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Massive Motor power

M

Matt S.

NAXJA Forum User
Location
Fresno, CA
In the near future, I need to decide between a I6 or v8. I have three different motors I am thinking, and i have a question on one. CAN a stroked and massaged I6 be supercharged without destroying the motor or auto tranny? I was only thinking a simple 4.5 stoke. Why or why not is this a good decision?

The other motor choices so you might give imput to help choosing are....
4.7 stroker
Toyota Tundra TRD I-force V8

Matt
 
Man, a supercharged 4.5/4.6 or 4.7 would be sweet!!! Where do I sign up?

I don't know a ton about this, but here goes...

I know Hesco makes a dished piston for this application, to keep the compression ratio down. Their 'charger also has different pulley options to adjust the amount of boost, depending on if your motor is stock or modified for a supercharger. They also have a head gasket for the higher-boost the charger will put out.Being stroked and supercharged I'd guess you be somewhere between 300-350 h.p. (on pump gas) depending on boost. The stroker alone will put out approx. 260-270h.p. Their supercharger on a stock motor will produce about the same. BUT....If you set up a stroker, with pistons and head gasket for high-boost (and that is higher than it is set for a stock motor)....LOOK OUT!!

If you can do all of this for less than 8 grand, I think you're doing quite well. :)

As far as the autotrans goes, are you talking AW-4? Make sure it's the 21 spline. And I think that might have to be beefed up as well. There are aftermarket sources that can beef this tranny.

YYEEEEE-HHAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!!!!!
 
Well Honestly, 400hp is a goal I would love to reach. In whatever motor. If a stock motor would run 7-10 psi of boost, then a stroker could run 5-7psi. Getting close to 400 there. The TRD with charger and little comp mods, EASY 400 hp. If it is the 6, I want the AW4. But the v8 will be whatever auto is behind it. An atlas will be behind it in either situation. Anyone know anything abou this!?

MATT
 
UnknownScrap said:
Well Honestly, 400hp is a goal I would love to reach. In whatever motor. If a stock motor would run 7-10 psi of boost, then a stroker could run 5-7psi. Getting close to 400 there. The TRD with charger and little comp mods, EASY 400 hp. If it is the 6, I want the AW4. But the v8 will be whatever auto is behind it. An atlas will be behind it in either situation. Anyone know anything abou this!?

MATT
Click to expand...

My HP estimates might be conservative. Talk to Benny @ Hesco.

www.hescosc.com Keep us posted, this sounds fun!!

I believe if you build the stroker specifically for a blower (dished pistons, which initally lower the compression ratio, high-boost head gasket, etc.) The boost will be set HIGHER than what it would be on a stock supercharged motor.
 
Last edited:
It is my understanding that the AW4 is designed to handle more than 400 hp. But I can't promise anything....
 
I am not afraid the AW4 cant handle the power. My only concern is $$$$ :confused1 But most of the build will be on here. I just want to get all my thoughts cleared up. Look for the build to start the end of this year. Any one own a tundra??

MATT
 
XJZ said:
As far as the autotrans goes, are you talking AW-4? Make sure it's the 21 spline. And I think that might have to be beefed up as well. There are aftermarket sources that can beef this tranny.
Click to expand...


Are you talking about the output spline count on the tranny? In the non HO motors, the AW-4 used a 21 spline output shaft which is "weaker" than the newer AW-4s used behind the HO motors. Its got a 23 spline output shaft. You will want this if you want to go with an atlas because of the spline count. I have not herd of an AW-4 blowing up from too much power eather the 21 or 23 spline.

Go for it!

AARON
 
MrShoeBoy said:
Are you talking about the output spline count on the tranny? In the non HO motors, the AW-4 used a 21 spline output shaft which is "weaker" than the newer AW-4s used behind the HO motors. Its got a 23 spline output shaft. You will want this if you want to go with an atlas because of the spline count. I have not herd of an AW-4 blowing up from too much power eather the 21 or 23 spline.

Go for it!

AARON
Click to expand...

My bad!! I meant the 23 spline. Sorry.

I've heard *rumor* that the 21 spline will not hold up to higher h.p., motor swaps, etc. Don't know for sure, could be hearsay. :)
 
UnknownScrap said:
In the near future, I need to decide between a I6 or v8. I have three different motors I am thinking, and i have a question on one. CAN a stroked and massaged I6 be supercharged without destroying the motor or auto tranny? I was only thinking a simple 4.5 stoke. Why or why not is this a good decision?

The other motor choices so you might give imput to help choosing are....
4.7 stroker
Toyota Tundra TRD I-force V8

Matt
Click to expand...

You can build a 4.7 stroker to produce ~270hp/340lbft in naturally-aspirated form and even more with a supercharger. Since the stroker will have a higher CR (~9.5:1) than the 4.0 (8.8:1) that it's based on, it can't handle the same level of boost but 5.5psi should still be safe enough. That would lift outputs to about 350hp/400lbft, and those are definitely too much for the AW4 and the rest of the stock drivetrain to handle.
 
Dr.- you think that 350 hp is to much HP for the aw4? I was thinking i could get dished pistons for it to lower compression back down to the eights. This deffinatly in any matter will be a stock drivetrain. There are going to be three week points to my drivetrain. That is the tranny, and drive shafts.

