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Faz95XJ
September 28th, 2017, 11:15
Looking at upgrading to a long arm set up for the front of my 95. Have found bolt-on (no welding) options from Rusty's and Iron Rock. Was wondering if anyone has experience with those (or any others) and what your thoughts are. This is a trail only rig that gets wheeled maybe 4 times a year, so I'm not looking to go crazy.

Kittrell
September 28th, 2017, 11:51
I see you found the cheap ones. TnT, BDS, Full Traction, CavFab, Clayton to name a few. Neither Rusty's nor IRO are typically the preferred options.

RCP Phx
September 28th, 2017, 12:17
^^^^^^^ x10

jeeptec
September 28th, 2017, 12:30
I'm running core 4x4 long arm non high clearance kit. It was all bolt on. It use a nice rubber bushing on the long arms. Urathane on the upper short arms. I did have to modify my exhaust going over the crossmember but my is a 2000 with California emissions. The only thing I don't like about the system is the adjuster lock nuts on the long arms the nuts will come loose with hard use or flexing. Then you have an annoying rattle.


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Jeepguy91
September 28th, 2017, 12:53
If i had to do it, i would go with the Clayton's kit. One thing i suggest is to make sure the center crossmember is removable just in case you need to service the trans or transfer case.

Faz95XJ
September 28th, 2017, 13:16
The Clayton kit requires welding IIRC. Was trying to avoid welding. I'll check out some of the other manufacturers.

JonnyCat63
September 28th, 2017, 13:47
I have an IRO long arm on my 97. The kit is fine, flexes like crazy, and is very well built. A lot of people don't like the caster adjustment setup, but I haven't had any problems with it. It's a good kit for the money, and IRO is a good company to deal with. I did weld on the outer brackets to my frame stiffiners, I didn't trust just the 6 bolts to hold everything on. I've bought a lot of parts from them over the years.

On my 95, I used the TNT long arm kit. Very well built. That is a good set up and I would recommend that kit for anyone. Really beefy.

I am currently amassing parts for my 99 2 door build. I'm going to try a 3 link kit on that one. Leaning towards Clayton, but I'm looking at a couple of others.

Welding is not that big of a deal, don't let that be a deal breaker. A shop or someone you know with welding skills can burn it in in no time. Just takes a little bit of prep.

Hope that helps.

ehall
September 28th, 2017, 14:32
Full Traction is pretty much bolt-on (need to cut off the stock LCA buckets but no welding)

Synergy has some mid-arm buckets that bolt onto the frame, still my favorite

TRCM
September 28th, 2017, 15:46
Looking at upgrading to a long arm set up for the front of my 95. Have found bolt-on (no welding) options from Rusty's and Iron Rock. Was wondering if anyone has experience with those (or any others) and what your thoughts are. This is a trail only rig that gets wheeled maybe 4 times a year, so I'm not looking to go crazy.

How much lift do you want ?

If you don't wheel any more than that, I'd go drop brackets and be done with it.

I put them on mine as a precursor to long arms, but now, not so sure long arms are gonna be worth it if I stay @ 6" or less lift.

Faz95XJ
September 29th, 2017, 05:46
How much lift do you want ?



If you don't wheel any more than that, I'd go drop brackets and be done with it.



I put them on mine as a precursor to long arms, but now, not so sure long arms are gonna be worth it if I stay @ 6" or less lift.



Am running drop brackets already and hate them. They get caught on everything... but my lift has sagged somewhat as well.


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VAhasnoWAVES
September 29th, 2017, 06:30
The Clayton kit requires welding IIRC. Was trying to avoid welding. I'll check out some of the other manufacturers.

its less than 20" of weld. bribe a buddy with a 6 pack and have him burn it on.

RCP Phx
September 29th, 2017, 06:48
The best "bang for your buck" in my mind would be the TNT kit!

burntkat
September 29th, 2017, 08:43
You couldn't pay me to put Rusty's anything on my truck. I've seen his welds fail in street use- once on a friend's XJ while backing out of the driveway.

Clayton are what I run, and what I'll likely run on the wife's ZJ here soon.

burntkat
September 29th, 2017, 08:45
I'm running core 4x4 long arm non high clearance kit. It was all bolt on. It use a nice rubber bushing on the long arms. Urathane on the upper short arms. I did have to modify my exhaust going over the crossmember but my is a 2000 with California emissions. The only thing I don't like about the system is the adjuster lock nuts on the long arms the nuts will come loose with hard use or flexing. Then you have an annoying rattle.


