5150 boyz......

All you Bilstein 5150 boyz out there....which valving did you use for the front shocks on your rigs?

CRASH

the hard one.

255/70 or whatever the hell it is.

Andy,
I've never run Bilsteins, but I've been running Sway-A-Ways for the past 5 months or so. In that time I have revalved them 4 times, & I'm ready to revalve them a 5th time. Knowing your propensity for going fast & also enjoying trails like the Hammers (the need for major front end rebound control), I think the 5150's will be too soft for your rig, at least the front. I think you would be happier with the 7100's, & then be ready to tune them over time to get your desired results.
I'm assuming the 5150's, like the 5100's, are not revalvable.
Paul

I've been thinking about the high bling factor shocks for a while now, the SAW's and the Fox's are really nice. I guess you are right, with my propensity for air time, I'm going ot need something that I can play with.

Plus, now I have the advantage of using your knowledge as the guinea pig! Nice.

Did you get your SAW's from PolyPerformance? Are they Remote resi's or emulsion? 2" or 2.5"?

Andy

I've got 50mm bore (2"). They are setup for a remote Res. but I am not running them. I have tuned them for slow speed rock crawling & don't feel need for remote Res. (extra weight), I might add them later. Nevertheless, they are incredible at high speed J.V. running. Knowing you, you definitely need something you can rebuild yourself. There is a HUGE difference in how they perform with different rates, you just have to decide what area you want to sacrifice for another.
I got them from SAW, they asked me to help them develop these shocks for XJ's.
Paul

The emulsion (non-remote rese) are fairly reasonably priced. A quick search says they are about 100 bones each, comaparable to the 7100 series emulsion shocks. IS there any reason you picked SAW vs. Fox vs Bilstein?

How much is a full set of different discs for tuning for the SAW's?

Have you played with nitro pressure as well as valving?

CRASH

I have the soft ones. Have not used them yet so cant vouche for their performance on or off the road.

XJguy

CRASH said:

The emulsion (non-remote rese) are fairly reasonably priced. A quick search says they are about 100 bones each, comaparable to the 7100 series emulsion shocks. IS there any reason you picked SAW vs. Fox vs Bilstein?

How much is a full set of different discs for tuning for the SAW's?

Have you played with nitro pressure as well as valving?

CRASH

Click to expand...

I didn't pick one over the other, nor was I looking for a new shock. They had been asking me for over a year to develop XJ specific coilovers for them, which I had no interest in. After talking to Bill during BOTW2 about his 9100's, I asked SAW if they wanted to develop a high-end mono tube shock, they agreed. They are also only 10 minutes from my house, which makes tuning easy.
I talked to the tech about using nitro pressure to fine tune, but he felt that for what I wanted out of the shocks he could get better results with discs. I don't know what a set of disks cost, but I'll find out. Once you get the hang of rebuilding them it only takes about 15 minutes each.
Paul

I've got wood. When you feel like they are valved correctly, shoot me a PM with the valving details, and I'll call SAW directly.

How are you recharging them after changing valves? Are you just doing it at SAW?

Can't wait to say good riddance to oil shocks for good. I've got a pile of leaking and swelled ones that need to be discarded.

I have a feeling Jes is in the market for a good set as well, after the racing in Moab.

CRASH

I've actually already got the valving worked out, I just need to take the rears back to where they were the time before last. I put a large stand-off on them last week & made them too soft on compression.
I've done all the rebuilding/charging at SAW. This way I can just tell them what I think we need to try, then watch while they do the work while I drink my latte.
I'll get back to you next week with specifics.
Paul

while I drink my latte.

Click to expand...

This is the Paul I know. I thought you were doing all this work yourself, which would astound me, since you pawn most all of your projects off on Garry or Blaine.

Nice, Paul, real nice.

CRASH

CRASH said:

or Blaine.

Click to expand...

I think you may have just made Paul cringe.

Ya, his SAWs are pretty bling and ya, I'm thinkin' about them. I want to go full bling with the remote reservoirs though.

Jes

I thought this was a Van Halen thread.

Jes said:

I think you may have just made Paul cringe.

Ya, his SAWs are pretty bling and ya, I'm thinkin' about them. I want to go full bling with the remote reservoirs though.

Jes

Click to expand...

Yeah, unfortunately I am stuck doing all mine own work, it really sucks. Actually, I have to do most of Garry's work too. Heading over there now to finish changing his ball joints (that I started 6 weeks ago).

