Rock Rail Schematics

[LiquidOps]

Hey guys. I got a buddy who is fairly handy with metal work and welding and the such. Was wondering if any of you had the schematics and such so that I can have him build me some Rock Rails.

I've got a 92 XJ 2 Door.

Thanks a lot

[LiquidOps]

oh... and a picture to go with your schematic would be great too :)

[JJ13]

Just figure out what size steel you want them out of ( mine will be 4x2 .095 wall). Then screw the steel to the pinch seam (mine use 4 small bolts). I made a cardboard template of the holes in the pinch seam to lay out the holes on the rock rails and then tapped the holes. Then just measure from the rock rail that is now bolted to your xj to the frame rail (for lack of better term). This will give you the measurement for the length of the arms to bolt or weld to the frame rail (mine will be 1.5 wall square tubing). Then all you need is a plate on the end of the leg from the rock rail to the frame.

[xj92]

I'm in the process of planning mine out and in order to lose as little ground clearance as possible, I want to use 1"x4" .250 wall under the rockers, then round 1" .188 or .250 wall for the legs. The legs will get welded to the T&J Chassis Stiffener. I'm debating whether the 1"x4" .250 wall will be strong enough, but metal is cheap and it's not hard to cut it off and weld on 2"x4" later if I need to. Plus I'm not the type to just beat on it. I've got at least 4 dents in the rockers already, but it's from coming down on them slowly and not too hard, even though I wasn't expecting it. Anybody else use 1" under their rockers?

[JJ13]

I'm in the process of planning mine out and in order to lose as little ground clearance as possible, I want to use 1"x4" .250 wall under the rockers, then round 1" .188 or .250 wall for the legs. The legs will get welded to the T&J Chassis Stiffener. I'm debating whether the 1"x4" .250 wall will be strong enough, but metal is cheap and it's not hard to cut it off and weld on 2"x4" later if I need to. Plus I'm not the type to just beat on it. I've got at least 4 dents in the rockers already, but it's from coming down on them slowly and not too hard, even though I wasn't expecting it. Anybody else use 1" under their rockers?
The 1x4 .250 will be plenty strong. You wouldn't gain much if any strength from using 2x4 .250.

[MaXJohnson]

Just figure out what size steel you want them out of ( mine will be 4x2 .095 wall).

.095 is way thin for a rock rail. You'll have to call these step rails. Most guys think .188 is the minimum for a good rock rail. Anything less is going to get banged up and dented pretty bad.

[JJ13]

Was planning on drilling holes every 6" (crossways), and welding pipe into the holes. I have some .188 wall and .250 wall, but it was way to heavy when I cut them to length.

[chassellbandit]

http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/chassellbandit/album?.dir=/rails2&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/chassellbandit/my_photos

not really a schematic, but this is how i did mine on my 93. used 2x6 3/16 stock for the rail, and 2x4 1/8" for the arms. 1/8" plate for the frame brackets. i also drilled and tapped holes for 1/4 bolts through the pinchseam into the rail. seem to be holding up well.

[Xtreme XJ]

I'm debating whether the 1"x4" .250 wall will be strong enough, but metal is cheap and it's not hard to cut it off and weld on 2"x4" later if I need to. [/QUOTE]

Hey xj92:
Out of curiosity how cheap is metal.... my local guy wants $5. a foot for 2X4
X1/4" and I have to buy a 20' stick.
I too was curious about the 1 or 1.5 X 4 square tubing.
Thanks
Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[chassellbandit]

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288200591

not really a schematic, but this is how i did mine on my 93. used 2x6 3/16 stock for the rail, and 2x4 1/8" for the arms. 1/8" plate for the frame brackets. i also drilled and tapped holes for 1/4 bolts through the pinchseam into the rail. seem to be holding up well.

sorry, last link didn't work. this one should. as for prices, here in west michigan, i got the steel in the last pic for like 70 or 80 bucks. including the sheet sitting behind the tubes. just a thought, but u might want to try and find a recycling place, they might have stuff that you can get for a decent price.

[3KXJ]

Check out Kevinsoffroad.com. This is a great idea, exept the mounting. I just copyed these this weekend but, I added a peice of angle iron for the pinch seam to mount to.