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Can confirm that Core4X4 are nice products as well. They're in the running for the wife's ZJ. I presently have a full set of their adjustable length arms on the ZJ and I'm very pleased.

burntkat
September 29th, 2017, 08:46
its less than 20" of weld. bribe a buddy with a 6 pack and have him burn it on.

Regarding the Clayton's kit. Yes, this... but make sure your buddy is a good weldor. Certification isn't required, but more than just posession of a welder is.

WyoCherokee
September 29th, 2017, 09:54
I am running the Cav-Fab 3 link, and love it.

josh9mile
September 29th, 2017, 11:32
The Clayton kit requires welding IIRC. Was trying to avoid welding. I'll check out some of the other manufacturers. long arm cross members no matter who makes should be welded on no matter what. If you don't you are a fool

burntkat
September 29th, 2017, 12:11
long arm cross members no matter who makes should be welded on no matter what. If you don't you are a fool

Going to have to disagree with this. *Properly engineered*, a bolt-on solution will work. But by no means do you want to just bolt it in place of the tranny crossmember and call it done.

kcox506
September 29th, 2017, 12:39
long arm cross members no matter who makes should be welded on no matter what. If you don't you are a fool

I would have to step in and agree. The forces involved warrant a properly attached bracket for the arms. Unless you want to get at least 4 bolts a side to grab the frame, which would mean drilling holes and welding threaded bosses if done correctly. Regardless, the cost to benefit ratio means that welding a frame bracket for a 3 or 4 link setup and have removable center section really isn't all that much in comparison.

From a radius arm perspective, the Rubicon Express crossmember works well. Not only does it grab three frame bolts, but there's a pinch seam nutstrip as well. Then the boat sides. In that Capacity, a bolt on operation would be justified. I'm in the business of doing it right and the most correct fashion. I've played the "its good enough" game and would much rather go all in.

But thats just me.

burntkat
September 29th, 2017, 12:44
I'm with you, but from an engineering standpoint, a bolt-on affair can be made to work, and work well.

Welding? Always better, *if it's done right*.

XjNick95
September 29th, 2017, 12:55
Check out the B Lee's kit. several friends of mine run it with zero issues, its some what similar to the Cav-fab kits. it uses 3 bolts per side to connect to the frame. apparently there is a nutsert in the frame that needs to be drilled out and tapped and its ready to rock and roll. I have my kit setting in my basement, and its heavy as all get out!

https://bleesoffroad.com/collections/suspension/products/3-link-system

mcguyver_xj
September 29th, 2017, 13:14
Check out the B Lee's kit. several friends of mine run it with zero issues, its some what similar to the Cav-fab kits. it uses 3 bolts per side to connect to the frame. apparently there is a nutsert in the frame that needs to be drilled out and tapped and its ready to rock and roll. I have my kit setting in my basement, and its heavy as all get out!

https://bleesoffroad.com/collections/suspension/products/3-link-system

yeah.um..no
every other long arm kit on the market uses more than just 3 bolts for a reason

XjNick95
September 29th, 2017, 13:25
it uses 6 bolts total, 3 per side. I would have thought there would be issues with it my self. But everyone I know that has this kit has abused them way more than I ever will. One guy borderline uses his like a rock bouncer, ive never seen a front end come off the ground more than this guy.. I honestly don't know how he hasn't bent his front end yet to be honest.

freerider15
September 29th, 2017, 13:29
Check out the B Lee's kit. several friends of mine run it with zero issues, its some what similar to the Cav-fab kits. it uses 3 bolts per side to connect to the frame. apparently there is a nutsert in the frame that needs to be drilled out and tapped and its ready to rock and roll. I have my kit setting in my basement, and its heavy as all get out!

https://bleesoffroad.com/collections/suspension/products/3-link-system

For not much more money, there are FAR better options on the market.

TRCM
September 29th, 2017, 17:29
Am running drop brackets already and hate them. They get caught on everything... but my lift has sagged somewhat as well.


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Ok, then you wheel far worse than me.....


And from what I've seen, Most long arm brackets hang down almost as much, just not so close to the tires.

Kittrell
September 29th, 2017, 21:00
And from what I've seen, Most long arm brackets hang down almost as much....

I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Unless by "almost as much" you meant twice as much.

http://www.twisted-halo.com/digicam/xj/xjcadropbrackets01.jpg

http://www.tremek.com/gallery/data/500/medium/DSC_0627_1.jpg

TNT

http://events.sequoia4x4.com/d/12557-2/IMG_0008_001_001.JPG

CavFab

http://photodonn.novarata.net/i.php?/upload/2017/09/29/20170929195942-e0edb4d3-xl.jpg

Kittrell
September 29th, 2017, 21:02
I would go with CavFab or Clayton for the removable crossmember. CavFab is true 3/4 Link, Clayton is Radius and true 3/4 Link.

