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Ecomike
October 20th, 2017, 14:51
Any way to easily clean AW4 transmissions that were under water in the recent floods? Been about 7 weeks now, not sure its worth the trouble. Also have a head that got flooded. What a mess my shop is in now :(

Jeeps were OK :loveu:

LessThanJoe
October 20th, 2017, 16:47
I wouldn't bother. The water will dissolve the band glue, they'll crumble apart, and any rust or corrosion will clog the minuscule passages in the valve body. There's a reason the inside of a trans looks so immaculately clean even after 300k miles - never any water to cause damage.

Edit- From experience I had a flood submerged XJ that I was able to drain the fluid 2 days after the flood. The amount of water coming out will amaze you. Even after 2 days it was completely trashed inside. Not to mention all the water that drained out was clear, which means all the mud and floating debris that went into the trans, was still in there. The engine on the other hand, was able to be saved with a simple drain, refill, run til hot, drain, repeat.

Ecomike
October 20th, 2017, 18:48
Thanks for the feedback. Hmm, I not aware of any cured glue made by man that is water soluble and not dissolved by transmission fluid. Having a hard time with that, but the first gear and I think reverse was already gone in the 4x4 87 AW4 (accumulator seals were old and worn out), it was ready for a rebuild, tear-down. The solenoids were good and the valve body good, etc just needed new o'ring seals, and maybe new clutch plates (yet to be determined). The other was an 89, 2WD AW4 in working order.

"Even after 2 days it was completely trashed inside." Trashed how? What exactly did you find inside? Was it operated while flooded before taking it apart?

In my case it was all clean rain water on my shop floor, rising flood water, no dirt or mud. 17" :eyes: fell in 4 hours. The rising flood water, heavier than Tfluid, just filled the case and then drained right back out of the open transmission line fittings on the side of the case. No doubt leaving some water in the drain pan.
What about the Torque Converters that were still good and still installed?

How do they store rebuilt transmissions? Any one know? is suspect they are not filled (no way to ship etc) but just wetted down with Transmission fluid? As I recall water and transmission fluid will emulsify when stirred?




I wouldn't bother. The water will dissolve the band glue, they'll crumble apart, and any rust or corrosion will clog the minuscule passages in the valve body. There's a reason the inside of a trans looks so immaculately clean even after 300k miles - never any water to cause damage.

Edit- From experience I had a flood submerged XJ that I was able to drain the fluid 2 days after the flood. The amount of water coming out will amaze you. Even after 2 days it was completely trashed inside. Not to mention all the water that drained out was clear, which means all the mud and floating debris that went into the trans, was still in there. The engine on the other hand, was able to be saved with a simple drain, refill, run til hot, drain, repeat.

Green XJ Jeep
October 20th, 2017, 20:28
The only way I can think of is to flush it with a fluid exchange machine before starting. Not sure on how well they work on torque converters.

Ecomike
October 20th, 2017, 20:57
The only way I can think of is to flush it with a fluid exchange machine before starting. Not sure on how well they work on torque converters.

I cleaned starters, 120 Volt skill saw, drill etc with compressed air, and they still work fine after being under water.:yap: Assuming the alternators are good after the clean water bath, and blow dry, LOL.

The Li-Ion battery powered stuff was fried at the contacts on both ends, green goo after just 2-3 days of water exposure.

I may try compressed air? And a back oven? Then refill the TCs with some Tranny fluid?

Rice was popular dryer for cell phones 10 years ago LOL.

Its a think out side the box day for me, never had to do this before, but I know there are shops that do this sort of thing all the time. Entire cars.

lawagoneer
October 20th, 2017, 21:17
I would try flushing and then tearing down to see if worth rebuilding. Sounds like it was already due for some work. I lived in New Orleans for 20+ years and got flooding a few times. We would drain, flush, change the filter and run. Never any problems. Water in the fluid is easy to spot as it turns Pepto Bismol pink. I'd give it a try you really have nothing to lose.

Alaskan89XJ
October 21st, 2017, 07:42
Best wishes Ecomike: About some glues; Epoxy hardener, and resin is superior to polyester hardener, and resin. Both are used in boat hull fabrications. Epoxy is best because it leaks less on the molecular level.., but both are penetrated by water, as water 'is' the universal solvent. I reckon water introduced to any epoxied parts to metal over an extended period of time would not be good. (automatic transmissions are new to me).

