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Dana 30/44 hybrid! Opinions?

BillR

BillR

Toy Jeep driver!
Location
Flagstaff, AZ
Here's the link for the article...link

I have most of the parts to do this, as I picked up a full-width Dana 44 Ford axle. I was thinking about just sending the current 44 shafts I have to be resplined and shortened to fit the HP 30 carrier, but I wasn't sure as to the difference in thickness of the shafts. I assume using a 44 shaft would be at least a slight improvement in strength over the 30 shaft , and I'd be going to a full-floater with the 1/2 ton spindles, hubs, rotors, etc.
It looks quite a bit cheaper than a 44 swap if you're not a master fabricator, as a chopped-down 44 housing would need LOTS of brackets welded on for CAs, coils, trackbar, etc.
What are some of the things I need to consider? I assume the HP Dana 30 would have plenty of strength in a full-float setup, particularly using 44 axle shafts. (IF this is possible)
Tell me what I'm missing...:confused:
TIA!
 
Stick with the 44 and narrow it, if you can do all the things in the article then shortening the 44 and making, or welding on the brackets will be a piece of cake.

or if you current 44 has radius arms use those and make a crossmember for your jeep.

btw the dana 30 is a full float. the unit bearing carries the weight of the vehicle.

I think that is wandering willys article
 
Gary E said:
Stick with the 44 and narrow it, if you can do all the things in the article then shortening the 44 and making, or welding on the brackets will be a piece of cake.

btw the dana 30 is a full float. the unit bearing carries the weight of the vehicle.
Click to expand...
Gary-
Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't think I agree. :confused:
With a shortened 44, I'd need a bracket kit ($350) or use some old brackets that I'd chopped off and tried to use. There are also MANY measurements that would need to be dead-on for everything to work right with the coils, trackbar, CA mounts, swaybar mounts, etc.
With the hybrid axle, the ONLY thing to get correct is the angle of the inner knuckles when you reattach them so the caster is right. This would have to be done on the 44 also. Everything else looks to be bolt-on.
Like I said, PLEASE show me if I'm oversimplifing this, 'cause this sounds TOO easy.:confused:

BTW, you are correct on the D30 being FF. Good catch.:)
 
The D30 is NOT full float. The unit bearing does carry the weight of the vehicle, however without a stub shaft the unit bearing will split apart. The stub shaft holds it all together. Ask me how I know this :rolleyes: (actually, it wasn't me, it was a good buddy, and he wasted a knuckle and balljoint and a good stretch of pavement finding out the hard way:eek: )

Ary
 
Ary'01XJ said:
The D30 is NOT full float. The unit bearing does carry the weight of the vehicle, however without a stub shaft the unit bearing will split apart. The stub shaft holds it all together. Ask me how I know this :rolleyes: (actually, it wasn't me, it was a good buddy, and he wasted a knuckle and balljoint and a good stretch of pavement finding out the hard way:eek: )

Ary
Click to expand...
I had the same thing happen, Ary!:eek: It's a nasty situation.
The Dana 30 is a full-float because the axle doesn't carry the weight of the vehicle, as opposed to a rear design. The stub axle IS needed, but it doesn't carry any weight. You COULD do the same thing with a large bolt and nut, as far as holding the unit bearing together. (I don't think I'd want to try this...):eek:
 
Yes, but technically isn't the wheel retained by the axle?? Thereby making it SF?? I'm just trying to be difficult :D
 
Ary'01XJ said:
Yes, but technically isn't the wheel retained by the axle?? Thereby making it SF?? I'm just trying to be difficult :D
Click to expand...
Nope! The wheel is bolted to the hub bearing. All the axle does is provide drive and in this case hold the bearing together. (as we know...);)
 
If you can't use a tape and weld brakets then I don't think building a hybrid axle is a good idea. Making brackets is pretty easy, and just measure twice, cut once. The d30 will still have a weaker gearset, tubes that are prone to flexing, and it just won't be as strong as the perfectly good d44 you would chop up to do this. Just shorten it to waggy length and use waggy shafts, or better yet leave it full length.
 
you are leaving out costs also. Yes you can buy the expensive bracket kit, or make them for cheap. I bet the bracket kit is pretty close to the cost of cutting and resplining those shafts. The 44 shafts splined down to fit in a 30 will not be any stronger than regular 30 shafts, the weak point is still the splines.

You also know you have to use dana 30 inner Cs off of a cj right? your ford inner Cs will not work on your dana 30 tubes.

What are you doing the swap for, if its overall strength you want keep it all high pinion 44. If you really just want hubs and high steer and are happy running 33s or smaller the hybrid axle might be a good idea.

Is the HP 44 set up for leafs or coil spring? If its coil spring run the radius arms. Thats the simplest most effective way. You get long arms and a stronger diff all in one step.

Its definatly full float. The stub is loaded only in tension not in shear. IMHO people get all amped about full float for little reason, yes Its nice to have but it does you little good unless you are going to start carrying loads of concrete in the back of your jeep.
 
