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faraiwe
August 5th, 2017, 09:02
OHAI.

Been a minute since I last posted here.

I imagine I am not the first idi... USER... to wonder about this. Stabilizer/Sway bar QD. Was there ever a *perfect* solution?

The mount fins, on stock axle, for the factory linkage are deeply uninspiring. If you don't want to simply whack them off and weld some decent mounts on, you're left with few options. Most of the available aftermarket QD kits have really inconvenient solutions to holding the whole thing in place. Most seem to rely on threaded links, which are often stripped (am going by first hand of hearing people whine about them). If you get "solid" links, you have to deal with nuts and washers, which must be wrenched away, every time you want to hit the trail. Some other kits depend on flimsy, dubious cotter pins.

After lift, I chucked the sway bar away, after all, COME ON... =) But, then, my XJ started to display the dreaded wobble, at speeds over 60mph, on uneven asphalt. Sorta annoying. Bushings were new, shocks, coils, etc. Suppose you can't get away from physics/harmonics of a bouncy front suspension based on a solid, live axle trying to catch up with other side going up and down. Meh.

Some time later, slapped the sway bar back in, with factory mounts plus decent MOOG bushings, and installed the QD links that came with the lift kit (3.5" Rubicon Express; no, not the RE1130 links, mine are the older design, "solid"). However, the whole wrench the nylon retaining nut every time you want to bounce a bit is quite annoying.

http://preview.ibb.co/eREBHF/20170703_190814.jpg (http://ibb.co/giPp4v)

The bolts are a 1/2" thick, 19mm hex, rated (8.9), with a nylon hex nut to match. Not really handy to un-do, on the fly. What to do, what to do...

Dawned on me that any 1/2"(ish) diameter bolt, rated to sufficient tensile strength would do. I know, I am a GENIUS! :laugh: Pondering that the stresses on the sway bar, on street or road aren't really that stupid high, and mostly taken by the bushings, I wondered if something with a quick lock system would not do, and if I could improvise, or find. As it turns out, I was fixing the trailer hitch wiring attachment point...

...and vol.
http://preview.ibb.co/gDQFBa/20170707_185514.jpg (http://ibb.co/bCVhra)

For those wondering, Reese #70067, at about $5, each. The tow hitch pin takes a lot more stress than the sway bar link bolts usually undergo, on a more consistent basis, too. Wary, I decided to test it, got me a couple of the same hitch pins I use, slipped them in; thick, rated washers for good measure. Road tested it on a relatively empty road nearby. Not a problem, whatsoever, on several runs. The bushings keep tension on the flip lock, and the flip lock moves along with the washer, as the bushing flexes, but under tension, so it didn't even move (90-degree force product equals zero). Yes, the pin turns, but remained on and without issues, every time I take it for a spin, and inspect afterwards. I'm still calling it under "homologation", though. :yap:

Impressions, critique, suggestions, and other rants? How have others solved the same issue, if you even had it, or consider it such?

bad_idea
August 5th, 2017, 09:16
I LOVE my JKS Quicker Disconnects. https://www.amazon.com/JKS-2000-Replacement-Swaybar-Disconnect/dp/B005TTZ64M/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1501946093&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=jus+quicker+disconnect+xj

Well designed and easy to use. Have held up well so far.

LJRockstar
August 5th, 2017, 17:42
The best swaybar setup I ever ran was Off Road Only's SwayLoc. I had it on my LJ but they have come up with an adapter to fit it to an XJ. They are not cheap by any means, but there isn't anything better as far as ease of use. They have a version you can control from inside the cab, but it requires OBA. The manual one has a lever on the passenger side arm that connects and disconnects. Doesn't matter if you're on level ground or not. I had the earlier version that was only one spring rate. it was either on or off. The new ones have a stiff rate for on road and a really soft rate for off road.

cal
August 5th, 2017, 18:09
http://preview.ibb.co/gDQFBa/20170707_185514.jpg


I would *NOT* trust this going down the road.

no way, no how, not ever.

TRCM
August 5th, 2017, 18:32
I would *NOT* trust this going down the road.

no way, no how, not ever.

agreed 1000%


just cuz it fits, don't mean it's right


What's so hard about taking a min or two to unbolt the sway bar so you have a safe connection when on the highway ???

cal
August 5th, 2017, 19:43
Or buy disconnects that are designed to be disconnect and maintain rigid mounting mounts.

the best disconnects available are what like $150? (jks).

faraiwe
August 5th, 2017, 23:44
agreed 1000%


just cuz it fits, don't mean it's right


What's so hard about taking a min or two to unbolt the sway bar so you have a safe connection when on the highway ???


Ok. Why? No, seriously, curious. Just because never seen or done before, or...

Remember, no qualifiers makeany statement a I-think-ism, presented without any basis for it beyond "I think". Which lands it solid under scientific principle that you can promptly dismiss anything presented without proof or substantiation, in the same manner. So sorry, but "huh huh, no likee" is not an adult's answer.