On this issue I side with Green XJ Joe on his two points, and lawagoneer for his suggestions.

Heavyopp
October 21st, 2017, 08:32
A friend of mines shop went under water here in Jersey a few years back -- he said as soon as the water subsided everything that got submerged was then dropped in a light oil "diesel fuel" and left there

that stopped corrosion immediately -- he was then able to take his time and clean everything properly -- Took quite awhile but he was able to save almost everything

Not saying thats a smart move for a transmission, but your expensive shop tools went under -- they need something to displace the water fast -- air doesn't get everything

WD40 = water displacement 40

If it where my stuff, every tool submerged would get a coat of WD40 -- yes its gonna be messy -- but you will save your stuff

Ecomike
October 21st, 2017, 10:13
Thanks for the reply, but being a materials science-chemical engineer, I gotta disagree with the quoted parts in bold, as I know better " Epoxy is best because it leaks less on the molecular level.., but both are penetrated by water, as water 'is' the universal solvent. I reckon water introduced to any epoxied parts to metal over an extended period of time would not be good. "

Epoxy is a common industrial marine primer and top coat for sealing out water, water based chemicals and organic (hydrophopic, water hating ) compounds.

Water is only a good solvent for hydrophilic compounds (hydrogen bonding, water loving...), it sucks at dissolving hydrophobic compounds like Cosmoline, waxes, etc, only a strong organic (non hydrogen bonding, hydrophobic) solvent like toluene (and many others that have no hydrogen bonding ability) will dissolve them. Then there are the bi-polar (LMA), compounds called surfactants that swing both ways :scared: that are common 1% additives in dish soap that allow one to emulsify non polar (toluene) and polar (water), also known as water loving and water hating (Hydrophilic and hydrophobic), compounds. Salt, table salt, the scourge of steel cars, is polar.

In my case the rain water was pretty much pure distilled rain water, no salt :party:, but if it had been sea water (tidal surge from the storm), it would have done serious damage already I think, in days to a week.

Best wishes Ecomike: About some glues; Epoxy hardener, and resin is superior to polyester hardener, and resin. Both are used in boat hull fabrications. Epoxy is best because it leaks less on the molecular level.., but both are penetrated by water, as water 'is' the universal solvent. I reckon water introduced to any epoxied parts to metal over an extended period of time would not be good. (automatic transmissions are new to me).

On this issue I side with Green XJ Joe on his two points, and lawagoneer for his suggestions.

Ecomike
October 21st, 2017, 10:24
I would try flushing and then tearing down to see if worth rebuilding. Sounds like it was already due for some work. I lived in New Orleans for 20+ years and got flooding a few times. We would drain, flush, change the filter and run. Never any problems. Water in the fluid is easy to spot as it turns Pepto Bismol pink. I'd give it a try you really have nothing to lose.

Thanks!!! That is encouraging. I should be able to save some good $ value just salvaging the E-solenoids, and maybe the TCs. Save the casing, gears, shafts, and toss the bearings, and wear parts.

A friend of mines shop went under water here in Jersey a few years back -- he said as soon as the water subsided everything that got submerged was then dropped in a light oil "diesel fuel" and left there

that stopped corrosion immediately -- he was then able to take his time and clean everything properly -- Took quite awhile but he was able to save almost everything

Not saying thats a smart move for a transmission, but your expensive shop tools went under -- they need something to displace the water fast -- air doesn't get everything

WD40 = water displacement 40

If it where my stuff, every tool submerged would get a coat of WD40 -- yes its gonna be messy -- but you will save your stuff

I am no fan of WD40, I prefer LPS-1 (but its almost impossible to find anymore), and others that do not dry and leave wax behind on the parts. I was referring earlier to my electric tools and parts like starters that got soaked. Non of my non power tools got wet.:cheers: Compressed Air and running them got the water out.

But I love the ultra low cost diesel fuel suggestion, no real fire hazard, way cheaper than TransFluid, will not mix/dissolve with the water, and will displace it, and it is great storage fluid for steel for sure!!! And should not be a problem in trace quantities in a running transmission later.

Thanks, that is one great suggestion!!!

