-
Welcome to the new NAXJA Forum! If your password does not work, please use "Forgot your password?" link on the log-in page. Please feel free to reach out to [email protected] if we can provide any assistance.
anyone do pinion or output emergency brake?
- Thread starter BUCKYXJ
- Start date
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
if I had a transfercase with a cast steel or iron housing, sure...
but i'd be damn hesitant to affix drum or disc bracketry on a 231 or 242! but that's just me.
I'd keep pushing to engineer some kind of rear wheel brake.
pinion brake is a no-go for clearance reasons
but i'd be damn hesitant to affix drum or disc bracketry on a 231 or 242! but that's just me.
I'd keep pushing to engineer some kind of rear wheel brake.
pinion brake is a no-go for clearance reasons
SeanP
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rocklin, CA
ball valve, get a good one for $30. Not DOT approved, but it works.
- Location
- Indiana-Missouri
sean, you be meanin' line lock right?
they work pretty good?
they work pretty good?
4ward
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Dayton, OH
Mr. P's talkin' about a manual line lock. They do work. I see quite a few of the competitors using 'em for cuttting brakes.
I think a output brake could be done. Actually I think high angle already prototyped one.
I think a output brake could be done. Actually I think high angle already prototyped one.
My main reason for doing this is I don't trust emergency brakes never have never will. I am just talking about the emergency brake please explain the ball valve thing or line lock as for DOT approved I think if the DOT saw my jeep they would crap their pants.
Thanks
As always keep Diggin IT.
Thanks
As always keep Diggin IT.
SeanP
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Rocklin, CA
High Angle has one for the atlas, but you have to use the 1350 flange fitting with it. The whole she'bang was going to cost me $700 all said and done with a new drive line.
Electric line locks are not good, they will over heat after a while plus you don't want electricity holding the vehicle in place.
Ball valve: Get a good quality one. Run SS line from the master cyclinder to the ball valve and more SS from the valve to the t-fitting on the rear axle. Step on brakes, flip the valve and the vehicle will stay. Read on PBB of folks having it hold for 6 months and no bleed-down. Still you are using hydro to hold the vehilce , which according the DOT is big no-no. I had the caddy calipers on my old 9" rear discs and they sucked balls big time.
SeanP
Electric line locks are not good, they will over heat after a while plus you don't want electricity holding the vehicle in place.
Ball valve: Get a good quality one. Run SS line from the master cyclinder to the ball valve and more SS from the valve to the t-fitting on the rear axle. Step on brakes, flip the valve and the vehicle will stay. Read on PBB of folks having it hold for 6 months and no bleed-down. Still you are using hydro to hold the vehilce , which according the DOT is big no-no. I had the caddy calipers on my old 9" rear discs and they sucked balls big time.
SeanP
SeanP said:
An FYI on using a ball valve:
I have been told that under panic stop conditions brake line pressures can exceed 1000 psi. I would make very sure you are getting a valve rated for this pressure of service.
I guess you could calc your piston dia times the pedal force (adding vac booster force) and get an estimate.
There is also a product called "Mico Lock" (I think). It's a manual line lock exactly designed for the purpose.
Yup, MicoLock is the brand name for a line lock. It's a nifty little gizmo where you set the lock and tromp on the brake pedal; it acts like a check valve. Releasing it opens a bypass.
http://www.mico.com/litpdf/80-950-152.pdf
SCORE! Look at the last entry on page 3 of the PDF for a cable operated line lock.
Sean, I was under the impression that the DOT's issue wasn't that the ebrake was hydro, it was that it wasn't a completely separate system, i.e. expanding the shoes via a cable instead of a hydro piston.
http://www.mico.com/litpdf/80-950-152.pdf
SCORE! Look at the last entry on page 3 of the PDF for a cable operated line lock.
Sean, I was under the impression that the DOT's issue wasn't that the ebrake was hydro, it was that it wasn't a completely separate system, i.e. expanding the shoes via a cable instead of a hydro piston.
Rev Den
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainfield, IL
BUCKYXJ said:
I am sure you thought of this...but just in case. Remember that a brake on the DS will only hold the vehicle on a slick surface if the diff is locked-up, otherwise one wheel can spin while the vehicle moves in the other direction.
Just my .02
Rev
Rev Den said:
Uh, no.
In order for tires to turn with the drive shaft locked, they need to turn in opposite directions.
This is an impossible scenario assuming there is equal friction on the two tires.
Also, only a full spool does not allow for a wheel to turn at all with the DS locked. All auto lockers will allow the axle to turn faster than the ring gear, just not slower.
RCP Phx
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Phoenix,Az
One dis-advantage to the driveline brake is that rear drivetrain failure could result in no E-brakes at all!
