Big Bear run on April 6th

[Kejtar]

Any takers? I am thinking about a nice moderate trail run. Not sure of the trails yet, but I figure it will be a grand opportunity for me to test out my GPS and the new book that I got on order from Frenchie :)

Kejtar

[RyanSullivan]

[quote:152dbc6b5d="Kejtar"]Any takers? I am thinking about a nice moderate trail run. Not sure of the trails yet, but I figure it will be a grand opportunity for me to test out my GPS and the new book that I got on order from Frenchie :)

Kejtar[/quote:152dbc6b5d]

If it will be moderate for me and my Jeep :D then I'll go.

[GSequoia]

I'll have to talk to Holly, but I'm quite certian we'll make it, sounds like fun! Maybe I'll even have a CD for you Remi!

[Xtreme XJ]

Hey Remi !
I was finally able to register...... Apr. 6th. Theres a slim chance I
might be able to make that...slim though.

Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[Kejtar]

well... ok now I am under pressure... I gotta find a cool moderate trail :)

Btw, all present will have to have at minimum front and rear tow points as well as a CB and a fire extinguisher.

Kejtar

[Kejtar]

Btw, Great seeing you here :) :) How do you like the new format?
I am still discovering all the neat little features..... the forum is supposed to send me an email each time someone posts, although I don't think that's 100% working yet LOL

Kejtar

[Xtreme XJ]

Remi:
It notified me that you replied to my post. Ft. & Rr. tow points....if I go it looks like I'll have to finally break down & get that gas skid & receiver hitch.....
Whats John Bull rated at ? Theres also a trail that leaves the N.side of Baldwin (dry) Lake and goes North up over the hill & meets with a graded Rd. E. of the start of the John Bull. I've only been up there afew times. Is there gonna be any snow left?
You might check with Ed Stevens or post for someone whos spent time up there.
See Ya !
Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[Kejtar]

Is rated as one of the harder trails. There nice part about BB is that there are a looooot of trails of varied difficulty. I will start looking into it on Monday :)

In regards to tow points, we all like to feel like we'd never need them, but as life goes we need them most when we don't have them :eek: . When it comes to putching the hitch on though, it's easy. I don't think it took me even 20 minutes of actual work (although I had one bolt on the tank skid that had to soak for a while :D

Remi aka Kejtar

[rpili2001]

Ketjar,

John Bull is moderately difficult. There is one rock garden that could give cars with no rocker panel protection some problems.

A good run is Gold Mountain - John Bull - Holcomb Creek. That would take you most of the day.

Gold Mountain is green to dark green. Holcomb Creek is dark green but has fun water crossings and a couple of fun rock sections that are difficult for the unlocked with 30 inch tires.

Ray

[GRNT]

Why use BB when during the summer that is the only place that you will want to run when it is still hot in the desert. You should still be using areas that are nice now but hot later

[Xtreme XJ]

Hell it was push'n the high 80s today in the low desert today (Sun). Good point about wheel'n later on in warmer months up on the hill. I know of a moderate trip E.of Indio (about the only one left open) but thats ALONG way to come for some that are N.E. of L.A. or even L.A. for that matter. B.B. is kinda centralized.
Oh Well ! just think'n out loud....sorry.
Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[Kejtar]

I would drive almost anywhere :) (waking up early for me is a M-F things so I don't care that much anymore) but some are not willing to do that for a one day thing. This puts us at BB which is as XtremeJ pointed out somewhat centralized........ But in summer... well, I ran through Mojave with no AC in my old 86 2.8l which ran a bit hot :) And lets just say that there is lot to be said for open windows :)

Kejtar

[Bent]

Holcomb Valley and John Bull are good. If you go over Gold Mtn from the Baldwin side you can do it in a bone stock rig. There was about 12"-16" of snow up there last week, but that wont last too long in this weather.

I may not be able to make it to the meet and greet in JV after all,so I'd like to meet some of you on this run. When and where would we be meeting?

[Kejtar]

run on the 6th :) and meeting time and spot not determined yet :) :)

Kejtar

[Ed A. Stevens]

I may not get two Jeep weekends in a row, and JV takes priority, so do not count me as confirmed for a 4/6/03 BB run (unless I can take a little person to ride shotgun).

I do suggest making it an introduction run with a variety of terrain. Make the run start time 9AM or 10AM (give people time to climb the mountain).