Jes, you're going to have to debling something on that bilng machine before goin SAW's, too much bling colud be tacky.

Paul

Hey, I can't be that bling, I have a lot more body damage than you do.

BTW, I took out the rear seat belts and saved almost 10 LBS.

Jes

So SAW is trying to make a XJ specific shock, am I understanding this right? I'm running 5100's right now and they are pretty good except when cold, the ride is bouncy. And certain areas of the street the whole Jeep will start see sawing and hopping like a lowrider almost. No idea whats causing it but seems like the shocks should be able to control it better.

Crash where did you find the SAW for ~100?

www.polyperformance.com

They have Fox and SAW emulsion shocks and remote rese's. SAWs are much more than 100 because they all come set up for spring over. Fox makes a non-coilover emulsion.

Bilstein 7100's emulsions are about 100 all over the web.

Google is your friend.

CRASH

I've been looking at shocks a lot lately, thinking about what to do. I broke a front shock (ripped bottom out) at JV last week. I think the 5150's at 255/70 would be OK for the rear, but too soft for the front, based on what we like to do. While it's a little stiff, I like how mine handles best when my current 9000's in the rear are set on five (stiffest). For rockcrawling, I've got my shocks and suspension tuned to use all of the front shock travel (12") and most of the rear shock travel (10"), and this makes it hard when speed running because the shocks bottom out easily.

Here's a good chart I found for suggested Bilstein shock valving.
shock valving

Based on this chart, I'm thinking 275/78 rear and 360/80 front would be what we need, based on what we like to do. I'm having trouble figuring out how to have room to mount hydraulic bumpstops (need 15"), so I'm thinking the stiffer shock valving would work best. They will still flex when going slow and will give better stability. I kind of like the idea of going a little softer with the shocks and using the hydraulic bumpstops, but damn, those bumpstops are $200 each.

I'm also trying to figure out if it's worth redoing the mounts for heim ends or sticking with the bushings. The shocks that I like the best right now are the Bilstein 7100 short body, 12" front and 10" rear. They are remote resevoir with heim ends, and are exactly the dimensions that work for me based on my current mounts and shock lengths. I think I'd start with 360/80 in the front and 255/70 in the rear, and they are user rebuildable. I'd also go with a better poly bumpstop and see how they work before thinking more seriously about hydraulic bumps. I also am thinking about sticking with the bushing mounts for the rear and using 5150's (255/70) and then the 360/80 short body 7100's in the front. eShocks.com has some good info and pricing.

CRASH, did you get the pic I sent you?

Couple things for you Richard. The 7100 can be used with bushings as well as hiems. I'm using bushings on some of mine, like the rear lowers. I am valved 255/100 front and 255/70 rear. The front feels pretty good and the rear feels to soft (moves around a lot at high speed with any weight back there). When I revalve I'll move to 315/115 front and 315/100 rear. Mine are all short body 12" shocks. I have a 2" bumpstop extention in the front and with a little more, I could have squeezed in 14" short body shocks. Even with resevoirs mine get to hot to touch with in 2 miles speeding around J.V.

Marcus

Yeah, I'm wondering if the 255/70 might be too soft for the back, but if I go that route, with a 5150, I'll try to fit on a hydraulic bumpstop. I'm also considering going back to the factory sway bar in the rear and a Anti-Rock type sway bar in the front. The thinking is to gain some stability with the sway bars, handle bottoming the rear with the hydraulic bumpstops, and leave the shocks just a little softer. Fun stuff to think about....

The SAW shocks that Paul is testing are their Big Bore series, which are an actual 2" bore, and 2.25" shock body, and they come with bushings. I haven't been able to find any specs yet doing searches, only some product announcements from SEMA. SAW rates their shock valving differently than Bilstein, so it's difficult to draw a comparison. These SAW Big Bores might be a good way to go, but Paul said they will only offer a 10" shock with the XJ valving.

I see that the 5150's come with 360 PSI, while the normal rebuildable shocks like the 7100's come with 200-220 ( I think). I wonder how much different that makes a 5150 compared to a 7100 with the same valving.

Regarding the hydraulic bumps, I see that they are also available with a 2" stroke, which would make them much easier to fit. I have a pic of a TJ with hydraulic bumps on the front, mounted inside the coil in place of the factory bumpstop, and it is a 2" bump stop. It's hard to justify the money for these things and not get the 4" travel, but the 2" might work better for rock crawling and would be much easier to fit.

TJ with hydraulic bump