MATT
 
Forget about HP. It's too much torque that can break a tranny or any other drivetrain component(s). The AW4 and the rest of the stock drivetrain can cope with 340lbft from a N/A stroker but that's about it. Don't forget that this is already ~50% more than the torque output of a stock 4.0.
If you're gonna supercharge a stroker, you need a stronger tranny and drivetrain. It's as simple as that. Too much torque will eventually find the weakest link in the chain and break it. The AW4 will definitely not cope with 400lbft and neither will the rear driveshaft and U-joints. The rear Dana 35 is also marginal at that point. The axleshafts aren't the strongest in the world and the stock ring gear is also too small for such heavy duty. You'll need to think about swapping in a Ford 8.8.
 
Like I said, the only concern I have for that amount of hp/tq is the tranny. If it can even be built to handle that, then I will be happy. I dont plan on racing, I want to just get up to my highway speed and not have a problem. I am 99% sure I will have mog/9" hybrids as axles and 40" tires with an atlas 5 in front of it. So, u-joints will be 1440 and driveshafts should be ok. I am easy with throttle anyways.

Is there any aftermarket products for the aisin?

MATT
 
UnknownScrap said:
Like I said, the only concern I have for that amount of hp/tq is the tranny. If it can even be built to handle that, then I will be happy. I dont plan on racing, I want to just get up to my highway speed and not have a problem. I am 99% sure I will have mog/9" hybrids as axles and 40" tires with an atlas 5 in front of it. So, u-joints will be 1440 and driveshafts should be ok. I am easy with throttle anyways.

Is there any aftermarket products for the aisin?

MATT
Click to expand...


www.levelten.com
 
Dr. Dyno said:
The AW4 will definitely not cope with 400lbft and neither will the rear driveshaft and U-joints. The rear Dana 35 is also marginal at that point. The axleshafts aren't the strongest in the world and the stock ring gear is also too small for such heavy duty.
Click to expand...

You OVER ESTIMATED the Dana 35! I blew up the spider gears leaving a stop sign with my 4.0L and I have not even close to the power of a stroker. I guess maybe 270lb torque MAX :eek:

AARON
 
MrShoeBoy said:
You OVER ESTIMATED the Dana 35! I blew up the spider gears leaving a stop sign with my 4.0L and I have not even close to the power of a stroker. I guess maybe 270lb torque MAX :eek:

AARON
Click to expand...

Ouch! I've got about 280lbft and my D35 has survived without a squeak (knock on wood), but I'm also thinking about building a stroker with possibly 50lbft more. If your D35 couldn't survive the torque of a 4.0, what chance does mine have to survive the torque of a stroker?
I might have to think about whether I should even bother with a stroker and just be content with what I have.
 
Dr. Dyno said:
Ouch! I've got about 280lbft and my D35 has survived without a squeak (knock on wood), but I'm also thinking about building a stroker with possibly 50lbft more. If your D35 couldn't survive the torque of a 4.0, what chance does mine have to survive the torque of a stroker?
I might have to think about whether I should even bother with a stroker and just be content with what I have.
Click to expand...


But the 32x11.50s I have on there didnt help eather. If running stock rear with stock size tires, you can probally get away with it. Just dont go and try and have a smokey burn out secession otherwise an upgrade for your rear will be in your future:D

AARON
 
UnknownScrap said:
In the near future, I need to decide between a I6 or v8. I have three different motors I am thinking, and i have a question on one. CAN a stroked and massaged I6 be supercharged without destroying the motor or auto tranny? I was only thinking a simple 4.5 stoke. Why or why not is this a good decision?

The other motor choices so you might give imput to help choosing are....
4.7 stroker
Toyota Tundra TRD I-force V8

Matt
Click to expand...

I know it's late in the game but what do you want the motor to do? Unless you have cash to burn then the 4.7 stroker is the best bang for the buck. You will be surprised by how much torque it gets and how well it off roads. Now if you're looking for pure power for street then......never mind. :dunno:
 
HossHoffer said:
I know it's late in the game but what do you want the motor to do? Unless you have cash to burn then the 4.7 stroker is the best bang for the buck. You will be surprised by how much torque it gets and how well it off roads. Now if you're looking for pure power for street then......never mind. :dunno:
Click to expand...

This will pretty mcuh be a cheROCKee that i can drive on the street to most the trails. I love the idea of knowing that I can drive my Jeep to the hardest trails and still make it home fine. I dont have cash to burn, but for me, this project is an investment for one reason or the other. I realize the stroker is better on the wadd, but I would like to do something a little different. I have ridden many times in a stroked motor. I love it. I am just trying to throw ideas out here so yall can help me straighten my thoughts out.

My pros and cons for each are so hard to debate on....
The stroker is just as reliable as a stock motor and spare parts interchange from one jeep to the next on the trail.
The Charger is same as stock, but if it breaks, that ok! disconnect and go on my way with a limp d!ck.
The Tundra motor, I am screwed royally on the trails if anything happens. But very bling bling factor :woohoo:

Maybe I should just choose one option or the other with the 4.0? Buy one, and if not enough, do the other?

MATT
 
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