Make the run mildly challenging for the introduction, with proximity to some of the harder parts (to recruit future run participants).

The suggestion of starting with Gold Mountain from Hwy 18 is great. One challenging stair step ledge (that can be driven around) is the only tight spot for the unprotected, and great views of the valley.

Leaving GM at Holcomb Valley Road (3N16) I would head west to Burn Flats road (3N02). This will take you to the intermediate part of John Bull (3N10). Again, there are two sections with rocks and root challenges, but passible with 225's (and no rocker damage if spotted patiently). This run will deposit the group at the intersection of 3N10 and 3N32 for a deserved break (or lunch depending on start time).

The drivers wanting a challenge can play on the hard part of John Bull (1/4 mile west on 3N10) while on break. Up and down, to/from John Bull Flat, can be fun to drive (and watch) but keep the group together for the duration (do not split into two groups). I find getting-it in this little section of JB is quite satisifying, without the wear and wait of taking a group through the complete trail.

I would not pressure anyone unprepared to run this section of John Bull (better to return for a more advanced run this summer). I have had groups enjoy being spectators in this area for well over an hour, so remain flexible to allow people to enjoy. There is little need to make the run a forced expedition, with lots of good runs to return to in the future.

Take 3N32 back to 3N16, or if you know the way take the boulder squeeze trail to 3N07, and then head west on 3N16.

This return to 3N16 allows people who need to get off the mountain early an opportunity to get back to the main highway (via Polique Canyon Road).

Run 3N16 west to 3N08, to cut over to 3N14. This takes the group below a limestone mine and above upper Holcomb Creek (an area with pioneer history) to 3N14 (another opportunity for folks who have appointments to return to the highway via Fawnskin, can I stress to be flexible in the afternoon for people with schedules).

From 3N14 you can run 2N13 to the Butler Peak fire lookout (easy, if open, for a fantastic view) or begin Holcomb Creek (3N93, moderately hard -- you need rocker protection).

Both trails terminate at 3N16, both will consume close to two hours for a moderate group. It's better to not gamble a race with sunlight until the long summer days.

If needed, Holcomb Creek trail can be split at Canada Larga (2N07X), or continue on 3N93 to 3N16

This west end of 3N16 will allow a return to Hwy 330 through Green Valley and Running Springs.

You can also bypass 3N08 and run 3N16 west to begin White Mountain (2N17), in place of Holcomb Creek (a view from the top of a ridge rather than the bottom of a canyon), but again, it may be better combined with a summer run. I have it on good faith that an informal more difficult run will be scheduled with SoCalXJ folks in the summer.

All of these runs can be found on the USFS map or the Sidekick map.

The proximity of the SBNF should allow for a number of return trips and a variety of challenges (no need to over schedule the day). This is one of the good and bad points of the SBNF: the ease of making a day run into a tour of the challenges (Gold Mountain, John Bull, Holcomb Creek or Cleghorn, 2N17X, Deep Creek) or keeping the pace and expectation slow enough to enjoy the journey (watch more than just the trail).

With a little flexibility you will have a full day wheeling, with optional challenges and great scenery.

[Kejtar]

I think you more or less planned it for me :) :) I will post in next couple days a meeting spot with the time.

Kejtar

[Kejtar]

we welcome the little person to the run too :) :)

Kejtar

[GSequoia]

Great...now I have to get Tow Hooks Brackets. Maybe I'll just buy some cheap ones at Kragen and use sheet metal screws into my bumper. :)

Sounds good to me though. I trust you won't mind if I bring my father along, even though he'll be driving a SWB Ford Ranger 4x4? :anon:

Sequoia

[GSequoia]

Oh..one more thing...I'll be coming in from 2NO2 out of Pioneertown when I go. I'll do that on Saturday, camping there Saturday night. Anybody that wants to run that little trail with me is free to (it's easy, you can take it stock).

Sequoia

[Xtreme XJ]

Sequoia
Isn't that the LONG.. way. How far up will you be camping?
Just curious... I try to do a snow run up through there each year.
See Ya !
Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[GSequoia]

Long way it is, especially when coming from Torrance. My father lives in Yucca Valley, so the idea is I'd go get him and his Ranger, we'd drive up 2NO2, and camp somewhere around the meeting place (none of us are morning people, so it'd be best to be right there!