Bent
September 29th, 2017, 22:05
Wheel placement issue?

TRCM
September 29th, 2017, 23:07
I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you there. Unless by "almost as much" you meant twice as much.



Go ahead an disagree...won't hurt my feelings. :laugh: That's why all of our jeeps are different...............

I said most, cuz the ones I've looked at EXCEPT for TNT still hang below the frame 3-4". Even the cav fab one you posted, and clayton as well, hang down the diameter of the joint + ~ 1"...which means 3-4".

Their saving grace is the arm itself, which lets the vehicle slide over the obstacle, whereas the drop bracket has a much better chance of catching & hanging up.

I haven't actually measured, but I'd say my cad brackets hang below the factory mount points 4-5", but are closer to the tires than the brackets you mention. Personally, I'd rather have something hang down close to the tires than mid frame as it is easier to use the tire to keep the obstacle from sticking with good tire placement. Can't always do that, but most times you can.

That's why IF I go long arms, it will most likely be TNT, along with their matching coil spring conversion for the rear, or the Synergy 4 link front and the IRO 4 link rear.


No biggie, I just mentioned it as unless you wheel in places where they hang up all the time, it's not worth the money or the quirks that can sometimes show with long arms/radius arms.

Simply suggesting a compromise to save some money and still have a nice ride.



.

The Luke
September 30th, 2017, 07:39
Check out the B Lee's kit. several friends of mine run it with zero issues, its some what similar to the Cav-fab kits. it uses 3 bolts per side to connect to the frame. apparently there is a nutsert in the frame that needs to be drilled out and tapped and its ready to rock and roll. I have my kit setting in my basement, and its heavy as all get out!

https://bleesoffroad.com/collections/suspension/products/3-link-system



Iíve heard from several people that his kits unload like crazy on hills and handle like crap. The only people I know that have ran them have swapped them out within 6mo to a year of running them.

MagicNelson
September 30th, 2017, 10:14
I've been happy with my Clayton radius setup. Been running it for 3 years with no issues. It's easy to convert to a true 3-link in the future as well if you ever wanted to.

Faz95XJ
September 30th, 2017, 10:36
Regarding the Clayton's kit. Yes, this... but make sure your buddy is a good weldor. Certification isn't required, but more than just posession of a welder is.



Most of the people that I know only have a welder. They don't have much experience. That's why am trying to avoid welding. But I'm still a ways away from doing this, So the hunt continues for a welder and an experienced welder.


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Serious Offroad
September 30th, 2017, 11:24
Check your PM's

kcox506
September 30th, 2017, 17:55
Well lets go there. Ironman4x4fab has a 3 and 4 link system that is bolt on AND weld on. Not only bolt on. Has to be both. Anti-dive numbers adjustable from 75% to 120%.

http://i.imgur.com/L6a88RGh.jpg (https://imgur.com/L6a88RG)

http://i.imgur.com/IferhUyh.jpg (https://imgur.com/IferhUy)

http://i.imgur.com/mdlrq5Uh.jpg (https://imgur.com/mdlrq5U)

TRCM
September 30th, 2017, 20:00
Well lets go there. Ironman4x4fab has a 3 and 4 link system that is bolt on AND weld on. Not only bolt on. Has to be both. Anti-dive numbers adjustable from 75% to 120%.

http://i.imgur.com/L6a88RGh.jpg (https://imgur.com/L6a88RG)

http://i.imgur.com/IferhUyh.jpg (https://imgur.com/IferhUy)

http://i.imgur.com/mdlrq5Uh.jpg (https://imgur.com/mdlrq5U)





Hmmmm...now that looks interesting..................not seeing it on their site tho........



.

Kittrell
September 30th, 2017, 20:02
That's a lot of hardware hanging on just the factory nutserts.

Heavyopp
September 30th, 2017, 22:00
Hmmmm...now that looks interesting..................not seeing it on their site tho........



.


I saw this in the vendors section a few days ago -- there's a video but not much info

Hey Kcox506 - Marketing guy for Ironman fab -- I for one would love to hear more about this -- It certainly looks like it has potential -- How about some real details?

Might not be the right place here but...

kcox506
October 1st, 2017, 09:09
That's a lot of hardware hanging on just the factory nutserts.