Now all I need is a work table, stand or ???? for holding them up like an engine stand? Or a large plastic tank and 3-5 gallons of diesel fuel.:cheers:

Green Mesa XJ
October 21st, 2017, 14:18
Having lived through countless hurricanes I wouldnít be too sure about the pure rain water. Iíve seen grass and other plants die after a storm because saltwater was whipped up in to the mix, but we are also closer to the coast I donít know what others experienced further in land.
In your case with the rain sitting overhead for days the pure water may be correct after all.

The problem may be how long the water was sitting inside the transmission, if corrosion already started you could be chasing faults forever. Usually at the JY we would core out flood damaged transmissions, just too damn sensitive. Not sure what the core buyers did with them.
Engines, axels, transfer case might be salvageable and could be sold locally or for rebuild.

Electronics soaking in water can be the major headache.

if it were salt water it would need to have the harness and electronics replaced. Even then it will like to come back to bite you. A good friend of mine bought truck that was lightly flooded in salt water, some idiot High school grad whose daddy got them a new truck for their mediocre academic endeavors took his new truck to the breach to show off then couldnít figure out how to engage 4 wheel drive as the tide came. The truck only sat long enough for the tide to go in and out and was never deep enough to float it, but it was like the wires had some sort of capillary action.
My buddy liked the idea of buying a current year truck for next to no money then fixing it, Rebuilt the engine and transmission twice and replaced just everything electrical in the ten years he had the truck, still had odd issue come up randomly until the day he sold it. But thatís salt water for you, Iíve seen fresh water flood cars do much better.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Heavyopp
October 21st, 2017, 18:37
I was referring earlier to my electric tools and parts like starters that got soaked. Non of my non power tools got wet.:cheers: Compressed Air and running them got the water out.



I'm pretty sure all the power tools went right in the diesel fuel immediately -- electronics and all -- I know it wasn't a clean water submersion -- I guess he figured they're already ruined, diesel can only help

Whatever he did he saved most everything

LessThanJoe
October 22nd, 2017, 19:48
Hmm, I not aware of any cured glue made by man that is water soluble and not dissolved by transmission fluid.

Trashed how? What exactly did you find inside? Was it operated while flooded before taking it apart?

In my case it was all clean rain water on my shop floor, rising flood water, no dirt or mud.



It's not so much that it dissolves the glue but the friction lining absorbs the water, which makes them expand and separate from the metal bands. The glue is not made to hold them in this manner. Also, it would be very naive to think there is no such thing as a water soluble glue. Compounds are made for every specific purpose.

Trashed inside as in the valve body had already started to rust, there was gummy pink sludge in every nook and cranny that I could see. Have you opened up the case yet? I mean... I'm betting that as soon as you open it you'll understand what I mean.

It was not run after it was flooded. The vehicle was towed.

That "clean" water that rose up from the floor was not as clean as you think. It found every speck or dirt, dust, dead bug, sawdust, etc that it could find on its rise off the floor. Even if you poured bottled water into the transmission, its effects would be just as bad.

For the price of a common AW4 at any scrap yard, this really isn't worth the hassle. You'll dump more money on ATF to flush it out than you would picking up a new one.

Alaskan89XJ
October 23rd, 2017, 02:45
Ecomike; I highly respect the knowledge base you have as a; "materials science-chemical engineer", but remain, in defense.., unconvinced as per epoxies, and their bonding properties within, not necessarily between epoxy, and another material, such as aluminum, but within the glue it's self. I attempted a layman short handed offering that epoxy is not the end-be-all as per a water proof material, as it is not.

I really don't think that your transmission part with epoxy holding it together with aluminum, or whatever, is totally compromised from maintaining adherence, but I tend to also side with those that have had bad results from any kind of water mix within their transmissions, for whatever time periods. None of these detriments are something statistically known by me, either in the lab, or the garage, or from back yard shady tree mechanics such as many of us.

My usual thinking revolves around epoxy, and wood. However when shown that other members here have had some experiences with automatic transmission bands/epoxy/metal having a "deterioration" failure rate.., of some sort, I too hesitate thinking all is good, including the additional problem of aluminum corrosion, blah, blah, but rather agree that a complete tear-down might show you which way to proceed, or to perhaps just replace with a known clean well functioning tranny.

My take is based only on empirical results of using epoxy in a water environment, i.e., real world applications of said. Too.., I agree with all others that have the opinions that only negative results are the result of submerging your questionable part(s) in water solutions; salty, fresh, contaminated, etc., that all remind me as to the various consequences of et al, either in the short, or long term.