[Kejtar]

Meeting spot and time:
We will meet on April 6th at 8:30 with trail departure by 9am (plenty of time to get there: I will be driving from Westminster and I plan to make it there early :) ).

The meeting spot will be the beginning of the trail at the staging area:
As your'e going north on 330 and it merges with the 18 look at your odometer. About 2.8 miles north from that spot, there is aroad that goes left. It's called Green Valley Way. Turn left onto it (well it only goes left) and go another 2 miles or so till you come to a road that goes left. That will be 3N16. If you pass a small lake on your left you went too far. Anyways, there might be a sign directing you to crab flats campground and or staging area. As you're on 3N16, very quickly you should come to a parking/staging area to your right. That's where we're going to be.

Set your CB to channel 4 if you can't find us and give us a holler. FYI, CB's don't work too well in the mountains so if you're too far or on the wrong side of the mountains we might not be able to hear you.

I would like for everyone to have front and rear towpoints, (hitch is ok both front and rear) as well as a fire extinguisher, a full size spare and some food and stuff to drink of course :) :). Oh.. lets not forget CB's of course. If you don't have a CB try to get one (handhelds are ussually OK, but if you won't be able to, let us know ahead of time so that we can plan for it.

Btw, it's easy to miss the turn off, so I include two maps. The frist one is of mapquest and second one is one I scanned. Please email me @ obiezyswiat@socal.rr.com with any questions.


http://home.socal.rr.com/remi/pics/map.jpg
http://home.socal.rr.com/remi/pics/map1.jpg

[Andy Steiner]

Originally posted by Kejtar
but I figure it will be a grand opportunity for me to test out my GPS and the new book that I got on order from Frenchie :)


Is that book from Frenchie great or what?!?!

I just got it today and pretty much blew off work so that I could check out all the trails I want to run.

I'll be out at Goffs Schoolhouse <http://www.mdhca.org> that weekend, so I can't make it.

[Kejtar]

it's prety good :) I have seen it advertised in the united voice last spring (UFWDA publication) and I had it on order but it didn't get printed on time (by may) and I though it's never going to make it.... But now it comes in handy. Sometimes it just tells me what the hell the road I was on at one time or other is called.

Kejtar

[Xtreme XJ]

So would that be at Lake Arrowhead ? Running Springs ? I'd like to be pretty full when we start.

Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[GSequoia]

Well, I figure we'll camp somewhere right near the start of the run, that way if we oversleep somebody driving a white XJ can honk his horn! I'll pull out my maps and such and look into it sometime before the 6th (I can't do it THIS far in advance!) and let you know where I choose.

Sequoia
NOT a morning person!

[Kejtar]

If you look at the map, crab flats campground is just up the road :)

Kejtar

[GSequoia]

Hey Remi, you posted a link on SoCalXJ for forest adventure passes, would you mind throwing that up here as well, I'll be buying mine tomorrow once I get paid (and get my checking account in order...I screwed up bad this month!

[Kejtar]

Well I guess I am getting old and forgetfull LOL.... Anyways, when in the area, one needs theForest Adventure Pass (http://www.bigbeardiscoverycenter.com/pages/adventurepass.html#getadventurepass) . It's something that's supposed to supports the forest people, and well, it's good to have (in order to avoid getting a ticket at least). I will leave that to each person to obtain it. I would recommend picking up the one for $30 as it's for a whole year and for all the local forests :)

As far as I know, you can also get the annual ones in Sport Chalet.

Kejtar

[Ed A. Stevens]

Remi,

From the Crab Flats end of 3N16 you may want to reverse the trail recommendation I provided.

Run Holcomb Creek (3N93), or Canada Larga (2N07X) to Holcomb Creek up to 3N14. Both 2N07X and 3N93 has some areas where rocker protection is needed. This is not a radical trail but it does have rocks, and is not good for stock XJ's unless you are willing to risk a scratch & dent.

The easy start alternative from this end of 3N16 is to run up to Butler Peak and back, through 3N12, to 3N14.

The rest of the run can be reversed: 3N14 to 3N08, up to 3N16 again

Over to John Bull's (3N10's) west end and slightly up and over to 3N07, then drive up through the boulder squeeze to 3N32 (look for the mine claim posts and the leaving Forest property signs off 3N07 behind the large spruce tree).

Run this boulder squeeze road north to the 3N32/3N10 intersection (the middle of 3N10) where those that want can run the hard part of John Bull.

