nchp/losangeles.htm) with my father in the car a couple of years ago. He paused in the conversation, pointed to the cemetery, and said, "that right there is the price of freedom". It's one thing to oppose the war and believe it wrong; they're as entitled to their opinions as we are. But to show such an abject lack of respect for the men and women who do and have put their lives on the line to secure the freedoms that allow them to speak their minds I personally find utterly reprehensible. My grandfather was a bombardier in B-24 Liberators during the Second World War; if he were still alive today, I doubt any of them would have the nerve to approach him with their rhetoric.

[Kejtar]

I remember driving past the Los Angeles National Cemetery (http://www.cem.va.gov/nchp/losangeles.htm) with my father in the car a couple of years ago. He paused in the conversation, pointed to the cemetery, and said, "that right there is the price of freedom". It's one thing to oppose the war and believe it wrong; they're as entitled to their opinions as we are. But to show such an abject lack of respect for the men and women who do and have put their lives on the line to secure the freedoms that allow them to speak their minds I personally find utterly reprehensible. My grandfather was a bombardier in B-24 Liberators during the Second World War; if he were still alive today, I doubt any of them would have the nerve to approach him with their rhetoric.
Very true. I have a friend who is very much anti war and approached me recently discusted by an email she received. It was one of those which talked about paying tribute to those who serve the country. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to convince her that being opposed to the war doesn't meant the she shouldn't appreciate those who serve the country.... Unfortunately it seems that those who are opposed to the war are shortsighted enough and angry enough that they want to take it out on those who are closest and most available: soldiers.
Yesterday I have been at a church service dedicated to fallen heroes of the Warsaw Uprising where during WW2 poorly armed men women and even children have driven out the German troops from the city and have held them off for 63 days against all odds with no support from the allied powers out in the west or the russians who were just across the river(a lot of political BS came out about the situation, but that's for a differnt discussion). I saw 4 of those survivors who talked with pride about serving their country and fighting for freedom. One of those people has left his home on Aug 1st 1944 at 4 pm never to see his parents again and never to know how they have died. Another one lost both of his hands. After the war they have suffered ridicule and persecution from the communist government but they said that even if they knew what fate awaited them they would have still done it again in a hearbeat.
That is why I feel that all who are willing to put their life on the line (wether one might agree with the reasons) should be honored at the very least for their willingness to sacrifice in the time of need. That is why if I saw one of the prior described incidents I don't think I'd stand idle. That is why when I see anti soldier stickers or messages painted on cars I wanna get out and walk over and "re-educate" them.

[Rocketman]

"Several Marines approached the group, and after some discussion, the crowd dispersed."I like the way Marines "discuss" things. Nice to have em' around at times!!

X-USN

[GSequoia]

Now here's something I don't get...

Where are all you people finding these "anti-soldier" people? I know and have seen plenty of anti-war people, but not any who speak out against the soldiers themselves. THe only thing I've ever seen painiting any soldiers in a negative light was about the prision issue, and that's just plain bad soldiering as it is.

Me...I don't like the war, never have, never will. But that does not mean I don't like the soldiers, they didn't make the call, they're just doing their job.

[Darky]

Now here's something I don't get...

Where are all you people finding these "anti-soldier" people? I know and have seen plenty of anti-war people, but not any who speak out against the soldiers themselves. THe only thing I've ever seen painiting any soldiers in a negative light was about the prision issue, and that's just plain bad soldiering as it is.

Me...I don't like the war, never have, never will. But that does not mean I don't like the soldiers, they didn't make the call, they're just doing their job.
Sequoia, you're on of the rare ones from what I've seen. Genereally the people I see or hear about who are agianst the war are against those of us who are fighting it and anyone with anything to do with it. They just can't get that separation between the 2 ideas.

[Kejtar]

Now here's something I don't get...