MrShoeBoy
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cincinnati, OH
High Angle Driveline has a t-case ebrake for the NP 231. I helped prototype/set one up at Carolina Rock Shop for Beast 40's Wrangler who is over on JU. The kit was never made complete for the 231. It used to just come with the driveshaft, rotor, caliper and brackets. I believe the hand e-brake setup came from a Nissan B2500. This handle had a 2:1 or a 3:1 ratio in the handle for more mechanical advantage. Then custom cable was made from the Nissan handle to the caliper. The caliper is from an airport luggage hauler If I am not mistaken. This was the first 231 t-case ebrake that has been able to work. You can try and email Beast but he wont know what he is talking about, he has all stuff done at CRSU. Andy at Carolina Rock Shop has all the details on how to get it working.
www.carolinarockshop.com
www.beast40.com
AARON
www.carolinarockshop.com
www.beast40.com
AARON
Rev Den
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Plainfield, IL
C-ROK said:
I had it happen, icy driveway in Chicago....I wheel on dry pavment, 1 wheel one ice, watched truck roll/slide into street. Given equal friction you are correct....sorry, should have explained it better.
Rev
Safari Ary
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Virginia Beach, VA
Rev Den said:
Really? Can't believe you admitted it
but good to know :angel: :anon:Rev Den said:
I got it.
But of course you could have scenarios where it wouldn't work because both wheels were on ice too
Still holds true though on the locker. You can actually spin one wheel of a locked axle by hand, even though the other wheel and pinion will not turn.
Now if your vehicle is in 4WD you'll also get the braking from the front wheels byb holding the rear output.
JeepFreak21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cameron Park, CA
SeanP said:
Sean - The consensus on line locks are either people love them or they hate them. I've heard quite a few people say never to trust it for hours at a time or overnight and others say theirs hasn't lost pressure in 6 months. I haven't had an e-brake in almost a year... I'm just careful where I park. What worries me more is a brake line fails or something and I have no way to stop. And a line lock wouldn't even help in that situation. As far as the electric ones go, I believe most just use an electric actuator to "flip the valve", not to actually hold the pressure... and I've also seen a few that have a manual override.
C-ROK said:
I'm not sure when the situation would arise when you need to do a panic stop and then lock the ball vavle. You don't need to press the pedal to the floor and lock it just to keep the rig from rolling... if it takes that much pressure... maybe you should park somewhere else
I think you miss the point.
If the valve is in the line and the line pressure goes to 1000 psi, the valve needs to be able to handle the pressure.
Being able to hold pressure has nothing to do with it. It has to hold together under pressure.
The solenoid in an electric line lock is holding the valve closed and must be continuously energized to do so. The solenoids on electric line locks are not rated for continuous duty. If you left it on for longer than it was rated it could overheat and trip off - opening the valve.
FWIW, I run an electric line lock on my Jeep and have for a few years. I did most of the research on them years ago while I was building.
I went with electric for simplicity (wires were easier to run than steel brake lines). Mine's on the front axle and I only use it for offroad manuevering and the occasional burnout
I have a regular e-brake on the rear and a "P" in the tranny.
If the valve is in the line and the line pressure goes to 1000 psi, the valve needs to be able to handle the pressure.
Being able to hold pressure has nothing to do with it. It has to hold together under pressure.
The solenoid in an electric line lock is holding the valve closed and must be continuously energized to do so. The solenoids on electric line locks are not rated for continuous duty. If you left it on for longer than it was rated it could overheat and trip off - opening the valve.
FWIW, I run an electric line lock on my Jeep and have for a few years. I did most of the research on them years ago while I was building.
I went with electric for simplicity (wires were easier to run than steel brake lines). Mine's on the front axle and I only use it for offroad manuevering and the occasional burnout
I have a regular e-brake on the rear and a "P" in the tranny.
JeepFreak21
NAXJA Forum User
- Location
- Cameron Park, CA
C-ROK said:I think you miss the point.
If the valve is in the line and the line pressure goes to 1000 psi, the valve needs to be able to handle the pressure.
Being able to hold pressure has nothing to do with it. It has to hold together under pressure.
The solenoid in an electric line lock is holding the valve closed and must be continuously energized to do so. The solenoids on electric line locks are not rated for continuous duty. If you left it on for longer than it was rated it could overheat and trip off - opening the valve.
FWIW, I run an electric line lock on my Jeep and have for a few years. I did most of the research on them years ago while I was building.
I went with electric for simplicity (wires were easier to run than steel brake lines). Mine's on the front axle and I only use it for offroad manuevering and the occasional burnout
I have a regular e-brake on the rear and a "P" in the tranny.
I stand corrected