[Tim_MN]

I used 2x2 .250 wall that I got at the steel yard in Minneapolis. They put all the scrap and mis-cuts in one area and sell everything for .25 cents/pound. I got all my material for the bumper and rock rails for about $60. I had everything powder coated for $135. Look for another posting of mine for the bumper building story and pics. I am working on a rock rail story and pics for later.

Original website pics of the rock rails I copied - http://www.pahighlander.com/rock_rails.htm

The main rail is 60". The front arm is 10.5" long, the rear arm is 11.25", the angle iron for the pinch weld is 1".


Building a Bumper - http://hometown.aol.com/xjtim/index1.html

Bumper Pic here - http://www.fototime.com/F4656DBB3BC16F3/standard.jpg


http://www.fototime.com/F4656DBB3BC16F3/standard.jpg

[Tim_MN]

Simple drawing of my rock rails.

Cut main bar, taper ends, weld shut ends.
Cut legs a bit long and tack to main, square and parallel.
Trim legs to locate main piece under rocker. Eyeball from standing up next to truck as the frame rail and rocker panel distance may vary.
Tack frame rail mounts to the legs.
Clamp 1" angle iron to pinchweld and hold rails in place, tack angle iron to legs

I bolted the 1' angle iron to the pinchweld in 4 places.



http://www.fototime.com/2551C9D39E638C7/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2551C9D39E638C7/standard.jpg

[Matt]

No schematic - but a pic: I took 2x2 0.25" wall and turned it on edge, 3 struts from the frame and all the struts have 8" long sections where the pinch seam is sandwiched between 1x .125" flat bar and bolted together with 1/4" grade 8 bolts...

The setup was built in 1998 and have not touched it since...

Matt

http://home.off-road.com/~wanderingwillys/xjpics/ride_height1.jpg

[sidriptide]

i gotta add that the rails PAHighlander has are about the beefiest ive come across, and when he wrecked head-on a few weeks ago the frame rails stayed straight!!!!! THE ROOF BUCKLED!!! some serious $hit there..
mike

[xj92]

I was just out taking measurements and trying to finalize my design, and I've got an idea to throw by you guys. First of all, I've got the T&J Chassis Stiffener that the legs are getting welded to. What if I run 3 legs (1" round .250 or .188 wall) to the rail (1"x4" .250 square). The rail will sit right on the outside of the pinch seam up flush with the bottom of the rocker panel, then drill and tap the square tube rail itself in 6 or 8 places and bolt it through the pinch seam like that? That would eliminate the angle most of you guys are using for the pinch seam and allow the rail to sit up higher and eat up less ground clearance. The pinch seam would have to be notched in 3 places for the legs, but the notches are already there, I'd just round them out since they're square right now. In my head this design sounds better than most of the ones I've seen, any points that I need to consider? The only thing I can think of so far is that stuff could get into the inside of the rails throug the bolt holes and cause small rattle noises. TIA.

[xj92]

TTT. Anybody made their rail sit high and bolted the pinch seam directly to it?

[chassellbandit]

TTT. Anybody made their rail sit high and bolted the pinch seam directly to it?

yeah. but not as the only means of support. 1/4" bolts through the seam into my 2x6 stock.

[RCP Phx]

Mine is a piece of 1"x1" bolted to the pinch seam with (7) 1/4"-20 bolts per side.The three legs(from the frame rail) run under the pinch seam rail to the 1 1/2"x 3" rail.
http://hometown.aol.com/rpayne9421/images/mvc-008f.jpg

[xjmoser]

i built my rails from a design i found at mesa4x4.com they sit flush with the rocker and against the pinch seam (no gap). very clean looking i can e-mail pic if wanted.

[chassellbandit]

i built my rails from a design i found at mesa4x4.com they sit flush with the rocker and against the pinch seam (no gap). very clean looking i can e-mail pic if wanted.

ah yes, you must've copied mr hoovers design...good guy. pretty mch the same thing i did, with some slight variations. nice set up tho, i like having a little more protection and a step....

[RCP Phx]

Three reasons for my design.First, the pinch seam is not square to the body so the rail looked horrible that way.Second,no space to allow for the "big one"(hit).Third,traps to much junk in that area!