My layman research into epoxy is only determined by my specific inquiries into applying polyester resin, or epoxy resin to plywood. Either can be shown to allow water from fresh water, or seawater to 'leak' through into a plywood boat hull. Epoxy is a superior glue, but still does not provide a leak-proof ply-boat hull. Not from any impact, (which hastens leaks due to shattering through the epoxy/glass, or poly/glass layers), but from a more mechanical micro-infiltration that exists between the molecular chains within either glues. Water under pressure, such as the displacement of the hull in water exerts, will find it's way through either poly, or epoxy glues.

For example as per ply-boat hulls; Merely 'painting' only a simple one layer of a clear mixed coat of epoxy onto the skin of a blue water live-aboard cruising ply-boat hull is doable, (not talking a canoe here), but not smart, i.e., less strength without glass.., and if said is to stay in the water, i.e., not trailered to dry out then water infiltration will be a major problem. "Dry Out" is of concern here. For strength epoxy is applied to hull, and then when tacky, layers of glass, i.e., woven/roving, mat, and tape, are laid up, and then saturated with more epoxy, again glass, and again epoxy, etc., until such layered build up is a satisfactory thickness for end use. The addition of a 'gel-coat', possibly over other preceding layered barrier coatings, and too.., other additional layered barrier coatings all together attempt to impede water infiltration through either type glues. Someday there might be another superior type glue that will be truely waterproof.., but I've seen none, know of none, nor has anyone around the marine community around my parts. So.., we are always looking for the next best secondary barrier coat over epoxy needed to prevent water from seeping through that initial epoxy barrier coat. Wax seems to be the best old school barrier coat over either poly, or epoxy coats. (also cheaper than four hundred dollar per gallon super-duper stuff on the market today).

In our local fishing industry, hulls made of plywood often have an inch, or two thickness of glass, and poly-resin. (lighter hulls of plastic/foam cores=less thickness). I consider thin poly-glue/glass layers to be inferior as water easily passes through over a shorter time period, and rots the wood substrate below, and separation results. Yes an inch, or two provides much strength, but part of that reasoning of such uber thickness is to keep the water out on a longer time-line, i.e., providing a longer longevity of the craft's usefulness, (even if in those places/areas where the poly/glass separates from the plywood, read existing as the wood remains as only a rotted "hull-form" at this point). This problem of water infiltration is such so that hard working fishing boats using poly glue are best dry-docked for better than 3/4 of a year in order to 'dry-out' the boat hulls. (way less time for epoxy sailboats). Most likely even less time in Texas as for here in Alaska these mega $ boat hulls with glass saturated with water end up freezing for many months which mechanically further destroy the bonds of the glue, and the glass, thusly mechanically allowing for more fissures to result, and thusly more future water infiltration to be more easily resultant unless pre-fishing season repairs/coatings are applied prior to launch, like another gel coat. Unlike the poly boats, epoxied Sailboats are often just waxed before launch.

Epoxy on the other hand is a superior glue but still fails the water infiltration test over a longer time than poly's shorter time period. The very best protection I've ever found of keeping water out from infiltrating epoxy is best done by waxing the epoxied hull with hard floor wax. Surfers do too, but for another reason, lol). Wax will fill in those micro-fissures that exist in epoxy glue, (and poly). Without that final layered barrier of wax.., water of any type will thusly infiltrate through the epoxy, through the glass, and finally the 'wet' wood allows mold, and other bugs to live, and rot out the boat form, (even though epoxy will not separate from the wood, unlike poly).

Remember this too.., marine grade plywoods, (although not as primo as in time past), are just layers of veneer glued together with epoxy. If epoxy was water proof, then water would not penetrate through a layer of wood, epoxy, wood, epoxy, and so-forth. It does, and that empirical result, in costly repairs evidence, seems to offer a different result from that which is established in a lab, or black-board somewhere determining the differences of a product whether hydrophopic, or to a lessor aspect of this discussion; hydrophilic compounds.