Where are all you people finding these "anti-soldier" people?
I can tell couple to stop by your work next week :D

[XTrmXJ]

This also pisses me off because I am Active duty Air Force, I was over in Turkey and Iraq when everything kicked off working as a Flight Engineer with the Black Hawk.. I saw a lot of action doing that and working with CCPJ's... Now that I hear this it just doesnt make sense... I put my life on the line to protect there freedom so these (Civilians) can bitch about thing WTF... In all of the conflicts and wars, if it hadnt been for the military and Leadership, hell this country would be over ran by some communist leadership and slauterd... Im proud to be a E-5 and to do my job to the fullest extend, Ive been shot at and dam near had the Helicopter shot down and still do it, I even watched my friends Helo get shot down and killed right before my eyes, for what to be ridiculed.. I will still keep on doing what I feel is right in my HEART...

[Will Penny]

The bounds of these peoples hypocracy never ceases to amaze me. The are so anti-war that they are willing to use violence and intimidation? That makes a lot of sense to me. These are the same a**holes that give me dirty looks for driving a big PU as they SPEED by me in their 1982 VW Vanagan with all the save the environment stickers on the back. Although most of the time it's hard to read the stickers through the black smoke pouring from the exhaust pipe. Ya, I'm sure it doesn't leak oil though, cuz the runoff from that might hurt the fuzzy little prarie dog colonies.

[Darky]

What's best about enviros? They hated the Excursion because it was too big, too dirty and such, but it was qualified as a LEV, same for the Expedition...so the huge amounts of gas they burn are at least burned cleanly...

[Hawaiian Style]

I really don't like anti-war/peace people... they're too violent. How some of these fools have the nerve to mess with OUR people who are put in harms way is beyond me.

I guess they're just a bunch of :dunce: :looser:

:us: :patriot: :us:

[bnickel]

hey guys i'm new to this forum, i have a 2wd 93 2dr xj and i hear what you guys are saying about this, i've always been one of those anti war types myself (except for this one, i'm glad we're there to finish the job this time) but i have never been anti-service personnell and never will be, my dad and my uncle were in the navy in vietnam and i have a lot of respect for all service personnell. on this topic there is a post over at 1320stangs.com where an army guy is getting screwed royally by a local shop in Phoenix and the guys that own the shop are putting this guy down for being military. all the guys over there are trying to rally support for the guy, his name is Dave and his username is viperkiller. so far the thread is about 45 pages long, just in the last 2 days. i'm sure he would appreciate all the support anyone can show by posting over there, everyone over there is telling everyone on every forum they know about and i thought i would help out a fellow gearhead and a serviceman who could use some support. i originally heard about the thread on stangnet.com where i spend most of my time because my baby is a 69 mustang GT coupe. anyway i know this is my first post over here but i've been lurking for quite a while looking for ideas for the chero. anyway here is the thread

http://forum.1320stangs.com/index.php?showtopic=5555&st=0

thanks guys, i'll post more about jeep stuff soon, thanks for reading my novel

[GSequoia]

I heard about that AMP thing (Just read his story), that's screwed up man!

Sequoia
'89 XJ
'66 Mustang (grounded until I have the time and space to work on it)

[casm]

What's best about enviros? They hated the Excursion because it was too big, too dirty and such, but it was qualified as a LEV, same for the Expedition...so the huge amounts of gas they burn are at least burned cleanly...

Personally, I dislike SUVs - not because of the specious fuel use issues these people love throwing up, but because the people driving them give those of us who actually use 4WD vehicles off-road a bad name by association. What, you mean it doesn't handle like the Accord it replaced?

I used to get comments at home from ecoweenies when driving my Citroen 2CV (http://www.autohistories.com/citroen2cv-ads/): they assumed that because it was getting 45mpg on its 602cc flat-twin, it was somehow better for the environment. Never mind that the emissions were anything but clean, and the factory they had been built in was condemned as having Western Europe's worst working conditions.

Still the best car I've ever owned, though.

[Eagle]

The thing about the mega-SUVs qualifying as LEVs demonsrates the built-in fallacy of the government's approach to emissions. Our emissions standards are based on the percentage of "bad" stuff in the exhaust, expressed either as a percentage or as a measurement of parts per million. The problem with this is that it doesn't allow for the fact that a vehicle with a 6 liter engine pumps three times as much air through it for every revolution as a vehicle with a 2 liter engine.

Of course, the 2 liter engine probably runs at higher RPM, so there is a trade-off. But the standards should really be written to measure pollutants as a function of parts-per-mile rather than parts-per-million. That's what would put all vehicles on an even playing field.