The material of the pin is rated at similar, or rather *better* than the bolt used in the QD kit it replaces. A tow hitch pin is meant to take stresses, tensile strength wise - yes I checked with manufacturer - that supersede anything thrown at the sway bar link bolt. It's the EXACT diameter of the bolt it replaces; it is the EXACT length necessary. Any stresses over what the bushings can take would have same effect on this AND the QD bolt replaced.

The vehicle has been going on the road, more than just a few times. It's been stable at sharp corners taken multiple times, it's been stable at legal speed limits. it's been exposed to hard braking, sudden acceleration Every time I come back, it's inspected. Sits there, looking good.

What is the problem in spending minutes wrenching before I hit any trail? Exactly that =) Plus, folks who seem scandalized at this don't realize that wrenching a nylon lock nut several times DOES tend to degrade it. Unless they believe materials physics don't apply, because they have some pious superstition regarding it.

Waiting for [I]any actual substantiation, prefer one beyond sycophantic agreement, or obnoxious, repeated question marks and atrocious grammar, or the abject lack of imagination, etc.

Lemme know. ::tips hat::

cal
August 6th, 2017, 00:57
The pin is not designed to be used in single sheer through a single 3/16 chunk of plate. If you had built that in some form of double sheer I'd have said "hey thats a neat idea."

You may have things crunched together hard enough to have the facade of stability from it now, but that will not sustain.

Bent
August 6th, 2017, 10:59
JKS are overrated and over priced. To make life easy with ANY disconnects carry a 12" mini Quick Grip bar clamp in your rig. Attach the short side first and then use the clamp to pull the sway bar down towards the axle on the other side. Connect and then release the clamp.

I use this method on me XJ's Gen 1 RE and it's a snap. It works just as well with the adjustable RC discos on my MJ.

As far as that hitch pin goes, it is not your best idea. A couple grade 8 nuts and a modified grade 8 bolt would be better.

TRCM
August 6th, 2017, 12:50
Ok. Why? No, seriously, curious. Just because never seen or done before, or...

Remember, no qualifiers makeany statement a I-think-ism, presented without any basis for it beyond "I think". Which lands it solid under scientific principle that you can promptly dismiss anything presented without proof or substantiation, in the same manner. So sorry, but "huh huh, no likee" is not an adult's answer.

The material of the pin is rated at similar, or rather *better* than the bolt used in the QD kit it replaces. A tow hitch pin is meant to take stresses, tensile strength wise - yes I checked with manufacturer - that supersede anything thrown at the sway bar link bolt. It's the EXACT diameter of the bolt it replaces; it is the EXACT length necessary. Any stresses over what the bushings can take would have same effect on this AND the QD bolt replaced.

The vehicle has been going on the road, more than just a few times. It's been stable at sharp corners taken multiple times, it's been stable at legal speed limits. it's been exposed to hard braking, sudden acceleration Every time I come back, it's inspected. Sits there, looking good.

What is the problem in spending minutes wrenching before I hit any trail? Exactly that =) Plus, folks who seem scandalized at this don't realize that wrenching a nylon lock nut several times DOES tend to degrade it. Unless they believe materials physics don't apply, because they have some pious superstition regarding it.

Waiting for [I]any actual substantiation, prefer one beyond sycophantic agreement, or obnoxious, repeated question marks and atrocious grammar, or the abject lack of imagination, etc.

Lemme know. ::tips hat::

If the manufacturer told you that hitch pin is designed to take tensile stress, he is an idiot. There is almost no tensile stress in a hitch pin when used as they are designed, if there was, the end would be threaded not flip & clip

It is designed for shear stress. IE,. the weight of the trailer trying to shear it in the hitch receiver as you take off and stop.

Tensile stress would mean somehow the trailer was trying to stretch it side to side.....explain that one to me please.

Tensile means tension...like puling or stretching

Shear is a cutting action, like scissors cutting across the surface, and that action is what the hitch pin has to resist


WHY ??

it is unsafe... (sorry to have hurt your feelings)

1) over time, the stuff you have cobbled together will wear and loosen up, letting the clip at the end move and come undone

2) there is no way that is solid...too much leverage on the fixed point by the end that can move around, and as the bushings get old, it will only get worse

3) the hitch pin has been weakened by drilling a hole in it for the stop pin to prevent it from sliding thru too far

4) in the pic, the pin is not centered in the bushing, which will allow play that will wear things out even sooner

5) in the at rest position, the pin is already deflected up which means it is not properly 'designed' or 'made'

6) hitch pins are designed to be used in double shear, not single

using big words doesn't make you any smarter or safer........

You are right, taking off and putting on a nyloc nut will degrade the nylon over time...but mine still requires a wrench to remove, so I'd say the nyloc lock part is still working just fine by providing enough rotating resistance that a wrench is required to remove it.



so, there's some reasons...but it doesn't matter what my reasons are....like I said, I would not run it as it is unsafe. For the last 15 yrs, I have been carrying a wrench in my jeep, and it takes me all of 2 min to disconnect the factory sway bar on both sides when I want to wheel. I even put a metal loop under air intake box to clip the bar to to keep it out of harms way.