Then leave by taking the easiest eastern part of 3N10 to 3N02, back to 3N16, to end the run with a drive over Gold Mountain (3N69) to Highway 18.

This run drives almost the full length of Holcomb Valley Road (3N16) without spending all the time on the Holcomb Valley Freeway (you will know why it's has this nickname when you are on it).

I'll be in BB this Saturday running much of what I describe, but in reverse, starting from the east end of Holcomb Valley Road. We will also be locating the epicenter of the most recent earthquake (somewhere off of 3N02).

Happy Trails!

[Kejtar]

THanks Ed, so we might get lucky and see you? LOL :)

For those who wondered about services, here is a better map:
general area map (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&addtohistory=&address=18+and+330&city=running+springs&state=ca&zipcode=&homesubmit=Get+Map) which should give you an idea what's where :)

Kejtar

[GSequoia]

Dude, Ed, can I have you plan out my runs too! :) At some point I'll be at the camp that Remi mentioned if you're in the area on Saturday...I haven't planned the whens yet though, but I'm flexible if you want to meet up with at least one more XJ (and Ford Ranger). I'll be keeping the CB on channel 4 while up there.

[RyanSullivan]

So.. will my jeep make it with 4.5 lift 32's but I'm open and got no protection :(

[Kejtar]

Ryan, I don't think you should have any problems: You have the clearance and height.... might just have to use a bit of the skinny pedal at times though

Kejtar

[GSequoia]

But you got front tow points now, so you don't have to go :moon: first anymore! I've only got 3" and 235/75/15's, I'm going....so now I'll be the little guy!

[mikeyl]

hey kej. this sounds like a great chance to meet some of the naxja and socal group,the JV run still sounds a bit crazy from what i read in the links earlier.. i am in yorba linda so i will try to keep an eye on this link and try to tuck in behind for the ride up. i currently have the tow points but no cb, will the fsr walkie talkies work? i have used them many times both on the road and on mt whitney. or is the cb absolutley needed, after leading hiking groups over the years i know how important communications is. thanks
mikeyl
NAXJ member#522
keep the traction side down!

[Kejtar]

I got a spare handheld CB or two which doesn't work the best but it will work... remind me before we go and I will bring it with me. WHere in Yorba Linda are you? We can Caravan up, as I will be passing you on my way there. FYI I will probably be leaving WEstminster at 5:30 am to get there early so I will be driving by YB at about 5:45.... btw, do bring your FRS too so in case you get out of the range of the handheld CB (or it takes a dive) I can still reach you (I got a GMRS as well as handheld 2m/70cm and both of each work on FRS)

Kejtar

[jimk403]

So, even if I have successfully traversed these trails before, I still need tow hooks?
Anyone have any they aren't using?

[Xtreme XJ]

Hey Remi:
Isn't the 5th./ 6th. the time change weekend? And if so are we leaving at 0900 new time or old time?
Tired already....
Curt (aka Xtreme XJ)

[Kejtar]

I think you're right... but it's 0900 current time!! so if it's a time change the time is supposed to include the time change :)

Hope that made sense LOL

Kejtar

[GSequoia]

This damn time change thing always confuses me! Anotehr good reason that I'm coming up that evening!

But still...soo..

You talking 0900 Standard or daylight time?
(just playing devil's advocate)

[Kejtar]

now you're confusing me..... whatever the official tiem is going to be then... that's the time (I ussually look at my cell phone or at my computer to figure out what the right time is LOL)
Kejtar

[GSequoia]

Hey Jim up there....

I'd go for either two hooks or a front receiver (I went for the reciever). I know your feelings about how you've done the trail before, but rules is rules. Also, it may be stickier up there then usual anyhow with snow runoff and such.

[Ed A. Stevens]

So on the 6th the gathering point will be the staging area on 3N16 near Crab Flats on the Green Valley end?

It looks like I will be in BB this weekend (the wife wants to paint the cabin bathroom before her "girl's weekend" at the end of the month).

[GSequoia]

By all means come on out! I want to meet you anyway since you know so much about my building (Library Tower), kinda makes me nervous!

I'm sure you won't mind me poking around your tire carrier while there, just taking a look at a few things ,right?

sequoia

[Ed A. Stevens]

No problem looking at the carrier, it's abused and ugly, but it works.

[Kejtar]

Ed... by all means come on out :) :)

Kejtar