[chassellbandit]

to each their own. there's advantages and disadvantages either way.

[xj92]

i built my rails from a design i found at mesa4x4.com they sit flush with the rocker and against the pinch seam (no gap). very clean looking i can e-mail pic if wanted.

I'd like to see a picture. You can email it to xj92@hotmail.com or just post it here. I called around for steel today and nobody carries/makes 1"x4" that I could find. Everyone makes 2x4 of course, but I couldn't come across 1x3 or 1x4 from any of the 6 shops I called. Ron, where did you get 1.5x3? What wall is it? I've been trying to stay with .250 wall for the area directly under the rocker, but would consider .188 bare minimum. TIA.

[Tim_MN]

I did not want to notch the pinch rail for extra 1" clearance and the steel yard didn't have any 1" x 4 material in the discount area (another 1") so I went with what was on hand. I find that stuff slides easily along the rail and more junk hangs up on the t-case skid and underside than the sides. I was most intersted in protecting the rocker and holding the rockers/doors away from stuff. Total project time from start to finish for building was about 8 hours. Welding shops can order any size material that is in the supplier book.


http://www.fototime.com/3887C3898A28881/standard.jpg

[LiquidOps]

i built my rails from a design i found at mesa4x4.com they sit flush with the rocker and against the pinch seam (no gap). very clean looking i can e-mail pic if wanted.

I would like a picture if you could... I like these... I'd have mine powder coated, but I like..

Steven@LiquidOps.com

[TOZOVR]

Check out Kevinsoffroad.com. This is a great idea, exept the mounting. I just copyed these this weekend but, I added a peice of angle iron for the pinch seam to mount to.

Kevins designs are sound. I don't like it when folks just assume the pinch seam is the ONLY way to do it.

Kevin's design and Andy's from CRSU are trail proven to work.

Kevin's mount at two points and Andy's mount at 3 (I run Andy's and there are 3, 2"x2" outriggers with flat plates at the ends. These are welded on.

I have beat the snot out of my rig with these things and they have perfromed flawlessly.

I have seen the pinch seam design work well too, don't get me wrong, but it irkes me when folks badmouth a design they've never seen in action.

[LiquidOps]

Kevins designs are sound. I don't like it when folks just assume the pinch seam is the ONLY way to do it.

Kevin's design and Andy's from CRSU are trail proven to work.

Kevin's mount at two points and Andy's mount at 3 (I run Andy's and there are 3, 2"x2" outriggers with flat plates at the ends. These are welded on.

I have beat the snot out of my rig with these things and they have perfromed flawlessly.

I have seen the pinch seam design work well too, don't get me wrong, but it irkes me when folks badmouth a design they've never seen in action.

Do you think I would be better off buying my Rock Rails or trying to have them made? I read through all the articles on Kevin's design and I think they are great. I like the idea of the slider as well. Of course... I'm still a n00b at all of this...

Please advise..

[3KXJ]

Toz, I never meant to say that Kevins design was lacking in any way. I had to add the angle iron for the pinch seam because I'm running 36" long arms and the mounting system from Kevins wouldn't work for me. I believe Kevins are the best lookin rockers I've seen. My buddy runs them and they take a ton of abuse. I would highly recommend his sliders to anyone.

[3KXJ]

Toz, I never meant to say that Kevins design was lacking in any way. I had to add the angle iron for the pinch seam because I'm running 36" long arms and the mounting system from Kevins wouldn't work for me. I believe Kevins are the best lookin rockers I've seen. My buddy runs them and they take a ton of abuse. I would highly recommend his sliders to anyone.

[TOZOVR]

Liquid...If you have the means, I'd make them, but many don't have the time or inclination to build. I know I didn't when we got mine from Andy.

I'd reccommend the CRSU rails to anyone with not enough time to build but still want to do some finish work...Andy's rails are beefy as hell, but you'll spend some time and effort getting them on. You'll also need some skills with the welder to affix them.

But man, I have WAILED on mine and have nothin but looove for them LOL.

Try PMing Phat XJ and asking for his plans...all CAD/CAM and sexy.