Although I was correct in saying that water is a universal solvent, it is correctly pointed out by you that this universal solvent is not applicable to the detriment of epoxy, nor applicable, perhaps, to the issue at hand, i.e., wondering if the metal/glue/plastic/nylon/bands, etc., are problematic with the introduction of water into your transmission causing separation of said parts. My major point, again as a layman's understanding, is that water, a solvent never-the-less, will get mechanically through epoxy, and not for reasons of whether epoxy is attractive to water, or not. It does not matter, i.e., water will travel through epoxy. I'd like to see images from an Electron Micro-Scope showing such.., but that's a near impossible device for me to stand in line for, i.e., costly, and due to subsequent time I have not, and the required scholarly White Papers leading to such use, etc.

My hope is that you will follow through with your possible tear-down-inspections/replacements, etc., so as we might find out what your real world experiences are with that flooded transmission. However, I somehow feel a flush might just be adequate, but others here have pointed out more skeptical opinions that cause me to be somewhat on the fence regards this issue of yours, (and others, whether from salt, or fresh water, and other in-solution contaminates, etc).

I hope this clarification of mine goes some way in my wonderment of; the big IF your tranny epoxied part will be compromised, or not.
Best wishes on your flooded project.

Ecomike
October 23rd, 2017, 08:15
Water proof epoxy:

http://www.waterproofingsealers.com/epoxy-waterproof-sealer.html

Ecomike
October 23rd, 2017, 08:36
It's not so much that it dissolves the glue but the friction lining absorbs the water, which makes them expand and separate from the metal bands. The glue is not made to hold them in this manner.

GOT IT THANKS

Also, it would be very naive to think there is no such thing as a water soluble glue. Compounds are made for every specific purpose.

I never said there was not a water soluble glue, Elmers is water soluble, What I said or implied was no credible manufacturer would use a glue that after curing, could re-dissolve in water, when it was to be submerged in Transmission fluid. Transmission fluid has additives that would dissolve it just like water would. Most quality water soluble glues do not re-dissolve in water after they have cured.

Trashed inside as in the valve body had already started to rust, there was gummy pink sludge in every nook and cranny that I could see. Have you opened up the case yet? I mean... I'm betting that as soon as you open it you'll understand what I mean.

It was not run after it was flooded. The vehicle was towed.

If they did not remove the drive shafts, etc, the transmission may parts may have been turning internally and stirring up and mixing the water and T-fluid. Mine was sitting still on a shop floor.

That "clean" water that rose up from the floor was not as clean as you think. It found every speck or dirt, dust, dead bug, sawdust, etc that it could find on its rise off the floor. Even if you poured bottled water into the transmission, its effects would be just as bad.

I found trapped bodies of the water in containers after the flood, it was very clean in this case.

For the price of a common AW4 at any scrap yard, this really isn't worth the hassle. You'll dump more money on ATF to flush it out than you would picking up a new one.

Mine are Renix Era, a 2WD that was working, and a 4x4 1987 , that are very hard to find now days. They are not the same as the newest ones.

Ecomike
October 23rd, 2017, 09:15
Doing some googling, here is a quote "Water causes de-lamination of clutch plates and bands."

Starting to think the issue is not dissolving of glue (While there are glues that can be redissolved in water, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue , I find it hard to believe they can be used in Auto Transmission fluids), but absorption of water by the clutch plates (a cellulose paper like material??? that can swell and absorb water like a sponge) and thus mechanically damages "De-lamination" of the fiber friction plates sounds like the issue to me.

Any way, it looks like if those plates got wet long enough to swell, a complete rebuild is indeed needed.

I am going to find a dip stick and check them today, then drain /pull the bottom pans later. They may have drained themselves and only been under water for 2-3 hours since the side tube connections are not plugged, thus meaning only an inch or so of water may be in the bottom pan?

Not sure what I will do with the TCs. I will save the electric solenoids!!!, and some hard parts, maybe ebay some parts? May tear one down just for fun.

Ecomike
October 23rd, 2017, 16:26
This pretty much settles the debate IMHO!!!! Well written, and makes perfect sense.....

http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/Portals/Raybestos/Resources/file/Raybestos-watertrans.pdf

So the clutch material acts like a sponge, soaks up water, that then rusts the steel the clutch wear material it is attached to, rust builds up and de-laminates (Pushes, lifts) the friction material off of the steel backing plate.

Also if any water soaks into the clutch material plates it turns to steam when the Tranny gets up to temp and explodes the disk material as the water turns to steam according to raybestos. NICE!!!:firedevil

Our AW4 TCs have these clutch wear plates inside them on the AW4s also :( so they are likely toast as well, if water got in them. The plates in the TC are not user serviceable, the ones in the Tranny are.