.

trippled
August 6th, 2017, 13:42
Back when I had a sway bar, I had those links and used tine pins. They worked fine for years until I just up and ditched the sway bar. I used them when the Jeep was stock as a set of cheap discos and again when I lifted it.

https://www.google.com/search?biw=360&bih=263&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=CUWHWZzPFajT0gK-xoKICg&q=tine+pin&oq=tine+pin&gs_l=mobile-gws-img.3..0i30k1j0i8i30k1j0i24k1l2j0i10i24k1.3845600. 3849203.0.3850436.14.11.2.0.0.0.390.2102.0j4j2j3.9 .0....0...1.1j4.64.mobile-gws-img..3.10.2067.0..0j0i67k1.npE4lS_5QHM#imgrc=gF91w vejX81c8M

rockclimber
August 6th, 2017, 15:02
I don't think that the hitch pin will catastrophically fail. but its far from ideal.

Boostwerks.com
August 6th, 2017, 15:21
The pin needs to be in tension with the mount. In other words, it needs to be bolted on, not simply passed through held on with the pin. There is reason why all disconnects will look like this.

Nimrod
August 6th, 2017, 17:01
To make life easy with ANY disconnects carry a 12" mini Quick Grip bar clamp in your rig. Attach the short side first and then use the clamp to pull the sway bar down towards the axle on the other side. Connect and then release the clamp.

Damn, that's clever. A bar clamp will be added to my pile of trail gear, until I swap out my JKS quick discos for a Currie Antirock sway bar some day.

cal
August 6th, 2017, 17:36
The pin needs to be in tension with the mount. In other words, it needs to be bolted on, not simply passed through held on with the pin. There is reason why all disconnects will look like this.

This is what i was trying to say.

burntkat
August 7th, 2017, 14:11
OHAI.

...and vol.
http://preview.ibb.co/gDQFBa/20170707_185514.jpg (http://ibb.co/bCVhra)


Not this again....

Been there, done that. Just wait...

I tried very much the same on my 90 XJ back in 2003 when I first bought it. It WILL fail, and if you're lucky it won't be terribly exciting when it does. Mine failed on the way to work- while not catastrophic, there was a very sudden, severe change in handling when it let go.

Just, no. This is by no means new or terribly clever. Buy a ratchet strap and use it to line up your swaybar after you wheel. Take 2 minutes out of your life to loosen two bolts.

JohnX
August 8th, 2017, 18:38
I don't think that the hitch pin will catastrophically fail. but its far from ideal.

Agreed.


Also, this is a far superior setup to some widely available aftermarket quick discos. By no means perfect, but safer than some you can buy.

lazyxj
August 9th, 2017, 22:21
I LOVE my JKS Quicker Disconnects. https://www.amazon.com/JKS-2000-Replacement-Swaybar-Disconnect/dp/B005TTZ64M/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1501946093&sr=1-2-fkmr0&keywords=jus+quicker+disconnect+xj
Well designed and easy to use. Have held up well so far.

My 2001's JKS QDs have about 170,000 mile on them and still are tight. They get lubed every couple thousand miles, along with everything else.
They are not cheap, I don't want anything that is 'cheap'.
It's stout enough to have busted both sway bar mounts off, the results of running 11" travel shocks on the street. Both mounts have been significantly reinforced since.

Einulfr
August 10th, 2017, 09:56
The best swaybar setup I ever ran was Off Road Only's SwayLoc. I had it on my LJ but they have come up with an adapter to fit it to an XJ. They are not cheap by any means, but there isn't anything better as far as ease of use. They have a version you can control from inside the cab, but it requires OBA. The manual one has a lever on the passenger side arm that connects and disconnects. Doesn't matter if you're on level ground or not. I had the earlier version that was only one spring rate. it was either on or off. The new ones have a stiff rate for on road and a really soft rate for off road.

Looks a bit like the Currie Anti-Rock, only a lot more expensive. I just installed the Anti-Rock recently and it's so nice to be able to just articulate on a whim without having to worry about disconnecting anything. It felt a little loose on the road at first until I messed around with the mounting points and link lengths; now it feels just like the factory sway bar. Doesn't seem to inhibit flex much at all.

LJRockstar
August 10th, 2017, 10:26
Looks a bit like the Currie Anti-Rock, only a lot more expensive. I just installed the Anti-Rock recently and it's so nice to be able to just articulate on a whim without having to worry about disconnecting anything. It felt a little loose on the road at first until I messed around with the mounting points and link lengths; now it feels just like the factory sway bar. Doesn't seem to inhibit flex much at all.

Yea it's pretty similar to Currie. What sold me on the earlier one was the ability to Disco completely and have travel limited only by the bumps and shocks. Then at the end of the day just flip that lever and be nice and stable on the road home. I can't speak for the two stage one, there must be some benefit but I don't see it. I prefer the all or nothing way the original worked. The disconnect mechanism is pretty brilliant though.