3KXJ, sorry if that came off directed at you LOL...it was more a general blurt to many of the folks out there who think there's only one way. ;)

[JKTXJ]

I was just out taking measurements and trying to finalize my design, and I've got an idea to throw by you guys. First of all, I've got the T&J Chassis Stiffener that the legs are getting welded to. What if I run 3 legs (1" round .250 or .188 wall) to the rail (1"x4" .250 square). The rail will sit right on the outside of the pinch seam up flush with the bottom of the rocker panel, then drill and tap the square tube rail itself in 6 or 8 places and bolt it through the pinch seam like that? That would eliminate the angle most of you guys are using for the pinch seam and allow the rail to sit up higher and eat up less ground clearance. The pinch seam would have to be notched in 3 places for the legs, but the notches are already there, I'd just round them out since they're square right now. In my head this design sounds better than most of the ones I've seen, any points that I need to consider? The only thing I can think of so far is that stuff could get into the inside of the rails throug the bolt holes and cause small rattle noises. TIA.

You can do that, a 1/4" thick rail will hold well when threaded. I'd use at least 5 evenly spaced bolts. These rails I built are 2x2 that sit flush to the pinch seam. I wanted stronger than just tapped holes so I ran a nutsert down the inside of the tube. They are labor intensive, but strong. (by the way, the good looking rig is my friends :tears: ).

http://www.jpfab.com/images/rails2.jpg

[Rawbrown]

I'm gonna rock the boat on this thread...
first off with Kevins Rails... I just don't like the design. if they were fastened to the pinch seam I would be happier, but I don't have to buy them...
now for my second grudge... whats with the need for 1/4" steel tubing. there is nothing like adding an extra 100# to each side of your jeep. ok maybe not that much but I don't have my chart in front of me showing weight per foot.
sure it will take whatever you throw at it, but what does that weight do to your suspension? decreases your ride height. that and the 1/4" wall 2x6 you call bumpers... have you ever taken all the crap out of the back of your jeep and notice the increase in ride height, along with better acceleration, braking, cornering?
try making things just a little bit flexible. I will give you a basic design for rock rails. youll have to figure out all the measurments cuz every vehicle setup is different.
this is what I made for my own rig, and it stands up to anything I can bounce my jeep off. plus I can use my rails as a winch anchor, and I have needed a winch in that direction.
for my design I used 1.5"x1.5" .120 wall for the main rail. instead of two cross bars I use for to attach to the frame rail. the cross bars are 1"x2" .120 wall. a piece of 1" angle fits in place for the pinch seem. which gets 10 bolts 1/4"-20 GR8. each cross bar is mounted to the frame rail via 3/8" bolts. they are drilled all the way thru. not to tight but properly torqued. this gives you the strength to pull away from the vehicle.
not only do they weight 30# per side but they are not totally ridged. they absorb some of the shock from impacts.
take it for what its worth... I made my rear bumper from (gasp) 3/16" 2x5 tube. its been bounced off rocks, rearended by a chevy (2000$ damage to him). and it doesn't weight more than me.

but thats just me...

[Garthbmn7]

for my design I used 1.5"x1.5" .120 wall for the main rail. instead of two cross bars I use for to attach to the frame rail. the cross bars are 1"x2" .120 wall. a piece of 1" angle fits in place for the pinch seem. which gets 10 bolts 1/4"-20 GR8. each cross bar is mounted to the frame rail via 3/8" bolts. they are drilled all the way thru. not to tight but properly torqued. this gives you the strength to pull away from the vehicle.
not only do they weight 30# per side but they are not totally ridged. they absorb some of the shock from impacts.
take it for what its worth... I made my rear bumper from (gasp) 3/16" 2x5 tube. its been bounced off rocks, rearended by a chevy (2000$ damage to him). and it doesn't weight more than me.

but thats just me...


Do you have any pictures. I am building this weekend and am jsut reading and looking at what others are doing for ideas.

What are the links for "kevins"?

[Garthbmn7]

Found the link for Kevins. Sorry was thinking it was a personal website.


How many of you with the 2x4 or 2x6 design can be picked up witha hi lift? I am trying to make my vehicle more of an expedition vehicle than a rockcrawler. Protection plus functionality.
Thanks all