Thanks for the lively debate and feed back from every one. Now I know what to do so I don't waste any time or supplies.

Be sure to read the warning on page 4!!! Eye opener for all of us. Now I know the real reason some folks report fluid dumping out the vent on trannys!!!

old_man
October 23rd, 2017, 16:37
Renix era AW4s go for $200 or less around here. A 2wd might even be less. I would do a swap and never look back. It wouldn't be that much to ship one.

Green Mesa XJ
October 23rd, 2017, 16:53
I've seen the Renix era AW4 be fairly cheap as well. Don't know if this will help you any

In Huston (hoping the junk yards weren't flooded too badly) .
Apache Auto Parts shows two 2wd 4.0 automatic transmissions, 1989 they have a price of $175 the other 1990 does not have a price listed online.

For Less Used Auto Parts shows two 4.0 2wd transmission as well

Abco Auto Parts USA-TX(Hearne) shows 4wd 4.0 autonomic transmission

These are on Car-Parts . com and should be proper junk yards that pull the part and load it into your vehicle.

four_shot
October 23rd, 2017, 18:28
My opinion, the hard parts are fine. Go through and replace the wear parts on both. While you've got them apart, inspect the rest of the parts and decide if you can salvage or not. Tear down is free, and you'd be doing it anyway.

Alaskan89XJ
October 23rd, 2017, 20:16
Ecomike; Thanks for the link.., but I considered it a soap box sales tripe for home owners, i.e., painting with it for one's furniture.., NOT for ocean going boats. I do appreciate the fact that that company offers mixtures, (recipes) appropriate for many other applications. Their so-called "Seal Once Marine" coating is more for a canoe in a pond.., not in the real world where one's life is dependent on any coating that can be minimally maintained, and actually work.

Anyone serious in obtaining real fresh epoxy would avoid any far-flung middle man, or company due to the fact that liquid epoxy, and hardeners have only a storage half-life around 2.5 years, plus, or minus depending on one's geographical location, and/or storage techniques, blah, blah. "West System"-epoxies, for example, ships to one facility in the Pacific North West where anyone can obtain it, i.e., a regional pipeline dispensing out to wholesale, retail purposes. Not sure where System Three epoxies have regional outlets. Often people sell epoxy for cheap, but I doubt they are fresh.

My long winded explanations as per the poly, and epoxy glues allowing water seepage through them still stands. They, again, are not waterproof. Close, but no cigar. For the hobby folks, ok. Sort of like diver's watches.., some are water proof, but only to certain depths, i.e., 100 meters, 300 meters, and so on between sea level downwards. Some watches are only water-resistant, and may are not at all, blah, blah. However take that 300 meter water proof watch down to 301 meters.., lol, all bets are off as the seal will fail. Yes this is comparing apples to oranges, but they have one thing in common, i.e., a fail point.


My Quote--> "...However when shown that other members here have had some experiences with automatic transmission bands/epoxy/metal having a "deterioration" failure rate.., of some sort..."

The above quote goes a long way to entertain the causal thoughts found by other members recalling the deterioration of layered parts failing once water intrudes said.., of this topic.

Like marine plywood finally rotting away through either epoxy, and to a higher faster degree by poly glues, (the latter of which separation is the result), the awareness you have specifically shared, (and others have hit upon), is that some non epoxy parts will expand, and the epoxy will no longer be functional in it's combination with those other dis-similar parts, i.e., the intended integrity fails.

Really enjoy digging into a subject, and appreciate your hours of research. I am glad that this site is around so that we might better maintain our XJ's.

90xj06
October 24th, 2017, 06:58
how far was the water up on the jeep? personally i would try getting all the fluid out and seeing what happens. its worth a shot.

Ecomike
October 24th, 2017, 08:54
I had two spares on the shop floor. One a working pull 2WD ready to use in a rig that later got totaled. The other 4x4 1987, had lost forward 1 st gear, and was loosing reverse, needed new o'ring...seals. 18" deep in the shop. Over 17" fell in four hours. We do not yet know if the guts of the wrecked 2wd 89 was damaged by the drive shaft when she got rear ended. The rear end and tail gate was shoved up to the back seat in the accident late last year.

how far was the water up on the jeep? personally i would try getting all the fluid out and seeing what happens. its worth a shot.