As I had said, its weld and bolt on only. You're most certainly correct.

I saw this in the vendors section a few days ago -- there's a video but not much info

Hey Kcox506 - Marketing guy for Ironman fab -- I for one would love to hear more about this -- It certainly looks like it has potential -- How about some real details?

Might not be the right place here but...

40" lowers, 36" uppers.

All four links in place with less than 30 degrees of link intersect

Adjustable Separation and adjustable link lengths (allows you to dial in your Ant-dive)

Barnes Enduro Joints at the frame, Clevite at the axle (any joint combo possible really)

Lower links are .281 wall DOM and Upper Links are 1.25" solid 1045 CRS.

Rear 4 link already in the works that is an extension of the front. Give it a few weeks.

Heavyopp
October 1st, 2017, 19:55
So what is the minimum amount of lift needed to run a long arm/4 link

I assume the drivers side upper axle mount is the determining factor -- the cast mount in the diff housing

Are really good bump stops a must?

burntkat
October 2nd, 2017, 07:22
Most of the people that I know only have a welder. They don't have much experience. That's why am trying to avoid welding. But I'm still a ways away from doing this, So the hunt continues for a welder and an experienced welder.


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Time to learn to weld. Gain a skill and it's more or less a license to print money, or at least fix your own junk around the house. I've used welding in everything from vehicles to furniture.

XjNick95
October 2nd, 2017, 07:24
Lots of YouTube how tos, a lot of scrap metal and start burning away!

Faz95XJ
October 5th, 2017, 15:10
Gonna muddy the water here a bit ...

Given the limited amount of wheeling i actually get to do, and seeing that CavFab is running some sales right now, would it be reasonable to remove the RE drop brackets i am currently running with fixed LCAs and go with CavFab Stage 2 adjustable LCAs?

in4aride
October 5th, 2017, 15:31
Check out the B Lee's kit. several friends of mine run it with zero issues, its some what similar to the Cav-fab kits. it uses 3 bolts per side to connect to the frame. apparently there is a nutsert in the frame that needs to be drilled out and tapped and its ready to rock and roll. I have my kit setting in my basement, and its heavy as all get out!

https://bleesoffroad.com/collections/suspension/products/3-link-system

:roflmao:
Cavfab seems like a good set up.
Or make your own

RCP Phx
October 5th, 2017, 16:42
Gonna muddy the water here a bit ...

Given the limited amount of wheeling i actually get to do, and seeing that CavFab is running some sales right now, would it be reasonable to remove the RE drop brackets i am currently running with fixed LCAs and go with CavFab Stage 2 adjustable LCAs?

Nope, but for just a few dollars more you could bet the TNT set-up!

Faz95XJ
October 5th, 2017, 16:53
Nope, but for just a few dollars more you could bet the TNT set-up!



TNT long arm or adjustable LCAs?


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TRCM
October 5th, 2017, 18:41
Nope, but for just a few dollars more you could bet the TNT set-up!

I'd say a little more than a little more.

Green XJ Jeep
October 5th, 2017, 19:19
I'd say a little more than a little more.

TnT is 250 for upper and lower CavFab is 180 for just the lowers.
For just lowers pretty sure rwkhaussupply can come close for currie arms.

Tcq192
October 5th, 2017, 20:14
Where did RK fall into this hierarchy when they were still producing lifts for XJís?


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TRCM
October 6th, 2017, 16:21
TnT is 250 for upper and lower CavFab is 180 for just the lowers.
For just lowers pretty sure rwkhaussupply can come close for currie arms.

I got it now....I thought he meant the whole cavfab setup (crossmember, arms, etc) not just the lower arms.

I was gonna say tell me where you got the complete TNT setup for 250 (again, crossmember, arms, etc)...I'll buy 5 of them right now and resell 4 of them to fund a 4 link rear.

Green XJ Jeep
October 6th, 2017, 19:00
I got it now....I thought he meant the whole cavfab setup (crossmember, arms, etc) not just the lower arms.

I was gonna say tell me where you got the complete TNT setup for 250 (again, crossmember, arms, etc)...I'll buy 5 of them right now and resell 4 of them to fund a 4 link rear.

Right there with you. both my xj's would be rocking long arms if that was the case

burntkat
October 7th, 2017, 15:18
And I make a third on that last comment!

in4aride
October 14th, 2017, 03:09
As a note on cavfab, from some people who have had recent orders, some still out standing, customer service blows apparently. Not personal experience. It was just brought up and thought that was important to share.