Gary E said:
you are leaving out costs also. Yes you can buy the expensive bracket kit, or make them for cheap. I bet the bracket kit is pretty close to the cost of cutting and resplining those shafts. The 44 shafts splined down to fit in a 30 will not be any stronger than regular 30 shafts, the weak point is still the splines.

You also know you have to use dana 30 inner Cs off of a cj right? your ford inner Cs will not work on your dana 30 tubes.

If you really just want hubs and high steer and are happy running 33s or smaller the hybrid axle might be a good idea.

Is the HP 44 set up for leafs or coil spring? If its coil spring run the radius arms. Thats the simplest most effective way. You get long arms and a stronger diff all in one step.
Click to expand...
If I ran radius arms, I'd have to run full-width. (unless I relocated the mounts...THAT'S an idea...) The 44 IS set-up for coils.
The bracket kit is $350, and I'm pretty sure I can get axles cut down for less than that.
I'm not planning on anything bigger than 33s, due to an adversion to sawing on a 2001!:eek: I don't have the cajones for that just yet. I was looking for hubs, high-steer, and 5 on 5 1/2.
Thanks for making me think...
 
Just cut the hp d44 tubes down to waggy width and use waggy shafts with the ford outers. For hy steer you can run dodge outer that are flat top nuckles and 5.5 on 5, or run chevy outers with ford rotors and hubs.
 
Run an early Bronco axle and you would come close to the correct width.

When I build my 44 I bought RE's uppper control arm brackets because I didn't have the ability to bend the bridge and didn't think heating and bending or cutting and welding was a good option. After it was done and I finished cutting and welding the RE bracket :D I should have built it.

I agree with CW though. If your not confortable making the brackets I would attempt swapping the knuckles.

I think Hinkley's (http://www.orgsmfg.com/project/WJKnuckle.htm) kit looks appealing for better steering angles and you could do the Warn hub kit to get better bearings as an alternative.

Lincoln
 
CW. said:
Just cut the hp d44 tubes down to waggy width and use waggy shafts with the ford outers. For hy steer you can run dodge outer that are flat top nuckles and 5.5 on 5, or run chevy outers with ford rotors and hubs.
Click to expand...
CW, that's the EASY part. The issue is MOUNTING the 44 into my XJ with the CAs, trackbar, and coils. I just spent some good coin on the drop brackets and adjustable CAs, and they work great. i want to keep using them, and not try to fab some type of crossmember to run the radius arms...
 
Lincoln said:
Run an early Bronco axle and you would come close to the correct width.

When I build my 44 I bought RE's uppper control arm brackets because I didn't have the ability to bend the bridge and didn't think heating and bending or cutting and welding was a good option. After it was done and I finished cutting and welding the RE bracket :D I should have built it.

I agree with CW though. If your not confortable making the brackets I would attempt swapping the knuckles.

I think Hinkley's (http://www.orgsmfg.com/project/WJKnuckle.htm) kit looks appealing for better steering angles and you could do the Warn hub kit to get better bearings as an alternative.

Lincoln
Click to expand...
Lincoln-
Do you have a pic of the axle under yours? I want to see the RE control arm mount on a 44. Did you use the other brackets for the coils, trackbar, etc?
I remember your rig. You were the tail gunner for us at Kane Creek on Saturday. I was the one in the red 2001 Sport.
TIA!
 
Ask the wife how good my memory is. :) I do think I remember you though.

I fubarred the RE brackets. I wanted to raise the lowers even with the tube so I also increased the height of the uppers. With the bridge the uppers were already a little higher. So I added a 1/2" thick plate to space the drivers side up and cut the passenger side in half and added a little material. I then added a few gussets here and there.

For the rest I made my own stuff except for the lower coil mounts and I used a set off a Ford.

PM me with your e-mail and I send a few more. Can't see much in the pics though.

almost_done_d44.jpg
 
BillR........you're making this way too hard on yourself.

Use the RD44. Run the 5 on 5.5" rotors. Do a 4 link on the D44. You can get laser cut tabs from many places for the upper and lower control arms. Use a piece of square tube, creatively cut for your trackbar. Flat plate for a spring perch 'base', a piece of 3"ish (whatever the coils measure at the bottom and make them long enough you won't need bumpstop extensions) tube that is capped will make good coil mounts.

For the diff upper control arm mount, you may need to bend a piece of tube up and over the housing unless you trust your ability to weld to cast. I've seen it done both ways..........


TONS of information out there about this.
 
or buy a beam axle out of a 2wd cherokee cut all the mounts off and weld them on your new housing. They can normally be had super cheap.
 
Well, after consulting with several folks both here and locally, I started on the HP 44 today. Hopefully by the fall event next year in Colorado, I'll have 44s in both ends. Actually, the rear's going in just a couple of weeks from now. The axle will be here on Tuesday, and I'll rebuild it with an Aussie before installing it.
Thanks for ALL the advice and insight.
:)
 
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